Greedy ****** everyone of you. You talk about how you make millions of EC but never go in to great detail about how or what you do to get millions. DON"T say you not rich by any mean or whatever you say just **** off the OP is right and this go for every game this need be done not saying at 20k maybe at most 50m for the more high end stuff.
Arrgg .....
Get-rich-quick schemes do not exist unless you do it by selling C-Store items. Instead, those of us with our billion(s) worked hard to earn it. Need a little help? Here is a spreadsheet (easy to use) that might work for you if you put in the time and effort: http://bit.ly/STOECGenerator
Also, being rich does not mean a person is greedy. So I made my fortune selling TR-116Bs, but I have given away (free!) almost as many rifles as I sold. I doubt you could say the same about whatever it is you have been trying to profit with.
The OP must be new to mmo's Greed has been the way since mmo's started. And it helps keep the gold farmers and sellers in business. You have a choice on how you make ec. You can grind ec for an hour and maybe make 10 mil. Or go to a gold selling site and for 10 bucks buy 100 mil. 10 bucks is 2 beers at the local pub. Because of the prices on the exchange i'm sure the gold sellers are doing great business off this game. Of course no one would ever admit to doing it.
their prices are seemingly quite good. 10 bucks can get you a lockbox/lobi ship with some money left over. its kinda crazy
I bet OP has several hundred million ec stockpiled hoping to make his EC worth more this way.
Think about it, if this change goes live the people with hundreds of million ec will be able to instantly buy everything on the exchange.
Ofc EC gains will be nerfed into the ground (selling to vendor) so people who don't have ec will have it harder to make ec.
So no, this is a bad idea. The only issue I have is that the EC nerf from a while ago has had 0 effect on the price of items. Probably because a lot of people have insane amounts of ec stockpiled. Items should have their sell value increased by around 50% again tbh.
Prices are only as high as the market will bear. Also, remember that the price of anything is how much someone is willing to pay for it.
Well, another aspect seems to be that some folks "store" items on the exchange at ridiculous prices. Akin to the way we used "Storage vendors" in Star Wars: Galaxies for our resources....just price them at 99,999,999....which, until the end days of the game was "usually" way above any market value....
Then there's always the "stupidity" listing of an item at a high price just to see who's not shopping and buys the first one they see.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Greedy ****** everyone of you. You talk about how you make millions of EC but never go in to great detail about how or what you do to get millions. DON"T say you not rich by any mean or whatever you say just **** off the OP is right and this go for every game this need be done not saying at 20k maybe at most 50m for the more high end stuff.
Arrgg .....
It's the same attitude thats always present with these sort of posts. Everyone just wants stuff handing to them on a plate. If you want I'll take you through my routine which nets me any where from 100 to 500mil per month. I'll extend the invitation to join me to OP as well.
I would rather take Ship Upgrades having a minimum price limit at 15 million EC, Fleet Modules having a minimum of 10 million, and Master Keys restricted to no LOWER than 2.5 Million.
Why you ask?
So that Cryptic and spenders can make more money. Spenders buy high value items and sell them for EC instead of buying from Gold Sellers. Cryptic retains more money. And everyone but the lazy profit; the only restriction is time (time to run queues for stuff to sell, time to refine Dil, time to gain free Zen, time to save EC, time to max R&D and craft/sell Upgrades, etc).
I bet OP has several hundred million ec stockpiled hoping to make his EC worth more this way.
Think about it, if this change goes live the people with hundreds of million ec will be able to instantly buy everything on the exchange.
Ofc EC gains will be nerfed into the ground (selling to vendor) so people who don't have ec will have it harder to make ec.
So no, this is a bad idea. The only issue I have is that the EC nerf from a while ago has had 0 effect on the price of items. Probably because a lot of people have insane amounts of ec stockpiled. Items should have their sell value increased by around 50% again tbh.
Actually it would just drive anything selling for more than 20k off the exchange and into the private trade channels. EC's comparitve worth to item price is based on scarcity of the item in the market and the difficulty and expeditures in acquiring it from source compared to the easy of obtaining EC...... placing an artificial cap on a trade channel does not devalue items, it just drives them off the exchange and into private transaction channels.
While I agree that I see no current need for a market cap, it's not a leftist idea. Even Adam Smith and other major conservative economic influences concur that some level of regulation of economies is essential. It's just a common advertising gimmick promoted by a few greedy individuals that completely unregulated markets are either capitalism or healthy.
A careful and thorough read of history is very informative.
