Is the threshold on Kinetic Magnet too low?

virusdancer

So I'm looking at the info on Kinetic Magnet I and...well:

Fragile: Effect ends prematurely after Foe takes 10,000 Kinetic Damage.

I'd definitely say that "ends prematurely" and "Fragile" come to mind with such a small amount of Kinetic damage.

edit: It's 15k for KM2...so what, 20k for KM3?

szerontzur

I think the main consideration for the current caps is.. PvP.

For PvE, with the super-inflated health numbers? Yes, it's very low(I can break 20k in a single torpedo very easily).

Ideally, I'd like to see it be a percentage based thing(40/50/60% max hull), but.. I can only imagine how messy something like that would probably be to try to implement.

snowpig74

virusdancer wrote: »

So I'm looking at the info on Kinetic Magnet I and...well:

Fragile: Effect ends prematurely after Foe takes 10,000 Kinetic Damage.

I'd definitely say that "ends prematurely" and "Fragile" come to mind with such a small amount of Kinetic damage.

edit: It's 15k for KM2...so what, 20k for KM3?

The whole idea of making it "fragile", when its main effect is to draw all surrounding projectiles to the target, is a bit ... pointless?

Just compare to "gravitic anchor" which is more useful despite of its long cooldown :rolleyes:

borticuscryptic

Yes, the current thresholds are quite low.

We're currently considering upping them to 20k, 30k, 40k.

PvP isn't a large concern with this ability, since players that have it inflicted upon them have the option to cleanse it.

majortiraomega

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Yes, the current thresholds are quite low.

We're currently considering upping them to 20k, 30k, 40k.

PvP isn't a large concern with this ability, since players that have it inflicted upon them have the option to cleanse it.

I want to see a Tactical cube get hit with kinetic magnet right as it launches a super buffed invisa torp...

virusdancer

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Yes, the current thresholds are quite low.

We're currently considering upping them to 20k, 30k, 40k.

PvP isn't a large concern with this ability, since players that have it inflicted upon them have the option to cleanse it.

Thanks, Bort...was picturing the Vaadwaur on Elite dropping out their Trics.

snowpig74

Problem with these threshold-skills is, that in situations where several players are shooting at a target, the threshold is reached far too quick for the skill to make an effect.
Therefore i'd suggest either to remove the threshold (and check/modify the up-time of the skill) or only count the damage the player does who applied the skill.

darkknightucf

snowpig74 wrote: »

Problem with these threshold-skills is, that in situations where several players are shooting at a target, the threshold is reached far too quick for the skill to make an effect.
Therefore i'd suggest either to remove the threshold (and check/modify the up-time of the skill) or only count the damage the player does who applied the skill.

I like this idea. Has anything been done w/ Kinetic Magnet recently?

mrspidey2

majortiraomega wrote: »

I want to see a Tactical cube get hit with kinetic magnet right as it launches a super buffed invisa torp...

Probably as much fun as using KM on a D'deridex that has just launched its heavy plasma volley.

On that note: This seems bugged a bit. Sometimes the heavy plasma torps just hover around the D'deridex until KM has worn off.

captainobvious09

I am starting to think Kinetic Magnet is bugged, once I stopped using it I went from 12k on my torp boat to nearly 16k with modest gear, and I even noticed running with other torp boats, their damage was lower than it should have been (Marshal@Odenknight only did 19k and he usually does over 30k +)

..

darkknightucf

captainobvious09 wrote: »

I am starting to think Kinetic Magnet is bugged, once I stopped using it I went from 12k on my torp boat to nearly 16k with modest gear, and I even noticed running with other torp boats, their damage was lower than it should have been (Marshal@Odenknight only did 19k and he usually does over 30k +)

..

There are many factors that contributed to that 19K run, so we'd have to set up a test run w/ the same group every 1/2 hour for as long as we can stand it and run the experiment for a few days. If KM does indeed lower damage, I'll be a little bit peeved I want my 700K Max-1, damnit!

baelogventure

Way too low.

Needs buff to 1mil damage so it'll take Odenknight 2 torps to use it up.

jarvisandalfred

baelogventure wrote: »

Way too low.

Needs buff to 1mil damage so it'll take Odenknight 2 torps to use it up.

Yeah, a 10k threshold is pretty stupidly low. I've got a weak-sauce torp boat, nothing near marshall's monstrosity, and I'm blowing past the threshold with MK XII torps in a Nebula.

psych2l

I also think this ability is wasted because of this arbitrary fragility which no other ability shares I might add. Is atk pattern beta fragile? No, and everyone in the party can make use of the extra damage this one ability gives, in addition to adding their own stack to it. Lets not forget its limited to kinetic dmg resist unlike attack pattern beta, delta, ionic turbulence which debuffs ALL resists. Don't you think you're holding back this ability a bit much? As it is implemented now, it's as useful as mask energy signature and serves as a trap ability for unaware players. Just treat it as an open debuff like all the others and stop making it more complicated than it has to be.

gerwalk0769

I thought that 10k was low when I first read the power description. I've have single torpedoes crit hit for over that amount, and spreads sometimes tops 10k.

jarvisandalfred

baelogventure wrote: »

Way too low.

Needs buff to 1mil damage so it'll take Odenknight 2 torps to use it up.

This isn't a joke, folks.

