Did anyone ever think about why we buy our weapons in shacks on the market?

angrytarg

Seriously. If I want to issue standard gear to my crew I find my disruptor rifles and bat'leths on first cities grocery market, right next to the targ milk and gagh. Who thought this was a good idea?

dirlettia

And that is why Qo'nos never gets invaded by the Federation. They know full well that even the younglings have at least 3 weapons each.

We are the KDF and not a sneaky organisation who pretend to be peaceful while building warships in secret.

adverbero

Maybe the guy on the market stall makes hand built bespoke Weapons that are of good quality

Remember, anything you buy after recieving the first bunch on the ship isn't standard Issue

magnumstar

If you're going to buy food you may as well get something to cook it with. A disruptor pistol is the Klingon version of the redneck barbeque, just remember to set your pistol on the lowest setting to prevent disintergrating your targ steak.

peetapipmac

dirlettia wrote: »

And that is why Qo'nos never gets invaded by the Federation. They know full well that even the younglings have at least 3 weapons each.

We are the KDF and not a sneaky organisation who pretend to be peaceful while building warships in secret.

Younglings!?! What kinda Jedi **** are you talking about?

shpoks

angrytarg wrote: »

Seriously. If I want to issue standard gear to my crew I find my disruptor rifles and bat'leths on first cities grocery market, right next to the targ milk and gagh. Who thought this was a good idea?

I'd say the same person that thought selling phaser blaster rifles to anyone and everyone at a Federation space station was a good idea.

khan5000

Buying weapons in a grocery store sounds very Klingon

thunderfoot

I guess the Devs were trying for a marketplace or open air bazaar type feeling? Kinda does need a revamp though. What with all those counterfeit Lirpas on K7 or the dodgy knockoff bat'leths circulating around the Dyson Zone. "Antiques" my foot! None of them have ever been with a thousand kellicams of a Dahar Master who was QeylIss' right hand man.

icsairguns

khan5000 wrote: »

Buying weapons in a grocery store sounds very Klingon

many grocery stores sell weapons where i live. its just not a big deal. gives me something to look at while my wife is wondering around the store for other things.

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angrytarg

patrickngo wrote: »

obviously, Klingons, but I'd argue there are quite a few places on earth that think it's a fine idea as well-and you don't need to go to the Third World to find them.

One thing it DOES demonstrate, is that the usual path to tyranny is short-circuited in the Klingon culture-because nobody has a monopoly on force on Qo'noS, or exclusive means of control over the means of force.

It is far harder for any ideological nutjob to impose his or her 'vision of the future' on the Klingon people, because people prone to disagree with it, have the means to make their disagreement known and the means to say "No" and make it stick.

in simple terms, even the discommended are not helplessly at the hands of the State, and when the State moves, it truly does move as one. (...)

Uuuh... weapons being widely available does in no way prevent "tyranny" for happening. I'm not going into RL politics here, only some RL history because the Klingon Empire is based on that.

See the middle ages in Europe and Asia. I think it is pretty safe to assume that weaponry was widely available to anyone, yet that didn't prevent anyone from being tyrannized. Just with the klingons, the thing that keeps the population "easy" is the feudal system. Klingon politics and society are controlled by noble houses, those basically own the towns and cities, battlefleets, legislative, judicative and executive. The only place maybe being an exception is First City, as it might be some "neutral ground". Everywhere else the houses control the populace via force in one way or the other and last but not least the houses keep each other in check. House wars are quite common, but in order to take over you need the support of other houses which all would want to rather take the initiative themselves just like feudal societies in Europe or Asia (Japan is a prime example) proof.

What I find silly about the market place is the medieval fantasy orc image that Cryptic seemingly wants to force on the KDF faction, but I don't mean visuals here (in contrast to another thread in this forum) but the fact that we are to believe that klingon captains buy their weapons on a surface based market shack/tent Sure, there is a lot of black marketing and corruption, so you will get your weapons in Klingon society. But shouldn't the KDF forces be supplied via KDF starbases and such?

magnumstar

angrytarg wrote: »

Uuuh... weapons being widely available does in no way prevent "tyranny" for happening. I'm not going into RL politics here, only some RL history because the Klingon Empire is based on that.

