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Issue with Crafting - Random mods on consoles
jackal1701apw
Member Posts: 669 Arc User
This is a big issue with crafting. I finally got my engineer up to lvl 15 in engineering and my scientist up to lvl 15 on science so was able to craft my first of the two types of new console.
Using the best catalysts I was able to get a UR version of both BUT that was not the problem, it was the mods that the consoles came with were things that I didn't want.
Now I can understand the random mods on weapons. You can still use the weapons, they are still DHCs, they still do AP damage, but even though some mods are more desirable (like acc or critd) the others don't chance the basic underlying nature of the weapon.
But with the consoles this isn't the case.
The Eng console has 3 parts to it:
1) Conductive Accelerator proc (not always on, max half the time)
2) +Turn rate (always on)
3) Random modifier (always on)
Sci console is similarly set up with a different proc for 1) and +part gen for 2) but random 3).
This means that over 40% of what the console actually does (number 3) is totally random. It totally alters whether the item you make is worthwhile for you (or indeed anyone) or not.
Given that these consoles cost a HUGE amount of resources to make (in the region of 8-10m EC worth of materials for an Engineering one, TWICE as much for a science one, plus nearly two full days of dil refining) this totally random chance is just not acceptable. If I wanted to gamble with my money/resources I will open lockboxes... but I don't want to do this with crafting.
You just need to look at the exchange to see how stupid this system is. UR Conductive RCS [Stealth] are trading at 4m (significantly lower than input costs) whereas a [ResAll] (albeit mk13) is 200m. A [Sen] Exciter trades at 8.8m whereas a [PrtG] version at Mk13 is 190m. Playing with this system is like pi**ing your resources away.
I have created two consoles, got TRIBBLE results and won't be crafting again. This makes me NOT want to play your game.
In the same way that the random chance of rep gear was removed (with proto tech being replaced with the reputation projects) I ask the designers of the crafting system to revisit this aspect and allow us to choose our mods for non weapon craftables.
Using the best catalysts I was able to get a UR version of both BUT that was not the problem, it was the mods that the consoles came with were things that I didn't want.
Now I can understand the random mods on weapons. You can still use the weapons, they are still DHCs, they still do AP damage, but even though some mods are more desirable (like acc or critd) the others don't chance the basic underlying nature of the weapon.
But with the consoles this isn't the case.
The Eng console has 3 parts to it:
1) Conductive Accelerator proc (not always on, max half the time)
2) +Turn rate (always on)
3) Random modifier (always on)
Sci console is similarly set up with a different proc for 1) and +part gen for 2) but random 3).
This means that over 40% of what the console actually does (number 3) is totally random. It totally alters whether the item you make is worthwhile for you (or indeed anyone) or not.
Given that these consoles cost a HUGE amount of resources to make (in the region of 8-10m EC worth of materials for an Engineering one, TWICE as much for a science one, plus nearly two full days of dil refining) this totally random chance is just not acceptable. If I wanted to gamble with my money/resources I will open lockboxes... but I don't want to do this with crafting.
You just need to look at the exchange to see how stupid this system is. UR Conductive RCS [Stealth] are trading at 4m (significantly lower than input costs) whereas a [ResAll] (albeit mk13) is 200m. A [Sen] Exciter trades at 8.8m whereas a [PrtG] version at Mk13 is 190m. Playing with this system is like pi**ing your resources away.
I have created two consoles, got TRIBBLE results and won't be crafting again. This makes me NOT want to play your game.
In the same way that the random chance of rep gear was removed (with proto tech being replaced with the reputation projects) I ask the designers of the crafting system to revisit this aspect and allow us to choose our mods for non weapon craftables.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...#LLAP...
...#LLAP...
Post edited by jackal1701apw on
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It's done for the blatantly obvious reason to just let you craft another console, when the RND has screwed you over.
And this, man-friends, is why we don't need threads giving Cryptic even more ideas to make money.
Would any of you be surprised when some where down the line, they release/announce that they're going to update the crafting system to allow players to add or alter modifiers of their choice? But it'll come at a cost and I'll wager money on it that it wont be cheap.
Like I said in the OP I can even get on board with the random [Mod]s on weapon type items as fundamentally the equipment is not different. They are just varying degrees of the same thing - some better than others - but all usable for someone.
