Why is it that the players are expected to be fully accountable for their play decisions, but Cryptic accepts no accountability for creating the exploit in the first place? In my world, why you TRIBBLE up, you pay for it. It's a grown-up idea called accountability. Cryptic would be wise to learn it.
Then again, there are those of us who didn't even use the stupid friggin' exploit. Why are we even involved?
None of them were cheating, they identified a better way of leveling than the content that was provided with the expansion.
What they did was no different than running a patrol mission in the Delta Quadrant and playing it on repeat. They just found that the Romulan Sector gave them a better reward for their grind and time.
I point to the advanced PvE queues or Borg stf's. Very few were playing them due to the rewards didn't reflect the time it took to complete the mission.
So to call them cheaters/exploiters for playing a sector of the map that gave them a better reward than the same exact mission in the Delta Quadrant but with different NPC's is out of order.
Cryptic are in the wrong here. Not the players that found a better sector to grind to reward the time and effort put into playing.
What Cryptic should have done in the 1st place is to reward enough xp for the FE of the new expansion to allow a player to level from 50-60. Not make it a 9-5 job of leveling a character
Why is it that the players are expected to be fully accountable for their play decisions, but Cryptic accepts no accountability for creating the exploit in the first place? In my world, why you TRIBBLE up, you pay for it. It's a grown-up idea called accountability. Cryptic would be wise to learn it.
Then again, there are those of us who didn't even use the stupid friggin' exploit. Why are we even involved?
This argument is a slippery slope.
If an exploit exists it is the players responsibility to report it, not abuse it. Exploits happen, they slip through some times.
This was different, however. It worked exactly as they allowed it in Tribble, allowed it to roll over to live despite the fact it was brought to their attention, hard coded a note to the players to do patrol missions to farm xp, and the, and only then, decided it was an exploit this isnt a case of an exploit slipping through unbeknownst to the Devs. This is them punishing the player base for following the rules they encouraged right before they changed the rules.
Why is that the player's responsibility? The player never signed up for QA.
Erh! Youre going to make me put on my old mod hat . Fine
When you sign up to create an account you must sign the End User License Agreement, or EULA. This agreement (which should ALKWAYS be read through) outline the responsibilities of both the company as a provider and you as a player. You are entering into this agreement in good faith.
Does the agreement stipulate that it is the players responsibility to locate, identify and report any and all exploitive issues in the game? No, but this is an expectation. You are not punished for not doing so, however, and can choose to ignore them and play on.
If you take part in what the company deems as exploitive behaviour, even unknowingly or unintentionally, then, under the details outlined in the EULA, you may be punished in a number of ways including, but not limited to, being banned from the game.
The loophole in this is for the provider, not the player. They do not need to prove to you how they know you were indicated in exploitive behaviour, just that you were. However, I can easily say that the expectation is that if they are to take such a sweeping action they have a responsibility to explain themselves.
*takes that old hat off, puts the player hat back on*
Now, no matter what, Cryptic handled this incredibly poorly. The problem is that the exploit lay hidden within programmed content they released and could ONLY be taken advantage of if players followed Cryptics suggestion of repeating patrols. Essentially, they set us up to fail.
1) Farming NPC is not exploit
2) Farming NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
3) Farming low level NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
4) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
5) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players with 50-55 level player in it is not exploit
6) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players with 50-55 level player and team mathing his level to gain more XP IS exploit
1) Farming NPC is not exploit
2) Farming NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
3) Farming low level NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
4) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
5) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players with 50-55 level player in it is not exploit
6) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players with 50-55 level player and team mathing his level to gain more XP IS exploit
Dats it .
No not even the last one is exploiting, since you gain less xp, as compared to a lvl 60 npc.
In TD when you not matched level with a lvl 5x, npc where only spawning with lvl 50 (which is wasted xp), if you teamed up with someone below 60 they spawned in the appropriate level of the one below lvl 60.
The mobs still gave less xp then fully fledged 60s, like in argala.
I ran both japori and argala in groups. The only difference was that japori was faster, because the hp increase was lower.
A lvl 56 mob has 40% less hp then a lvl 60 and thats basically the whole deal, people leveld to fast, not "exploited" anything since the xp scaling worked.
There might was a problem with the loot tables, but I doubt people where playing for that.
If an exploit manages to take down the server or creates a situation where players are able to obtain store items for free or any other detrimental circumstance, who takes the financial hit? If the game shuts down tomorrow, who is going to take the monetary loss, you or Cryptic?
I don't think you're as accountable as you think you are.
