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Please buff [DMG] mod
marcel314
Member Posts: 181 Arc User
One of the main reasons why upgrading to mk13/mk14 is really annoying for many is there is a chance that we get a DMG mod instead of CritD or CrthH or Acc.
CritD and CritH keep getting better with every new crit source and Acc rules PvP and is still really useful for PvE.
And then we got DMG...
CritD and CritH keep getting better with every new crit source and Acc rules PvP and is still really useful for PvE.
And then we got DMG...
Post edited by marcel314 on
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Heck, worse, the [PvPDmg] sucks even more.
That will make it competitive - those above the average expected Chance/Severity will want [CrtD]/[CrtH], those with below average expected Chance/Severity will want [Dam].
Right now, nobody wants [Dam].
There was a time before the reckless addition of stats to the game that this mod on weapons was actually pretty good, depending on the weapon and what you were doing with it.
Even now on DHC's Mk XII 3 damage mods vs CritH and CritD (pick your own mix) is only about a 1.5% difference in damage over time.
Of course for spike damage it's a different story.
Being where it is as a buff it's very delicate to adjust. The game has huge gobs of DMG mods as it is so it would seem less problematic to just drop them off of weapons. I don't see the devs making them competitive on weapons without further breaking the system.
I know it sounds so easy. It's actually a rather small damage boost on your weapons output. The problem is that it happens to every hit.
Crit D only happens on crits.
Damage mods also feed into...crits of course.
So damage mods, like DEM (essentially a damage mod) tend to do very consistent damage. For instance the damage times four quads are actually great on some ships at certain levels of crit rate because they are adding damage to every single hit. So a little change goes a long way.
So they are so close now it could be asking for trouble to change them as they could easily get out of hand. Tac consoles are damage mods, forever and ever. They are HUGE compared to what you get on weapons. And powerful. And I'm saying that one damage mod on a weapon is almost equal to 20% crit d.
So I dunno. In my book any mod that isn't fully understood by the player base is a failure even if it works perfectly. Players can't interact and use something they don't understand and therefore do not value.
So sure, get rid of it.
:eek:
Replace the [Dmg] mods on my Spiral Waves before you ditch them! :P
You're a million times more likely to die of hyperbole than anything else, I always say...
I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
On a 1k DPS weapon it adds about 10 damage. It isn't hyperbole.
Very Rare Mk XI Beam Array [Acc]x3
Base: 100
Weapon Power (125): 1.5
Mk XI: 1.1
Very Rare: 0.075
9 Starship Weapon Training: 0.495
9 Energy Weapons: 0.495
2x VR Mk XII Tac Consoles: 0.6
CrtH: 2.5%
CrtD: 50%
Damage = 100 * (1 + 1.5) * (1 + 2.765) * (1 + 0)
Damage = 100 * 2.5 * 3.765 * 1
Damage = 941.25
If we work in the Criticals to see what the average damage at 125 weapon power is, then we're looking at...
First, we need to see what the actual increase in damage would be with a Critical Hit.
CDamage = 100 * 2.5 * 3.765 * 1.5
CDamage = 1411.88
1411.88 / 941.25 = 1.5
Now, we can calculate that average damage.
ADamage = 941.25 * (1 + (0.025 * (1.5 - 1))
ADamage = 941.25 * (1 + (0.025 * 0.5))
ADamage = 941.25 * 1.0125
ADamage = 953.02
Working in the Criticals took our average damage from 941.25 to 953.02; an increase of 1.25% average damage.
Okay then, let's UR that Array and see what the different mods would give us. We're not looking at at more Acc. Ignored any potential Accuracy Overflow - didn't want to get into that. So we'll just look at CrtD, CrtH, and Dmg. Keep in mind, going UR takes that 0.075 to 0.1 for the strength boost from the Rarity/Quality.
