The big moneygrab. Its our fault

admiralcarter

So since everybody is complaining and fearing the big money grab, I decided to review the current state of moneygrabbing in our beloved MMO Star Trek Online. But not only in Star Trek Online it is happening.

Its happening everywere in the MMO world.

As soon as a game is going Free2play they consider the options of money making from a game they are offering as free2download and free2play.

They introduce micropayments and premium gear for the people to purchase. After some time new gear and more powerful items are introduced with new content to keep the income steady. The people need something to do and the best way to assure that is giving them new content and of course new premium gear, rendering old gear useless or at least not as effective as it was on the date of purchase.

Its common in the MMO gaming industrie theese days. Of course we hate how things are handled but its our own fault. Because we players signal them with our full pockets if a system like that works or not.

When the Lockboxes were introduced into Star Trek Online there was an outrage on the forums. How could Cryptic even dare to introduce Premium Content for top dollar. Yet most of us opened alot of Boxes to get our hands on that "Premium Content"

Yes, I opened alot of Boxes too and purchased lots of keys to sell in the exchange to get at least a small protion of the new premium content.

New boxes have been introduced with even more powerful ships, that made old box ships look weak. Again there was outrage about the new premium content. Yet we decided to open additional boxes and saving up lobis to get additonal premium gear for our new and shiney box ship.

Again a new box and again and again. The cycle of moneymaking is established and the players have accepted the Premium Content as part of the game now.

Now we start to ask for our dream gear and giving them proposals of how we would pay for it. I ve seen several suggestion threads with top dollar price tags after their suggestions. Of course game developers listen to suggestions that involve top dollars.

So new premium content with the suggested "Dream Gear" is introduced for top dollar.

People outrage and all the discussions are starting again. Yet enough people pay for the new and better Premium "Dreamgear".

After awhile new people come up with even more ideas and of course pricetags slapped on their ideas. So we show them what we are willing to pay for stuff they should introduce into the game.

Sometimes its surprising how much people would actually pay for single consoles or items.

Now with a new expansion coming and the disapointment towards upgrade possibilites there are new suggestions flying around on the forums of how all this could be handled so players can stick to their beloved gear that they paid top dollar for.

Of course thoose suggestions that were posted didnt contain the word "free because we already paid top dollar"

No.

Again new and steep price tags were added to the suggestions just to get the possibility to upgrade their Premium "Dream gear" they already paid alot for...

In addition theres already enough people that paid for the "Delta Operations" pack just to have a headstart when the new expansions hits the Holodeck. Its not even fully clear what the ships can really do that are part of the Operations Pack... but people bought the cat in the sack already, because its new and shiney and promises to be OP in all manners. I sense there will be disappointment and additional complaining along with new suggestions how to improve the Operations Pack content. Of course included with payment options for the improvement suggested by the players itself.

We literally ask for our money to be grabbed. We ask for our last penny to be taken out of the pockets. Its our own fault that game developing is the way it is, because we give them more and more ideas how to make profit from us and we are willing to give them their profit.

Think about it, before you file a new complaint towards Cryptic or the MMO Industry in general.

shevet

Forgive me, but... doesn't the game have to make money somehow, or it would fold up and die?

I mean, I'm sure the devs are all wonderful people and would carry on delivering new content just for sheer love of the game and its players... but they would, y'know, sort of starve to death doing it, if they didn't get paid, wouldn't they?

admiralcarter

I am not saying that they shouldnt earn money from the players.

They should, and of course we need premium content and people that pay for it to keep the game running.

I am a Lifetimemember myself. I paid some serious dollar at the start of the game just to support it and I tend to buy premium content once in a while because I feel that the money I am spending is used to keep the game running.

But what botheres me most at the moment is, that the playerbase is giving the game developers more ideas of how we would spend ridicolous amounts of money on virtual items.

I have no problem on spending money on this game as long as it is somehow a fair and square pricing. But there are people that offer even higher prices just to get their favourite stuff.

I am okay with paying 20 - 50$ for premium stuff (See thats the problem I am already okay with paying that high amount of money. Microtransactions and premium content along with DLC were like 2 - 5$ in the past)

But some "suggestions" go far beyond that and are set in the hundreds... and that is unacceptable.


Its like with gas in our real world. 10 years ago we wouldnt have paid so much for gas, because it seemed ridicolous. Now we are glad the price doesent exceed the current "maximum" we pay for it.

In a couple of years the price will be doubled probably and we are glad that we are not paying triple price.

Its humanity sadly.

alexmakepeace

Speak for yourself. I've never sunk more than $10 at a time into any MMO, even STO.

