This is the first time in an update I've seen ingame reactions so bad. Some people doom always, but every single fleet member is negative on this, almost all have talked about other games all of a sudden.
Are we at the tipping point? The endless boring grind is going to throw people out? The old players leave enmass and new players find an emptier world?
When I look at what DR is.. or more appropiately, what it isn't, I get really frustrated. What a massive waste of resources and developer time for such low quality work. Whatever design document they are working off is has to be a mess, the acceptance of episodes with gapping holes and non-sensical actions and scenes shouldn't be tolerated.
What gets really annoying is the whole design is just based on cryptic's greed, there is nothing fun about what they introduced, just more power creep, more upgrades, more spending money, more grind.
There is a mode for the none casuals...it's called elite.
Advanced is suppose to be the middle ground between fluffy bunny casual and hard core elites.
The problem is that the difference between normal and advanced is an extra 120% (so more then double).
The difference between advanced and elite is an extra 13%.
So instead of 3 difficulies, we have fluffy bunny, hard core and just a SMIDGE more hard core.
And that is a problem. It was pointed out in tribble...after like one day of testing. They had PLENTY of time to fix this before launch. And yes, it is a quick fix...if it isn't then their engine is utterly borked and they need a new one before they do ANYTHING else.
Its more than 120%, the difference between normal and advanced is closer to 160%.
The one good thing is that most of us on tribble who could do it, and here too on live, are saying more HP is not harder its just less fun.
So, I predict they will next week or the week after tone down HP scaling and tone up NPC powers on advanced. Even gecko already said he thinks advanced needs to be tuned down. It seems to me like he usually pretends to listen but has already made up his mind.
It seems to me like he usually pretends to listen but has already made up his mind.
Its designed to be like this, so if its changed at all it will only be small tweaks
Its like how many pages of feedback on the T5-U upgrades and nothing was changed at all, how many people said Romulan Operative is OP and it was never tweaked, how many times have people asked for ensign uni slot on the old T5 cstore and fleet ships, and on and on. There's only one opinion that counts, all other feedback is > /dev/null
Waited to start the upgrade system until the expansion launched. Every grind up until now has felt somewhat reasonable. I have been logging in pretty much every day to advance crafting on my main toon and advance it a to an extent on my alts. Only one school at level 15 so far.
Looking at the time, money and resources to craft superior upgrades, and the time and dilithium to actually upgrade, it all seems incredibly daunting. Spread across several characters each with a few builds, I can't imagine I will ever get very far even ponying up zen which I would rather spend elsewhere. Even then, the seemingly endless roadblocks and wait times still make that a chore. Definitely not an alt friendly update.
I would prefer a more straightforward system. Get a tech upgrade, spend this much dilithium, wait this amount for your upgraded item. It worked for MKX-XII before.
Play through the story episodes and then take a break to enjoy other games for a few months. They will nerf these changes hard if they lose enough players, after which you can give it a shot again.
Yeah ive been getting feedback from another post on this forum for F2P one character players. Though the advice is good its jut too much.. for now. Great story stuff... will finish that and come back later.
This is the first time in an update I've seen ingame reactions so bad. Some people doom always, but every single fleet member is negative on this, almost all have talked about other games all of a sudden.
Are we at the tipping point? The endless boring grind is going to throw people out? The old players leave enmass and new players find an emptier world?
Please. I've been here since near the beginning of Season 8. We're not at a tipping point. This is just the same rage and anger that's been going on since the game began. Using my example, people have left (or threatened to leave) over:
* Dinosaurs with fricken' lasers
* Changed passives
* Grinding for ships
* One singular Featured Episode and a Battlezone
* Changes to Crafting.
And now, we can add:
* Delta Rising as a whole.
You're dealing with the perfect storm of Star Trek fans, MMO fans and F2P fans. There will never be a completely happy person and if there is, they usually regret it when they speak up.
This is the first time in an update I've seen ingame reactions so bad. Some people doom always, but every single fleet member is negative on this, almost all have talked about other games all of a sudden.
Are we at the tipping point?
Same here, Cryptics greed is starting to catch up with them. And it must be clear now to all, it IS greed.
Its designed to be like this, so if its changed at all it will only be small tweaks
Its like how many pages of feedback on the T5-U upgrades and nothing was changed at all, how many people said Romulan Operative is OP and it was never tweaked, how many times have people asked for ensign uni slot on the old T5 cstore and fleet ships, and on and on. There's only one opinion that counts, all other feedback is > /dev/null
Like I said, he's already made up his mind he's just pretending to listen.