The following will not be as detailed as the above.
w/[CrtD]:
Damage = 250 * 3.79 * 1
Damage = 947.5
CDamage = 947.5 * 1.7
CDamage = 1610.75
1610.75 / 947.5 = 1.7
ADamage = 947.5 * (1 + (0.025 * 0.7))
ADamage = 947.5 * 1.0175
ADamage = 964.08
w/[CrtH]:
Damage = 250 * 3.79 * 1
Damage = 947.5
CDamage = 947.5 * 1.5
CDamage = 1421.25
1421.25 / 947.5 = 1.5
ADamage = 947.5 * (1 + (0.045 * 0.5))
ADamage = 947.5 * 1.0225
ADamage = 968.82
w/[Dmg]:
Damage = 250 * 3.84 * 1
Damage = 960
CDamage = 960 * 1.5
CDamage = 1440
1440 / 960 = 1.5
ADamage = 960 * (1 + (0.025 * 0.5))
ADamage = 960 * 1.0125
ADamage = 972
Say we've got Jerry...
Very Rare Mk XI Beam Array [Acc]x3
Base: 100
Weapon Power (125): 1.5
Mk XI: 1.1
Very Rare: 0.075
9 Starship Weapon Training: 0.495
9 Energy Weapons: 0.495
4x Vulnerability Locators: 1.276; +6.4% CrtH
2pc Fluidic Ordnance: 0.075 (Bonus)
5x SRO: +10% CrtH; +25% CrtD
RO Captain: +1.5% CrtH; +3.8% CrtD
CrtH: 20.4%
CrtD: 78.8%
Damage = 100 * (1 + 1.5) * (1 + 3.441) * (1 + 0.075)
Damage = 100 * 2.5 * 4.441 * 1.075
Damage = 1193.52
If we work in the Criticals to see what the average damage at 125 weapon power is, then we're looking at...
First, we need to see what the actual increase in damage would be with a Critical Hit.
CDamage = 100 * 2.5 * 4.441 * 1.863
CDamage = 2068.40
2068.40 / 1193.52 = 1.733
Now, we can calculate that average damage.
ADamage = 1193.52 * (1 + (0.204 * (1.733 - 1))
ADamage = 1193.52 * (1 + (0.204 * 0.733))
ADamage = 1193.52 * 1.149532
ADamage = 1371.99
Working in the Criticals took our average damage from 1193.52 to 1371.99; an increase of 14.95% average damage.
Okay then, let's UR that Array and see what the different mods would give us. We're not looking at at more Acc. Ignored any potential Accuracy Overflow - didn't want to get into that. So we'll just look at CrtD, CrtH, and Dmg. Keep in mind, going UR takes that 0.075 to 0.1 for the strength boost from the Rarity/Quality.
The following will not be as detailed as the above.
w/[CrtD]:
Damage = 250 * 4.466 * 1.075
Damage = 1200.24
CDamage = 250 * 4.466 * 2.063
CDamage = 2303.34
2303.34 / 1200.24 = 1.92
ADamage = 1200.24 * (1 + (0.204 * 0.92))
ADamage = 1200.24 * 1.18768
ADamage = 1425.50
w/[CrtH]:
Damage: 250 * 4.466 * 1.075
Damage = 1200.24
CDamage = 250 * 4.466 * 1.863
CDamage = 2080.04
2080.04 / 1200.24 = 1.733
ADamage = 1200.24 * (1 + (0.224 * 0.733))
ADamage = 1200.24 * 1.164192
ADamage = 1397.31
w/[Dmg]:
Damage: 250 * 4.516 * 1.075
Damage = 1213.68
CDamage = 250 * 4.516 * 1.863
CDamage = 2103.33
2103.33 / 1213.68 = 1.733
ADamage = 1213.68 * (1 + (0.204 * 0.733))
ADamage = 1213.68 * 1.149532
ADamage = 1395.16
THE TLDR
It's going to depend.
No, seriously, lol...it does depend.
Tom's initial ADmg: 953.02
Going UR...
w/CrtD: 964.08; +1.16%
w/CrtH: 968.82; +1.66%
w/Dmg: 972; +1.99%
Jerry's initial ADmg: 1371.99
Going UR...
w/CrtD: 1425.50; +3.90%
w/CrtH: 1397.31; +1.85%
w/Dmg: 1395.16; +1.69%
Different results...different builds. That's without any other buffs - etc, etc, etc...it's all going to depend. The minmaxer is looking at that...the person that's not minmaxing doesn't care, eh?
