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Geko, the federation bias is circular logic.
miirik
Member Posts: 483 Arc User
It's not unknown that Geko has a clear bias for the federation, which I can understand, the majority of the userbase is fed, but here is something to think about.
You say people make feds most, well yeah, if you keep making primarily and mostly fed content (namely more ships, more customization options, more costumes, the list goes on) then yes, people will want to make federation characters, which in turn makes you create more federation-directed content.
I mean over the course of the year you had the gal-x package and all that good stuff, the patrol retrofit and such.
Over the course of the last few lockboxes more and more of the unique consoles the kdf had over the fed had been given away, less incentive to create KDF.
At the release of DR now, federation gets a whopping 6 T6 ships compared to 2 for KDF and 2 for Romulans.
if I am a new player, would I want this...
http://oi58.tinypic.com/jtrw9s.jpg
or this
http://oi59.tinypic.com/k54xvd.jpg
To me the answer seems obviously leaning toward the federation. And if you want to know what true suffering is, you play a kdf science officer as your choice of ships is incredibly limited, to that point I mean you have literally no choice in the end game without either saving up millions of EC or spending money. The "free" dyson can't get gotten anymore except with 600 lobi, have fun saving that up, then there is the lockbox temporal vessels, again gambling or paying at what the moment is 200+ million for one. The advanced dysons cost 2500 zen, the Varanus non-fleet costs 2000 zen, your best bet for a science ship is to save for the fleet varanus as you can save enough dil-to-zen for a few fleet modules and save enough EC on the remainder of what fleet modules you need.
Then of course the kdf has something of what I would call a slanted allocation of ship types. The most iconic ship of the klingons is the Bird of Prey, in fact, going back to my own childhood memories of star trek, I knew about the bird of prey before I really understood what the klingons were, the ship stuck in my head more than the race. What the KDF has in abundance is battlecruisers, the KDF is swimming in battle cruisers, the only non battlecruiser kdf ship I remember ever being advertised was the dyson and thats a cross-faction ship anyways, and I been playing for over a year and a half.
This goes back to why a raptor got a T6 over the BoP, the most iconic KDF ship style, which is also the ship that was used for stealth, ambushes, scouting and reconnaissance, you know, ACTUAL INTEL! Now don't me wrong, the Mat'ha raptor is a decent ship but I can actually number quite a few people who were scratching there head along with myself as to why a raptor got T6 first over a BoP.
You show bias toward the federation because you make content for the federation and to a point almost only for the federation, along with mishandling the KDF. Then when people PREDICTABLY join the federation because of all the content being made for them in a staggering disproportionate manner, you can turn around and go "SEE! PEOPLE LOVE THE FED MORE!". And frankly your logic is just plain silly.
You say people make feds most, well yeah, if you keep making primarily and mostly fed content (namely more ships, more customization options, more costumes, the list goes on) then yes, people will want to make federation characters, which in turn makes you create more federation-directed content.
I mean over the course of the year you had the gal-x package and all that good stuff, the patrol retrofit and such.
Over the course of the last few lockboxes more and more of the unique consoles the kdf had over the fed had been given away, less incentive to create KDF.
At the release of DR now, federation gets a whopping 6 T6 ships compared to 2 for KDF and 2 for Romulans.
if I am a new player, would I want this...
http://oi58.tinypic.com/jtrw9s.jpg
or this
http://oi59.tinypic.com/k54xvd.jpg
To me the answer seems obviously leaning toward the federation. And if you want to know what true suffering is, you play a kdf science officer as your choice of ships is incredibly limited, to that point I mean you have literally no choice in the end game without either saving up millions of EC or spending money. The "free" dyson can't get gotten anymore except with 600 lobi, have fun saving that up, then there is the lockbox temporal vessels, again gambling or paying at what the moment is 200+ million for one. The advanced dysons cost 2500 zen, the Varanus non-fleet costs 2000 zen, your best bet for a science ship is to save for the fleet varanus as you can save enough dil-to-zen for a few fleet modules and save enough EC on the remainder of what fleet modules you need.
Then of course the kdf has something of what I would call a slanted allocation of ship types. The most iconic ship of the klingons is the Bird of Prey, in fact, going back to my own childhood memories of star trek, I knew about the bird of prey before I really understood what the klingons were, the ship stuck in my head more than the race. What the KDF has in abundance is battlecruisers, the KDF is swimming in battle cruisers, the only non battlecruiser kdf ship I remember ever being advertised was the dyson and thats a cross-faction ship anyways, and I been playing for over a year and a half.