Ultimately it really is just these two consoles (Eng Cond RCS and Sci Part Exciter) that are the problem as the Aegis set pieces have defined mods and other items such as ground armour/shields and standard engine/deflec/shields are much cheaper to craft.
...#LLAP...
The difference between a Sci Exciter console with [PrtG] or [Ins], for example, is like 160mil vs. 20mil. RND can really do a number on you that way.
What would your reaction be if you didn't crit and get ultra rares on both? Would you feel less cheated because you didn't get a mod you didn't want or more because you didn't get a mod at all?
Did you do any investigation of the Exchange prior to crafting those two consoles? The only way to get to lvl 15 by this point in time means you at least crafted something else prior to hitting level 15 and you realized that mods are random. Or you completed projects early with a lot of dilithium and we don't care about your whining.
Would I like the crafting process to be more deterministic? yes
Same reason Lock Boxes make most of STO's revenue. Crafting doesn't pull in much revenue, but it is a little bit of a bonus zen sink.
That Skinner was an idiot, then, making blanket statements like that. When it comes to paying for things, I bet 99% of the people want to know, upfront, exactly whay they'll be getting for their money.
While I agree with you let us be honest. If Cryptic realized that massive disparity, or were going to fix it, they would have done so with the very rare doff crafted Mk XII consoles years ago.
This is merely a repeat in the cycle and while something could, and should, be done about it nothing will be.
As I said, at least the upgrade system gives you the ability to get a rarity upgrade after you have crafted the item (obviously that would need to be re-worked to make the [Mod] granted using that system non-random also.
Yes I did. I was fully aware of the difference in pricing between the different mods. Given that I have just completed a nearly 3 month grind up to obtain the level 15 ability to craft specials, I wanted to craft one to give me a feeling of acomplishment. Only with the random TRIBBLE that it came out with - I got no feeling of acomplishment, just a bitter taste in the mouth for time and resources wasted.
Erm. No. I used dailies for almost the whole way up (including for the first week or so multiple versions of the same daily until that boat was well and truely sunk). Although I think for a couple of days I may have made a mk 6 before doing the daily if I knew I would still be playing the game a few hours after (to make sure I didnt wreck the cooldown). So yer, not a single dil wasted on that stupid part of the system but thanks for the insults.
...#LLAP...
Well, there's a couple of things (if not more going on out there), no?
Hawk's working on the metagame stuff. Geko's still pushing for the next skill revamp.
Within a year or two...it might happen.
But in the end, if the stuff we craft/unlocked upgrade wasn't something we wanted but was something somebody might want...wouldn't have the "ffs, vendortrash" feeling with some of the stuff.
They'd still be able to maintain the gambling thing, cause folks would still keep trying for what they wanted - making other stuff have some value wouldn't change the odds of anybody getting anything.
Saw some ResAll for ~115m instead of over 200m the other day. Partigens is still off the charts.
Some folks gear toward the content. Ties into what they did with the Reputation System. Admittedly my Exciter [Pla] wasn't by choice, but it's nifty when fighting the Borg. In a similar fashion others would be nifty when fighting the particular enemies that do that kind of damage.
I'm kind of surprised they haven't done more of a push on the weapon side as well.
All the special items price in the exchange are BS compared to the cost of making them.
The cost is anywhere from 10 to 20 mil EC plus around 20k dilithium.
These are being sold for less than 10 million in most cases.
The problem is that the materials are grossly overpriced. This caused by there being 2 distinct groups working the system. 1 group thinks that they are playing with found money so they build stuff and sell it for an actual loss but still feel like a millionaire. The other group is madly buying VR VR materials like crack to try and get the mods they want. It makes for a lousy disconnect.
I've been saying from crafting day 1 that those materials need to go well under 100,000 to make the system reasonable.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So true. But there is an aspect that is not so qualitative but more quantitative - and that would be any and all PvP mods which by definition hold ZERO value to someone that does not PvP. None. Nada.
Obviously this relates to weapon mods on the crafting side, but still...
