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  • rygelx16rygelx16 Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    It's not harder, it's boring. Nothing but a a longer dps race that creates and even bigger gap in the poor class/ship balance already in the game. They feel like a long drawn out chore that are plain not fun. You want harder? try adding some mechanics to things that require reaction, positioning, thought, and skill. There is no skill you can use to make these easier, just raw numbers.

    Look at your metrics (if you have any) are you happy with the number of people playing your content? and you happy with what classes/ships are completing it? If I saw all the empty queues today I wouldn't be satisfied, I would see something very wrong and seek to fix it.

    In the end I have no problem playing the "easy" content if that is all my ship/class can do, but locking crafting mats behind things I am unable to do is where I have the real issue. These are things I need to improve my ship to be able to do the harder content. It's like putting key to the door, on the other side of the door!
  • johnstewardjohnsteward Member Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Dear geko

    Just go all out crazy with elite. If when doing do you get this "muahahaha die players die" feeling then your on a good way. Last i heard from tribble was that elite now is basically the same as advanced. Also i dont see a reason for starting low and then going up when starting very high and staying there would have been much better;)
  • dheffernandheffernan Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I played one Crystalline Advanced in my Gorn's Xindi-Reptile Escort (technically T5U but just having gotten the upgrade that doesn't mean much). He's not insanely kitted out but doesn't suck either; uses mainly fleet AP weapons with an Omega torp and the set from the freebie Dyson ship. Pre-DR it felt like a fairly strong ship.

    The TF failed in the third phase when people gave up trying to chip away at the massive pile of HP. If it's true that the rewards are half what they used to be then I can't say I'm in any particular hurry to try again.

    My first thought after this was "obviously we're meant to get to 60 first", but that's got problems of its own. For one thing I'm not really sure I should have to go get ten levels to run the content I was running two days ago. For another I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get those levels. My main, a Fed Tac, appears to have run through the available Delta quadrant missions in one afternoon for about a level's worth of XP. Am I honestly supposed to run patrol missions for the other nine? Just so I can do what I was doing before?

    I can understand wanting more difficult content for the new level bracket. Breaking the old content isn't necessary for that.
    @Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Had a quick crack last night at ISA with an admittedly unmodified, but Fleet / Rep gear maxed, L50.

    Spheres got to the first generator - principally due to poor coordination - at which point the mission ended.

    OK, no problem thus far; the possibility of failure is always good.

    However, I was then stuck on a 1-hr cooldown for a retry, which was frustrating. Would it be possible to remove the cooldowns for failed runs? IE if a mission is failed, as opposed to players pulling out, they can at least try again straight away?
  • johnstewardjohnsteward Member Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dheffernan wrote: »
    I played one Crystalline Advanced in my Gorn's Xindi-Reptile Escort (technically T5U but just having gotten the upgrade that doesn't mean much). He's not insanely kitted out but doesn't suck either; uses mainly fleet AP weapons with an Omega torp and the set from the freebie Dyson ship. Pre-DR it felt like a fairly strong ship.

    The TF failed in the third phase when people gave up trying to chip away at the massive pile of HP. If it's true that the rewards are half what they used to be then I can't say I'm in any particular hurry to try again.

    My first thought after this was "obviously we're meant to get to 60 first", but that's got problems of its own. For one thing I'm not really sure I should have to go get ten levels to run the content I was running two days ago. For another I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get those levels. My main, a Fed Tac, appears to have run through the available Delta quadrant missions in one afternoon for about a level's worth of XP. Am I honestly supposed to run patrol missions for the other nine? Just so I can do what I was doing before?

    I can understand wanting more difficult content for the new level bracket. Breaking the old content isn't necessary for that.

