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Set Bonii Increase With Upgrades?
mightybobcnc
Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
Say I upgrade my XII Omega Force ground set to XIV Gold quality. Obviously each individual item's stats will increase (e.g. better shield capacity, better root resist rating, more weapon DPS, better energy resist rating) but will their two and three-piece set bonii also get a boost?
Will the 2-piece Distortion field get an upgrade to +X all energy damage resist compared to a stock XII set?
Will the 3-piece Team Ambush Field get +Y% additional CrtH and CrtD compared to a stock XII set?
The same question applies to all of the sets in STO. Will their bonii get small stat boosts or will only their individual pieces get stat boosts? Thank you.
Will the 2-piece Distortion field get an upgrade to +X all energy damage resist compared to a stock XII set?
Will the 3-piece Team Ambush Field get +Y% additional CrtH and CrtD compared to a stock XII set?
The same question applies to all of the sets in STO. Will their bonii get small stat boosts or will only their individual pieces get stat boosts? Thank you.
Joined January 2009
Finger wrote:Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=19324501&postcount=13
That makes sense, since you are supposed to be able to mix set pieces of different marks. I wish borticus would comment on this though.
Said another way... Set bonuses will now work even if you're wearing a Mk 12 VR piece, a Mk 13 UR piece and a Mk 14 Epic piece -- you'll still get the 3 piece bonus from a set comprised of those pieces with disparate qualities and mark levels.
But the same tech that allows that to happen, prevents us from allowing those set bonuses to scale.
That said, I believe that some may scale with the player's level, as they advance from 50-60. I'm not in a position to verify or refute that at the moment, though (not currently in the office).
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Thanks for the information. Do Mk 10 and Mk 11 pieces also combine with higher mark pieces to grant set bonuses?
So I assume these will all now default to the strongest variety?
Ah right, that makes sense. Thanks for the heads up.
Joined January 2009
Ergh-well, actually what you could do is write a script to set the set bonuses to whichever the lowest mark piece equipped is, and stick it inside the set bonus container so that when it detects what items you have equipped it checks what the lowest mark items are and uses that to determine which set bonus you get behind the scenes.
It's extra work, but it's not a totally binary possible/not possible issue. And the code should be applicable to all sets. This assumes however that your set bonus 'tech' is a container that checks which items you have equipped.
I'm guessing based on your comment that it probably works more like this: "Piece 1: Set flag [Setnumber_active]. Check quantity of flags: If set 1, output Alpha, if set 2, output beta, if set 3, output gamma, if set 4, output delta"- and then use those outputs with the set ID to apply the set bonuses. In that case, no actual information from the item is crossing over to the actual set bonus, and you'd have to create another workaround.
Which you could still DO.
For example, you could write a script that dynamically generates set ID bonuses based on different mark combinations. The end file would know from the output, that, say, set code [8437366] has 1 mark XI blue, 1 mark XII purple, and 1 Mark XV Ultraviolet, at which point it would output that code to the actual set bonus implementation, and tell it to implement the mark XI blue version of the bonus.
Obviously to save space you wouldn't have all the bonuses written down separately, but rather an algorithm to generate the bonuses at each tier based on your input values.
So don't say 'it's impossible', but rather "it's time-prohibitive to implement this and be ready for the Delta Rising launch, but we may consider doing so in the future."
That said, I really hope this doesn't nerf all the set bonuses that have better values at mark 12- I paid 200 lobi to upgrade my jem-hadar space set, and I'll be really annoyed if it gets nerfed down tot he mark 11 set bonus stats with this patch.
I meant more as like, a self-contained segment of code. I'm not actually sure how your engine or specific implementation works- and I get that there are issues. But it seems really strange to say that it's impossible to do something like have set bonuses 'care' about item pieces when you already have set bonuses currently 'care' about item pieces.
Your previous implementation, I'd guess, was just a case of detecting if the [specific item, including mark] was equipped, and applying the appropriate set bonus, and your 'fix' was to remove the 'including mark/rarity' section. That's what Bort seems to be saying.
