Seriously - nothing anyone can say here will change anything. Anyone complaining will be trolled by the "white knights". The Developers are not listening. People have too much money and time invested in the game to show their displeasure by walking away. It's Star Trek...and until something better comes along, we have to play this game to get our fix.
^- that's mostly true. I do like some of the added stuff they did with the Borg missions. It's not all that I had hoped for but not the worst either. I just know that it will happen like it always does where Cryptic will pull some silly marketing scheme that they think rocks, TRIBBLE me off and I'll get bored with the game so shelf it til the next expansion.
*In a weird way, I'm more upset that they haven't offered up anything for the expansion that isn't terribly priced but makes me want to open my wallet. LoR did that. I know it sounds weird, but I feel better about paying for things like this because I feel like that will bring more of it. But with everything I have seen thus far in the dev blogs, I may not pay even cent for DR because there's nothing of value** in it for me.
^- that's mostly true. I do like some of the added stuff they did with the Borg missions. It's not all that I had hoped for but not the worst either. I just know that it will happen like it always does where Cryptic will pull some silly marketing scheme that they think rocks, TRIBBLE me off and I'll get bored with the game so shelf it til the next expansion.
*In a weird way, I'm more upset that they haven't offered up anything for the expansion that isn't terribly priced but makes me want to open my wallet. LoR did that. I know it sounds weird, but I feel better about paying for things like this because I feel like that will bring more of it. But with everything I have seen thus far in the dev blogs, I may not pay even cent for DR because there's nothing of value** in it for me.
** aside from the content btw.
The ships and upgrades and such definitely won't get me to pay.
The only reason I'm hoping I can afford something is that I want to give something for the story missions and for the voice actors. To me, that's worth a lot. The ships I can live without, and the upgrades I think are too expensive, though I will admit maxed out stuff is really impressive, far more powerful than fleet 12 gear. Its not just 3 steps up, its more like 8 steps. Still, nothing in value compared to nearly doubling the number of trek actors to be in the game.
Everything on the game is still free. It depends on how much time and effort your willing to make it happen.
Only way you need to throw real $ at it. Is due to "I want it now". To me that don't matter as you can do what you want. Myself has done it both. Either got it from game playing or paying.
Its not about that anymore. Its about the direction this game is headed since time ago. Of course, you can play this game for 10 years and you will be still trying to achieve everything you want (this is just an example, dont take it literally), you are not in a hurry...
No offense, but that's the usual lame argument. Which amounts to saying it's POSSIBLE to walk from Amsterdam to Paris: everyone knows it's technically true, yet everyone also knows it's entirely unreasonable. Like saying it's possible to get anything in-game without real money: technically true, but as good as meaningless in practice.
And who is this 'we' you keep referring to?! Unless Cryptic made you part of the Dev team, I count only you.
Myself and the many others I see throughout the forums saying basically the same thing, the "royal" we,... your attempt to pick apart a logical, truthful argument and reason by cherry picking individual pieces and nuances of language to prove the argument wrong and you correct, are destined to fail.
P.S.
If you don't know what "royal we" means, google it. I am in no way saying I or anyone else is any form of royalty and therefore must be given undue deference.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Statement is still 100% accurate, I can get anything and everything in game without spending real life currency. How is free not generous? 8k dil a day is pretty damn easy to get. EC is pretty damn easy to get.
PS this is coming from a "casual"
Gotta agree with this! No other mmo I've ever played that is f2p offers any way to really earn game store currency like STO does with earning Zen.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Myself and the many others I see throughout the forums saying basically the same thing, the "royal" we,... your attempt to pick apart a logical, truthful argument and reason by cherry picking individual pieces and nuances of language to prove the argument wrong and you correct, are destined to fail.
'A logical, truthful argument'?! I didn't see any. All I saw was the usual Kindergarten grandstanding, based on being technically right only; you know, cheapshots, like how Cryptic doesn't literally MAKE you buy anything, or how you really CAN do everything without rl money (even though it would take ages, and be impossible to do for most, time-wise alone). Every thread like this, there's always someone throwing in these precise two faux pearls of wisdom. And I'm getting tired of it.
Meanwhile, the grown-ups in this forum are trying to discuss whether the DR cost is reasonable. You know, whether RND should pertain to everything, or just the outcome of the rarity; and the cost of huge tech upgrades vs. the chance of not getting anything. Etc. But yeah, you just go ahead and throw in these faux empowerment statements, and think you're saying something 'logical and truthful.'
No offense, but that's the usual lame argument. Which amounts to saying it's POSSIBLE to walk from Amsterdam to Paris: everyone knows it's technically true, yet everyone also knows it's entirely unreasonable. Like saying it's possible to get anything in-game without real money: technically true, but as good as meaningless in practice.
And who is this 'we' you keep referring to?! Unless Cryptic made you part of the Dev team, I count only you.
'A logical, truthful argument'?! I didn't see any. All I saw was the usual Kindergarten grandstanding, based on being technically right only; you know, cheapshots, like how Cryptic doesn't literally MAKE you buy anything, or how you really CAN do everything without rl money (even though it would take ages, and be impossible to do for most, time-wise alone). Every thread like this, there's always someone throwing in these precise two faux pearls of wisdom. And I'm getting tired of it.