See the middle ages in Europe and Asia. I think it is pretty safe to assume that weaponry was widely available to anyone, yet that didn't prevent anyone from being tyrannized. Just with the klingons, the thing that keeps the population "easy" is the feudal system. Klingon politics and society are controlled by noble houses, those basically own the towns and cities, battlefleets, legislative, judicative and executive. The only place maybe being an exception is First City, as it might be some "neutral ground". Everywhere else the houses control the populace via force in one way or the other and last but not least the houses keep each other in check. House wars are quite common, but in order to take over you need the support of other houses which all would want to rather take the initiative themselves just like feudal societies in Europe or Asia (Japan is a prime example) proof.

What I find silly about the market place is the medieval fantasy orc image that Cryptic seemingly wants to force on the KDF faction, but I don't mean visuals here (in contrast to another thread in this forum) but the fact that we are to believe that klingon captains buy their weapons on a surface based market shack/tent Sure, there is a lot of black marketing and corruption, so you will get your weapons in Klingon society. But shouldn't the KDF forces be supplied via KDF starbases and such?

In the middle ages weapons weren't widely available to the common class of people and this is true in Asian counties as well and particularly in Japan. Only nobles and fighting men of nobles could own and openly carry weapons. The peasantry would've been lucky to own a hunting bow and knife and that's about it, poor defense against armored men with swords and spears. Turkish and Mongol tribesmen of this time as well as the Vikings of an earlier time period the populous were all armed but they were more of a tribal/clannish than Feudal type government so tyranny wouldn't be a factor. And if it was it wouldn't be a factor for long. I blame fantasy rpg's for the illusion of everyone running around with swords wearing chain mail, history though states otherwise.

I'm not sure what type of governemnt you could classify the Klingons as having because it has elements of a Roman Republic, feudalism, and a bit of the ole clannish/tribal style of leadership. As for an armed populous not being a factor in detering tyranny I need only point to Texas and the whole sordid ordeal of the govt chasing/killing cows off of open grazing land. If the populous wouldn't have shown up in force armed to the teeth to oppose them then the govt would've just ignored them and continued doing what they were. I won't debate the politics more than that since I believe it speaks for itself.

As for selling groceries along with firearms and other weapons where I live its pretty common as well. Our local tire service place has a gun store attached to it as well, I bought my first assault rifle there. But I get your point about the orc amrket not being needed. I always wondered why we had to buy weapons and equipment when this kind of stuff should be issued. Common quality stuff, except consumables, should be issued items we could get without charge. It's not like common stuff is the cutting edge gear.

angrytarg

magnumstar wrote: »

(...) I'm not sure what type of governemnt you could classify the Klingons as having because it has elements of a Roman Republic, feudalism, and a bit of the ole clannish/tribal style of leadership. As for an armed populous not being a factor in detering tyranny I need only point to Texas and the whole sordid ordeal of the govt chasing/killing cows off of open grazing land. If the populous wouldn't have shown up in force armed to the teeth to oppose them then the govt would've just ignored them and continued doing what they were. I won't debate the politics more than that since I believe it speaks for itself. (...)

The Klingon political systems seems to be a carbon copy of feudal Japan in my opinion. You have great houses which are basically clans as in entities led by a single family. All of those have their own subordinates (minor houses) armies, lands and resources. You have an emperor/chancellor (as Khaless really doesn't do anything anymore) and a council. The houses more or less just get along because all of them would ally against one house that gains too much power and all of them seem to be in a constant state of petty infighting, espionage and sabotage. The KDF and First City seem to be the equivalent of the late japanese imperial army as it is an imperial body completely made up from individual houses contributions (additionally to each houses private army) but I imagine that the KDF and the chancellor doesn't hold much power on a houses territory.

I won't comment on the RL arms issue either, I think that's for the best

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staq16

angrytarg wrote: »

What I find silly about the market place is the medieval fantasy orc image that Cryptic seemingly wants to force on the KDF faction, but I don't mean visuals here (in contrast to another thread in this forum) but the fact that we are to believe that klingon captains buy their weapons on a surface based market shack/tent Sure, there is a lot of black marketing and corruption, so you will get your weapons in Klingon society. But shouldn't the KDF forces be supplied via KDF starbases and such?

To be fair to Cryptic, the pseudo-medieval look of the Klingon city is taken from the shows, not something they've invented. And in Trek's context, it's nice contrast to the super-squeaky clean look of the Federation, showing how a technologically advanced society can still favour a more "traditional" appearance.

Anyway, even in game mechanic terms, the stalls and vendors make sense. You can buy low quality (white) personal weapons and gear from them - like walking into a civilian gun shop. On the other hand, if you want starship weapons - you've got to go to the starbase. And for serious military gear, you've got to go through the KDF in some form, whether it's Honor Guard requsitions, a fleet starbase, or mission rewards.