What I'm saying is you could instead use a one-time script/code string/executable/whatever you want to call it, to generate the ID numbers for all the different possible combinations of mark 11 to mark 14, blue to gold rarity sets, and then stick the appropriate set bonuses for those numbers into your engine.
This would absolutely take up more space- because you'd go from the pre-existing case of having a mark 11 and 12, and XI and XII version of each relevant set bonus, to having one for each combination- which in turn would probably be prohibitive to implement. I'm not saying it isn't. But that doesn't mean impossible, or that you're unable to do it. The tech to do it is already there- it's just more work and more space- and from the programmer perspective, it's probably really 'hacky'- and I know full well how much programmers hate hacky solutions.
EDIT: my main concern- as I'm sure other peoples are similarly concerned with- is that there are a number of sets that have higher tier set bonuses for the mark 12 purple version that would be 'nerfed' to the crappier mark 11 blue version of the bonus under the new change for compatibility. If variable level scaling is introduced to the bonus that could certainly help, but I worry about specific item sets, like those from the Lobi store (and the Jem-Hadar mark 12 purple space set in particular) whose improved version stats were significantly improved on the set bonus, rather than what might normally be in the bounds for improvement by level.
I'm really not trying to come off as antagonistic, so I apologize if that's how you guys are taking my posts. I just want better transparency in the design process, and to get less of these claims that one thing or another is totally impossible, will never be done, and then- a month or two later, have exactly that thing done as part of a new release or update. For me, even if it's something that I really wanted to see released, I'll think back to the time when I was told it was impossible and would never be implement and feel really lied to about it.
:shrug:
Except there is no longer mk x or xi for borg sets anymore. Unless you never sold/deleted your old sets before borg when to rep.
Is it possible to add a socket to gear that requires a certain gear quality?
I'm thinking long term.
But the idea here is:
Gear could get sockets similar to kits. Higher quality gear gets more sockets.
You go back to your rep source to get more things to put in those sockets.
And the "gems" that go in the sockets have set bonuses.
Some "gems" would be restricted to certain categories of gear (Omega Force, for example) and some "gems" would work in any gear.
In turn, this whole thing could replace the existing concept of set bonuses and allow scaling on that level.
Okay, I realize right now that we're probably talking about a very major patch feature or an expansion feature. But I'm just tossing it out there.
Maybe along with a bridge officer overhaul that sets them up for socketed gear like our leftover kit parts rather than trained powers. So that would simplify BOs in the process a bit.
It's true that you can no longer get new Mk X or XI Borg set items, but it changed more recently than that (I think with S9). I have some Mk X items that were definitely acquired through the rep system, and I'm pretty sure it was earlier this year.
Bottom line, there's probably more people still have them than you would think.
Yeah - I'm sure I have a boff or 2 that has MK X STF Rep gear that was likely a handmedown or purchased to make a set. Good to see there is still SOME utility.
I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with whether the game engine uses scripting or not. Any competent programmer could figure out a way to do it. It's just that they don't think it's worth doing. Notice that borticus never said that it was impossible to do, though perhaps he could have been more careful in his wording. A better wording, in my opinion, would be "The game engine does not currently support that at this time."
An observation: People on these forums often use terms "script" and "scripting" too loosely. A script is a program written in an interpreted language, or sometimes a sequence of commands written in a database language like SQL. Admittedly, the line between an interpreted language and a compiled language is slightly blurry nowadays.
The Mk X and XI items still exist and the X and XI sets still exist.
Just to get this right the mk 13 is basically upgraded versions of our current gear but just a sliver of an increase for the ceiling to keep the balance so that the xii still could be competitive as this new gear and then the mk 14 will just be epic rarity.
If its like this I could live with that I am just glad that I didn't go trying to upgrade all these mk x and xi sets to mk xii and then find out that it'll have that upgrade function which would require a lot more time than just throwing dilithium into items which is far cheaper imo.
Does your item allow for an item to belong to two sets and contribute to two different set bonuses at once?
I've been mulling over an option that would possibly make up for that some.
Although, honestly, I have to say that set bonuses NOT scaling is not altogether bad in my eyes because it keeps the sets from dominating as the end all be all and encourages gear diversity more, as the gap between, say, a player using fleet/lobi weapons upgraded to Mk 14 Epic and a player using Omega gear upgraded to Mk 14 Epic would be far less pronounced than it is at Mk 12.