It's why we need the choice of mods - it's why folks choose mods - etc, etc, etc.
One might say, "Hey, for Tom - the difference between 1.99% and 1.16% is only 0.83% - what's the big deal?"
It's not...because that's not the whole picture. There's going to be other buffs and debuffs. To the minmaxer it's going to matter and there is more they're going to be looking at...
It's why that talk of the choice of mods - if that ever happens...awesome!
If not...meh...it can turn some weapons into vendor trash...meh.
What part of this do you not understand so we can help you out?
It is really simple - the added [dmg] mod is worthless and detrimental to Jerry, but to Tom it is a better option. (The reason for that being Tom has no additional CrtD and CrtH)
The numbers don't lie - for a good build, [dmg] is not as good as [CrtH], and way off [CrtD].
Yes, pretty much.
Thing is, "good" builds are going to depend on what the person is trying to do - what their goals are. Not everybody has the same goals.
Say Tom was running [CrtD]x3 instead of [Acc]x3...something that might stand out as a change from PvP to PvE, switching from Acc to CrtD.
His original Damage wouldn't change, he'd still be at 941.25 for that. His CDamage though, the new number there would be 1976.63 (compared to the 1411.88 that it was). Which would take his ADamage to 967.13...which is still low because of his only having the base 2.5% CrtH.
w/CrtD: 978.29
w/CRtH: 994.40
w/Dmg: 986.40
And the CrtH would be best for him now, where previously it was the Dmg.
And some folks are looking at each and every piece as they piece together the build, knowing that if they start with X and add Y that they're going to be looking at a certain something for Z.
Like if we made Tom a Romulan, gave him 5x SROs - how it would affect things differently. Or if we made Tom a Nausicaan, gave him 1-2x SROs and some Pirates. Whether it was Locators or Exploiters based on what other consoles - then getting into weapons, etc, etc, etc.
Heck, even with Jerry if he wanted to keep doing his [Acc]x? thing - what if slotted a Nukara which gave all his weapons an [Acc] so he could [CrtD] them...versus say...picking up a Bioneural that gave him +15.2% CrtD instead of +20% CrtD, but gave him another ~5.2% hull or so as well as some Decomp if he was ever to build for that?
Meh, it's just a case that sure - Cryptic may design the content so folks can beat it with whatever...but some folks want to fly more than just whatever. Sure, we saw Smirk in an Eclipse without any BOFFs ravaging the Kazon...but there were still folks that were clamoring for him to boost his Weapon Power (even though he was running the 100-50-25-25 default Weapon preset) cause they felt he should be blowing them up faster.
With the talk about the "Elite" queues at 60...there are going to be the folks that want to do the subjective minmax to get the most out of their builds...
...and well, boosting [Dmg] won't fix that. [Dmg] is "fine" for certain builds as folks go about doing their thing - depending on their build, it's the best choice outside of them changing other things.
But it's something that could take somebody's Rep Store weapons when they take them to UR and get a [Dmg] mod, that they're going to end up vendor trash...and that's just freaking annoying. To rank up the Rep to get access to the store, to get the Dil to buy the weapon, to spend the Dil to take it from Mk XII to Mk XIII to Mk XIV, to spend the Dil on how many ever chances it takes for the gamble to pay off to get to UR...and then get a [Dmg] mod? Oh Hell no...
Of course - but if you were looking to do damage, you wouldn't recommend Tom's set up over Jerry's set up.
(I should have said it, but I did assume it would be realised I was referring to damage output as the context of my good/bad build point...)
And your last paragraph is completely correct.
the outcome of the process could be, but at least the goal of the process should be setable by the player.
u don't just throw some things together to see what it becomes in the end in r&d. u pick a goal and make a plan to get there. u then try, step by step, to achieve that goal set. and not any goal by coincedence.
just got struck by this idea:
why not make upgrade process from very-rare to epic like with ground-kits? so, with every quality increase that weapon could slot one proc-mod-module more.
this even would generate another source of income for cryptic: the mod-modules
what u guys think?
like the idea, though it would be annoying to do it with 8 weapons...ships shouldn't have that many weapons anyway in my opinion.