Exactly my thoughts at that stupid leftist statement. Even the conservative forefathers (of the USA) knew the dangers of letting the markets get out of hand and the banks take over everything without any oversight whatsoever. smh some people yeah know. sigh
I agree with OP Virtual games do not in any way reflect real marketing so yes they need more controls not less in order for them to function properly. Some of these items should absolutely NOT be 14-15 million EC it's outrageous some of these prices. And the idiots who support keeping it this way A: either don't know anything at all about economics or B: Are the greedy TRIBBLE who are channeling this kind of Ayn Rand "let's try to make selfishness and greed a moral stance" nonsense that we're seeing in these economies. It didn't work in real life it's definitely not going to work virtually.
If you cant afford it, dont buy it. Easy as it is. Nothing so pricy is needed to play.
+1 here. I got all my lockbox ships via exchange and I had zero problems getting ec to pay for them.
All items posted on exchange are obtainable for lowliest f2p player. Stop whining and get to work. The fact that you feel entitled to have an item does not mean you will be handed one for free.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
+1 here. I got all my lockbox ships via exchange and I had zero problems getting ec to pay for them.
All items posted on exchange are obtainable for lowliest f2p player. Stop whining and get to work. The fact that you feel entitled to have an item does not mean you will be handed one for free.
Indeed, this is the problem that those ******** about exchange prices on items and how they are "not worth the price" do not get.... it takes an amount of RL money or a certain number of in game resources to acquire these items. When someone is selling a ship upgrade token, they are selling a value of about 13-14 days worth of refined dilithium. The OP is arguing capping this off so that an item which takes 14 days worth of work (or a zen puchase with RL money) to a value which is less that what one can obtain for 10 minutes worth of game play. There really is no argument for the OP's position.... it is fundamentally and intrinsically wrong.
Besides, we already have a cap in the exchange.... 500mil I see no reason for it to be lower. If one thinks the EC price is too much, then grind out the dil to acquire the items oneself.... if ones argument that that is too much one has pretty much defeated ones own argument.
20k lol you insult me so somone opens up 200 lock boxes and gets a ship to sell and you expect them to sell it for 20k. get a dose of reality. you coould spend $200 to open those lock boxes an d maybe get your ship or grind out enough to ec and dil through time to get the same thing and you expect to have people sell it to you for pennies on the dollar. I suppose you expect someone to give you a house to live in and provide you with a job that pays $2k / hour. It would be one thing if you could get the ship for 20 min of grinding and in that case i would say you sir have already wasted 5 min whining about the exchange get to work and earn what you want or open your wallet and buy it.
Actually it would just drive anything selling for more than 20k off the exchange and into the private trade channels. EC's comparitve worth to item price is based on scarcity of the item in the market and the difficulty and expeditures in acquiring it from source compared to the easy of obtaining EC...... placing an artificial cap on a trade channel does not devalue items, it just drives them off the exchange and into private transaction channels.
I agree, and I am amazed at the opinions expressed by some members. Putting a cap of 20K on the Exchange would merely destroy it. Members would just set up "Black Market Channels" to do their business. Cryptic would have to shut down all of those chat channels to try to control trade, which would drive it even further underground. Items that people want would cost even more, due to free trade being stifled. You only have to look at Prohibition for a reasonable example.
The only thing that would work is if Cryptic actually SOLD these items at a fixed cost. Then the Exchange would become irrelevant, though it would cause other problems (such as the game actually becoming "Pay to Win").
A cap of 20,000 EC would simply ensure that no one ever sold anything of value in the exchange. They would simply do it over chat instead. So you still wouldn't get your ship upgrade tokens or consoles.
I gotta agree with this...heck it would make things worse.
I mean think about it for a moment OP, what happens if people can't go to the exchange and see so and so crafted console going for lets say 45 million EC...someone could end up paying 50...60...70 million EC for the same console only because one person may be the only person trying to sell one at the moment.
Greed is a part of human nature for many...good luck eliminating that...especially when you have so many greedy Feds just demanding they get everything good that other factions have...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
A wise Ferengi once said something in the lines of: "Love is fleeting but greed is eternal".
Like above poster said, you can't eliminate human nature. Also, very high prices create elitism, and many people love that too, being part of the few elite.
I agree with what some people said that capping it won't help and just drive these items underground. As much as I hate insane prices on some stuff, the alternative would be even worse...
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
I think everything tradeable on the Exchange needs an EC value, and prices need to be capped at 100X the retailer value of said item.
