So which one is better, Deep Space 9 or Babylon 5?
So not going there. I love them both. Let's leave it there.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Imagine an epsiode where it was Sisko telling the old ones get the hell out, or Garibaldi dealing with Quark. Ivanova talking with Dukat, or Weyoun dealing with Sheridan....
The awesome would explode the multiverse, with Bester leading Section 31.
Ancient Griffon insult
That one is so stupid, he lost a Rock/Paper/Scissors game to a Pony.
Re: DS9 v Voyager
I give my vote: I lean toward Voyager.
But, this is my standard disclaimer:
All the series had some outstanding episodes. Likewise all the series had some stinkers.
For me, DS9 kind of turned me off from the beginning, with the whole Sisko mad at Picard for being a Borg and killing his wife thing. Sisko was annoying in the beginning.
Of course the early episodes are the roughest for any of the series; they usually get better as they go along. Janeway was annoying as well. (It was the hair bun!)
But of all 5 series, DS9 is the one I watched the least. All those stories about Bajoran religion etc. just didn't interest me. Same with Chief O'Brien's family troubles.
That being said, things got better toward the end with more Garak, and the whole Dominion war. And I loved the smarmy Weyoun! So I don't totally hate on DS9. But the ending was meh.
While Voyager had the same early years roughness, overall it was back to being explorers and the larger story arc of will they make it back home. The ending was, shall we say, spectacular!
Imagine an epsiode where it was Sisko telling the old ones get the hell out, or Garibaldi dealing with Quark. Ivanova talking with Dukat, or Weyoun dealing with Sheridan....
The awesome would explode the multiverse, with Bester leading Section 31.
DS9 was better. When Voyager pulled a fail, it pulled it big time. Just...spectacular.
1) The whole 'arc' of Q was horrific, obliterating a character whose joyful capriciousness and irreverence was contrasted with his utterly unstoppable power and brutal 'lessons' or agendas. Yes, this is the guy who got stabbed in the hand with a fork, and appeared on the bridge with a mariachi band when he got his powers back....he's also the guy who let eighteen people die to introduce the Federation to the Borg, placed the Enterprise crew into 'games' they had no idea were not lethal, and was the agent of a Continuum that was intending to straight up kill Amanda ("There is a possibility we may not have to terminate the girl") as they already had done with her parents.
This guy ended up being some total clod trying to bone the special snowflake Janeway, so he could have a baby that fixes the ills of a now ludicrously humanised Continuum that previously had appeared only as a shadow asking about the progress on Amanda. The girl they were intending to kill.
2) The Borg got turned into jobbers for Species 8472. This is the most unforgivable offence for me. The Borg were a creative, interestingly implemented, and absolutely iconic villain. They get into any 'greatest sci-fi villains' list, and rightly so. The pants wetting terror of a single Borg cube in First Contact was justified, and you felt it. They listen to the comm channel of the fleet getting pretty much instantly mashed in, and then we cut to a brilliantly directed intro of the cube itself. You can feel the atmosphere as this thing passes 'overhead' alongside an ominous theme tune. Go watch it. In fact, here's a link for you:
One Borg cube. One. It destroys entire ships with a single sweep. By the time Voyager was done, they were being blown up in job lots so someone else could be scary and powerful, while Voyager herself was attacking Tactical Cubes, supposedly even more powerful, single handed, and not being ****ing flattened instantly like entire fleets of starships do.
The 'year of hell' treatment should have been Voyager passing through Borg space. It should have been a whole series. It wasn't, they copped out in a two parter, and then had to cop out even harder by getting Kes to fling them past the annoying mess of 'writing a decent storyline regarding getting through Borg space'.
It baffles the mind even further that Voyager NEVER used any of the assets from First Contact. The best Borg hail ever made by Jeff Coopwood is never used. The 'Borg theme' of the cube is never used. Why?
Voyager is why we end up in the sad state we are in STO. The Borg are generic losers like any other to be blown up in hordes by our mighty player epeens. That's because of Voyager. I was genuinely scared of how hard a Borg cube was going to plunder my butt the first time I dared click the Red Alert button in sector space. I watched it explode in literally seconds.
