test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Tetryon use and discussion
cmdrscarlet
Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
Theres a saying somewhere in my head that tells me, "Anything can be justified." So Im posting this to see if thats true for Tetryon weapons.
I know the argument against them and in super-short: proc is not so good. But then you get certain flavors that sort of twists the end line. For example, Refracting Tetryon not only has the standard proc, but also has a chance to do extra damage. For the DR content and the Voth, they have either heavy or harder shields. For the below descriptions "Tetryon" is meant to be any/all weapons that use the Tetryon proc. I also know my knowledge of the subject may seem n00bish so I appreciate any clarification or corrections.
Understanding the goal is to "null the hull", the shields must be penetrated first. Why, then, are the Elachi Disruptors not favored as their proc bypasses the shield entirely? This means you could effectively kill the target from bleedthough and proc before the shields are down. Yet, Ive read in a couple of places where people are complaining about the hull HP (in DR) being so much that they are killing targets before shields are striped anyway So, if the goal is to null the hull fast, then why are weapons that get to the hull faster not being considered more often?
Understanding that the Tetryon proc only affects the shield, then any proc activation after the shields are down are wasted, but how often are shield down long enough to have the proc be utterly wasted from multiple activations? It seems to me this point of view comes from a vacuum setting where the weapon is being fired at the target without any other factors involved. On the chance you get past the shields, the player and/or target may move enough where another shield facing gets in the way. Alternatively, target shield regen may bring them back up before the hull is destroyed. Would weapons that favor keeping the shield down be favored? Polaron quickly comes to mind, Phaser as well for that 2.5% chance to have a 25% chance to remove the barrier for a decent time :P, but again Tetryon seems to fit the shield-stripping bill better.
Understanding high "damage per second" is desired, the ability to pour out damage is needed. I can see why Phased Biomatter weapons are in vogue (not including the standard Plasma or AP and their variations), but Refracting Tetryon has one proc that could damage other targets AND could do more damage to shields. More damage = more dps, correct?
Oh, and then they are blue
Thoughts?
I know the argument against them and in super-short: proc is not so good. But then you get certain flavors that sort of twists the end line. For example, Refracting Tetryon not only has the standard proc, but also has a chance to do extra damage. For the DR content and the Voth, they have either heavy or harder shields. For the below descriptions "Tetryon" is meant to be any/all weapons that use the Tetryon proc. I also know my knowledge of the subject may seem n00bish so I appreciate any clarification or corrections.
Understanding the goal is to "null the hull", the shields must be penetrated first. Why, then, are the Elachi Disruptors not favored as their proc bypasses the shield entirely? This means you could effectively kill the target from bleedthough and proc before the shields are down. Yet, Ive read in a couple of places where people are complaining about the hull HP (in DR) being so much that they are killing targets before shields are striped anyway So, if the goal is to null the hull fast, then why are weapons that get to the hull faster not being considered more often?
Understanding that the Tetryon proc only affects the shield, then any proc activation after the shields are down are wasted, but how often are shield down long enough to have the proc be utterly wasted from multiple activations? It seems to me this point of view comes from a vacuum setting where the weapon is being fired at the target without any other factors involved. On the chance you get past the shields, the player and/or target may move enough where another shield facing gets in the way. Alternatively, target shield regen may bring them back up before the hull is destroyed. Would weapons that favor keeping the shield down be favored? Polaron quickly comes to mind, Phaser as well for that 2.5% chance to have a 25% chance to remove the barrier for a decent time :P, but again Tetryon seems to fit the shield-stripping bill better.
Understanding high "damage per second" is desired, the ability to pour out damage is needed. I can see why Phased Biomatter weapons are in vogue (not including the standard Plasma or AP and their variations), but Refracting Tetryon has one proc that could damage other targets AND could do more damage to shields. More damage = more dps, correct?
Oh, and then they are blue
Thoughts?