Meanwhile, the grown-ups in this forum are trying to discuss whether the DR cost is reasonable. You know, whether RND should pertain to everything, or just the outcome of the rarity; and the cost of huge tech upgrades vs. the chance of not getting anything. Etc. But yeah, you just go ahead and throw in these faux empowerment statements, and think you're saying something 'logical and truthful.'
Cost being reasonable is an entirely separate issue. Your OP title suggested that with DR, STO is no longer free to play. That is patently false. My assertion earlier that while it may not be quick or easy, it is doable, is 100% true and factual.
I can't help that you don't like the answer, but that doesn't make the answer less true.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Cost being reasonable is an entirely separate issue. Your OP title suggested that with DR, STO is no longer free to play. That is patently false. My assertion earlier that while it may not be quick or easy, it is doable, is 100% true and factual.
I can't help that you don't like the answer, but that doesn't make the answer less true.
Erm, I didn't start this topic.
As for the title of the OP's thread, I think it will prove really hard for ppl to do this without investing some rl money; to the point where 'technically doable' and 'comfortably' are far, far apart. Then again, I've never been opposed to P2W, really: I love buying shiny stuff. I just think with DR Cryptic may be taking it a bit too far, is all.
it's important to remember we have players who can't do estfs now. we see threads all the time from 'good' players raging about the bad players in estfs, and how cryptic should limit their access so it doesn't ruin it for others. it's not going to be any different in dr. most players are going to do it on regular. the slightly better players will do it on advanced. the small group of exceptional players are doing to do elites.
and not everyone wants to get better. lots of players just play to play. their casuals just here to get their star trek fix for a couple of hours before getting back to the regular life. they're not all here to challenge themselves. life can be challenging enough.
And if it turns out to work like this in relation to Normal, Advanced and Elite, then the system can be considered to be working...
I don't support limiting access, however, I definitely support the move to include harder difficulty modes for those who wish greater challenge...
If this then results in complaints that people are missing out on content, all I will say is they need to stop and consider why this has happened... Why should I be denied the challenge I desire because they are not upto the task? How is that fair for me and my gaming experience?
If those people who just want to face-roll through STO want to experience the new, more difficult content, they may just have to pick their face up off their keyboard and learn how things actually work...
Might sound harsh, but I'm just being honest here... I've heard many of these same arguments during my years raiding in WoW...
I never understood why my enjoyment, and that of my guild mates - we were not hard-core raiders but definitely serious about it - should suffer so that people who don't want to put in the effort can 'experience the content' also...
The ongoing dumbing down of raiding had alot to do with why I stopped playing...
People have continually said how generous Cryptic's free to play model is and how that anything that's in game can be had without spending real money. Throughout the last several months, this statement has been less and less accurate.
With all the changes that have come over the last few months and the changes being implemented with DR it is harder than it has been in almost two years for an average player to get anything he wants without spending RL money.
EC is harder to earn. They're taking away loot drops from the end of STFs. For those that may not have gotten good drops or haven't paid attention this may not seem like a big deal but over the last two years I've gotten numerous purple MK XI and XII drops at the end and sold those on the exchange for a good amount of EC.
Not only is it more time consuming to earn dilithium, there are much more things that need dilithium to get than ever before. As someone who has found themselves turned into a "casual" by life circumstances and no longer able to devote 30-40 hours a week to the game a.k.a. "have it be your second job" getting new gear or ships through grinding is no longer an option for me.
I've said it in another thread but I've watched this game go from casual friendly to primarily benefiting those that are super grinders and those that are willing to dump lots of money and the players in between are left in a state of "why am I here?" limbo and mediocrity.
I've stepped off the gear treadmill and at this point I'm only logging in a hour here and there to do a cap&hold match if I can even get one, check on the fleet, and without new content to play there's really nothing to do that interest me.
I've realized that it makes much more sense to play a sub game like SWTOR, FF, or a single player game as those games can provide me with a much more enjoyable experience. This Free to play model is not sustainable long term.
I honestly don't mind spending money on a game, but IMO all of the prices are ridiculously high and things that should be a no-brainer as free for Gold or Lifers are not (Re-specs).
I'll keep my R&D training going and pew in a match here and there but probably won't play much until Delta Rising hits and there is brand new story content to play. Once I'm done with that stuff I'll be back to uber-casual till the next content update. Is this what you want Cryptic?
My proposed solution:
Increase the benefits of subbing Gold and going Lifetime across the board. Increase your revenue by gaining monthly subbers accordingly. Gold Members and Lifers should get the following:
Increased EC from vendor gear sales, and anything in game that gives a small amount of straight EC as a reward like Doff missions etc.
Unlimited skill tree re-specs
Increased Dilithium rewards across the board for anything that awards dilithium in the game by a percentage.
Faster Run speed
Shorter Queue cool down times
and I'm sure there's other things I can think of.
Make it so! :cool:
I agree with your comments wholesale as I've been preaching the same thing from day one of the F2P TRIBBLE. My only bone of contention now is that even grinding is useless due to all the time gates goodness. So here I am a player that does not mind spending real money and lots of it on this game now has almost no interest in playing let alone spending anything.