3) Individual episodes like....well you know the one. You know.
DS9 never hit its failure out the ballpark like Voyager did. When DS9 sucked, it just sucked. When Voyager sucked, it crushed entire swathes of the best of those that came before it.
The "Q plug-in" episodes for both Voyager and DS9 were obvious desperate attempts to improve ratings. At least they didn't try to put Q into Enterprise!
Agree they overused the Borg in Voyager, but then again it did make sense they'd encounter them in the Delta Quadrant. Part of their success against them was innovative tactics, but most of it was because the Borg Queen "left them alone".
Getting rid of Kes was OK by me as she was a pretty empty character, so I think they did the right thing by trading up to Jeri Ryan.
My daughter is asking me what is the best of these shows...
ENT was supposed to be about the creation of the Federation and space exploration. It mostly was, but it had writing issues. It had some great moments, like T'Pol's drug addiction, and the Zombie Vulcans. Not the best Trek, but it didn't suck.
TOS was campy 60's TRIBBLE. And it was awesome. All stereotypes aside (like Kirk always getting laid), it was far more intelligent and groundbreaking than anything on TV at the time. Star Trek might have also made the sci-fi genre mainstream, as it was still emerging at the time.
TNG was slow, boring, and FAR less interesting than TOS. TNG didn't have conflicts between main characters. It was a wonderful show filled with great characters, but it is hard to watch now. It just drones on and on while I'm waiting for something to happen.
DS9 was dark, honest, and everything Gene Roddenberry didn't want Trek to be. It had elements of religion, politics, and cultural conflicts between main characters. DS9 was probably the most violent Trek series, given that over 800,000 Cardassians died in the Dominion War. Oh yeah, it also depicted war as both a horrible thing and a great thing, it all depends on your perspective. I think of DS9 as the anti-trek.
VOY straight up sucked. I mean, come on. Coffee didn't cure Picard's assimilation. And the ship would magically be completely fixed by the end of the episode (besides Year of Hell). Somehow Janeway had an infinite number of shuttles. It had a few good points, like when they established that the replicators had to have matter packs, and the concept of the Maquis cooperating with the ship's crew out of necessity not choice. It is really more like Babylon 5 (and such) action scifis than real star trek. If you understand technobabble, this is the show for you.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Comments
You are mistaken.
DS9 is still better.
Voyager
So not going there. I love them both. Let's leave it there.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The awesome would explode the multiverse, with Bester leading Section 31.
That one is so stupid, he lost a Rock/Paper/Scissors game to a Pony.
I give my vote: I lean toward Voyager.
But, this is my standard disclaimer:
All the series had some outstanding episodes. Likewise all the series had some stinkers.
For me, DS9 kind of turned me off from the beginning, with the whole Sisko mad at Picard for being a Borg and killing his wife thing. Sisko was annoying in the beginning.
Of course the early episodes are the roughest for any of the series; they usually get better as they go along. Janeway was annoying as well. (It was the hair bun!)
But of all 5 series, DS9 is the one I watched the least. All those stories about Bajoran religion etc. just didn't interest me. Same with Chief O'Brien's family troubles.
That being said, things got better toward the end with more Garak, and the whole Dominion war. And I loved the smarmy Weyoun! So I don't totally hate on DS9. But the ending was meh.
While Voyager had the same early years roughness, overall it was back to being explorers and the larger story arc of will they make it back home. The ending was, shall we say, spectacular!
This, 100%.
And that is the correct response. There are far too many similarities between the two shows that it would ultimately end up as a futile endeavour.
1) The whole 'arc' of Q was horrific, obliterating a character whose joyful capriciousness and irreverence was contrasted with his utterly unstoppable power and brutal 'lessons' or agendas. Yes, this is the guy who got stabbed in the hand with a fork, and appeared on the bridge with a mariachi band when he got his powers back....he's also the guy who let eighteen people die to introduce the Federation to the Borg, placed the Enterprise crew into 'games' they had no idea were not lethal, and was the agent of a Continuum that was intending to straight up kill Amanda ("There is a possibility we may not have to terminate the girl") as they already had done with her parents.
