As many on here have surmised, us "whales" tend to mingle mostly in our own circles.
The offerings in DR are simply not worth the money or time, and they are so blatantly money grabs that it offends.
I really could care less of the opinions of others how to spend my own money. I make enough that dropping $200 a month on this, $200 a month on SWTOR, and $200 a month on TSW doesn't even really show up. Whole Foods tears my wallet up way more than STO.
The problem is that the utiliity and value given is so much lower. It is not one incremental thing, it is a huge series of incremental buys. A 'gold ship' requires a level of cash to even make me pause.
Unless the model is adjusted, most whales will drop some cash, but I fear most will be like me and only focus on one character, and certainly not all the way to gold.
I have been previously dropping decent sums and never had reason to think about it before, but as you (and others) have implied, the big problem here is that previously players like me would buy zen to buy dilithium to get the latest Reputation thing (for example) or the latest ship, to get a shiny new weapon, console, or equipment that did something new and interesting. And this new thing would be bought as an addition to the other stuff which was all, "ready to go".
What DR does is downgrade everything we already own, so that the cost is not for something new and interesting, but to basically "fix" something we already own, so that it works "as before". We already know how our stuff "should" work, and DR merely represents "repair costs". Sorry but when my car needs to go to the mechanics to have something repaired, I don't consider that fun, new, or exciting.
Not only that, but it's not one thing, it's every thing. If it were my car, I'd be buying a new one. If DR were a car, it'd be referred to as either a "bomb", or a "lemon".
And added to that, previously I didn't have to think about anything I wanted to do. So I'd log in, chat a bit in a social zone, go off to do a Foundry, just go into a Borg Red Alert, maybe after go into a PvE like Breach or Colony, confident that everything would be okay. Now, I log in, hardly anyone outside ESB chatting, and think as it's quiet I'll do... let me think hard... because if I just click a button, this toon, may or may not be able to handle it.
Of course, the "Difficulty" level should have helped... but we all know how useful that is.
There's an expression, "Fractally wrong" where no matter which piece you look at, and no matter what level of detail, the thing is wrong. Maybe we can add to this, "Fractally broken"... :mad:
I have been previously dropping decent sums and never had reason to think about it before, but as you (and others) have implied, the big problem here is that previously players like me would buy zen to buy dilithium to get the latest Reputation thing (for example) or the latest ship, to get a shiny new weapon, console, or equipment that did something new and interesting. And this new thing would be bought as an addition to the other stuff which was all, "ready to go".
What DR does is downgrade everything we already own, so that the cost is not for something new and interesting, but to basically "fix" something we already own, so that it works "as before". We already know how our stuff "should" work, and DR merely represents "repair costs". Sorry but when my car needs to go to the mechanics to have something repaired, I don't consider that fun, new, or exciting.
Not only that, but it's not one thing, it's every thing. If it were my car, I'd be buying a new one. If DR were a car, it'd be referred to as either a "bomb", or a "lemon".
And added to that, previously I didn't have to think about anything I wanted to do. So I'd log in, chat a bit in a social zone, go off to do a Foundry, just go into a Borg Red Alert, maybe after go into a PvE like Breach or Colony, confident that everything would be okay. Now, I log in, hardly anyone outside ESB chatting, and think as it's quiet I'll do... let me think hard... because if I just click a button, this toon, may or may not be able to handle it.
Of course, the "Difficulty" level should have helped... but we all know how useful that is.
There's an expression, "Fractally wrong" where no matter which piece you look at, and no matter what level of detail, the thing is wrong. Maybe we can add to this, "Fractally broken"... :mad:
Basically my thoughts too.
I have never known ANY mmo release a expansion that had the effect of nerfing ones gear into such a state.
Yes expansions add better gear so that you can improve on what you got, but with the so called "difficulty increase" DR brought, not only has it made the new content harder (which i think would have been ok if it stopped there) to justify new gear, but it ramped up the difficulty in everything that was there PRE DR, and its this that makes ones gear feel useless now and completly nerfed.
Hence the , "im doing this to "fix" my gear".
Add to this the gutting of rewards ex EC, Dilithium etc
Add to this the monumental cost of upgrading gear
Not only are you making players feel like they had something taken away from them, your also taking away any and all motivation to continue by making the barriers of entry so huge.
Im not a whale, never have been, although i did buy zen occasionly to supplement my grinding, since DR, im on sabbatical. Not sure if i'll return.
ps
Hate the term "whale" isnt there a better term we can use?