I used to think I was exactly the type of player Cryptic wanted lots of with money and time (I hardly sleep) and a strong community orientation playing this game but now I think I'm exactly the opposite given that nearly every major system change since going F2P has worked against my interests as a player and community member.
Nonetheless I purchased the DR pack and will give it more time but I think my days in game are winding down. One thing is for sure my wallet wont be opening up so much or easily anymore since no matter how much I try to support the company they keep making my time in game less fun.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
Doff upgrinder
Nuked STF drops and dil
Tour the galaxy
Console fabrication
Foundry
Vendor trash
Cluster assignments
They pretty much spent the last 2 years consistently going after everything that would generate a profit right down to being pitiful enough to go after vendor trash.
All minus lockboxes and contraband for obvious reason.
I guess the good news is, there isn't anything left in the game to nerf?
For me personally I just laugh at it. Because from my perspective sure they might stop me from doing tour the galaxy or block me from using the doff system, but what that comes down to is, then I am not playing that character and what quickly follows is no reason to log in at all.
I think part of what is missing from the debate of Dil Rising is the time not spent on new content.
And I don't consider rebuying your old items and ships new content. Just like it's not longevity of content to nerf dil on STF to make it last longer to grind...
Essentially if you are not interested in un-official ships, what new content are you looking at?
A reputation system grind? Does that qualify as new?
I mainly doff at this point and I don't see that changing with Dil Rising, especially not with cutting your dil in half on STF or with every source of in-come in the game deleted.
They might look at it as a leakage they fix but to me they killed gameplay to the point we got few or no stones left to stand on
I play like 5 F2P games and without question, STO is the most generous. Not by leaps and bounds, but it is.
I just have to wonder if Cryptic is such a horrible greedy money hugry monster, then what does that make the dozens upon dozens of other develpoment teams out there with f2p games that make you pay for much more of their game's content than one has to in STO, and without the option to grind it out with in-game currency like the dilitithium exchange to boot?
They pretty much spent the last 2 years consistently going after everything that would generate a profit right down to being pitiful enough to go after vendor trash.
Addressing the overwhelming inflation in STO is definately warranted... 'Going after vendor trash' was likely just a first step...
Besides, I personally have noticed very little difference in overall revenue from vendor trash personally, maybe my experience here is unique, but it's had little to no effect on me personally...
I guess the good news is, there isn't anything left in the game to nerf?
For me personally I just laugh at it. Because from my perspective sure they might stop me from doing tour the galaxy or block me from using the doff system, but what that comes down to is, then I am not playing that character and what quickly follows is no reason to log in at all.
I think part of what is missing from the debate of Dil Rising is the time not spent on new content.
Time not spent of new content?
Please clarify, or are you referring to removal of redundant game systems, which Cryptic did not consider being up-to-scratch (such as exploration clusters) and the revamp of the Doff UI (albeit a UI I personally still do not like) so that it will be more easily accessible on the Gateway (eventually) - as many, many people have been longing for?
And I don't consider rebuying your old items and ships new content. Just like it's not longevity of content to nerf dil on STF to make it last longer to grind...
Essentially if you are not interested in un-official ships, what new content are you looking at?
A reputation system grind? Does that qualify as new?
So, what you're saying is that people want a level cap rise, but everything else should remain stagnant at T5 and Mk XII?
Given your usual tact, you'd have come out swinging that Cryptic were too lazy to bother adding a new tier of ships and Mk of items, no doubt...
I mainly doff at this point and I don't see that changing with Dil Rising, especially not with cutting your dil in half on STF or with every source of in-come in the game deleted.
They might look at it as a leakage they fix but to me they killed gameplay to the point we got few or no stones left to stand on
Contrived hyperbole... Nothing more than your opinions here...
I just have to wonder if Cryptic is such a horrible greedy money hugry monster, then what does that make the dozens upon dozens of other develpoment teams out there with f2p games that make you pay for much more of their game's content than one has to in STO, and without the option to grind it out with in-game currency like the dilitithium exchange to boot?
wonderful perfect people... or at least thats what I''m getting from some the posts.
it has alot less to do with what is being done then who is doing it. people have decided cryptic is a evil greed company and nothing anyone says or anything cryptic does will change their minds. even giving out free stuff fairly regularly is some how a dark evil plan to... make a profit.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
if you've played any of dr on tribble, or watched any of the vids, or read any of the posts from people who have, then you know 99% can be done in free t5 ships using existing gear. you don't need to upgrade to mk 13 or 14 gear. you don't need gold gear. you don't need to upgrade to a t6 ship. and even if you want that stuff you can grind for most of it if you're too cheap to spend a few bucks.
the op's like too many others: wants it even though he does not need it, and then's pissed that they can't get it all by playing only 5 minutes.
So 99%, or most of the content in DR can be done in ships we have now? with existing gear? What about the new DR queues and the new DR difficulties?
One the one hand *yay* we can do most of the content with existing ships and gear so we need to upgrade. On the other hand...oh no not again.