However, to use an analogy, if you're going to hit me in the head with a bat, and I grab it on the wind up compared to while its streaking toward me, it takes much less effort to stop the blow. The right small change at the right time could be enough.
Also, every day people are getting stronger. Even on tribble it took two weeks to beat advanced with optionals. Every day of delay, gets better data on what to fix. I dunno if he cares or is looking, but I can hope.
My biggest concern is the scaling HP in solo story missions. That has got to get a major change. There may be a tweak that makes enough difference to turn the advanced mode into a widely enjoyed experience. The scaling HP needs a huge Nerf.
I like DR even though i wasn´t quite happy as i heard about the upgrade system and the Designtn of the Intel schips. Guess what. i only use my Eclipse now. But i hope that we get Fleet ships very soon.
And the mentioned Upgrade system is still something i hate. Why? because thre are no other good Mk XIV items in the game. Some rare Mk XII but those are worse than my Mk XII fleet gear.
So i have to buy a Mk XII item (from the Rep. System ) and then still have to upgrade it so that in the End it costs me more than if i had bought the Item as Mk XII i think . Upgrading would be a good method for every other Item like Mission rewards but not for the Rep. System and not for the fleet.
I like DR even though i wasn´t quite happy as i heard about the upgrade system and the Designtn of the Intel schips. Guess what. i only use my Eclipse now. But i hope that we get Fleet ships very soon.
And the mentioned Upgrade system is still something i hate. Why? because thre are no other good Mk XIV items in the game. Some rare Mk XII but those are worse than my Mk XII fleet gear.
So i have to buy a Mk XII item (from the Rep. System ) and then still have to upgrade it so that in the End it costs me more than if i had bought the Item as Mk XII i think . Upgrading would be a good method for every other Item like Mission rewards but not for the Rep. System and not for the fleet.
Edit to be easier to read the bottom line:
Buy at fleet 12 vs fleet 11 and upgrade
Difference is pay an extra 20k fleet credits and 6k dil for fleet 12 vs
2-3 mil ec and save 3k dil for fleet 11 and upgrade
/end edit. Math/explanation below
The advantage varies. Rep gear often there's no choice for Mk 10 or 11 so m12 is the only choice.
Fleet weapons though, advanced 11 costs 10k fleet credits and 9k dil = about 20k dil assuming the 1:1 conversion. Elite fleet 12 costs 30k fleet credits and 15k dil = 45k dil.
You can upgrade from 11 to 12 for three (2.5 technically but you need the third) purple kits. That's only 3k dil plus the ec to buy the kits. Which varies from 650 to 1 mil each depending on time of day, and type of weapon (beam, cannon, torp, ground).
So, what is easier for you? 15k fleet credits and 6k dil for the fleet 12 weapon or 2-3mil ec and save 3k dil for the upgrade?
For me, having both options is easiest. Some days I get a lot of fleet, some days none but I sell a lot of stuff for ec. Etc. The choice is nice. But I'm good at ec earning, and that's a LOT of ec, it will stop many people.
One thing is, and this update seems to reinforce it...
STO doesn't seem to like people with multiple chars. With all the character bound stuff, it feels like I'd be better off (If I was doing rep or other things) working on that stuff ONLY for one char instead of having several chars doing different things.
If Lobi uniforms or ships were account bound, it'd tempt me more personally to work at getting them. Same with event stuff.
In the end, I'll finish the story missions, and log on to chat with friends, but I don't see myself doing STFs again.
Also the fact the new missions only reward XII for replaying instead of mark 13 is stupid. I could use old story missions to gear up with basic mark 12 gear to work for the really great mark 12 gear, but I can't do the same for 13?
Normal is fine, it's what happens in Advanced and Elite that got out of hand thanks to lazy "nightmare mode" programming. Only way to get dil now easy is with Geko's dinosaurs with freaking lazers on their heads.
Well, that doffing, and doing a bit of defera ground.
I have completely switched, to doing dailies only + doffing now really for my daily dilith.
So I'm a casual. I log in every few months, play for a couple weeks, and take another break.
STO is still for you then (you and hard-core grinders). I'd say STO is the worst for the moderate players. Play enough to want the 'best' but it'd take forever to get it.
Casuals know they'll not get EVERYTHING! so don't sweat it and the hard-core grinders are too crazy to care.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
I haven't done defera ground in like a year, maybe more...since way before it was changed from an hourly event to available all the time. It rewards decent dilithium now? I don't remember it being very time efficient. For me STFs were the most time efficient when I had little time to play (which is most of the time). I could get at least one STF run in on each of my four characters in about a half hour total, then I could go back to work or whatever.