This guy ended up being some total clod trying to bone the special snowflake Janeway, so he could have a baby that fixes the ills of a now ludicrously humanised Continuum that previously had appeared only as a shadow asking about the progress on Amanda. The girl they were intending to kill.
2) The Borg got turned into jobbers for Species 8472. This is the most unforgivable offence for me. The Borg were a creative, interestingly implemented, and absolutely iconic villain. They get into any 'greatest sci-fi villains' list, and rightly so. The pants wetting terror of a single Borg cube in First Contact was justified, and you felt it. They listen to the comm channel of the fleet getting pretty much instantly mashed in, and then we cut to a brilliantly directed intro of the cube itself. You can feel the atmosphere as this thing passes 'overhead' alongside an ominous theme tune. Go watch it. In fact, here's a link for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPzJSBHG4pI
One Borg cube. One. It destroys entire ships with a single sweep. By the time Voyager was done, they were being blown up in job lots so someone else could be scary and powerful, while Voyager herself was attacking Tactical Cubes, supposedly even more powerful, single handed, and not being ****ing flattened instantly like entire fleets of starships do.
The 'year of hell' treatment should have been Voyager passing through Borg space. It should have been a whole series. It wasn't, they copped out in a two parter, and then had to cop out even harder by getting Kes to fling them past the annoying mess of 'writing a decent storyline regarding getting through Borg space'.
It baffles the mind even further that Voyager NEVER used any of the assets from First Contact. The best Borg hail ever made by Jeff Coopwood is never used. The 'Borg theme' of the cube is never used. Why?
Voyager is why we end up in the sad state we are in STO. The Borg are generic losers like any other to be blown up in hordes by our mighty player epeens. That's because of Voyager. I was genuinely scared of how hard a Borg cube was going to plunder my butt the first time I dared click the Red Alert button in sector space. I watched it explode in literally seconds.
3) Individual episodes like....well you know the one. You know.
DS9 never hit its failure out the ballpark like Voyager did. When DS9 sucked, it just sucked. When Voyager sucked, it crushed entire swathes of the best of those that came before it.
Agree they overused the Borg in Voyager, but then again it did make sense they'd encounter them in the Delta Quadrant. Part of their success against them was innovative tactics, but most of it was because the Borg Queen "left them alone".
Getting rid of Kes was OK by me as she was a pretty empty character, so I think they did the right thing by trading up to Jeri Ryan.
ENT was supposed to be about the creation of the Federation and space exploration. It mostly was, but it had writing issues. It had some great moments, like T'Pol's drug addiction, and the Zombie Vulcans. Not the best Trek, but it didn't suck.
TOS was campy 60's TRIBBLE. And it was awesome. All stereotypes aside (like Kirk always getting laid), it was far more intelligent and groundbreaking than anything on TV at the time. Star Trek might have also made the sci-fi genre mainstream, as it was still emerging at the time.
TNG was slow, boring, and FAR less interesting than TOS. TNG didn't have conflicts between main characters. It was a wonderful show filled with great characters, but it is hard to watch now. It just drones on and on while I'm waiting for something to happen.
DS9 was dark, honest, and everything Gene Roddenberry didn't want Trek to be. It had elements of religion, politics, and cultural conflicts between main characters. DS9 was probably the most violent Trek series, given that over 800,000 Cardassians died in the Dominion War. Oh yeah, it also depicted war as both a horrible thing and a great thing, it all depends on your perspective. I think of DS9 as the anti-trek.
VOY straight up sucked. I mean, come on. Coffee didn't cure Picard's assimilation. And the ship would magically be completely fixed by the end of the episode (besides Year of Hell). Somehow Janeway had an infinite number of shuttles. It had a few good points, like when they established that the replicators had to have matter packs, and the concept of the Maquis cooperating with the ship's crew out of necessity not choice. It is really more like Babylon 5 (and such) action scifis than real star trek. If you understand technobabble, this is the show for you.