See one thing people forget very frequently is that there is a difference between saying "we can do [insert activity here] with the existing gear, and being able to say "we can practically do [Insert same activity here] in fewer than 20 hours per quest with the existing gear. I suspect that it will be extremely difficult through impossible to complete all the DR content without a T6 ship and better gear. Clearly STF65 has not played on Tribble as he does not posses any of this "knowledge" first hand. Additionally the devs are withholding the bulk of the content in DR (AKA not putting it on Tribble) for the release at which point Tribble will be wiped again. Thus the assertion he makes is not only baseless but is also in all probability incorrect...
As long as people keep playing and keep paying, there is really no reason for Cryptic to change.
Basically, if Cryptic is seeing no loss of income and instead an increase of income after a so called "nerf" to diltihium or EC earning, then all the complains in the world that say it made the game worse are simply irrelevant.
You have to vote with your wallet. And if you don't open your wallet, you have to vote by leaving the game. The less players the game has, the less likely other players will open their wallet.
If half your fleet has left the game, if queue wait times rise, if you can't find stuff on the Exchange because so few people put something there, then you may also go, or at least be more careful with your money.
Forum feedback can tell Cryptic how things turned worse and what they can do to improve the situation - but things actually have to turn worse for them before there is a reason to act.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
As long as people keep playing and keep paying, there is really no reason for Cryptic to change.
Basically, if Cryptic is seeing no loss of income and instead an increase of income after a so called "nerf" to diltihium or EC earning, then all the complains in the world that say it made the game worse are simply irrelevant.
You have to vote with your wallet. And if you don't open your wallet, you have to vote by leaving the game. The less players the game has, the less likely other players will open their wallet.
If half your fleet has left the game, if queue wait times rise, if you can't find stuff on the Exchange because so few people put something there, then you may also go, or at least be more careful with your money.
Forum feedback can tell Cryptic how things turned worse and what they can do to improve the situation - but things actually have to turn worse for them before there is a reason to act.
People have continually said how generous Cryptic's free to play model is and how that anything that's in game can be had without spending real money. Throughout the last several months, this statement has been less and less accurate.
With all the changes that have come over the last few months and the changes being implemented with DR it is harder than it has been in almost two years for an average player to get anything he wants without spending RL money.
EC is harder to earn. They're taking away loot drops from the end of STFs. For those that may not have gotten good drops or haven't paid attention this may not seem like a big deal but over the last two years I've gotten numerous purple MK XI and XII drops at the end and sold those on the exchange for a good amount of EC.
Not only is it more time consuming to earn dilithium, there are much more things that need dilithium to get than ever before. As someone who has found themselves turned into a "casual" by life circumstances and no longer able to devote 30-40 hours a week to the game a.k.a. "have it be your second job" getting new gear or ships through grinding is no longer an option for me.
I've said it in another thread but I've watched this game go from casual friendly to primarily benefiting those that are super grinders and those that are willing to dump lots of money and the players in between are left in a state of "why am I here?" limbo and mediocrity.
I've stepped off the gear treadmill and at this point I'm only logging in a hour here and there to do a cap&hold match if I can even get one, check on the fleet, and without new content to play there's really nothing to do that interest me.
I've realized that it makes much more sense to play a sub game like SWTOR, FF, or a single player game as those games can provide me with a much more enjoyable experience. This Free to play model is not sustainable long term.
I honestly don't mind spending money on a game, but IMO all of the prices are ridiculously high and things that should be a no-brainer as free for Gold or Lifers are not (Re-specs).
I'll keep my R&D training going and pew in a match here and there but probably won't play much until Delta Rising hits and there is brand new story content to play. Once I'm done with that stuff I'll be back to uber-casual till the next content update. Is this what you want Cryptic?
My proposed solution:
Increase the benefits of subbing Gold and going Lifetime across the board. Increase your revenue by gaining monthly subbers accordingly. Gold Members and Lifers should get the following:
Increased EC from vendor gear sales, and anything in game that gives a small amount of straight EC as a reward like Doff missions etc.
Unlimited skill tree re-specs
Increased Dilithium rewards across the board for anything that awards dilithium in the game by a percentage.
Faster Run speed
Shorter Queue cool down times
and I'm sure there's other things I can think of.
Make it so! :cool:
all of your points are invalid, you just choose to not adapt to new rules. your propositions dose not affect any one else but you (how much are you willing to pay for all that you accounted for? 20$, more?).
game is absolutely free, have no problems whit EC, dili. and zen (have enough zen to buy the DR pack), and i got it in reasonable time of game play, for free offcores.
basically you just wont everything handed over to you for a 1h gameplay of pvp.
you can feel free to go to another game and see how much "greener" is on there side.
You have to vote with your wallet. And if you don't open your wallet, you have to vote by leaving the game. The less players the game has, the less likely other players will open their wallet.
If half your fleet has left the game, if queue wait times rise, if you can't find stuff on the Exchange because so few people put something there, then you may also go, or at least be more careful with your money.
Forum feedback can tell Cryptic how things turned worse and what they can do to improve the situation - but things actually have to turn worse for them before there is a reason to act.
This may yet happen. I'm already seeing several ppl say they will be dropping (all but all) their alts, and/or just fly/upgrade a few ships, from here on in. So, whilst folks may be spending more now, per capita, I can't predict the effect of people massively shrinking their operation, as it were. One of the things I fear, though, is that ppl will one day simply stop playing altogether when they can now only use, say, 10% of all their gear and ships.