I haven't done defera ground in like a year, maybe more...since way before it was changed from an hourly event to available all the time. It rewards decent dilithium now?
It gives some omega marks for each of the 4 "hard" missions, and you can convert those to dilithium, but its not a lot. It may give some dil too, I dont recall, I just convert some marks and click refine. Mostly do it for the fleet marks when I do it.
THIS All my yes. Cryptic is well known for cutting corners and purposely playing stupid when it comes to feedback.
greed has a way of showing its ugly head now and then. I have been here since STO beta way back when, I have seen it all but this is totally out there 3000 zen for ships 1000 for upgrade tokens etc. they will see more people leave and wonder why.
I take time off of game and come back being a lifetime member but now it seems the game has changed from being fun to being a pain to do too much grinding and less fun. We all have a right to voice out opinion etc., and Cryptic should really take notice and their practices before they loose anymore players.
This is the first time in an update I've seen ingame reactions so bad. Some people doom always, but every single fleet member is negative on this, almost all have talked about other games all of a sudden.
Are we at the tipping point? The endless boring grind is going to throw people out? The old players leave enmass and new players find an emptier world?
You know it's getting bad when you get in the game during prime time in the early to late evening US time and it's actually QUIET in zone chat on ESD. THAT really freaked me out, and tells me more than anything that people are leaving in droves. <shudder>
This is why I keep suggesting that they increase the time required to fulfill these missions. I've had a number of missions where we were doing well, but we just didn't have the time to finish off the mission. If it happened once, I'd be dismissive of the thought. But in 5 "normal" fights, we lost four of them because of this one issue.
One place I don't see this working well on Advanced though just setting the timer longer is Infected though. Since now on advanced it's insta fail if one of the borg balls gets to start healing the transformer. In most elite pugs before DR i'd say about 75% of the time or more people figure out or knew you had to concentrate fire on the transformer once it was able to be damaged to get it down before any of the spheres got close enough to it, and/or someone would hold the spheres in some way but even without them being held it was still doable if people were concentrating fire. Now in Advanced since everything has uber more HP's i'd say it fails 80-90% of the time in pugs even if everyone knows to concentrate fire on the transformer, even if someone does have something like Gravity Well or something else.
I feel your pain, OP, I play STO because it has always been an enjoyable "Trek fix" for my Trek addiction. Not anymore.
I usually hate it when players cry "NERF!" but that isn't the case this time.
I've been playing STO since before it was F2P and I know how to play this game, but I haven't successfully finished one single PVE queue on NORMAL difficulty since the launch of Delta Rising ... not ONE.
Forget about crazy hard Advanced or whatever the new Elite/Insane level will be ... I'm saying a seasoned player with nothing but mk XII, mk XIII, and mk XIV gear hasn't been able to beat a single stinking team PVE on the normal/newb/idiot level since the game was updated!!!
I'm not trying to be one of those jerk "DOOOM!!!" players who are constantly saying this game is finished, but this is a SERIOUS problem that needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY.
Um.. the only real difference in normal is the rewards and the fact several extra mobs have been added nothing more nothing less.
btw can I steal your banner? I love it.
I actually think it every time I play on my rommy tac.
It's not impossible...you just need one of the few cookie cutter DPS builds. Because those are the only ones who gets to have fun.
Yes and I pray this is sarcasm because I didn't join this game to have a ship loaded up exactly like the uber leet min/max build with all the same weapon types <although that part makes sense> and have my console slots loaded out the max with multiple copies of the same console just so I can destroy things ASAP because someone wants that to be the new normal.
I LIKE the fact you can tweak and modify your ship in different ways and play around with tons of different general and specialty consoles, and it makes me sad that some part of the new normal is "Ignore all the fun stuff, just load up everything exactly like this with everything geared toward one type of DPS and thinks will all go ok." <bleh> that shouldent even be something needed to do missions on the new Elite, and if it is then that's just a joke. What is the point of all the different console types if your only able to use about 10% of them to make sure your doing the max DPS at any one moment to survive a mission correctly?
there are certain things that need fixing in the game but that is no reason to stop playing, so the pve ques are broken but there is plenty more you can play, sure give the pve a miss till its fixed but you still want to earn dilithium to upgrade weapons.
there are far more ways to earn heaps of dilithium in game without even touching the pve ques, try things like aiding the deferi, epohh tagging, doff missions, dyson content and don't forget there is a dilithium weekend coming up.
don't expect to upgrade everything overnight but what you have now is ample for all the stuff in the game I have mentioned here and probably some I haven't and while you are earning dil you will also get valuable exp.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
You know it's getting bad when you get in the game during prime time in the early to late evening US time and it's actually QUIET in zone chat on ESD. THAT really freaked me out, and tells me more than anything that people are leaving in droves. <shudder>
go to the Delta Quadrant, and listen to zone chat in space. I think everyone just moved to the other side of the Galaxy....
go to the Delta Quadrant, and listen to zone chat in space. I think everyone just moved to the other side of the Galaxy....