Post edited by cmdrscarlet on
0
Comments
Unless you try to get the most DPS possible, there is nothing wrong with tets. Doing the episodes, if you can survive long enough, tets will kill the enemies. There are those in the community who don't recognize any factor other than DPS, and they will tell you tets are bad....but I have been using them exclusively for a long time and have no issues and enjoy watching the enemies shields melt.
Energy choice as far as DPS goes only matters above 10-12k DPS, depending on what you are comparing to. If you are not doing that much, you wont notice the gap. Certainly, you could take an average player, swap their kit to Tetryon and it wouldn't make any difference.
Mostly because average players are useless at DPS in STO - now, if your standard is completing the PvE grind ASAP (and lets face it, what else matters in current STO PvE meta, especially now...) Tetryon of any flavour is just plain useless, as they do not actually contribute to killing stuff faster, just reducing its defences.
Refracting is an unreliable exception, but that just makes it best of a bad bunch.
This is mind you, coming from a person, who cannot fathom playing the game as a game but, instead only how efficiently you can kill something in seconds.
So, take what this person says, with a grain of salt.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
And that coming from someone who openly admitted posting to troll in a previous encounter...
Better luck next time Wraithy.
I guess sarcasm is, something else you cannot comprehend as well!
I am not trolling the OP's question.
However I question your intentions of relative information, considering it only offers a one track mind set and, not a mind set of what may be deemed fun, outside of your dps mentality!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
If they perhaps reduced shield regen or something, that would go a long way to making them worth a TRIBBLE.
That said, they are excellent for budget-builds.
Remember that the shield damage is affected by things that boost shield drains.
Use a binomial calculator.
Run some 'time to kill' calculations and have a ball.
It's about as easy as rolling your face on the keyboard if you're doing something like an ISA, but for other content you may wish to explore different approaches, Tet could be one of them.
EDIT: Budget for sure. On the other hand the proc isn't bad unless you're comparing it to an AP builds BO3. It's a non weapon power shield damaging proc. you can do 2k shield damage with a crappy Mk XI beam with one crappy flow cap installed. So for certain gear levels or builds it will work as advertised.
Four things.
1. I am well aware of sarcasm, it is the lowest form of wit. It is also something I use a lot.
2. I implied you were trolling me, not the OP.
3A. If you actually read the post you would realise it was actually a defence of Tetryons for half of it. Well, maybe not a defence, but at least justifying their use.
3B. I gave a clear, un-biased position as a starting point for the part you dismiss as "one track mind set and, not a mind set of what may be deemed fun, outside of your dps mentality!"
You only offer some nebulous concept of fun, which means different things to different people.
4. I do not have a DPS mentality - I just recognise it is what STO PvE requires. If you were to actually look up my characters on Gateway*, you would see that they are pretty much all VR Mk X/R Mk XI equipped. Fairly sure, it has been some time since I last logged in...
Only 2 or 3 actually use even some of the stuff I recommend at least once every day to people looking to improve their DPS, and I only have one character with a full on DPS build, and it is a Tribble character so doesn't really count. (The reasons for the above vary, but mostly to do with VPvP)
* Don't look up Kilaitia or Ririatss, they are both newbie VPvP alts who I really ought to finish levelling but DR means I CBA...
ETA - It is worth noting I do not take VPvP spec alts or builds into teamed PvE before anyone inquires in a hostile manner about bringing a sub-par build into teamed content...
@cbrjwrr - My eyebrows raised on your comment:
I am certainly your average player's average player :P. Yet I look at threads like this one: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1267031 and I have to wonder about energy weapon choices. There, Sarcamdetector uses a Narcine equipped with Phased Biomatter: the proc deals extra damage, yet doesn't Refracting Tetryon do the same with the added benefit of reducing shields faster?.
Mind you, I was not there but I saw the parsing that day I dont remember the amount of damage done by that refracting tetryon cascade but when I saw it, it smelled like boosted by tac consoles.
Which means he was likely using also tetryon beam arrays .
I am talking about the 89k ISE run by Felisean, before DR, even before the first upgrades.
Time will only tell!
In the DPS Record parse I have, the Cascade was critting for 20-25k actual, across all 3 of its Crit uses.