When this game came out to F2P, I said, that it was the ideal F2P model. not the best, because it was not totally free, with some items (OP even) locked behind a paywall. but because when this game went F2P, the dilithium sinks were not in place, you could save up for something from the shop, if you tried hard enough.
since then, PWE changed it, so you have to pay for most of the things, because you do not have enough resources. not only they added resource sinks, but they decreased your income as well.
I still stand by the model, it is just the developers, who exploit it (and they can, because this is the only decent star trek game on the market
Forum feedback can tell Cryptic how things turned worse and what they can do to improve the situation - but things actually have to turn worse for them before there is a reason to act.
Forum feedback tell cryptic nothing, since cryptic never listened to the forum player base. But i agree with you, the players are the only ones to blame for anything, not cryptic. But a lot of people keep trying to blame cryptic for all the nerfs, dil sinks and greedy behaviours they do. If people dont waste money, you will see how 2 things could happend -> the servers close / cryptic change their way of doing things to better. Honestly i prefer the servers closing instead of having a game in such a bad state like this. Unfortunately i noticed that this game is plagued with rich people who waste a lot of money in this game and kids that dont know what are they buying. So in the end, the incomes in cryptic are so big that they do what they want, period. And of course they will never listen to the player base, as they never did in the past because they have their incomes. Fortunately for em, they already know the player base of STO lol.
I just have to wonder if Cryptic is such a horrible greedy money hugry monster, then what does that make the dozens upon dozens of other develpoment teams out there with f2p games that make you pay for much more of their game's content than one has to in STO, and without the option to grind it out with in-game currency like the dilitithium exchange to boot?
Because STO is the most bugged mmorpg out there. Alll the money is invested in new content and broken stuff as far as i noticed instead of fixing things. This never happened in other mmorpg, sorry. And i always forget the incredible bad optimized game engine this game is used, i never saw a 4-5 years old game running so bad no matter what computer you have. Of course STO is the most generous game, its obvious the reason why. But people still didnt figure it out.. :P
No one felt "entitled" when they got 1440 Dil for an STF , nor when they got 960 Dil for an STF .
But when STF awards went from 1440 to 960 , there was the "stuffs" that we got next to the 960 that acted as a sort of compensation .
Then the "stuffs" got nerfed and you no longer had the chance to get more BNP's .
And now finally the Dil get's nerfed from 960 to 480 -- for the exact same effort .
Sorry if you're too short sighted to see it .
Shooting too many dinosaurs in a Star Trek game might have something to do with your gray matter going softer than usual ... .
Makes you think that despite his problems, Stahl was way more pro-player than D'Angelo -- who is turning this game into something that's trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
This may yet happen. I'm already seeing several ppl say they will be dropping (all but all) their alts, and/or just fly/upgrade a few ships, from here on in. So, whilst folks may be spending more now, per capita, I can't predict the effect of people massively shrinking their operation, as it were. One of the things I fear, though, is that ppl will one day simply stop playing altogether when they can now only use, say, 10% of all their gear and ships.
Tl;dr: Cryptic is taking a risky step with DR.
I've kind of taken this as a given. I have 4 characters and will still play all 4 extensively. However I will be doing 1 ship each and one set of equipment each for that ship. I hadn't considered how much more limiting this is. I was just thinking that it's all I am willing to pay.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
One of the points I try to make is the one about putting in work.
It's a trade, right?
They create something, we buy it. Boom, 1+1=2.
That's the problem with crafting-upgrading-t5u. All of that is recycled content that didn't require any work - they haven't created anything.
You could even go as far as to say some of the weapons animations you are paying 100,000s of dil for under the upgrading regime they might not even have made themselves, that's how old that is.
Additionally, "dil for time", "time as a resource". What happened to that exactly?
You used to get dil for wasting time on reputations, why aren't you getting dil for the new reputation timegates aka upgrading and crafting by any other name?
Plus now cutting the dil reward for STF maps in half?
Is someone running out of time here? What's with the desperation?
My personal theory is t6 ships is the desperation.
Or more precisely the un-official ships are the possibly greatest fear as of yet in the game.
Because if they can't find a way to make the un-official ships sell, it's game over and minor stuff as the dil for STFs won't matter.
And I believe that is the current focus and it's the only and one thing they worry about and that this is the day they have been ulcering" about for years.
And if you think a little more deeply about it, this is where the question is answered about the star trek license carrying the game vs. the developers' own ideas and design can stand on its own feet.
The whole game now has to break all or any rule and conform to the fact that they, not "want to sell the un-official ships", but absolutely desperately HAVE TO sell the un-licensed ships.
Balderdash. And those who know me know I don't throw around such foul language easily.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Doff upgrinder
Nuked STF drops and dil
Tour the galaxy
Console fabrication
Foundry
Vendor trash
Cluster assignments
They pretty much spent the last 2 years consistently going after everything that would generate a profit right down to being pitiful enough to go after vendor trash.
All minus lockboxes and contraband for obvious reason.
Not sure what you mean about contraband ... , as I'm pretty sure it's on the list for the chopping block .
