Full T6 upgrade path.

lobaner

This post is a request to the community to push for a full T6 upgrade path for our zen/lobi ships.

I am not asking for a free/easy upgrade. I am asking that we try to make the devs/financiers see how attached we are to our characters, and ask them for a path to improvement.

Not everyone has been playing this game for years and has stores of dilithium/zen/lobi just waiting for new hotness. Those players will buy new ship types regardless.

As a person who just recently invested in several ships weeks in advance of the surprise announcement of the expansion the feeling that I am being cheated is not easy to shake.

In a sci-fi game full of modular technology there is no reasonable explaination I can think of for scores of ships being obsolesced instead of retrofit. If they can put a t5u upgrade system in place they can obviously pull off a full T6.

Devs have stated that ships are space map characters. They carry equipment just as our land characters do. I don't see our land characters getting put in the less than column, and the comparison chart they posted clearly puts T5u < T6.


To those who bought the "bells and whistles" spin they put on the announcement...I really hope you are right. I like this game and hope to continue liking it. That would be easier with my recently purchased ships, and without that sinking feeling when I lose an investment.

Thank you for your time.

jarodroto123

lobaner wrote: »

This post is a request to the community to push for a full T6 upgrade path for our zen/lobi ships.

I am not asking for a free/easy upgrade. I am asking that we try to make the devs/financiers see how attached we are to our characters, and ask them for a path to improvement.

Not everyone has been playing this game for years and has stores of dilithium/zen/lobi just waiting for new hotness. Those players will buy new ship types regardless.

As a person who just recently invested in several ships weeks in advance of the surprise announcement of the expansion the feeling that I am being cheated is not easy to shake.

In a sci-fi game full of modular technology there is no reasonable explaination I can think of for scores of ships being obsolesced instead of retrofit. If they can put a t5u upgrade system in place they can obviously pull off a full T6.

Devs have stated that ships are space map characters. They carry equipment just as our land characters do. I don't see our land characters getting put in the less than column, and the comparison chart they posted clearly puts T5u < T6.


To those who bought the "bells and whistles" spin they put on the announcement...I really hope you are right. I like this game and hope to continue liking it. That would be easier with my recently purchased ships, and without that sinking feeling when I lose an investment.

Thank you for your time.

already posted to death and shot down so many times, i expect to see it on the FCT soon. Personally i take the unpopular stance of NO full T-6 upgrades should happen

bobbydazlers

I quite agree with a full T6 upgrade, its bad enough they are charging us zen to upgrade these ships in the first place at least make these upgrades mean something, if I have to pay 500zen for a hallway upgrade a least give the option of a 1000zen fee for a full T6 upgrade.
they don't have to redesign the ship, all that is altered it the status page for that ship, if they can do it for an upgrade from T5 to T5u they can just as easy do it for a T5 to T6 upgrade.

I can tell you this now I will not be upgrading any of my C-store T5 ships but if they give the option to upgrade to T6 I would do every one of them.

duncanidaho11

jarodroto123 wrote: »

already posted to death and shot down so many times, i expect to see it on the FCT soon. Personally i take the unpopular stance of NO full T-6 upgrades should happen

Indeed not. OP you know what the only difference is between T5-U and T6? The fifth mastery trait and special boff seating (which I do consider the "extra" seat as being). If cryptic wasn't willing to give us those in T5-U (because 1. they don't want to have to make dozens of new ship mastery abilities and 2. they apparently don't want to retroactively add a new boff type to ALL previous builds) why the hell would they through an additional system?

lobaner wrote: »

cters. They carry equipment just as our land characters do. I don't see our land characters getting put in the less than column, and the comparison chart they posted clearly puts T5u < T6.

My scimitar and fleet sovereign are still better ships than their T6 warbird/cruiser counterparts (and I suspect they will remain so when they eventually introduce T6-Fleet). Check the stats in a little more detail.

leviathan99

While I agree, I think they probably need to upgrade ships only as relevant specialist BOs can be created. Not every ship makes sense with an espionage specialists.

Some specializations may end up being very small and have fewer abilities according to devs so I can see where that might not take as long as you'd think.

For example, maybe a Temporal Mechanics BOff for the timeships, ambassador, and Krenim ships that just has 2-3 new abilities and a new mastery trait on those ships.

Then maybe a bartender, entertainer, or civilian specialist for the Galaxy, Orion ships, etc.

For there to be a T6 upgrade path, you need the hybrid BO to match the ship. So I hope it happens but can see it happening in waves.

bobbydazlers

stoleviathan99 wrote: »

While I agree, I think they probably need to upgrade ships only as relevant specialist BOs can be created. Not every ship makes sense with an espionage specialists.

Some specializations may end up being very small and have fewer abilities according to devs so I can see where that might not take as long as you'd think.

For example, maybe a Temporal Mechanics BOff for the timeships, ambassador, and Krenim ships that just has 2-3 new abilities and a new mastery trait on those ships.

Then maybe a bartender, entertainer, or civilian specialist for the Galaxy, Orion ships, etc.

For there to be a T6 upgrade path, you need the hybrid BO to match the ship. So I hope it happens but can see it happening in waves.

it should be noted - **All Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will come with a Specialist Bridge Officer seat.
However, it should be noted that future Tier 6 ships may not always come with one.

so there is no reason they need to be added for a T5 to T6 upgrade.
given this the only difference between a T5u upgrade and a T6 upgrade is 1 extra mastery level, the ship trait and the additional boff ability.
im sure it would take them all of a day to add that in to the current stats.

even then they do not even need to do it ready for DR launch but if we knew in was coming it would be something.

duncanidaho11

stoleviathan99 wrote: »

For there to be a T6 upgrade path, you need the hybrid BO to match the ship. So I hope it happens but can see it happening in waves.

