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protogoth
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Look, guys. The Praetorian Guard Armor thread is not a place to debate what I have to say about the imperial raptor, but rather, a place to discuss a possible ROMULAN alternative to the MACO and KHG costumes/sets.
So I'll spell it out here:
The two logos in my signature are the FLEET EMBLEMS OF MY FLEETS. I have requested the inclusion of Romulan Republic Raptors (and/or the old RSE logo seen on and inside the ships from "The Enterprise Incident") to (and not the removal of Imperial Romulan Raptors from) the available imagery for fleet emblems. That request has not been granted. If I want something for the fleet emblems of my fleets which indicates Romulanity, the only option is the one I have now. That was in the game before LoR.
As for the Praetorian Guard Armor, that would be something new, added post-LoR. Cryptic/PWE has not made many concessions to pro-RSE players heretofore with new content, and therefore it is reasonable to suppose that they are not going to grant many concessions in the future.
The title Praetor is in fact used by Republic players; it is the accolade and title earned by killing 1000 Tal'Shiar personnel in ground combat. I earned it myself quite some time ago.
I'm not going to again argue or debate with you about numbers of this or that side; I provided strong evidence once before, and most of you chose to ignore it or beg the question or engage in blatant denialism. If you're interested, search this forum for the thread titled "Call to my Romulans brethren" and count the number of people on each side of that issue in that thread.
You don't have to like it. I'm not particularly happy with it myself (although I'm much more satisfied playing as part of the New Republic than I would be playing as part of the RSE of TNG and later series). But there you go.
Now,feel free to blather on, in this thread about what I've said here in this thread and elsewhere in this forum as much as you like, but stop trying to hijack the other threads and turn them into a fight with me about my views, when that's not what they're about (I note that Heckle has yet to offer any opinion on the topic of the Praetorian Guard Armor thread, but instead is determined to try to pick a fight with me there). I will almost certainly ignore most if not all of what Heckle has to say in this or any other thread. I will probably ignore much if not all of what Jeckle has to say in this or any other thread. Some of the rest of you who support the RSE are much less likely to be ignored, because you are capable of civility and at least making some sense, while largely avoiding fallacy and the like.
Pro-Republic views are also more than welcome in this thread.
So I'll spell it out here:
The two logos in my signature are the FLEET EMBLEMS OF MY FLEETS. I have requested the inclusion of Romulan Republic Raptors (and/or the old RSE logo seen on and inside the ships from "The Enterprise Incident") to (and not the removal of Imperial Romulan Raptors from) the available imagery for fleet emblems. That request has not been granted. If I want something for the fleet emblems of my fleets which indicates Romulanity, the only option is the one I have now. That was in the game before LoR.
As for the Praetorian Guard Armor, that would be something new, added post-LoR. Cryptic/PWE has not made many concessions to pro-RSE players heretofore with new content, and therefore it is reasonable to suppose that they are not going to grant many concessions in the future.
The title Praetor is in fact used by Republic players; it is the accolade and title earned by killing 1000 Tal'Shiar personnel in ground combat. I earned it myself quite some time ago.
I'm not going to again argue or debate with you about numbers of this or that side; I provided strong evidence once before, and most of you chose to ignore it or beg the question or engage in blatant denialism. If you're interested, search this forum for the thread titled "Call to my Romulans brethren" and count the number of people on each side of that issue in that thread.
You don't have to like it. I'm not particularly happy with it myself (although I'm much more satisfied playing as part of the New Republic than I would be playing as part of the RSE of TNG and later series). But there you go.
Now,feel free to blather on, in this thread about what I've said here in this thread and elsewhere in this forum as much as you like, but stop trying to hijack the other threads and turn them into a fight with me about my views, when that's not what they're about (I note that Heckle has yet to offer any opinion on the topic of the Praetorian Guard Armor thread, but instead is determined to try to pick a fight with me there). I will almost certainly ignore most if not all of what Heckle has to say in this or any other thread. I will probably ignore much if not all of what Jeckle has to say in this or any other thread. Some of the rest of you who support the RSE are much less likely to be ignored, because you are capable of civility and at least making some sense, while largely avoiding fallacy and the like.