I guess the good news is, there isn't anything left in the game to nerf?
They are getting close ... .
The Borg STF's always stood out ... , and instead of raising the floor by adding their awards to all the other queues , they hammered them down and added their (now pitiful) awards to the queues .
I think part of what is missing from the debate of Dil Rising is the time not spent on new content.
That's because many of us have not been on Tribble , nor is all of the new content on Tribble .
My supposition was that within a month we'll be back playing the 4+ year old Borg STF's .
The Dil hit they took with DR makes me doubt that a bit .
Ppl will still play the missions because they are fun ... , but not those who grinded them for Dill .. , or at least not some of those .
I played them both because they are fun and awarded ok .
But now I honestly don't really know what I'll be doing in a month after DR arrives .
And that does not make me feel comfortable , as I have no other game (or game play within STO) to fall back on .
That's the problem with crafting-upgrading-t5u. All of that is recycled content that didn't require any work - they haven't created anything.
And then there's that ... .
But considering that since the Doff System was introduced , it was the basis for the Starbases , Fleet Assets , the Reputation System , the New Crafting System -- well you could say that for a long-long time , Cryptic has been a one trick pony .
Doff upgrinder
Nuked STF drops and dil
Tour the galaxy
Console fabrication
Foundry
Vendor trash
Cluster assignments
They pretty much spent the last 2 years consistently going after everything that would generate a profit right down to being pitiful enough to go after vendor trash.
Comments
^- that's mostly true. I do like some of the added stuff they did with the Borg missions. It's not all that I had hoped for but not the worst either. I just know that it will happen like it always does where Cryptic will pull some silly marketing scheme that they think rocks, TRIBBLE me off and I'll get bored with the game so shelf it til the next expansion.
*In a weird way, I'm more upset that they haven't offered up anything for the expansion that isn't terribly priced but makes me want to open my wallet. LoR did that. I know it sounds weird, but I feel better about paying for things like this because I feel like that will bring more of it. But with everything I have seen thus far in the dev blogs, I may not pay even cent for DR because there's nothing of value** in it for me.
** aside from the content btw.
The ships and upgrades and such definitely won't get me to pay.
The only reason I'm hoping I can afford something is that I want to give something for the story missions and for the voice actors. To me, that's worth a lot. The ships I can live without, and the upgrades I think are too expensive, though I will admit maxed out stuff is really impressive, far more powerful than fleet 12 gear. Its not just 3 steps up, its more like 8 steps. Still, nothing in value compared to nearly doubling the number of trek actors to be in the game.
Its not about that anymore. Its about the direction this game is headed since time ago. Of course, you can play this game for 10 years and you will be still trying to achieve everything you want (this is just an example, dont take it literally), you are not in a hurry...
Myself and the many others I see throughout the forums saying basically the same thing, the "royal" we,... your attempt to pick apart a logical, truthful argument and reason by cherry picking individual pieces and nuances of language to prove the argument wrong and you correct, are destined to fail.
P.S.
If you don't know what "royal we" means, google it. I am in no way saying I or anyone else is any form of royalty and therefore must be given undue deference.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Gotta agree with this! No other mmo I've ever played that is f2p offers any way to really earn game store currency like STO does with earning Zen.
'A logical, truthful argument'?! I didn't see any. All I saw was the usual Kindergarten grandstanding, based on being technically right only; you know, cheapshots, like how Cryptic doesn't literally MAKE you buy anything, or how you really CAN do everything without rl money (even though it would take ages, and be impossible to do for most, time-wise alone). Every thread like this, there's always someone throwing in these precise two faux pearls of wisdom. And I'm getting tired of it.
Meanwhile, the grown-ups in this forum are trying to discuss whether the DR cost is reasonable. You know, whether RND should pertain to everything, or just the outcome of the rarity; and the cost of huge tech upgrades vs. the chance of not getting anything. Etc. But yeah, you just go ahead and throw in these faux empowerment statements, and think you're saying something 'logical and truthful.'
Cost being reasonable is an entirely separate issue. Your OP title suggested that with DR, STO is no longer free to play. That is patently false. My assertion earlier that while it may not be quick or easy, it is doable, is 100% true and factual.
I can't help that you don't like the answer, but that doesn't make the answer less true.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Erm, I didn't start this topic.
As for the title of the OP's thread, I think it will prove really hard for ppl to do this without investing some rl money; to the point where 'technically doable' and 'comfortably' are far, far apart. Then again, I've never been opposed to P2W, really: I love buying shiny stuff. I just think with DR Cryptic may be taking it a bit too far, is all.
And if it turns out to work like this in relation to Normal, Advanced and Elite, then the system can be considered to be working...
I don't support limiting access, however, I definitely support the move to include harder difficulty modes for those who wish greater challenge...
If this then results in complaints that people are missing out on content, all I will say is they need to stop and consider why this has happened... Why should I be denied the challenge I desire because they are not upto the task? How is that fair for me and my gaming experience?
If those people who just want to face-roll through STO want to experience the new, more difficult content, they may just have to pick their face up off their keyboard and learn how things actually work...
Might sound harsh, but I'm just being honest here... I've heard many of these same arguments during my years raiding in WoW...