They can technically declare anything an exploit, retroactively even, and then strip you of progress. Again retroactively. I don't think that is more honest than joining some random groups, with the intention of leveling, and then somehow fail to ask everyone if they possibly are trying to get more XP than they should, based on something you don't know about yet.
You're accountable for what you do in game while playing it. If that includes doing something the Devs declare an exploit, then guess what you're doing?
Then they'd better declare it. Nothing I did has been declared an exploit.
And even those who did 'exploit' Tau Dewa... they were prevented from doing it before the Devs declared anything.
That's like calling Dyson ground zone an exploit then since it gives Dilithium faster than anywhere else since the STF nerf. Should we just stop playing it since we have NO IDEA what the devs consider an exploit?
Comments by someone who hasn't any real experience in DR...
Sorry but there has to be a reward for the effort expended as well as the time. Due to the butthurt suffered by the dev's for their failure to balance the game correctly on release, they have got the ****s and nerfbattered everything within hitting distance while blaming the players for the errors they didn't fix in the game.
I couldn't care less if they said you couldn't burn through content, artificially limiting playing time because they haven't produced enough content is pretty terrible. However seeing as the amount of content is roughly the same as previous episodes prior to Breen and Borg. Rom Mystery has a bit more but the quality is about 20% that of the DR missions.
Thing is the missions feel like they should be played through linearly without massive breaks like the current level grind defines due to pacing issues with the breaks.
Kobali zone is terrible when split up. It's really pretty good when played in a consistent and linear manner.
TBH whoever is doing the mission pacing and flow needs to look long and hard at how they did it. I've seen mods for games that are 1000% more polished in that regards.
There are some good parts to DR, but they are few compared to the problems introduced and the way the playerbase has been treated because someone thinks that people should play in just one way.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
First of all, I'm on a Mac, and can't play the game. Haven't been able to since DR launched. So, any issues over the ability to power level isn't getting sympathy from a player that can't even play the game.
With that said, let's step back, take a breath, and do a little math:
With the launch of DR and the specialization tree, we are introduced to the idea that advancing one level earns you one point. So, moving from 50-60 earns you ten points. The fun doesn't stop there, however, as their are 60 abilities to unlock. So, in essence, you will need to advance 50 more levels to unlock everything (ignoring the issue of adding more specializations in later updates).
So, what this sounds like to me: only a week and a half after the launch of DR, you essentially have a certain number of players at Level 110.
That's insane. Given that the dev team said at STLV that you won't be able to "burn through content" once DR goes live, and that there is no Bonus XP event going on... yeah, if you've maxed out at Level 60 AND maxed out your specializations, that's an exploit. This doesn't make you a "bad" player, nor is it punishing you for teaming up with friends... it just means that something doesn't work, as the devs intended. They had to close the exploit, because this means that a certain number of players: (a) burned through content that wasn't meant to be burnt through at that speed, and (b) now have an easy path to gain dilithium, which could easily spell money out of Cryptic's pocket. At the very least, this door was open, and a real threat to them.
That's a double whammy in Cryptic's book... so, yes, stuff needed to change. Sad part is, this wasn't caught in beta. Should it have been? Who knows, but if it was, it would have saved us from a TON of drama. What's worse, the patch that was supposed to close this exploit seems to have created more problems (missing Specialization points, DIL exchange issues, XP reductions where there maybe should be increases?) You may not agree with it, and that is your right... pull your money from this game, if you deem that necessary.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that... this is a hot mess. And fix my Mac client, because it is broken.
whether it WAS am exploit or not cryptic should not punish everyone for a small amount of players who were exploiting.
not everyone was exploiting hell i only visited tau dewa about a week ago for somethig else i havent fdone any patrols in the past 3-4 months since i completed the rom rep.
and I ME got tapped for 2 levels and thats just wrong
What was the exploit?
I've seeing different accounts on what it was.
There was a way to rapidly farm certain system patrols (which lacked cooldown timers) so as to gain 3-4 levels an hour, maxing out specializations and then getting 2880 dil per 'level' afterwards. Cheat code for easy leveling and dil farming basically, and some people were abusing it to ridiculous amounts. Cryptic nerfed those people hard (they're mad cause they got caught), but also caught some innocent or mostly-innocent people in the crossfire, resulting in all these threads.
There was a way to rapidly farm certain system patrols (which lacked cooldown timers) so as to gain 3-4 levels an hour, maxing out specializations and then getting 2880 dil per 'level' afterwards. Cheat code for easy leveling and dil farming basically, and some people were abusing it to ridiculous amounts. Cryptic nerfed those people hard (they're mad cause they got caught), but also caught some innocent or mostly-innocent people in the crossfire, resulting in all these threads.