I've been dying to try the new ships but will not be getting the delta pack until something changes. I would call myself a moderate spender, and have probably spent about 6-700$ in total since I started about a year ago. (That's more than I ever would have thought before I started, but it was fun). Now I just log on to run r&d dailies and run delta rep just incase anything changes for the future. I don't see a point in getting all those ships in the pack if I have to spend just as much, if not more, on upgrading gear. I'm willing to pay to have fun, but I have been very put off by what's been going on.
So dear devs, make the game less of a grind fest and I'll gladly pay the $125 for the pack, or keep it the same and I'll eventually grind for free through daily doffing and look for other entertainment to spend my money, and more importantly my time, on. Speak with your wallets folks, and convince your fleet mates and friends to do the same. If you're happy with the direction this game is going, then by all means form over your money... But it might get a little lonely down the road.
To be honest, another by-product of this new system is that I am less willing to grind for rep gear.
I won't lie and pretend that I've ignored the new Delta Rep gear - but grinding for said gear was VERY unrewarding, since you know the end product is a MkXII item. Not technically a problem in itself, but it does mean that, if you are so inclined, you wind up with yet ANOTHER item that requires upgrading.
This is one of the most dishonest trashy parts of the current game. All of the gear via rep is at best MK XII.. WTF? Even the new DR stuff? I mean WHO IS THE ****TARD MORON THAT DECIDED ON THIS?
I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP. Hell I dropped nearly $500 in September on the game. Not anymore or will I any time again soon. The timegates irk me something fierce and I endured to say the least but having to spend what took me nearly a year to save up in dilith as well as millions in EC and not get even one epic con - well that is too much even for me. I dont like the RNG element and gambling in general. It is bad enough I do it with the keys justifying as a sort of optional monthly subscription type of expense.
Simply put I shall not now nor ever buy dilith with real money from Zen so the avenue many have taken is simply one I will not follow. I will buy items and other such things but I will not buy currency especially to be gambled away on an RNG element.
Accordingly I'm suffering some serious cognitive dissidence with STO now. I hate F2P because it is not and anyone that thinks so is lying to themselves I would rather pay $100 or $200 a month or even more for a serious well developed MMO but maybe that makes me crazy I dont know.
Nonetheless do to my love for ST I have continued to support this title even after abandoning every other title I was a lifer and subscriber to once the title switched to F2P on principle.
Now I'm starting to regret my compromise and the thousands I've invested in this title over the years....
The new upgrade system and many of those damn timegates "features" need to go or get DRAMATICALLY reduced! At this point I'm focing myself to login and grind everyday. I dont know how much longer I can make myself do that since I really want to login and PLAY every day.
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Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
Can't upgrade anything because of a time gated system, that I took a break from, because it is the only way to preserve sanity. The loot drops are poor and not suitable to fund any exchange fueled crafting supplementation schemes, and after 500 Argala patrols I'm still going to be pretty much in my level 50 gear. I hope you're happy with your game design. I'm certainly not getting the groove going here. Why is the loot drops not suitable to supplement crafting, even after daily grinding in the hours, and why is the crafting on timers that makes a glacier seem like a record breaker at the marathon?
I haven't spent any money is over 2 years here, the game has been going in the wrong direction that long.. can they turn it around? No way. Just look at all the whales in this thread, shame on them for supporting the disgusting actions of cryptic.
I haven't spent any money because they game is a money grab, I'm against that. I make more than enough money to become a whale if I wanted, but its not intelligent or responsible.
Sad part is that for all the whales that just got harpooned, more will take their place.
The even sader part, when PWE took over, it was known their game model burned out games in 4-5 years, then the get put on life support. Judging by Stahl's jump ship and new project, this game is on the path to life support, the new missions are really poorly made, the quality of what we got is terrible, and no investment into game client has been made in a long time. So as the bugs pile to toppling levels, do you really think cryptic cares? They aren't here to make the game fun or enjoyable, because they've never tried to do that.
I haven't spent any money is over 2 years here, the game has been going in the wrong direction that long.. can they turn it around? No way. Just look at all the whales in this thread, shame on them for supporting the disgusting actions of cryptic.
I haven't spent any money because they game is a money grab, I'm against that. I make more than enough money to become a whale if I wanted, but its not intelligent or responsible.
Sad part is that for all the whales that just got harpooned, more will take their place.