Marshall's max one hit is: 651,721 (High Yield Tricobalt Explosion III), and he says that modifiers aren't even working on that torp. Dude's broken 500k hits with Grav torp and the PeP torp as well, and I suspect his Neutronic isn't far behind. And yet the threshold on Kinetic Magnet is 10k? I fail to see the point.

darkknightucf

jarvisandalfred wrote: »

This isn't a joke, folks.

Marshall's max one hit is: 651,721 (High Yield Tricobalt Explosion III), and he says that modifiers aren't even working on that torp. Dude's broken 500k hits with Grav torp and the PeP torp as well, and I suspect his Neutronic isn't far behind. And yet the threshold on Kinetic Magnet is 10k? I fail to see the point.

Now it's:
Max. One-Hit: 667,238 (Heavy Temporal Disruption III) <--- Crit vs Tac Cube

The point is that the power isn't just so underwhelming for an Intel power, it's so underwhelming for a Command power that's watered down and pre-nerfed to the ground. I am sure that if my alt with two green torpedo Tac consoles (and maybe 3 RCS consoles) using CF3 can hit for 35K and crit for 80K w/ an Enh Bio-Molecular torpedo, the below average player with a torp will use up KM in 2 hits.....

Initially, I ignored this problem because I'm intentionally not flying a T6 Intel ship on my main (trying to set the records in a Defiant). Thanks to these guys here, I had a closer look at it and just went, "wow". As Psy put it, where's the limitations on the other debuffs? Take the outliers out of the picture and then ask yourself, "who really gets full use of this?" Even with the new toy that is the AP-Spirit Bomb (Crystalline Antiproton thingie), the exception was made for the AP-SB to be used by Concentrate Firepower. I suspect that, once this weapon becomes popular enough, Kinetic Magnet will see a significant boost to its threshold, or the cap will be removed entirely.

Meanwhile, at least two existing kinetic weapons do NOT work with Concentrate Firepower, but the AP-SB gets to benefit from a torpedo ability.....

I knew playing a torpedo ship was playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck was stacked against kinetics.

virusdancer

darkknightucf wrote: »

I knew playing a torpedo ship was playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck was stacked against kinetics.

Sometimes I regret deleting my original Willard the Rat (KDF-aligned Reman Sci in a Fleet T'varo) and the clump 'n thump fun I'd have with him.

GW -> Destabilized Plasma -> Hargh'peng -> HY E-Bio -> TS Grav -> Breen Cluster -> DPB Photons -> HY Temporal

(3rd aft slot was taken up by the Experimental Proton Weapon for the 3pc bonus)

I think about some of the stuff from the Intel Specialization and other stuff that came along...oh well.

Heh, I've still run my current Willard the Rat (Fed-aligned Klingon Sci in a Geneva CBC) in a clump 'n thump torp build; but it's obviously not the same as doing it with a "Rom" from a T'varo...no EBC bonus, no Destablized Plasma, no Singularity Jump (though I've used the Trajector Jump to escape getting caught in the explostions), etc, etc, etc.

But I'm not an "efficient" guy...I'm more like a kid watching the cool explosions, regardless of how effective they are...heh.

rmy1081

virusdancer wrote: »

Sometimes I regret deleting my original Willard the Rat (KDF-aligned Reman Sci in a Fleet T'varo) and the clump 'n thump fun I'd have with him.

GW -> Destabilized Plasma -> Hargh'peng -> HY E-Bio -> TS Grav -> Breen Cluster -> DPB Photons -> HY Temporal

(3rd aft slot was taken up by the Experimental Proton Weapon for the 3pc bonus)

I think about some of the stuff from the Intel Specialization and other stuff that came along...oh well.

Heh, I've still run my current Willard the Rat (Fed-aligned Klingon Sci in a Geneva CBC) in a clump 'n thump torp build; but it's obviously not the same as doing it with a "Rom" from a T'varo...no EBC bonus, no Destablized Plasma, no Singularity Jump (though I've used the Trajector Jump to escape getting caught in the explostions), etc, etc, etc.

But I'm not an "efficient" guy...I'm more like a kid watching the cool explosions, regardless of how effective they are...heh.

yeah I remember in kerrat once I was like,

torpedoes? what a noob...
OK, that one hurt a little but I can just heal over it.
more torpedoes? BFI
OMG there's still more! BFI and heals are still on cool down NO! *ship explodes*

Also, on a tangent, between All Hands on Deck and Photonic Capacitor, photonic fleet has a mighty small cool down.

darkknightucf

rmy1081 wrote: »

yeah I remember in kerrat once I was like,

torpedoes? what a noob...
OK, that one hurt a little but I can just heal over it.
more torpedoes? BFI
OMG there's still more! BFI and heals are still on cool down NO! *ship explodes*

Also, on a tangent, between All Hands on Deck and Photonic Capacitor, photonic fleet has a mighty small cool down.

The moment where a BO proc gets all three DOffs just before a HY3 Bio + HY1 Grav slams into your target...

FYI, AHOD is OP for Sci. Just saying.

**EDIT: Virus.. ouch! Deleting a toon? OUCH! How much do you regret that now?

Unknown

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lordsteve1

I'd have to agree a time limit makes more sense than a threshold. Most decent torps can be made to hit harder in one shot than the entire threshold allows, therefore making the skill useless. Add in the fact that in many situations you'll have anything up to 5+ players spamming torps at a target, that limit is gone in seconds.

Have it so the time increase depending on the rank of the skill.

darkknightucf

Going to test and see if KM is bugged for torps or not.