I've not seen any proof anyone is mad who got caught. Only those who were nerf batted that didn't have anything to do with TD farming seem to be mad, oh and those who are capable of basic logic to see that Cryptic changed the goal posts ad hoc to suit their blame game.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I still say both cryptic and the players who were using this exploit are at fault. Cryptic for not knowing their own game well enough to see this coming and fixing it before hand, and the players for abusing a system that was clearly not meant to be there. The offending players should indeed lose something from this, and cryptic should probably do something to rectify this situation, like getting their collective asses in gear and fixing everything else that's wrong with DR immediately.
Lol all these white knights trying to justify how rerunning a patrol mission cryptic has been aware of since dr hit tribble using a mechanic that is and has been working as intended for years following a level curve consistent with 1-50 leveling is an exploit.
short version: it was a trick to make mobs give more XP than they should.
The longer version :
STO had the "Mirror Invasion" mission to powerlevel for 3 years (out of it's 5 year existence) .
(said mission was removed in favor of "XP weekend" events that come about every 6-8 months)
STO had teaming option and matching levels option for the whole of it's near 5 year existence .
STO Devs decided that "players were not performing as expected" on Tuesday , and decided to deal the "exploit" card sometime after that ... , with no shame and no sense of the game's history .
Result :
Alienated playerbase .
Ppl rage quitting .
Ppl deciding to play the Dil weekend and to quit after that .
Ppl defending Cryptic .
Ppl with the wait & see attitude .
Supposedly it WAS reported in beta but nothing was done THEN to fix it. Maybe they thought nobody would notice, well guess what. Somebody noticed, and everyone is paying the price.
The sad truth may be that someone fekked up, and the players are getting punished. At least we get a couple of kittens this weekend to help us forget that we were BAD players. I wonder what we'll be punished for next week.
No one is getting punished.
If the mistake had never been made, things would work exactly as they work now. No one would have speed levelled, intentionally or unintentionally.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
Have you no sense or morality, or do you just shelf it in order to try to be in good graces with those in power?
I am beginning to think some believe it gives them a nerf shield of some sort...
"Don't hurt me, Devs! I'm your biggest fan!"
The players didn't code the game.
Why is it that the players are expected to be fully accountable for their play decisions, but Cryptic accepts no accountability for creating the exploit in the first place? In my world, why you TRIBBLE up, you pay for it. It's a grown-up idea called accountability. Cryptic would be wise to learn it.
Then again, there are those of us who didn't even use the stupid friggin' exploit. Why are we even involved?
What they did was no different than running a patrol mission in the Delta Quadrant and playing it on repeat. They just found that the Romulan Sector gave them a better reward for their grind and time.
I point to the advanced PvE queues or Borg stf's. Very few were playing them due to the rewards didn't reflect the time it took to complete the mission.
So to call them cheaters/exploiters for playing a sector of the map that gave them a better reward than the same exact mission in the Delta Quadrant but with different NPC's is out of order.
Cryptic are in the wrong here. Not the players that found a better sector to grind to reward the time and effort put into playing.
What Cryptic should have done in the 1st place is to reward enough xp for the FE of the new expansion to allow a player to level from 50-60. Not make it a 9-5 job of leveling a character
This argument is a slippery slope.
If an exploit exists it is the players responsibility to report it, not abuse it. Exploits happen, they slip through some times.
This was different, however. It worked exactly as they allowed it in Tribble, allowed it to roll over to live despite the fact it was brought to their attention, hard coded a note to the players to do patrol missions to farm xp, and the, and only then, decided it was an exploit this isnt a case of an exploit slipping through unbeknownst to the Devs. This is them punishing the player base for following the rules they encouraged right before they changed the rules.
Why is that the player's responsibility? The player never signed up for QA.
Erh! Youre going to make me put on my old mod hat . Fine
When you sign up to create an account you must sign the End User License Agreement, or EULA. This agreement (which should ALKWAYS be read through) outline the responsibilities of both the company as a provider and you as a player. You are entering into this agreement in good faith.
Does the agreement stipulate that it is the players responsibility to locate, identify and report any and all exploitive issues in the game? No, but this is an expectation. You are not punished for not doing so, however, and can choose to ignore them and play on.
If you take part in what the company deems as exploitive behaviour, even unknowingly or unintentionally, then, under the details outlined in the EULA, you may be punished in a number of ways including, but not limited to, being banned from the game.