At this point, it's possible to have reached level 15 without having crafted anything (other than the project) or spending any dilithium. It's been 88 days since the crafting revamp was released. The project can be done every 20 hours. Simple math 88 day * 24 hours / 20 hours = 105 times the project could have been done by now. Even without critting a single time, that's enough to have made it to level 15 (pretty much yesterday is the no-crit-cut-off actually). Plus there was that awesome double R&D EXP weekend...
That said, there's nothing wrong with spending a little dilithium here and there... you earn 8k a day, why not use that 8k to speed up the project (after half the time has passed). You can essentially double the speed that you get to level 15, without spending $. I did that, and do not regret it :cool:
This guy is right.
I made it to level 15 science in about 50 days (not spending any real money, just playing the game for the free dilithium). After that, I acquired 5 purple Science R&D DOffs from the exchange, and crafted 5 of those unique science consoles a day. I can tell you, at least back then, even though the mods were random, selling everything on the exchange averaged out to be profitable. Sure, once and a while, you get 5 very rare consoles that sell for less than the mats that made them. But then the next day, you might get a [grav], or a [prtg], and sell that on the exchange for FAR more than you put into it. At least for me, it averaged out enough to buy me the entire Voth Ship line so I could get the awesome Voth Battle Cloak (just to troll people with awesome particle generator Sci magic and Battle Cloak in PVP)
All of that said, I would be for a less random way of determining mods. Random sucks if you just want a certain thing (but awesome to profit on, but I've profited enough:D)
They hold value if there is somebody that does PvP and the mods have some value to them. Which goes back to the even if it does not have value for the crafter, as long as it has value...
[Stealth] has...no value (a diehard opinion). Starship Stealth is the worst skill in the game (a diehard opinion).
Lol, yeah, plenty of morons selling level 15 crafted gear at a huge loss. Then there is the other group of morons selling tech upgrades like if they were Wal-Mart with very thin profit margins. Those Wal-Mart sellers will give themselves a slap in the face On Tuesday.
For some folks, they're not necessarily selling anything at a loss - they might not be selling things for as much as they could, but it's not necessarily a loss for them on their investment.
Then why not feel accomplished with the knowledge that you can craft the special without actually crafting it? In terms of the timing of your achievement of reaching level 15 and the proximity of the DR release, the crafted item may not be as useful in that version of the game. Part of the problem is what you mentioned originally. The value of the console is more heavily skewed towards the type of UR [mod] versus not having one at all. It is similar to the Voth weapon mechanic that proc only a percentage of the time following a crit.
It took me a couple days after reaching level 15 to realize the true value of crafting. It is all about making your own Tech Upgrades. Crafting a Mk II has more value than crafting a Mk VI or Mk X because the material and time input is drastically lower for the same TRIBBLE shoot roll. The equalizer is the ability to upgrade to max rank and max quality. The entire landscape of the gear game has changed. It used to be a personal balance of rank vs [mod]. Now it is only the mix of [mod] that makes any difference (with a few exceptions).
Sorry about the backhanded nature of the insult. But since you appreciate it, let's take another stab at it. You understand the randomness of the generated [mod] and are ok with the upgrade process to increase rarity. It seems you have a grasp of the crafting system (not too tight or loose). So your only complaint after crafting close to nothing during your entire journey to level 15 is that you didn't get exactly what you want out of a sample size of one.
devs, pls give us some real crafting and remove this random mods, make them fixed or atleast selectable mods.
I would say in many situations they aren't provided that they crit on the construction of the components.
*provided*
indeed, not everyone gambles and some have aversion to it, even more, aversion to being forced to gamble, and having nothing of what they look for, ends up having the opposite effect and driving them away.
I remember a real story, under the old stf obtainable equipment - you needed to get the purple drop to craft the equipment.
A player was trying to get it for over a year, and no luck. he went with fleet members and 2-3 players were getting the drop he wanted and couldn't trade it to him ... the final straw was when the new guy just got it right away
... he ended up leaving the game, on how frustrated he was
(that's how much people like randomness)
But on that logic, would be good to craft a token, to remaster the equipment's procs, people that like to gamble, would gamble, and people that like to have they're equipment with a certain orientation, would do it.
Great. Another acronym. Someone please tell me what RNG is.
My guess would be: like RND, but then RaNdom Generator.