This goes back to why a raptor got a T6 over the BoP, the most iconic KDF ship style, which is also the ship that was used for stealth, ambushes, scouting and reconnaissance, you know, ACTUAL INTEL! Now don't me wrong, the Mat'ha raptor is a decent ship but I can actually number quite a few people who were scratching there head along with myself as to why a raptor got T6 first over a BoP.
You show bias toward the federation because you make content for the federation and to a point almost only for the federation, along with mishandling the KDF. Then when people PREDICTABLY join the federation because of all the content being made for them in a staggering disproportionate manner, you can turn around and go "SEE! PEOPLE LOVE THE FED MORE!". And frankly your logic is just plain silly.
Post edited by miirik on
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Also, there's nothing preventing Klinks/Roms from flying the Benthan or Hazari T6 ships... so, you got 4 technically
which can be said for the federation as well, so you got 8 technically.
Yes i know lockbox vessels can be used too, but again I am trying to speak from a faction only perspective.
In Canon the FEDs and KDF are allies.
So you thinc the Fed bias is like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGAVTwhsyOs
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Right up until the Klingon Empire needed to take steps to protect the Alpha and Beta Quadrants from prior Federation mess ups, and the Feds abandoned the alliance and falsely condemned KDF actions.
that is an apt analogy
Great now you have me thinking of a fourth faction (Which the RR almost fits in with.) Mercenaries. You have a few generic missions at low level for the an npc faction, then the RR, then the KDF, and finally a fed mission. Then similar to the RR you chose your primary contract holder.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
So they tend to choose the Federation faction first, they probably get to max level play a few endgame content and then roll a new toon, be it Klingon or now Romulan. Now a lot of people will take it to max level and then grind out both or all of their toons. However a lot more will discover this game is very very grindy and don't have the time to play multiple toons, plus the fact that, yes you are correct there is less content in other faction than the Federation. So they head back to their first character and play that pretty much 99% of the time.
So when Cryptic looks at faction player numbers, they see that the Federation has more players so they produce more content for the faction that has more numbers.
A lot of players play Federation because it was their first toon and they will continue to play that more than any other toon.
So when Cryptic breaks down the numbers
Make 5 new fed ships at £1000 each 60% player base
Make 5 new Klingon ships at £1000 each 30% player base
Make 5 new Romulan ships at £1000 each 10% player base
Can you guess where they will be make money and where they will be losing money. I know it is an inconvenient truth, but that is how they run their business.
Disclaimer
I have no idea how much it costs them to make new content!
oh i get it, but at the same time i'm also making the point they are not putting any incentive to be anything but fed.
Since there are already Klingon ships, it only stands to reason that they could sell MORE of them by adding MORE incentives to play KDF side.
I actually LOL'd at the last patch notes, where it said that not only were there more ships (5-2) in the expansion, but there were more hull materials (7-4) on each.
Money is money. Either they want to make money off of KDF, or they don't. What they're doing now is saying "We don't want your money, unless it's for Federation stuff."
More options is always a good thing. Although, I do have to say that they seem to be telling us "Play what WE want, where WE want you to" even more lately. Seems to be the direction they're taking.
umm Im a Romulan, so at least you are an actual faction.
I am stuck with the Klingon color palette and have to travel to f'ing Qonos to get my free lobi.
On top of that, Im fairly sure the Art Dept has never seen a romulan since everytime they come out with new marketing material the Romulans look less and less Romulan.
If Cryptic rehashes a new layout to an existing design with a new skin or slightly new hull design, players will complain about it being a "lazy" rehash, even if it follows KDF ship canon philosophy.
If Cryptic releases a new and original design intended to fill in some gaps, players will complain about "muh canon!" and rant and whine over how it should look more canon, which falls back into the first problem.
Which results in cycling back to the Federation side of the loop; while some complain, they embrace it more easily. See all the 180' shifting to loving the Eclipse, Phantom, and Guardian after having some time with them and their visual customization, and the 90' half-shift to tolerating the Scryer and Dauntless even if there's still some issues with the saucer or layout.
At this point, it would just be best for Cryptic to full on go and release more new and original designs for the KDF, canon be damned. The easiest way to do this is just add another minor or side race to the KDF collective that caters to what the KDF currently lacks, and build fresh ships for them without having to be bound with the constraints in designing a new BoP or some other iconic Klingon variant. At worst, you'd see a new BoP that is everything a BoP is except in visual design. At least it'll still be KDF.
Same with Romulan designs - apart from T'Liss, T'Varo, Mogai, D'd and Scim, the rest are Cryptic's own, and they fit in.