This would mean people would stop charging, for example, 10 Million for a Rare Mk VIII Console worth 18k EC. That kind of thing is ridiculous.
And let me say, as someone who has recently come back to the game, equipping a new toon as you level in anything but odd mark common vendor-sold gear is really expensive, at T3 I was spending 200k+ EC, just for uncommon even mark for a single ship.
If I hadn't come back to a 15k Zen balance from my LTS Stipend and bought a few cash shop items and hocked them on the exchange for millions, I'd have been up &%#$ River without a paddle.
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
Spot on. Anybody who is spouting this nonsense on the forums is running about a dozen in-game market schemes for making millions. They will always claim it is easy to earn millions but never reveal their strategies. However, capping prices that severely will make it tough for even average players to make a decent EC living.
The main reason successful MMO Merchants keep their strategies to themselves is because the more people that know the details the less profit can be earned.
That said, I and most of the successful merchants I know are usually more than happy to help someone learn to earn if they ask personally and nicely. I will in fact let you in on the most important bit of information all successful merchants know:
Find something you can create or generate through farming that is in high demand with low supply and fill the gap. Bear in mind that you may need to put some effort and time into setting yourself up for success.
Examples:
1. One of the best EC earning tools atm is crafting and selling Tech Upgrades. Some of us anticipated this and put a lot of time and resources into leveling our crafting skills to be able to take advantage of this.
2. I made quite a bit of EC before I started crafting by running Tal Shiar Command Codes and selling the DOFFs. To be successful at this I first had to farm enough EC the hard way to purchase the ideal combination of DOFFs to run the mission.
Hope that helps. Directing vitriolic comments at successful merchants is not the way to get help learning the keys to success. Try asking nicely IN GAME and you might be surprised at the results. In order to sell my high priced items, someone else needs to have the EC to buy them. IN that way it's advantageous to me to help people learn.
I think everything tradeable on the Exchange needs an EC value, and prices need to be capped at 100X the retailer value of said item.
This would mean people would stop charging, for example, 10 Million for a Rare Mk VIII Console worth 18k EC. That kind of thing is ridiculous.
And let me say, as someone who has recently come back to the game, equipping a new toon as you level in anything but odd mark common vendor-sold gear is really expensive, at T3 I was spending 200k+ EC, just for uncommon even mark for a single ship.
If I hadn't come back to a 15k Zen balance from my LTS Stipend and bought a few cash shop items and hocked them on the exchange for millions, I'd have been up &%#$ River without a paddle.
items are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. if the majority of players are willing to pay more than what you can afford then thats a personal problem YOU need to deal with, no one else
While I agree that I see no current need for a market cap, it's not a leftist idea. Even Adam Smith and other major conservative economic influences concur that some level of regulation of economies is essential. It's just a common advertising gimmick promoted by a few greedy individuals that completely unregulated markets are either capitalism or healthy.
A careful and thorough read of history is very informative.
OMG! Its amazing that someone actually knows something about History and Economics. And I don't see a need for a "Market Cap" either. There are other things that the Devs could do to help enhance the supply and demand balance (and hence the prices) but they have consistently chosen not to do so... Then again that might be a good thing when one considers the quality of some of there "other coding"!! :rolleyes:
In any situation like this there will be some people who sell things for nothing and others who will buy stuff just to sell it again at its maximum possible price.
I think everything tradeable on the Exchange needs an EC value, and prices need to be capped at 100X the retailer value of said item.
This would mean people would stop charging, for example, 10 Million for a Rare Mk VIII Console worth 18k EC. That kind of thing is ridiculous.
And let me say, as someone who has recently come back to the game, equipping a new toon as you level in anything but odd mark common vendor-sold gear is really expensive, at T3 I was spending 200k+ EC, just for uncommon even mark for a single ship.
If I hadn't come back to a 15k Zen balance from my LTS Stipend and bought a few cash shop items and hocked them on the exchange for millions, I'd have been up &%#$ River without a paddle.
You are still missing the point. If the exchange has a cap, most valuable/pricey items will be traded off the exchange. Does not matter how high the cap is. You can sell items for basically any value anyway, it just becomes "4 100 million ships and 400 million ec" in personal trade, for example - with exchange price of the cheaper ship used to measured it's value". Humanity will always find the way.
On the other hand, I don't understand why you haven't noticed WHY some items are ridiculously overpriced - the mentioned mk 8 console being a good example. Some people use exchange for money transfers (if they don't have access to account bank, or to trade ec between multiple accounts). They do it by posting a cheap item at outrageous price, thus ensuring that noone else will buy. If it gets sold, though, its unintended reward for the poster.