The even sader part, when PWE took over, it was known their game model burned out games in 4-5 years, then the get put on life support. Judging by Stahl's jump ship and new project, this game is on the path to life support, the new missions are really poorly made, the quality of what we got is terrible, and no investment into game client has been made in a long time. So as the bugs pile to toppling levels, do you really think cryptic cares? They aren't here to make the game fun or enjoyable, because they've never tried to do that.
Nice analogy...where's moby **** when you need it. Cryptic is as blind as Captain Ahab and don't see the repercusion of the silent players who ALREADY left STO :mad:
Are they truly silent, or actively warning people on venues other than the forum not to join the game? Definitely a factor Cryptic should worry about. On average a dissatisfied customer tells a HUGE number of people about their experience and it takes at least 10 happy customers to at least break even with that. And that may be a generous figure, as when I learned that in school, so owl media was nowhere near the force that it is now.
In other words, especially with the outlay I suspect Cryptic had to make (lots of voice and likeness rights in addition to normal development costs), this could have a real, devastating impact on Cryptic's ability to recoup its investment if things do not change in a sustained manner for the better.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I can't decide which is most laughable, crafting or upgrading
On one hand crafting has the missing promised modifiers, but then upgrading costs millions of dil - per character
They also wanted crafting to be crafting; to deconstruct items for materials, so it was released entirely unfinished but upgrading kills modifers and there are items not working
You could probably build 11x t5 starbases for the dil cost of upgrading 2 rear weapons but then crafting time-gates are like 8 months.
Both are un-finished, copy-paste recycled content dil lottery sink timegates so it's really hard to decide
What happens if they have another expansion similar to LoR in a year, but adding a Cardassian faction?
After LoR, people made new characters, leveled them up, bought them stuff- in many cases a lot of nice stuff.
A fourth faction (or "faction") now, though? A new character is all the work it was before, then all that work doubled by 50-60 leveling, then all that work doubled *again* via the upgrade system, and after all that work you're still at an instant and huge disadvantage thanks to the specialization system. A disadvantage that can never be made up
Somehow I do not see long-term success in these systems.
What happens if they have another expansion similar to LoR in a year, but adding a Cardassian faction?
After LoR, people made new characters, leveled them up, bought them stuff- in many cases a lot of nice stuff.
A fourth faction (or "faction") now, though? A new character is all the work it was before, then all that work doubled by 50-60 leveling, then all that work doubled *again* via the upgrade system, and after all that work you're still at an instant and huge disadvantage thanks to the specialization system. A disadvantage that can never be made up
Somehow I do not see long-term success in these systems.
You bring up a good point. DR has pretty much killed alts (at least, for anything other than doffing). No one but the super-rich can afford to upgrade their alts the way they did their mains. Peeps are not going to be so keen any more rolling an entire new, fully decked out toon.
Yeah, sadly unless there are major adjustments I cannot see a workable new faction at this point.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Comments
I have been previously dropping decent sums and never had reason to think about it before, but as you (and others) have implied, the big problem here is that previously players like me would buy zen to buy dilithium to get the latest Reputation thing (for example) or the latest ship, to get a shiny new weapon, console, or equipment that did something new and interesting. And this new thing would be bought as an addition to the other stuff which was all, "ready to go".
What DR does is downgrade everything we already own, so that the cost is not for something new and interesting, but to basically "fix" something we already own, so that it works "as before". We already know how our stuff "should" work, and DR merely represents "repair costs". Sorry but when my car needs to go to the mechanics to have something repaired, I don't consider that fun, new, or exciting.
Not only that, but it's not one thing, it's every thing. If it were my car, I'd be buying a new one. If DR were a car, it'd be referred to as either a "bomb", or a "lemon".
And added to that, previously I didn't have to think about anything I wanted to do. So I'd log in, chat a bit in a social zone, go off to do a Foundry, just go into a Borg Red Alert, maybe after go into a PvE like Breach or Colony, confident that everything would be okay. Now, I log in, hardly anyone outside ESB chatting, and think as it's quiet I'll do... let me think hard... because if I just click a button, this toon, may or may not be able to handle it.
Of course, the "Difficulty" level should have helped... but we all know how useful that is.
There's an expression, "Fractally wrong" where no matter which piece you look at, and no matter what level of detail, the thing is wrong. Maybe we can add to this, "Fractally broken"... :mad:
Thankyou for the perfect signature.
Basically my thoughts too.