I never understood why my enjoyment, and that of my guild mates - we were not hard-core raiders but definitely serious about it - should suffer so that people who don't want to put in the effort can 'experience the content' also...
The ongoing dumbing down of raiding had alot to do with why I stopped playing...
I agree with your comments wholesale as I've been preaching the same thing from day one of the F2P TRIBBLE. My only bone of contention now is that even grinding is useless due to all the time gates goodness. So here I am a player that does not mind spending real money and lots of it on this game now has almost no interest in playing let alone spending anything.
I used to think I was exactly the type of player Cryptic wanted lots of with money and time (I hardly sleep) and a strong community orientation playing this game but now I think I'm exactly the opposite given that nearly every major system change since going F2P has worked against my interests as a player and community member.
Nonetheless I purchased the DR pack and will give it more time but I think my days in game are winding down. One thing is for sure my wallet wont be opening up so much or easily anymore since no matter how much I try to support the company they keep making my time in game less fun.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Doff upgrinder
Nuked STF drops and dil
Tour the galaxy
Console fabrication
Foundry
Vendor trash
Cluster assignments
They pretty much spent the last 2 years consistently going after everything that would generate a profit right down to being pitiful enough to go after vendor trash.
All minus lockboxes and contraband for obvious reason.
I guess the good news is, there isn't anything left in the game to nerf?
For me personally I just laugh at it. Because from my perspective sure they might stop me from doing tour the galaxy or block me from using the doff system, but what that comes down to is, then I am not playing that character and what quickly follows is no reason to log in at all.
I think part of what is missing from the debate of Dil Rising is the time not spent on new content.
And I don't consider rebuying your old items and ships new content. Just like it's not longevity of content to nerf dil on STF to make it last longer to grind...
Essentially if you are not interested in un-official ships, what new content are you looking at?
A reputation system grind? Does that qualify as new?
I mainly doff at this point and I don't see that changing with Dil Rising, especially not with cutting your dil in half on STF or with every source of in-come in the game deleted.
They might look at it as a leakage they fix but to me they killed gameplay to the point we got few or no stones left to stand on
I just have to wonder if Cryptic is such a horrible greedy money hugry monster, then what does that make the dozens upon dozens of other develpoment teams out there with f2p games that make you pay for much more of their game's content than one has to in STO, and without the option to grind it out with in-game currency like the dilitithium exchange to boot?
Addressing the overwhelming inflation in STO is definately warranted... 'Going after vendor trash' was likely just a first step...
Besides, I personally have noticed very little difference in overall revenue from vendor trash personally, maybe my experience here is unique, but it's had little to no effect on me personally...
Why is contraband excluded? What obvious reasons?
Time not spent of new content?
Please clarify, or are you referring to removal of redundant game systems, which Cryptic did not consider being up-to-scratch (such as exploration clusters) and the revamp of the Doff UI (albeit a UI I personally still do not like) so that it will be more easily accessible on the Gateway (eventually) - as many, many people have been longing for?
So, what you're saying is that people want a level cap rise, but everything else should remain stagnant at T5 and Mk XII?
Given your usual tact, you'd have come out swinging that Cryptic were too lazy to bother adding a new tier of ships and Mk of items, no doubt...
Contrived hyperbole... Nothing more than your opinions here...
wonderful perfect people... or at least thats what I''m getting from some the posts.
it has alot less to do with what is being done then who is doing it. people have decided cryptic is a evil greed company and nothing anyone says or anything cryptic does will change their minds. even giving out free stuff fairly regularly is some how a dark evil plan to... make a profit.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
See one thing people forget very frequently is that there is a difference between saying "we can do [insert activity here] with the existing gear, and being able to say "we can practically do [Insert same activity here] in fewer than 20 hours per quest with the existing gear. I suspect that it will be extremely difficult through impossible to complete all the DR content without a T6 ship and better gear. Clearly STF65 has not played on Tribble as he does not posses any of this "knowledge" first hand. Additionally the devs are withholding the bulk of the content in DR (AKA not putting it on Tribble) for the release at which point Tribble will be wiped again. Thus the assertion he makes is not only baseless but is also in all probability incorrect...
Basically, if Cryptic is seeing no loss of income and instead an increase of income after a so called "nerf" to diltihium or EC earning, then all the complains in the world that say it made the game worse are simply irrelevant.
You have to vote with your wallet. And if you don't open your wallet, you have to vote by leaving the game. The less players the game has, the less likely other players will open their wallet.
If half your fleet has left the game, if queue wait times rise, if you can't find stuff on the Exchange because so few people put something there, then you may also go, or at least be more careful with your money.
Forum feedback can tell Cryptic how things turned worse and what they can do to improve the situation - but things actually have to turn worse for them before there is a reason to act.
Stop ruining the forums with your logic:P
all of your points are invalid, you just choose to not adapt to new rules. your propositions dose not affect any one else but you (how much are you willing to pay for all that you accounted for? 20$, more?).
game is absolutely free, have no problems whit EC, dili. and zen (have enough zen to buy the DR pack), and i got it in reasonable time of game play, for free offcores.
basically you just wont everything handed over to you for a 1h gameplay of pvp.
you can feel free to go to another game and see how much "greener" is on there side.