    Then just play on normal. Ofc its harder on 50 because if it wasnt then on 60 it would be easier. Thing change. Adept.
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Just a quick statement before I knock out for the night, might give a more in-depth assessment in the morning, but:
    Went to do a basic Federation Fleet Alert, at regular difficulty. My character is pretty well specced as far as gear goes, but nothing too bananas. Everyone else was on top of their game, in either top tier or comparable ships (including several new ones), and we could not complete the Alert. Not because we were getting blown up or anything, mind you. We all managed to pretty much survive. But we ran out of time, because the enemies seemed to have THAT much more Hull Points. They weren't even anything special, either; it was just a Gorn fleet.
    I understand that Elite got buffed to heck and back, and a new difficulty setting was introduced to replace it, but again: this was on NORMAL difficulty, and I canNOT remember the last time I ran out of time on a Fleet Alert.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • wanderintxwanderintx Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    If I were to guess, I would expect basic to get some minor tuning, Advanced to get a little easier and Elite to get a lot harder - and rewards, like dilithium rewards, could potentially go up across queues once we are sure we are hitting the right mark. But this is just my guess at this time.

    May your guesses be right. I have not made it to Elite yet, but the first two seem needed to me from what I played. Basic was way too easy, Advanced was more of a boring slog than an increased challenge, and it did not compensate well for the time vs. old Elite.
  • zilkahnzelzilkahnzel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    The new difficulties do not match the hype. Advanced was supposed to be equivalent to pre-Delta elite, however it's now an annoyingly long slog and gear check. I imagine the new Elite mode is strictly for people with Mk XIV gold gear... it's a good thing that's not tied heavily to dilithium and by extension tied to ZEN, right? Might get the impression of an early-expansion cash grab.

    Well I guess I'll be benching myself from "hard mode" until the inevitable nerf to difficulties that always happens in MMOs after devs make the mistake of catering to the 1% of the community. (I sure hope that 1% are all fat whales.)
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    zilkahnzel wrote: »
    The new difficulties do not match the hype. Advanced was supposed to be equivalent to pre-Delta elite, however it's now an annoyingly long slog and gear check. I imagine the new Elite mode is strictly for people with Mk XIV gold gear... it's a good thing that's not tied heavily to dilithium and by extension tied to ZEN, right? Might get the impression of an early-expansion cash grab.

    Well I guess I'll be benching myself from "hard mode" until the inevitable nerf to difficulties that always happens in MMOs after devs make the mistake of catering to the 1% of the community. (I sure hope that 1% are all fat whales.)

    Yes, let's let that 1% pay for us all to play for awhile, because I sure am not going to do it.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • comdrivercomdriver Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    If I could earn Borg Neural Processors on normal like I can Voth Cybernetic Implants (Battlezone) and Isomorphic Injections (Undine Battlezone) I would play normal all day long! :cool:

    This.

    at current difficulty levels there are no good ways for new players/new alts to get neural processors. I got problems with advanced STF with very rare mk12 gear+reputation sets on t5u. imagine new lvl 50 player who got enough marks from basic STFs, but can't get rep gear for being able to beat advanced. I need borg processors to get borg processors. looks weird.

    I think advanced should be same as it were before DR and for hard players who likes current difficulty (because they got mk13 or even 14 rep and fleet gear already) make elite available from 50 or 55. but only adding 1 neural processor (don't care about dill reward) to basic reward - it would be great.

    and about new delta missions - I even can't get to them since I spent half a hour on advanced Crystalline Catastrophe, beated it to 30% and thean all other players get bored and left STF and another hour on futile attempts to get at least any reward from borg STFs with all my chars (some with mk13 fleet gear)
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I m shocked that bigger hp sponges don't satisfy the masses, what an unexpected turn of events, geko. It was such a stunning success the last times, and the feedback you so desperately miss on those forums, has been anything but clear on what is fun when increasing difficulties, and what isn't.