Another thing is people using exchange as their spare items locker - they don't have any more bank space so they post items at insane prices and repost them when the sale expires.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Comments
Putting the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship in the store would seriously dent the greed on the Exchange for example.
Get-rich-quick schemes do not exist unless you do it by selling C-Store items. Instead, those of us with our billion(s) worked hard to earn it. Need a little help? Here is a spreadsheet (easy to use) that might work for you if you put in the time and effort: http://bit.ly/STOECGenerator
Also, being rich does not mean a person is greedy. So I made my fortune selling TR-116Bs, but I have given away (free!) almost as many rifles as I sold. I doubt you could say the same about whatever it is you have been trying to profit with.
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
their prices are seemingly quite good. 10 bucks can get you a lockbox/lobi ship with some money left over. its kinda crazy
Think about it, if this change goes live the people with hundreds of million ec will be able to instantly buy everything on the exchange.
Ofc EC gains will be nerfed into the ground (selling to vendor) so people who don't have ec will have it harder to make ec.
So no, this is a bad idea. The only issue I have is that the EC nerf from a while ago has had 0 effect on the price of items. Probably because a lot of people have insane amounts of ec stockpiled. Items should have their sell value increased by around 50% again tbh.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Well, another aspect seems to be that some folks "store" items on the exchange at ridiculous prices. Akin to the way we used "Storage vendors" in Star Wars: Galaxies for our resources....just price them at 99,999,999....which, until the end days of the game was "usually" way above any market value....
Then there's always the "stupidity" listing of an item at a high price just to see who's not shopping and buys the first one they see.
Working an 8-hour shift + 3 hours of commuting every day never stopped me.
Joined January 2009
It's the same attitude thats always present with these sort of posts. Everyone just wants stuff handing to them on a plate. If you want I'll take you through my routine which nets me any where from 100 to 500mil per month. I'll extend the invitation to join me to OP as well.
Why you ask?
So that Cryptic and spenders can make more money. Spenders buy high value items and sell them for EC instead of buying from Gold Sellers. Cryptic retains more money. And everyone but the lazy profit; the only restriction is time (time to run queues for stuff to sell, time to refine Dil, time to gain free Zen, time to save EC, time to max R&D and craft/sell Upgrades, etc).
If you have trouble understanding, re-read as many times as you believe is necessary to grasp the concept.
How do you find time to play STO?
Get back to work in the Beet fields, Comrade!
so a max price of 200 Mio whould be fine all other should be like it is now.
Or Cryptic puts it for 2000 Zen in the Zenstore.
Subscribed For: 4 years 5 months 20 days at 26.10.2014
Actually it would just drive anything selling for more than 20k off the exchange and into the private trade channels. EC's comparitve worth to item price is based on scarcity of the item in the market and the difficulty and expeditures in acquiring it from source compared to the easy of obtaining EC...... placing an artificial cap on a trade channel does not devalue items, it just drives them off the exchange and into private transaction channels.
Exactly my thoughts at that stupid leftist statement. Even the conservative forefathers (of the USA) knew the dangers of letting the markets get out of hand and the banks take over everything without any oversight whatsoever. smh some people yeah know. sigh
I agree with OP Virtual games do not in any way reflect real marketing so yes they need more controls not less in order for them to function properly. Some of these items should absolutely NOT be 14-15 million EC it's outrageous some of these prices. And the idiots who support keeping it this way A: either don't know anything at all about economics or B: Are the greedy TRIBBLE who are channeling this kind of Ayn Rand "let's try to make selfishness and greed a moral stance" nonsense that we're seeing in these economies. It didn't work in real life it's definitely not going to work virtually.
If you cant afford it, dont buy it. Easy as it is. Nothing so pricy is needed to play.
+1 here. I got all my lockbox ships via exchange and I had zero problems getting ec to pay for them.
All items posted on exchange are obtainable for lowliest f2p player. Stop whining and get to work. The fact that you feel entitled to have an item does not mean you will be handed one for free.
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Indeed, this is the problem that those ******** about exchange prices on items and how they are "not worth the price" do not get.... it takes an amount of RL money or a certain number of in game resources to acquire these items. When someone is selling a ship upgrade token, they are selling a value of about 13-14 days worth of refined dilithium. The OP is arguing capping this off so that an item which takes 14 days worth of work (or a zen puchase with RL money) to a value which is less that what one can obtain for 10 minutes worth of game play. There really is no argument for the OP's position.... it is fundamentally and intrinsically wrong.