This may yet happen. I'm already seeing several ppl say they will be dropping (all but all) their alts, and/or just fly/upgrade a few ships, from here on in. So, whilst folks may be spending more now, per capita, I can't predict the effect of people massively shrinking their operation, as it were. One of the things I fear, though, is that ppl will one day simply stop playing altogether when they can now only use, say, 10% of all their gear and ships.
Tl;dr: Cryptic is taking a risky step with DR.
When this game came out to F2P, I said, that it was the ideal F2P model. not the best, because it was not totally free, with some items (OP even) locked behind a paywall. but because when this game went F2P, the dilithium sinks were not in place, you could save up for something from the shop, if you tried hard enough.
since then, PWE changed it, so you have to pay for most of the things, because you do not have enough resources. not only they added resource sinks, but they decreased your income as well.
I still stand by the model, it is just the developers, who exploit it (and they can, because this is the only decent star trek game on the market
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Forum feedback tell cryptic nothing, since cryptic never listened to the forum player base. But i agree with you, the players are the only ones to blame for anything, not cryptic. But a lot of people keep trying to blame cryptic for all the nerfs, dil sinks and greedy behaviours they do. If people dont waste money, you will see how 2 things could happend -> the servers close / cryptic change their way of doing things to better. Honestly i prefer the servers closing instead of having a game in such a bad state like this. Unfortunately i noticed that this game is plagued with rich people who waste a lot of money in this game and kids that dont know what are they buying. So in the end, the incomes in cryptic are so big that they do what they want, period. And of course they will never listen to the player base, as they never did in the past because they have their incomes. Fortunately for em, they already know the player base of STO lol.
Because STO is the most bugged mmorpg out there. Alll the money is invested in new content and broken stuff as far as i noticed instead of fixing things. This never happened in other mmorpg, sorry. And i always forget the incredible bad optimized game engine this game is used, i never saw a 4-5 years old game running so bad no matter what computer you have. Of course STO is the most generous game, its obvious the reason why. But people still didnt figure it out.. :P
To the choir of "enlightened" individuals :
No one felt "entitled" when they got 1440 Dil for an STF , nor when they got 960 Dil for an STF .
But when STF awards went from 1440 to 960 , there was the "stuffs" that we got next to the 960 that acted as a sort of compensation .
Then the "stuffs" got nerfed and you no longer had the chance to get more BNP's .
And now finally the Dil get's nerfed from 960 to 480 -- for the exact same effort .
Sorry if you're too short sighted to see it .
Shooting too many dinosaurs in a Star Trek game might have something to do with your gray matter going softer than usual ... .
Yeah ... something like that ... .
I've kind of taken this as a given. I have 4 characters and will still play all 4 extensively. However I will be doing 1 ship each and one set of equipment each for that ship. I hadn't considered how much more limiting this is. I was just thinking that it's all I am willing to pay.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's a trade, right?
They create something, we buy it. Boom, 1+1=2.
That's the problem with crafting-upgrading-t5u. All of that is recycled content that didn't require any work - they haven't created anything.
You could even go as far as to say some of the weapons animations you are paying 100,000s of dil for under the upgrading regime they might not even have made themselves, that's how old that is.
Additionally, "dil for time", "time as a resource". What happened to that exactly?
You used to get dil for wasting time on reputations, why aren't you getting dil for the new reputation timegates aka upgrading and crafting by any other name?
Plus now cutting the dil reward for STF maps in half?
Is someone running out of time here? What's with the desperation?
My personal theory is t6 ships is the desperation.
Or more precisely the un-official ships are the possibly greatest fear as of yet in the game.
Because if they can't find a way to make the un-official ships sell, it's game over and minor stuff as the dil for STFs won't matter.
And I believe that is the current focus and it's the only and one thing they worry about and that this is the day they have been ulcering" about for years.
And if you think a little more deeply about it, this is where the question is answered about the star trek license carrying the game vs. the developers' own ideas and design can stand on its own feet.
The whole game now has to break all or any rule and conform to the fact that they, not "want to sell the un-official ships", but absolutely desperately HAVE TO sell the un-licensed ships.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Not sure what you mean about contraband ... , as I'm pretty sure it's on the list for the chopping block .
They are getting close ... .
The Borg STF's always stood out ... , and instead of raising the floor by adding their awards to all the other queues , they hammered them down and added their (now pitiful) awards to the queues .
That's because many of us have not been on Tribble , nor is all of the new content on Tribble .
My supposition was that within a month we'll be back playing the 4+ year old Borg STF's .
The Dil hit they took with DR makes me doubt that a bit .
Ppl will still play the missions because they are fun ... , but not those who grinded them for Dill .. , or at least not some of those .
I played them both because they are fun and awarded ok .
But now I honestly don't really know what I'll be doing in a month after DR arrives .
And that does not make me feel comfortable , as I have no other game (or game play within STO) to fall back on .
And then there's that ... .
But considering that since the Doff System was introduced , it was the basis for the Starbases , Fleet Assets , the Reputation System , the New Crafting System -- well you could say that for a long-long time , Cryptic has been a one trick pony .
Well said! And true, of course.