If ships had, depending on their class 1 torp slot, 2 beam slots or 2 cannon slots and maybe a mine slot then i could see removeable mods in those weapons to be a great feature.
But with (sometimes) 8 identical weapons it is just stacking and not really choosing.
But even there, and that's where it is as complex as it gets - somebody saying they were looking do do damage simply doesn't tell enough about what they are looking to do.
Tom says he's looking to do damage and wants help with a build.
Well, what does Tom do? Pug, pugmade, preamade PvP or PVE? Does he just tool around but is looking to tool around a little better as he replays missions or hits up the Foundry?
Many folks asking for help aren't clear enough on what they do - likewise, many folks offering help aren't clear enough on what they're actually helping the person do...imho.
As a crafting item, perhaps - but as a standalone feature similar to kits?
Open up a Crafting Mod UI, slot the crafted module you want to replace in the slot you want to replace...pay the Dil tax...etc, etc, etc...as opposed to just carrying around a bunch of modules like one might carry bits for kits.
Well, no one is perfect. But yes, communication or lack of is a major issue in STO.
sounds good
how about a permanent addition with craft- and sellable modules with some dil cost to craft? make em the whole range with all the new mods as well (like [arc], etc.). only one possible per item due to epic has a fixed mod.
this way it still would be necessary to get new weaps for new purposes (besides the fact that we'er talking only about one mod out of 5 lol).
Well, they're going with the ability to upgrade almost anything - so you're looking at folks that may be upgrading their Rare Mk XI's to Epic MK XIV's at some point. So there would be plenty of open mods that they might want to work with...while still having to deal with the mods that can't be changed.
Like a Fleet Weapon - that the [Dmg] mods couldn't be changed sort of thing - how would that play, eh? We know the Epic Mods are fixed, there will be various other fixed mods and unavailable mods (couldn't add the Nanite mod to a weapon sort of thing)...etc, etc, etc.
Probably one of those things where a couple of years from now, they'll have had the 9001st meeting on it and finally start to get somewhere. :eek:
... u know, the sad thing is that probably that last sentence is so true... u just killed my will to keep it up for now. ur a baaad forum-pvp-haxrrr :eek::P:D <*burninindacave*
When they can find a way to monetize it without adversely affecting anything else they've already monetized or plan to monetize in the future...
Cause you have to figure what the payout for them on somebody crafting something is right now - getting it wrong - crafting it again vs. somebody being able to craft it wrong and fix it...
Could see a cost to fix it that is 2-3+ times the cost to craft it...which would still be cheaper than gambling, eh?
Then again, the whole mod thing - perhaps the whole lot of it - simply needs a complete revamp.
Check out the cost of a C-RCS with ResAll versus one with Sensors, eh?
This is true. How many threads have there been where players just wanted an index of terms?
This is one reason why I cringe whenever I feel forced to use 'DPS' in a post. It's a handy convention when you want to compare otherwise dissimilar builds but that's about it. It's weak because no one would confuse the DPS of an alphastrike with the DPS of a FAW Beamboat.
Anyway here's to the the invention of the Universal Translator. Hail Google!:)
They remove content that is outdated and no longer up to snuff. Remove mods (like DMG) that are outdated and no longer up to snuff.
Now if only they would stop creating new things that were terrible *Warp Core EWS* we'd be in great shape.
[Dmg] needs another buff so in short you are forced to chose "Damage NOW or LATER?"
Not necessarily - someone running a build as per VPvP Spec should definitely at least consider running [dmg] over [CrtD] for example as [dmg] works out equal to or better than [CrtD] except on Attack Pattern boosted vape builds, at even then it is still very close, close enough that if you go [CrtD] when you are not APed up you lose damage.
But, in normal PvE/PvP yes you are definitely better off abandoning [dmg] mods, and Fleet weapons in actual use context will be vastly improved if they were [acc]x3 [TRIBBLE] or [acc]x4.
See new player looking at a weapon with 3x CtH and a weapon with 3x DMG. The DMG one would look like it was a lot better if you don't know how much CtH effects stuff.
I would personally just like to see the DMG mod removed entirely (as I said, it's boring) and replaced by something else. Perhaps -PWR (-3 power drain/useage).
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