At their level, that is just 2 beam weapon firings - so, nice extra, not worth buffing unless said buff compromises nothing else on the ship.
Phased has a quite nasty proc in Biomatter Needle Burst, one much better than Refracting. As in, better than the weapon that set it off. Refracting of course, is not as good as the weapon that set it off.
The area affect bit may as well be ignorable, and that is a good thing, as it splits the proc damage.
(no other rep gear installed)
...So I can hardly wait to go back to my tet build.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Time will only tell!
Then, I got a set of Corrosive Plasma weapons. This surprise was better than the first.
I finished the Nukara Rep and bought the Space Set. It did well with the regular tetryon weapons. So I went back and spent money on the Refracting ones and the Hyper one as well. I must admit I tried tetryons about a year ago and said, 'meh'. The Refracting ones along with Spire Consoles and the Console Set have been a good surprise as well. They have performed very well and I will continue tp see what happens when I begin to upgrade Consoles and Weapons to Mk XIV.
And that's not even counting when you get an NPC with a million hull points and the shields NEVER drop, EVER. You must kill them solely based on bleedthrough.
And THAT is why DPS is king. Because the NPCs cheat. If shield mechanics worked, tetryons would serve a valuable role. Instead, you need as MUCH dps as possible simply because that means more bleedthrough. Otherwise you're sitting there doing jack and/or squat (not in that particular order) and you're totally wasting a weapon proc type.
If NPCs weren't such cheating A-holes, we could get some mileage from tets. Until that's fixed? They're pretty useless. Especially for the tiny amount of damage they do and the very low % of occurence.
If this is true, then the argument against using Tet when the shields are down means something. Yet, if NPC shield regen is high, then shield stripping keeps tet in the discussion ... and that's still with a 2.5% chance to activate.
Alternatively, other ways to rid the target of shields can be compared: Polarons reduce system power: shut down the shields = no shileds ... but that is still a proc .. the same chance for Tets. Phasers is a chance-to-chance to shut down shields. Any other weapon type? I can't think of them right now.
It seems to me "DPS is king" is a weak argument against Tets because 1) any MMO will have players attempting to find the shortest route to defeat a target and that's through DPS, and 2) that would mean no other energy type should be considered by players, or suggested to players, other than AP.
I get a cascade effect upfront so it working very effectively damage wise. While using these weapons I see the DPS increase levels are higher. Proc does cause additional damage when using Refracting Tetryon .
Time will only tell!
As long as shields are up, they negate X percent of incoming fire. Especially with BS NPC behavior. Even the slightest 1% sliver of shields still acts as effectively as 100%.
SO, you see that stripping shields does not in any way actually help kill anything faster UNLESS said shield-stripping can actually bring the shields down (with enough use). Then you'll definitely benefit from much greater direct-hull damage. This just never happens now. That is why tetryons are useless. With a 2.5% chance to do a paltry 300 shield damage or so, the results speak for themselves. NPCs heal back so fast you kill them entirely with bleedthrough.
In this case, such weapons which do NOT rely on broken shield mechanics are all invariable superior to tetryons. Plasma? Direct to hull damage. Phaser? Resists are through the roof, but one in a million chance you'll disable something, plus elite fleet phasers have heals. Disruptor? Awesome debuff. Polaron? Debatable effectiveness, but lowers power levels regardless of shields, at least theoretically lessening shield regen rates. Antiproton? YES please!
So, as you can see above, tetryon are currently the most useless proc compared to every other option. It's not the damage that's being called into question. The weapon type itself is fine. It's the standard "once in a blue moon do a minor amount of shield damage that makes no difference at all to the target" proc.
1) Using the Omega 2-piece set for shield drain which is better than ALL the tetryon procs.
2) Using polarized tetryon beams with their 10% chance proc.
Even considering the above. DR's changes made shield drain practically useless in general. Even Tachyon Beam 2/3, both of which worked in extreme situations pre-DR are now garbage, even if you stack in the Solanae 2nd deflector extra drain. Until the devs make some adjustments, I'd avoid using them in general.