Except pride in our faction, I know that is a foreign concept for feddy bears as they will fly anythign they THINK gives them an advantage. but I play as a Klingon and only fly faction ships. i mean we do have less but what we have is better otherwise feds would not constantly be crying for our stuff. ( and we would not cry when the bias devs give it to you.) just to get it and still suck. what the KDF has over the feds in general is not gear or other shiny things its our players. sure feds have some damn good players. not trying to take away from them at all. i mean hell Kirk was a fed, but we are just better . i think WORF labeled it Klingon guile LOL
Second this opinion.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
wait, were getting new ships soon? please do elaborate on your source :eek:
No circular logic behind that.
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Just one problem with that logic. You can add as much as you want to the KDF side, but that doesn't change the fact that most players play this game because they grew up watching Star Trek, and most of those players want to be Kirk, Picard, Sisko or Janeway. The Federation is the focus of the tv series and movies, so that's what most people are going to want to play.
If the roles were reversed and the KDF had the majority of the content and Federation had far less ships and far less options, people would STILL choose Federation over KDF most of the time.
It has nothing to do with how much one side has over the other side, it has to do with what people want.
Next time you go to a Star Trek convention, take a look around. You'll notice a LOT more people going as Federation than Klingon, and it has not really due to Klingon's taking more work and effort, its because people like the Federation more.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
... or he's able to manipulate and control vast swaths of the Star Trek fanbase and STO playerbase into playing a faction they otherwise would not voluntarily play because everybody watches the Star Trek movies and TV shows to see Romulans and Klingons, but he's able to be so clever by controlling the minds and actions of players to twist their arm and force them to roll a Fed captain similar to drug pushers, making him a scheming mastermind manipulator of James Bond villain proportions.
Make up your mind, he can't be both.
I choose to believe he can.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
So he's like Schroedinger's Gecko? Simultaneously incompetent and an evil malicious manipulative supergenius.
I think the only way to have balanced factions while pursuing growth would be to release a game with no Federation faction. This is accepting a tradeoff as a developer in terms of initial interest but accepting tradeoffs is good if it's done strategically. I have followed online Trek games since there were Trek MUDs.
This could work in a simple of heavily mechanical or procedural game.
It would still be tricky to work as an MMO.
If you have the Federation as an option, players will choose it.
If you have an MMO, one faction will dominate. People can point out Sith popularity in SWTOR but the result is one faction dominating. People can point out the "balance" in WoW but the reality is that their factions overlap enough that most content works for both with text changes, they have 7 odd million players which creates development resources, and even then, on any given server, faction parity is unlikely. The MMO works best as a single faction affair.
Personally, I think the most balanced approach for STO would have been to avoid the whole Tac/Sci/Eng divisions and the Fed/Klingon war. Treat the Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers as one faction. Then treat each empire as a class.
So maybe Roms would be the DPS/poison/healers, Fed would be tanks/healers, and Klingons would be DPS/tank/buffers. Cardassians would be DPS/crowd control.
One faction. "Empire" would dictate role. You slap the least popular role onto the most popular empire.
Instead of Feds being Alliance and KDF being Horde, KDF and Feds would be part of a larger faction where Feds are paladins/priests, Romulans are rogues/warlocks, KDF are hunters/warriors, etc.
Actually I watch Star trek for one particular species, but the Original show didn't show them, The next generation also miss the mark and Deep space nine, it wasn't till Voyager, that I truly found the race I was watching Star trek for and thank god they just put them in the game.
TALAXIANS!
It would be circular logic if we started with some kind of vacuum, and created two completely equally "interesting" factions, and for some reason one gained more attraction at first.
But we did not. We started with the Star Trek franchise, which has constantly focused on Starfleet, the Federation and humans.
You will never be able to discuss that away.
Games like Klingon Academy worked well because they were only about the Klingons, there was no possibility to choose a faction. You only could choose "Do I want another Star Trek Game, or not?"
I am sorry but can you illuminate me on this stance?
I ask because while I agree with the general statement that we join a Star Trek game to play the Federation for the most part. But to create alternatives then not give them solid support seems counter intuitive.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
While not as big as the feds, the KDF had big fleets and communities organizing for the launch of the game and a lot of those players left and never came back after the whole unfinished and pvp only faction the KDF started as.
If STO was a bigger success and didn't lose a lot players from the get go, I think other factions would of been viable. There would have been enough interest to want to play them and mmo fans in general like having different factions to play as.
you've obviously never been to a convention and seen the number of terrible klingon foreheads and makeup