Pro-Republic views are also more than welcome in this thread.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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The raptor of the Empire from TNG on is pretty damned perfect, its wide and short which would look fantastic across the chest area of male and female armor. We all supposedly 'march beneath the raptor's wings' Imp and Pub versions both are supposed to represent the Romulan and Reman people, thats why it holds the homeworlds. The pub version is also trying to evoke the phoenix symbolism of rising from the ashes. The TNG one is more about projecting a sense of strength and fierceness. We still have people running around Mol'Rihan in TNG and Tal Shiar uniforms working for the Republic, hell we have an officer on the flagship wearing her Star Navy uniform. Its part of Romulan culture and history, no reason to wipe it out because in the end days of the empire it became too corrupted to save. If anything it would be a FANTASTIC homage to those guardsmen and women who served faithfully for so long and the ideals behind that order.
Accolades aside, and really that is a HORRIBLE excuse to try and use to say 'the republic uses it', there are no STO-canon references to a Praetor or Praetorian Guard. We've seen senator and proconsul, and little else.
I think "Romulism" is the preferred term. There's no need for name calling.
I disagree. Citing the Mirror Universe items and insignias the player Fedside can wear as support for my position, I think Imperial imagery would be perfectly reasonable as an aesthetic option.
I think to do this, the best way is to use Republic iconography on the main armor look. The "Adapted" version, however, I would rebrand as "Imperial Praetorian" and would have mostly the same parts with with Imperial bits on it in place of Republic bits. So, say, the Praetorian chest armor part might have a Power Rangers-esque circular seal on the chest with the Republic symbol on it, but the Imperial version has a triangular piece in its place with the old Imperial symbol.
I'm really compelled to sketch out examples but I lack a scanner and I don't think an MS Paint mockup would even remotely do it justice (not to mention would take me longer) so here's a crappy drawing that I took a crappy photo of to show you what I mean. I based it loosely on the TOS helmet and a Senate guard uniform seen briefly in the background in Star Trek: Nemesis.
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Mirror Universe uniforms and insigniae are C-store purchases, and do not come with MACO or Adapted MACO sets. In fact, I'm not even sure that Mirror Universe logos can be put on either of those sets. There is nothing comparable for KHG or Adapted KHG sets.
Whether or not the Adapted versions of MACO and KHG are superior to the "normal" versions is perhaps subject to debate, but they seem to be intended to be so. Thus, your suggestion amount to asking for the "better" set to be decorated with the logo of an enemy of the Romulan and Reman people, an enemy of the Cryptic/PWE-sanctioned Romulan faction, and you believe this would be somehow acceptable to PWE/Cryptic or the majority of Romulan players ...
I'll go out on a limb and say both Praetor(absolutely sure) and (almost sure) praetorian guard have both been used in canon Star Trek references.
History
The title of praetor was present on the planet 892-IV as evidenced by the Praetorian Guards. (TOS: "Bread and Circuses")
The leader of the Romulan Star Empire was referred to as Praetor. (TOS: "Balance of Terror")
The Praetor presided over the Romulan Senate and the Continuing Committee. (Star Trek Nemesis)
One Praetor, Colius, was honored by having an award, the Praetor Colius Award, named after him. (DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight")
The Praetor's source of power has always been the Romulan fleet. In 2266, the Praetor sent his flagship across the Romulan Neutral Zone in an unprovoked attack on several border outposts. Decius, an officer aboard the Romulan vessel, sent the Praetor a message to update him on their mission. However this broke the communication silence the ship was running under and he was reduced in rank as punishment. (TOS: "Balance of Terror")
In 2374, Neral, a former Proconsul, became Praetor. (DS9: "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges")
Later, Hiren ascended to the position, which he held until 2379, when Shinzon, a Human raised as a Reman, had the entire Romulan Senate killed and assumed leadership of the Star Empire. However, he was killed the same year after his plan to annihilate Earth was uncovered. (Star Trek Nemesis)
please learn to read ALL of a statement... I said they had not been used in reference to the STO only Romulan Republic
But you're missing the key thing here.
Each set has armor visuals that unlock with it. The unlocks are tied to a specific set, yes, but not the visuals themselves. For example, you can put a Mirror Universe materials on a Prime Universe MVAE if you've unlocked the Mirror Patrol Escort. Similarly, you could be wearing an Imperial Praetorian set and, assuming you've unlocked the Praetorian Elite set too, use the Republic visuals. The Imperial visual unlock is just that - an unlock. Optional. You aren't forced to wear it.
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