    YAY hiptoints!
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    i have done :

    - disconnected borg advanced: mobs have too high HP

    - infected the conduit advanced: mobs have too high HP, nanite spheres are almost invinsible

    - viscous cycle elite: mobs have insane HP (vila battleship and dromias), it was hard before DR, now this is worse (but we are succeeded after a lot of death but after the end of the timer)

    - federation fleet alert (done 3 times): mobs have too high hp, frigates are almost like cruiser (success 1, failure 2 - end of the timer)

    - defend kh'rho station advanced: the timer is too short (attemps 2, failures 2), my rom engineer was a beast in this stf.

    - khitomer in stasis advanced: not very difficult, but don't do it with pugs, as now we need a lot of dps, and players who know what they must do; i mean really know; a solo engineer can't save the team like this was before DR)

    I have a fleet dhelan (not upgraded) with fleet weapons, rep gears (nukara shield upgraded to MK XIII), spire tac consoles (5) upgraded to MK XIII, fleet engineering consoles (2 neutronium) upgraded to MK XIII. i'm level 54 with shield skills (the new ones)
  • kyhas1kyhas1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    I understand that Elite got buffed to heck and back, and a new difficulty setting was introduced to replace it, but again: this was on NORMAL difficulty, and I canNOT remember the last time I ran out of time on a Fleet Alert.

    Yeah well remember in fleet alert everyone is buffed to the level cap, In this case Level 60, all the enemies are too. So technically they have unintentionally made all Fleet alerts advanced I believe.


    However I managed to complete my Fleet alert against the borg, we started off slow but somehow as i got used to my T6 ship and others got used to co-coordinating, our pug group managed to whittle them down to zilch faster and faster every wave.
  • crappynamerulescrappynamerules Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    The fact is, the difficulties for the STFs are not what was advertised. Advanced is not at all equivalent to the old elite. It has added enemies, and ABSURDLY buffed HP. If I were hitting these sorts of horrible fail results running the new elite, I'd understand. It's supposed to be super duper hardest ever bring the best of the best or go home hard. But people are pointing out they are kind of already doing that with advanced, and others are taking to the forums to accuse them of "faw facerolling" and other such TRIBBLE. Truth be told, those types of builds are now the only ones to really get the job done. Elite was supposed to be the new difficulty for the "content is too easy" crowd. Not advanced.
  • mycroft1701mycroft1701 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Agree with everyone that's commented that the rewards are far too low compared to time invested.

    Also, can we please have an alternative way to earn things like BNPs and Implants etc? Not everyone will or can do the new Advanced queues (and maybe won't still after you've finished whatever tweaks you feel are necessary). These players shouldn't be prevented from getting rep gear IMHO. If nothing else, let us exchange marks for them?
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Well Captaingeko , here is the progression you have chosen to present to the players in the last two years :

    - First you had Rep systems where you went through the content to get gear to get better at going through the exact same content .

    - Then you got the new Crafting system where you either payed , or were left to "craft" for months / years , depending on how often you log in .

    - And now , finally you've managed to arrive at the absurd status , in which the player is expected to be at the new lvl 60 engame content , while he's simultaneously needs Mk14 VR/UR gear to participate in the newly balanced queues , just to farm marks and items that the same player needs for buying Mk12 VR stuff.
    Something seems the wrong way round here.


    And all of the above is what the players face BEFORE the current HP & awards mess that people have been complaining about since DR went live .

    But please note, that have already had some pretty well organized fleets blazing through Elite with apparent ease. It kinda blows me away honestly. We have a lot of diversity on skill in STO, so finding the right balance point may take time.

    I actually expected you guys to know the average / median DPS of your Lvl 50 player base and plan accordingly .
    And since even the 30K+ DPS-ers admit that they are the minority (by what I expect to be by at least an order of a magnitude if not more) , I am quite surprised with the HP numbers your team cooked up for the Advanced queues ... -- which I expect are not seeing much use these past hours .
  • jeyj13jeyj13 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    One of the problems I found was that there was a discrepancy on what "Normal" is. The Normal Crystalline Catastrophe levels to 50, while the Federation Fleet Alert levels to 60 and has the same difficulty (hp-wise) as an Advanced.