Besides, we already have a cap in the exchange.... 500mil I see no reason for it to be lower. If one thinks the EC price is too much, then grind out the dil to acquire the items oneself.... if ones argument that that is too much one has pretty much defeated ones own argument.
I agree, and I am amazed at the opinions expressed by some members. Putting a cap of 20K on the Exchange would merely destroy it. Members would just set up "Black Market Channels" to do their business. Cryptic would have to shut down all of those chat channels to try to control trade, which would drive it even further underground. Items that people want would cost even more, due to free trade being stifled. You only have to look at Prohibition for a reasonable example.
The only thing that would work is if Cryptic actually SOLD these items at a fixed cost. Then the Exchange would become irrelevant, though it would cause other problems (such as the game actually becoming "Pay to Win").
I gotta agree with this...heck it would make things worse.
I mean think about it for a moment OP, what happens if people can't go to the exchange and see so and so crafted console going for lets say 45 million EC...someone could end up paying 50...60...70 million EC for the same console only because one person may be the only person trying to sell one at the moment.
Greed is a part of human nature for many...good luck eliminating that...especially when you have so many greedy Feds just demanding they get everything good that other factions have...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrdM9BlEyTE
Being a smuggler is hard!
Like above poster said, you can't eliminate human nature. Also, very high prices create elitism, and many people love that too, being part of the few elite.
I agree with what some people said that capping it won't help and just drive these items underground. As much as I hate insane prices on some stuff, the alternative would be even worse...
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
This would mean people would stop charging, for example, 10 Million for a Rare Mk VIII Console worth 18k EC. That kind of thing is ridiculous.
And let me say, as someone who has recently come back to the game, equipping a new toon as you level in anything but odd mark common vendor-sold gear is really expensive, at T3 I was spending 200k+ EC, just for uncommon even mark for a single ship.
If I hadn't come back to a 15k Zen balance from my LTS Stipend and bought a few cash shop items and hocked them on the exchange for millions, I'd have been up &%#$ River without a paddle.
Almost called it.
The main reason successful MMO Merchants keep their strategies to themselves is because the more people that know the details the less profit can be earned.
That said, I and most of the successful merchants I know are usually more than happy to help someone learn to earn if they ask personally and nicely. I will in fact let you in on the most important bit of information all successful merchants know:
Find something you can create or generate through farming that is in high demand with low supply and fill the gap. Bear in mind that you may need to put some effort and time into setting yourself up for success.
Examples:
1. One of the best EC earning tools atm is crafting and selling Tech Upgrades. Some of us anticipated this and put a lot of time and resources into leveling our crafting skills to be able to take advantage of this.
2. I made quite a bit of EC before I started crafting by running Tal Shiar Command Codes and selling the DOFFs. To be successful at this I first had to farm enough EC the hard way to purchase the ideal combination of DOFFs to run the mission.
Hope that helps. Directing vitriolic comments at successful merchants is not the way to get help learning the keys to success. Try asking nicely IN GAME and you might be surprised at the results. In order to sell my high priced items, someone else needs to have the EC to buy them. IN that way it's advantageous to me to help people learn.
items are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. if the majority of players are willing to pay more than what you can afford then thats a personal problem YOU need to deal with, no one else
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
OMG! Its amazing that someone actually knows something about History and Economics. And I don't see a need for a "Market Cap" either. There are other things that the Devs could do to help enhance the supply and demand balance (and hence the prices) but they have consistently chosen not to do so... Then again that might be a good thing when one considers the quality of some of there "other coding"!! :rolleyes:
In any situation like this there will be some people who sell things for nothing and others who will buy stuff just to sell it again at its maximum possible price.
You are still missing the point. If the exchange has a cap, most valuable/pricey items will be traded off the exchange. Does not matter how high the cap is. You can sell items for basically any value anyway, it just becomes "4 100 million ships and 400 million ec" in personal trade, for example - with exchange price of the cheaper ship used to measured it's value". Humanity will always find the way.
On the other hand, I don't understand why you haven't noticed WHY some items are ridiculously overpriced - the mentioned mk 8 console being a good example. Some people use exchange for money transfers (if they don't have access to account bank, or to trade ec between multiple accounts). They do it by posting a cheap item at outrageous price, thus ensuring that noone else will buy. If it gets sold, though, its unintended reward for the poster.
Another thing is people using exchange as their spare items locker - they don't have any more bank space so they post items at insane prices and repost them when the sale expires.
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"