My main concern is for the game. I'm hoping that the new content in the delta quadrant will keep everyone going until these queues are fixed. I hope to be playing for a very long time to come and am worried about the loss of players if they aren't fixed soon.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Comments
If you not going to spend 12 months re-buying all your old items with dil, then you going to run out of things to do real quick.
And in fact even faster than before now that all queue maps are removed from the game.
Are we at the tipping point? The endless boring grind is going to throw people out? The old players leave enmass and new players find an emptier world?
When I look at what DR is.. or more appropiately, what it isn't, I get really frustrated. What a massive waste of resources and developer time for such low quality work. Whatever design document they are working off is has to be a mess, the acceptance of episodes with gapping holes and non-sensical actions and scenes shouldn't be tolerated.
What gets really annoying is the whole design is just based on cryptic's greed, there is nothing fun about what they introduced, just more power creep, more upgrades, more spending money, more grind.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Its more than 120%, the difference between normal and advanced is closer to 160%.
The one good thing is that most of us on tribble who could do it, and here too on live, are saying more HP is not harder its just less fun.
So, I predict they will next week or the week after tone down HP scaling and tone up NPC powers on advanced. Even gecko already said he thinks advanced needs to be tuned down. It seems to me like he usually pretends to listen but has already made up his mind.
Its like how many pages of feedback on the T5-U upgrades and nothing was changed at all, how many people said Romulan Operative is OP and it was never tweaked, how many times have people asked for ensign uni slot on the old T5 cstore and fleet ships, and on and on. There's only one opinion that counts, all other feedback is > /dev/null
Looking at the time, money and resources to craft superior upgrades, and the time and dilithium to actually upgrade, it all seems incredibly daunting. Spread across several characters each with a few builds, I can't imagine I will ever get very far even ponying up zen which I would rather spend elsewhere. Even then, the seemingly endless roadblocks and wait times still make that a chore. Definitely not an alt friendly update.
I would prefer a more straightforward system. Get a tech upgrade, spend this much dilithium, wait this amount for your upgraded item. It worked for MKX-XII before.
Please. I've been here since near the beginning of Season 8. We're not at a tipping point. This is just the same rage and anger that's been going on since the game began. Using my example, people have left (or threatened to leave) over:
* Dinosaurs with fricken' lasers
* Changed passives
* Grinding for ships
* One singular Featured Episode and a Battlezone
* Changes to Crafting.
And now, we can add:
* Delta Rising as a whole.
You're dealing with the perfect storm of Star Trek fans, MMO fans and F2P fans. There will never be a completely happy person and if there is, they usually regret it when they speak up.
Same here, Cryptics greed is starting to catch up with them. And it must be clear now to all, it IS greed.
THIS All my yes. Cryptic is well known for cutting corners and purposely playing stupid when it comes to feedback.
Like I said, he's already made up his mind he's just pretending to listen.
However, to use an analogy, if you're going to hit me in the head with a bat, and I grab it on the wind up compared to while its streaking toward me, it takes much less effort to stop the blow. The right small change at the right time could be enough.
Also, every day people are getting stronger. Even on tribble it took two weeks to beat advanced with optionals. Every day of delay, gets better data on what to fix. I dunno if he cares or is looking, but I can hope.
My biggest concern is the scaling HP in solo story missions. That has got to get a major change. There may be a tweak that makes enough difference to turn the advanced mode into a widely enjoyed experience. The scaling HP needs a huge Nerf.
And the mentioned Upgrade system is still something i hate. Why? because thre are no other good Mk XIV items in the game. Some rare Mk XII but those are worse than my Mk XII fleet gear.
So i have to buy a Mk XII item (from the Rep. System ) and then still have to upgrade it so that in the End it costs me more than if i had bought the Item as Mk XII i think . Upgrading would be a good method for every other Item like Mission rewards but not for the Rep. System and not for the fleet.
Edit to be easier to read the bottom line:
Buy at fleet 12 vs fleet 11 and upgrade
Difference is pay an extra 20k fleet credits and 6k dil for fleet 12 vs
2-3 mil ec and save 3k dil for fleet 11 and upgrade
/end edit. Math/explanation below
The advantage varies. Rep gear often there's no choice for Mk 10 or 11 so m12 is the only choice.