    I'm assuming that the Fleet alert isn't the only queued event to have this, and I personally think that the level cap for Normal should be set back to 50 like they said it would. I also think they should make Advanced and Elite versions of the Fleet Queues maybe for the truly daring.

    From playing Fleet Alert, I learned that it only takes 1 wave for most of a team to quit out because more difficult than it says it should be.
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  • battykoda0battykoda0 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I wonder: to keep at bay the whining shouldn't more easy to restore the previous difficulty levels and then add some level more?

    That is...

    Level 1 ---> The previous "Normal"
    Level 2 ---> The previous "Advanced"
    Level 3 ---> The previous "Elite"
    Level 4 ---> The current "Advanced"
    Level 5 ---> The current "Elite"

    Easy but effective!

    I don't see as nearly as much about it being hard as it being too hard for the rewards you get. The real raise in difficulty is upgrading your stuff on about half the dil and less marks per hour of playable time at twice the time invested, not playing the content.
    Wow. There is a new KDF Science ship. I'll be!
  • comdrivercomdriver Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    The "difficulty" on Advanced is fine as is in it's present form IMO.
    look at it from angle different from t5u/t6 with mk13/14 ultra rare items
    have you tried it in t5 ship without rep/fleet gear (as fresh lvl 50, may be with all mk12 vr items)? since this is the way to get that rep gear for new players so they should be able to get it
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  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Welcome to Delta Rising. A lot has changed in the game difficulty, and we are looking for your feedback.

    Delta Rising was a massive addition, and we anticipate that we will need to make adjustments. So over the next few weeks expect changes in the baseline difficulty, advanced difficulty, and elite difficulty - and also expect rewards to change as we gather more metrics on play-times and success rates.

    Our goal was to make basic difficulty and the story content something everyone can play - even with a standard T5 ship. Levels 1-50 are generally pretty easy at basic difficulty, so we felt 51-60 should step things up a bit. Although we expect 51-60 accessible everyone, those in T5 ships and non-upgraded gear should to start to feel a definite challenge as they approach level 60. We expect Advanced to be for more skilled players and those who have invested in the game (ships and gear). And we expect Elite to be for the best of the best. We don't expect most players to succeed on elite difficulty.

    If I were to guess, I would expect basic to get some minor tuning, Advanced to get a little easier and Elite to get a lot harder - and rewards, like dilithium rewards, could potentially go up across queues once we are sure we are hitting the right mark. But this is just my guess at this time.

    Until then, let us know your thoughts here, and we will take your feedback into consideration.


    Thanks, and we hope you enjoy Delta Rising.

    LLAP

    SO MUCH EXPODEY TIME! I LOVE IT!

    :D

    Muwahahahahaha!
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I have tried Crystalline Advanced in my best geared T5 ship, and that entity is so op the it's not even funny. tried it 3 times, and all 3 ended in all of us leaving the instance, and agreeing that it's not fun at this level.

    all 3 times we got it to about ~66%, and then it became utterly impossible, despite throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it. We debuffed it like crazy, but the thing just sat there blasting us into tiny little pieces.

    Tried one Fed FA, and it failed at wave 3, despite again good ships, and good captains piloting them.

    The difficulty level has taken a steep turn for the worse, and should be looked at ASAP, as it's not fun to play any queued mission as it stands...
  • graysockgraysock Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    So I wonder when elite gets a lot more difficult then advance, how much more more hp the CE will get?

    50 million hp and 90% resistances seems appropriate, also optional has to be done in 5 minutes.
  • kelshandokelshando Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    TIME LIMITS NEED TO GO!!

    Here is the issue... when you make fights dps races that puts Sci and ENG ships and captains in a bad place.

    Dps races means no point in bring a Sci support ship for your team.

    Dps race means no point being a ENG tank spec for your team.