I can't. Would you really be satisfied waiting for expansion 4 to have an appropriate T6 Galaxy X? No, you'd be happy with the second or third most appropriate choice if it means that you can have your T6 refit sooner. That just about sinks this idea because you can't justify a wave-based approach. The ideal choice [in all likelihood] isn't going to be made and once you're trying to work out how you can justify a fleet ops/temporal investigation/trading/cooking/animal husbandry Fleet Patrol Escort you're hardly any better off than trying to justify intel abilities.

AND you're still facing the same problem of retroactively adding new boff powers across a wide range of existing ships (multiplying the scale of the balancing problem as compared to much more focused c-store releases) which is going to make it much more difficult for the devs to find a happy balancing point for those abilities (as it essentially becomes a process of endless accommodation) and to invent new builds (since across the range of existing T5 ships you're bound to have something that does intel/command/deep frying nearly as well as the new release if only given that seat) which DIRECTLY UNDERMINES THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS EXERCISE (new ship classes, more room to build, more reason to care about what comes out next.)

rinkster

stoleviathan99 wrote: »

While I agree, I think they probably need to upgrade ships only as relevant specialist BOs can be created. Not every ship makes sense with an espionage specialists.

Fair point.

As specialisations are created, then also create paths to full T6 alongside to take advantage of them.

Temporal mechanic stuff for the timeships.

Perhaps a more general carrier ops speciality for some ships.


It would make sense for this sort of thing to start happening when the fleet T6s emerge.

Give them something to fight against.

a3001

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

Indeed not. OP you know what the only difference is between T5-U and T6?

It is for this sole reason that I do not support the OP's suggestion.

catoblepasbeta

People who think that Specialist boffs are a no-go because they wouldn't 'fit' with the old ships need to be reminded that the Guardian class can seat Intel boffs, but the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer cannot.

So thematics has very little to do with it.

Honestly, the bulk of the specialist boff problem could be avoided if Cryptic just let Universal Boff seats use specialist boffs.

chiyoumiku

Stop. Posting. This. Suggestion. Over. And. Over.

rinkster

chiyoumiku wrote: »

Stop. Posting. This. Suggestion. Over. And. Over.

If you're goig for the full shatner, you need to stagger your '.'s a bit more.

Stop. Posting this. Suggestion. Over. And over.

Shatnerian, its an art.

dkeith2011

In my opinion the general T6 abilities and the specific Intelligence ship abilities are too muddled together and should be separated.

The hybrid BOff slot should be unique to the Intelligence ships and all the other details should constitute the T6 upgrade.

The ships coming with DR would be the first T6 ships AND the first Intelligence ships. Future releases could be both, either or neither of those.

Each class of ship (Escort, Cruiser or Science) should receive specific stat enhancements with the T6 upgrade and carry a specific Trait unlock with Mastery.

imruined

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

People who think that Specialist boffs are a no-go because they wouldn't 'fit' with the old ships need to be reminded that the Guardian class can seat Intel boffs, but the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer cannot.

So thematics has very little to do with it.

Honestly, the bulk of the specialist boff problem could be avoided if Cryptic just let Universal Boff seats use specialist boffs.

And the reason they won't do this is that KDF Birds of Prey would then make a mockery of the Specalist Boff 'system'...

On a side note, if you're implying the Adapted Destroyer should have access to Intel Boffs because it has the term 'Tal Shiar' in it's title, it's a weak argument as it could also be argued that, by their very nature, all Romulan ships should have access to Intelligence Boffs...

I use the Adapted Battlecruiser, I see no reason why this should receive Intelligence Boff stations over any other T5 vessel...

catoblepasbeta

imruined wrote: »

And the reason they won't do this is that KDF Birds of Prey would then make a mockery of the Specalist Boff 'system'...

On a side note, if you're implying the Adapted Destroyer should have access to Intel Boffs because it has the term 'Tal Shiar' in it's title, it's a weak argument as it could also be argued that, by their very nature, all Romulan ships should have access to Intelligence Boffs...

I use the Adapted Battlecruiser, I see no reason why this should receive Intelligence Boff stations over any other T5 vessel...

I was just using it as an example of a ship that has a greater claim to being able to use intelligence boffs than the Guardian.

IMO all T5u ships should be able to use specialist boffs.

Birds of prey are supposed to be versatile.

duncanidaho11

catoblepasbeta wrote: »

People who think that Specialist boffs are a no-go because they wouldn't 'fit' with the old ships need to be reminded that the Guardian class can seat Intel boffs, but the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer cannot.

So? One new ship, one old ship. The problem is definitely not that any given build couldn't handle them, its that with a new boff type across ALL ships balance and strategy in this game are going to be affected GLOBALLY (instead of in just one sub-section of the shipyard.) That's a very large scale problem and one that cryptic rightly decided not to bank on a successful outcome.

Look at it this way, if Intel boffs in space combat prove to be a problem Cryptic only has to worry about tweaking it for 8 ships, not [however many we have now.] Its a more conservative strategy that helps the game not to break (or at least be fixed more easily which you would think the forums could appreciate.)

Furthermore, it creates ship specialization (above any level we've seen so far) which gives cryptic the creative licence to produce ships like the guardian that would more or less be obsolete on launch day if you gave a fleet sovereign, ambassador, or excelsior any form of specialist boff seating.

Compartmentalizing T6 is definitely the way to make this work. More room for everyone to play and less chance of it all blowing up in our faces.