I've wanted to use Temporal themed gear whenever possible and it's far more viable vs. Omega at Mk 14 (especially with quality upgrades) than it was at Mk 12.
The set bonuses mattering less isn't a bad thing altogether and maybe the best solution would simply be to migrate away from set bonuses and more towards traits in the future.
Honestly, it seems to me like a lot of the old set bonuses could simply be converted to traits that interact with specific items or maybe even qualities of item.
For example, the short built in remod could become an active trait that is sold to people who own the complete Omega set (and takes up an Omega slot). Upgraded versions of the trait could be awarded for owning higher marks. (Just a special project that unlocks based on accolades.)
And this active trait could be triggered to only work with the Omega guns.
Upgrade your full Omega trait and a project unlocks for an improved remodulation active trait.
An advantage of this also is that you could wire the trait to work with certain other weapons in the game.
Cleaning that up some... Owning the Omega Mk XII set would unlock a project for the activatable Ground trait "Integral Frequency Remodulator".
Integral Frequency Remodulator
Targets Self
0.5 sec activate
10 sec recharge
Requires Omega Force Antiproton Autocarbine, Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle, M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle, Adapted Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle, Adapted M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle
Overcomes Borg adaptation. Instantly applies new frequencies.
Then when you have upgraded the set to Ultra-Rare, you unlock a project for a new trait:
Superior Integral Frequency Remodulator
Targets Self
0.5 sec activate
5 sec recharge
Requires Omega Force Antiproton Autocarbine, Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle, M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle, Adapted Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle, Adapted M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle
Overcomes Borg adaptation. Instantly applies new frequencies.
Then when you have upgraded the set to Epic, you unlock a project for a new trait:
Elite Integral Frequency Remodulator
Targets Self
0.5 sec activate
2.5 sec recharge
Requires Omega Force Antiproton Autocarbine, Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle, M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle, Adapted Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle, Adapted M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle
Overcomes Borg adaptation. Instantly applies new frequencies.
I am sincerely worried for the Jem'Hadar MK XII set in particular, specially because I paid lobi for it. I hope you take into consideration the boost provided when going from MK XI to MK XII currently, when designing the boosts for VR MK XIII, gold mk XIII, VR MK XIV and gold MK XIV. In particular, the crew death/disable resistance and the SDD boosts. The former should scale up to about a brace for impact, and I expect the SDD boost to go up to at least 5% at mk XIV gold (should be more given an increase in quality gets a higher bump).
See http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jem'Hadar_Space_Set
I don't remember if the set bonuses got boosted when going form mk XI to mk XII so if someone knows please confirm. Unfortunately, both toons I have it on have the mk XII set. When available, someone please posts pictures of the upgraded mk XI to MK XII to compare current versus new stats.
The Breen set on the other hand has Energy Siphon 1 tied to the 3 piece bonus which is horribly bad and should get a boost. The set won't feel epic Mk XIV with that junk 3 piece bonus.
The Jem'Hadar set owners are really getting hosed here.
EDIT: Nevermind. The Lobi version is being used as the basis. Still losing out with nothing to really show for it given that it takes $40 worth of Lobi to upgrade these sets.
An ugly hack crowd pleaser could be to create a turn in somewhere for an 'improved' mk14 epic set. On the backend you would have two different sets but on the frontend you would have another carrot to dangle in front of the overachievers and/or completionists.
First off, I've heard some item upgrades were fixed in Tribble. Whenever anyone has pics of the upgraded Jem'Hadar set pieces, please post them and share the link.
Second, I understand the devs are in a time crunch as far as development goes, but taking the shortcut approach to making/fixing stuff doesn't really help as far as the game's quality goes. The worst example I can throw right now is the way the "frozen" doff assignments problem was fixed by adding a horrible 5 seconds delay, which just angered everyone and still sucks. I have more examples, but that would be another thread.
What I'm trying to get to is, is it completely impossible to code for improving set bonuses (when applicable, specially 2 piece bonuses) according to the least improved item in the set?