I have never known ANY mmo release a expansion that had the effect of nerfing ones gear into such a state.
Yes expansions add better gear so that you can improve on what you got, but with the so called "difficulty increase" DR brought, not only has it made the new content harder (which i think would have been ok if it stopped there) to justify new gear, but it ramped up the difficulty in everything that was there PRE DR, and its this that makes ones gear feel useless now and completly nerfed.
Hence the , "im doing this to "fix" my gear".
Add to this the gutting of rewards ex EC, Dilithium etc
Add to this the monumental cost of upgrading gear
Not only are you making players feel like they had something taken away from them, your also taking away any and all motivation to continue by making the barriers of entry so huge.
Im not a whale, never have been, although i did buy zen occasionly to supplement my grinding, since DR, im on sabbatical. Not sure if i'll return.
ps
Hate the term "whale" isnt there a better term we can use?
So dear devs, make the game less of a grind fest and I'll gladly pay the $125 for the pack, or keep it the same and I'll eventually grind for free through daily doffing and look for other entertainment to spend my money, and more importantly my time, on. Speak with your wallets folks, and convince your fleet mates and friends to do the same. If you're happy with the direction this game is going, then by all means form over your money... But it might get a little lonely down the road.
This is one of the most dishonest trashy parts of the current game. All of the gear via rep is at best MK XII.. WTF? Even the new DR stuff? I mean WHO IS THE ****TARD MORON THAT DECIDED ON THIS?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
Simply put I shall not now nor ever buy dilith with real money from Zen so the avenue many have taken is simply one I will not follow. I will buy items and other such things but I will not buy currency especially to be gambled away on an RNG element.
Accordingly I'm suffering some serious cognitive dissidence with STO now. I hate F2P because it is not and anyone that thinks so is lying to themselves I would rather pay $100 or $200 a month or even more for a serious well developed MMO but maybe that makes me crazy I dont know.
Nonetheless do to my love for ST I have continued to support this title even after abandoning every other title I was a lifer and subscriber to once the title switched to F2P on principle.
Now I'm starting to regret my compromise and the thousands I've invested in this title over the years....
The new upgrade system and many of those damn timegates "features" need to go or get DRAMATICALLY reduced! At this point I'm focing myself to login and grind everyday. I dont know how much longer I can make myself do that since I really want to login and PLAY every day.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Tell me again about the wonders of this game!
I haven't spent any money because they game is a money grab, I'm against that. I make more than enough money to become a whale if I wanted, but its not intelligent or responsible.
Sad part is that for all the whales that just got harpooned, more will take their place.
The even sader part, when PWE took over, it was known their game model burned out games in 4-5 years, then the get put on life support. Judging by Stahl's jump ship and new project, this game is on the path to life support, the new missions are really poorly made, the quality of what we got is terrible, and no investment into game client has been made in a long time. So as the bugs pile to toppling levels, do you really think cryptic cares? They aren't here to make the game fun or enjoyable, because they've never tried to do that.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Nice analogy...where's moby **** when you need it. Cryptic is as blind as Captain Ahab and don't see the repercusion of the silent players who ALREADY left STO :mad:
In other words, especially with the outlay I suspect Cryptic had to make (lots of voice and likeness rights in addition to normal development costs), this could have a real, devastating impact on Cryptic's ability to recoup its investment if things do not change in a sustained manner for the better.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
On one hand crafting has the missing promised modifiers, but then upgrading costs millions of dil - per character
They also wanted crafting to be crafting; to deconstruct items for materials, so it was released entirely unfinished but upgrading kills modifers and there are items not working
You could probably build 11x t5 starbases for the dil cost of upgrading 2 rear weapons but then crafting time-gates are like 8 months.
Both are un-finished, copy-paste recycled content dil lottery sink timegates so it's really hard to decide
After LoR, people made new characters, leveled them up, bought them stuff- in many cases a lot of nice stuff.
A fourth faction (or "faction") now, though? A new character is all the work it was before, then all that work doubled by 50-60 leveling, then all that work doubled *again* via the upgrade system, and after all that work you're still at an instant and huge disadvantage thanks to the specialization system. A disadvantage that can never be made up
Somehow I do not see long-term success in these systems.
You bring up a good point. DR has pretty much killed alts (at least, for anything other than doffing). No one but the super-rich can afford to upgrade their alts the way they did their mains. Peeps are not going to be so keen any more rolling an entire new, fully decked out toon.
Greed comes before a fall.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.