    This destroys diversity in builds and forces everyone into min/max for one thing.. DPS.
  • comdrivercomdriver Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    A couple of things
    I totally agree about adjusted rewards. and about upgrades - may be. everyone should upgrade at 60 anyway. but if devs want fast money at start - why not.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Lastly, I'm still running my Fleet Advanced Escort with MK XII Fleet/Rep gear. I haven't upgraded anything and I'm still able to do well on Normal and Advanced.
    not to You personally but to DEVs. even with mk12 it is still rep gear which were obtained from old "easy" elite STFs
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Just got finished patching last night. Haven't tried any of the new content yet. Was planning on giving it a go this evening after I get home from work. Have been reading the forums and have seen the same comments again and again.

    - Giant HP bags and more of them do not equal "more challenging".
    - Better AI for NPCs would be much more appreciated.
    - Reduced rewards and increased length of time for completion does not equal more fun.
    - New difficulty levels intended to require more diversity and teamwork. Yet high DPS seems to be the only viable technique to succeed.
    - Players require better gear to succeed at new difficulty levels. Yet gear is behind missions impossible to complete successfully.
    - Large amounts of Dilithium spent in Crafting is the only alternative route to better gear.
    - Some people are enjoying the new difficulty levels. Most others apparently not.
    - Succeed or fail, the new levels of difficulty are placed on a one hour cool down.

    I realize since I am merely a F2P who spends the occasional US $20 to $40 dollars per week, my opinion does not carry as much weight as a Gold or LTS "Whale". For the most part, I am okay with this and I do enjoy this game. However, are there enough 'whales' in this game to support it financially without people such as myself? And I strongly suspect the 'whales' do not generate enough of a revenue stream all by themselves. Else this game would still follow the subscription only format.

    I will probably continue playing STO. I was a Star Trek fan long before STO came out. I will continue to be one long after pwe/cryptic files for bankruptcy and creditor protection. I think the new changes are for the most part good ones. But at the same time they are not perfect. I do not expect perfection.

    I do expect a reasonable value for the small amount of discretionary income I spend on this game. Currently, based upon what I have read in these forums, I think this value may be lacking. Or worse, pwe/cryptic may be taking the goodwill of its customers for granted. I also am fairly sure Gecko may be listening to us but NOT really hearing what we are saying. Xerox, Gateway, New Coke, these are but a few examples of company executives being smarter than their customers but not really paying attention to them. I learned a very long time ago whether or not the customer is right, they are still the customer. And negative word of mouth advertising spreads like a wildfire out of control.

    Just one man's opinion.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • graysockgraysock Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    kelshando wrote: »
    TIME LIMITS NEED TO GO!!

    Here is the issue... when you make fights dps races that puts Sci and ENG ships and captains in a bad place.

    Dps races means no point in bring a Sci support ship for your team.

    Dps race means no point being a ENG tank spec for your team.

    This destroys diversity in builds and forces everyone into min/max for one thing.. DPS.

    Yep, i like it how people still say its useful to bring a sci cc to ise, sure you can keep the nanites away, but you rob your team quite substantial dps, so you have a high chance of failing the mission anyway, just a few minutes later when you run out of time to kill the stuff.


    If they want to keep this, then they should make different optionals, not crappy kill timers.
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  • arrmateysarrmateys Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    people who like the advanced difficulty seem to forget something. it's not for you. it's for new players to earn neural processors/isomorphic injections, purple materials and such. without those they can't get into reputation gear or upgrade it, without which they can't enter the dps race to be able to compete in those stfs. you want challenge and high difficulty, go play elite.

    i might be able to beat the crystalline entity's 22 million hp after over half an hour of tedious, boring slog on my main character who's geared out with reputation/fleet items, lobi consoles and sizable dilithium reserve for gear upgrading, but the new one i just made? not a chance. he can't even break the 10k dps barrier yet without rep gear, which he can't get anymore since the injections/processors/etc and reasonable number of marks are behind the obscene hp barrier enemies now have. the entity heals faster than he can ever hope to damage it.
    Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the cr​ap out of me.
    We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
    We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
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