The loophole in this is for the provider, not the player. They do not need to prove to you how they know you were indicated in exploitive behaviour, just that you were. However, I can easily say that the expectation is that if they are to take such a sweeping action they have a responsibility to explain themselves.
*takes that old hat off, puts the player hat back on*
Now, no matter what, Cryptic handled this incredibly poorly. The problem is that the exploit lay hidden within programmed content they released and could ONLY be taken advantage of if players followed Cryptics suggestion of repeating patrols. Essentially, they set us up to fail.
2) Farming NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
3) Farming low level NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
4) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players is not exploit
5) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players with 50-55 level player in it is not exploit
6) Farming low level ELITE NPC with Grp of players with 50-55 level player and team mathing his level to gain more XP IS exploit
Dats it .
No not even the last one is exploiting, since you gain less xp, as compared to a lvl 60 npc.
In TD when you not matched level with a lvl 5x, npc where only spawning with lvl 50 (which is wasted xp), if you teamed up with someone below 60 they spawned in the appropriate level of the one below lvl 60.
The mobs still gave less xp then fully fledged 60s, like in argala.
I ran both japori and argala in groups. The only difference was that japori was faster, because the hp increase was lower.
A lvl 56 mob has 40% less hp then a lvl 60 and thats basically the whole deal, people leveld to fast, not "exploited" anything since the xp scaling worked.
There might was a problem with the loot tables, but I doubt people where playing for that.
I shouldn't be accountable in the slightest.
I don't design content. I play it.
Then they'd better declare it. Nothing I did has been declared an exploit.
And even those who did 'exploit' Tau Dewa... they were prevented from doing it before the Devs declared anything.
So again, not accountable in the slightest.
That's like calling Dyson ground zone an exploit then since it gives Dilithium faster than anywhere else since the STF nerf. Should we just stop playing it since we have NO IDEA what the devs consider an exploit?
Sorry but there has to be a reward for the effort expended as well as the time. Due to the butthurt suffered by the dev's for their failure to balance the game correctly on release, they have got the ****s and nerfbattered everything within hitting distance while blaming the players for the errors they didn't fix in the game.
I couldn't care less if they said you couldn't burn through content, artificially limiting playing time because they haven't produced enough content is pretty terrible. However seeing as the amount of content is roughly the same as previous episodes prior to Breen and Borg. Rom Mystery has a bit more but the quality is about 20% that of the DR missions.
Thing is the missions feel like they should be played through linearly without massive breaks like the current level grind defines due to pacing issues with the breaks.
Kobali zone is terrible when split up. It's really pretty good when played in a consistent and linear manner.
TBH whoever is doing the mission pacing and flow needs to look long and hard at how they did it. I've seen mods for games that are 1000% more polished in that regards.
There are some good parts to DR, but they are few compared to the problems introduced and the way the playerbase has been treated because someone thinks that people should play in just one way.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I've seeing different accounts on what it was.
whether it WAS am exploit or not cryptic should not punish everyone for a small amount of players who were exploiting.
not everyone was exploiting hell i only visited tau dewa about a week ago for somethig else i havent fdone any patrols in the past 3-4 months since i completed the rom rep.
and I ME got tapped for 2 levels and thats just wrong
My character Tsin'xing
Should I try praying too since I'm just as likely to get a response?
There was a way to rapidly farm certain system patrols (which lacked cooldown timers) so as to gain 3-4 levels an hour, maxing out specializations and then getting 2880 dil per 'level' afterwards. Cheat code for easy leveling and dil farming basically, and some people were abusing it to ridiculous amounts. Cryptic nerfed those people hard (they're mad cause they got caught), but also caught some innocent or mostly-innocent people in the crossfire, resulting in all these threads.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1268701
I've not seen any proof anyone is mad who got caught. Only those who were nerf batted that didn't have anything to do with TD farming seem to be mad, oh and those who are capable of basic logic to see that Cryptic changed the goal posts ad hoc to suit their blame game.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
The longer version :
STO had the "Mirror Invasion" mission to powerlevel for 3 years (out of it's 5 year existence) .
(said mission was removed in favor of "XP weekend" events that come about every 6-8 months)
STO had teaming option and matching levels option for the whole of it's near 5 year existence .
STO Devs decided that "players were not performing as expected" on Tuesday , and decided to deal the "exploit" card sometime after that ... , with no shame and no sense of the game's history .
Result :
Alienated playerbase .
Ppl rage quitting .
Ppl deciding to play the Dil weekend and to quit after that .
Ppl defending Cryptic .
Ppl with the wait & see attitude .
If the mistake had never been made, things would work exactly as they work now. No one would have speed levelled, intentionally or unintentionally.