Fleet weapons though, advanced 11 costs 10k fleet credits and 9k dil = about 20k dil assuming the 1:1 conversion. Elite fleet 12 costs 30k fleet credits and 15k dil = 45k dil.
You can upgrade from 11 to 12 for three (2.5 technically but you need the third) purple kits. That's only 3k dil plus the ec to buy the kits. Which varies from 650 to 1 mil each depending on time of day, and type of weapon (beam, cannon, torp, ground).
So, what is easier for you? 15k fleet credits and 6k dil for the fleet 12 weapon or 2-3mil ec and save 3k dil for the upgrade?
For me, having both options is easiest. Some days I get a lot of fleet, some days none but I sell a lot of stuff for ec. Etc. The choice is nice. But I'm good at ec earning, and that's a LOT of ec, it will stop many people.
STO doesn't seem to like people with multiple chars. With all the character bound stuff, it feels like I'd be better off (If I was doing rep or other things) working on that stuff ONLY for one char instead of having several chars doing different things.
If Lobi uniforms or ships were account bound, it'd tempt me more personally to work at getting them. Same with event stuff.
In the end, I'll finish the story missions, and log on to chat with friends, but I don't see myself doing STFs again.
Also the fact the new missions only reward XII for replaying instead of mark 13 is stupid. I could use old story missions to gear up with basic mark 12 gear to work for the really great mark 12 gear, but I can't do the same for 13?
Well, that doffing, and doing a bit of defera ground.
I have completely switched, to doing dailies only + doffing now really for my daily dilith.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
STO is still for you then (you and hard-core grinders). I'd say STO is the worst for the moderate players. Play enough to want the 'best' but it'd take forever to get it.
Casuals know they'll not get EVERYTHING! so don't sweat it and the hard-core grinders are too crazy to care.
greed has a way of showing its ugly head now and then. I have been here since STO beta way back when, I have seen it all but this is totally out there 3000 zen for ships 1000 for upgrade tokens etc. they will see more people leave and wonder why.
I take time off of game and come back being a lifetime member but now it seems the game has changed from being fun to being a pain to do too much grinding and less fun. We all have a right to voice out opinion etc., and Cryptic should really take notice and their practices before they loose anymore players.
You know it's getting bad when you get in the game during prime time in the early to late evening US time and it's actually QUIET in zone chat on ESD. THAT really freaked me out, and tells me more than anything that people are leaving in droves. <shudder>
One place I don't see this working well on Advanced though just setting the timer longer is Infected though. Since now on advanced it's insta fail if one of the borg balls gets to start healing the transformer. In most elite pugs before DR i'd say about 75% of the time or more people figure out or knew you had to concentrate fire on the transformer once it was able to be damaged to get it down before any of the spheres got close enough to it, and/or someone would hold the spheres in some way but even without them being held it was still doable if people were concentrating fire. Now in Advanced since everything has uber more HP's i'd say it fails 80-90% of the time in pugs even if everyone knows to concentrate fire on the transformer, even if someone does have something like Gravity Well or something else.
Um.. the only real difference in normal is the rewards and the fact several extra mobs have been added nothing more nothing less.
btw can I steal your banner? I love it.
I actually think it every time I play on my rommy tac.
Yes and I pray this is sarcasm because I didn't join this game to have a ship loaded up exactly like the uber leet min/max build with all the same weapon types <although that part makes sense> and have my console slots loaded out the max with multiple copies of the same console just so I can destroy things ASAP because someone wants that to be the new normal.
I LIKE the fact you can tweak and modify your ship in different ways and play around with tons of different general and specialty consoles, and it makes me sad that some part of the new normal is "Ignore all the fun stuff, just load up everything exactly like this with everything geared toward one type of DPS and thinks will all go ok." <bleh> that shouldent even be something needed to do missions on the new Elite, and if it is then that's just a joke. What is the point of all the different console types if your only able to use about 10% of them to make sure your doing the max DPS at any one moment to survive a mission correctly?
there are far more ways to earn heaps of dilithium in game without even touching the pve ques, try things like aiding the deferi, epohh tagging, doff missions, dyson content and don't forget there is a dilithium weekend coming up.
don't expect to upgrade everything overnight but what you have now is ample for all the stuff in the game I have mentioned here and probably some I haven't and while you are earning dil you will also get valuable exp.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
My character Tsin'xing
My main concern is for the game. I'm hoping that the new content in the delta quadrant will keep everyone going until these queues are fixed. I hope to be playing for a very long time to come and am worried about the loss of players if they aren't fixed soon.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."