Also, I don't think it really matters that much in STO if "top gear" is really expensive because you don't really need it. In some ways I feel like they can charge whatever they want, though I find some of their ship prices excessive. I don't feel like its an excessive burden because I don't really need to get the stuff. It's just a matter of what I want.

Furthermore, STO in particular provides a heck of a lot of content you can play for free. None of this "Pay $50 to unlock the grind in a new region" stuff that some other MMOs do. It can all be accessed for free, and it can all be completed with the free ships.

That being said, I would start complaining if I did PvP, and there was an expensive "pay-to-win" mechanic. But I don't, so I'm not to worried about it personally.

jorantomalak

The game needs to make money though i think cryptic and PWE are letting the greed get to them a bit with the DR money grab about to launch.

Anyways there are those who will rage about it , those who will quit ove rit , those who wont mind and those who wont care either way.

In the end you either play or you dont if you choose not to play....can i haz your stuffs

(Nah i dont want your stuffs but like saying that anyways )

hawku001x

no guys, this is my fault..... i'll take the hit for this

z3ndor99

If you want a money sink/grab, go look at the new dragon species Introduced to neverwinter very recently, its ( for you yanks out there ) $125 for playable dragon people, one mount of low quality and a few trinkets, its the equivalent of $125 for argument sake say; joined trill playable characters, shuttle craft, xp boost and level-less disruptor pistol, now would you spend that much here in STO for something like that!. We get a hell of alot for cash compared to other mmo's including the other cryptic game.

markhawkman

shevet wrote: »

Forgive me, but... doesn't the game have to make money somehow, or it would fold up and die?

I mean, I'm sure the devs are all wonderful people and would carry on delivering new content just for sheer love of the game and its players... but they would, y'know, sort of starve to death doing it, if they didn't get paid, wouldn't they?

^this

STO is a business. The entire reason for creating it was to make money. Of course the devs want your money....

jorantomalak

hawku001x wrote: »

no guys, this is my fault..... i'll take the hit for this

*Slaps hawk with a large trout*

Ok its your fault

hawku001x

dammit, trout residue

iconians

This became our fault as soon as I started seeing people proudly buy TRIBBLE from the C-store they didn't need. This became our fault when level 50 players first signed up to buy the Rhode Island in the C-store even though they had absolutely no desire to ever use it or its console (before they were made to be swapped to various ships).

People bought TRIBBLE just because it was there in the C-store. Not because they needed it.

I said it then, multiple times... that they send Cryptic the wrong message, that people will throw money at whatever they come up with regardless of personal necessity for it, and they will only encourage Cryptic to come up with more microtransactions.

They did it anyway.

So here we are. Yes. It is our fault. It has been our fault for some time. You want someone to blame? It isn't PWE or Cryptic.

Take a look in the mirror.

markhawkman

iconians wrote: »

This became our fault as soon as I started seeing people proudly buy TRIBBLE from the C-store they didn't need. This became our fault when level 50 players first signed up to buy the Rhode Island in the C-store even though they had absolutely no desire to ever use it or its console (before they were made to be swapped to various ships).

People bought TRIBBLE just because it was there in the C-store. Not because they needed it.

I said it then, multiple times... that they send Cryptic the wrong message, that people will throw money at whatever they come up with regardless of personal necessity for it, and they will only encourage Cryptic to come up with more microtransactions.

They did it anyway.

So here we are. Yes. It is our fault. It has been our fault for some time. You want someone to blame? It isn't PWE or Cryptic.

Take a look in the mirror.

But as a counterpoint, where do you think the game would be right now if people HAD taken your advice?

Less revenue means less development....

mirrorchaos

there was always an alternative, a game full of advertisements.

iconians

markhawkman wrote: »

But as a counterpoint, where do you think the game would be right now if people HAD taken your advice?

Less revenue means less development....

We're getting into a gray area of 'what ifs'.

Personally, in my opinion? Cryptic would have found other ways to make money off of us. If one thing in the C-store didn't make money, they'd pursue other initiatives until something did.

The bridge packs are a good example. They stopped being worth the time and labor to create. So they stopped producing bridge packs. If bridge packs were (for whatever reason) a major selling point that created a bunch of revenue, we'd see bridge packs continually developed. But if it stops making money? It stops being looked into as a viable source of development.

Purchasable species from the c-store apparently weren't profitable, so a bunch of them were later made free.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

But the playerbase decided we were way too easily persuaded to part with our cash.

So congratulations, instead of being stubborn customers who wanted actual value for our purchases, we decided it's perfectly fine to poach us for cash grabs.

markhawkman

iconians wrote: »

We're getting into a gray area of 'what ifs'.

Personally, in my opinion? Cryptic would have found other ways to make money off of us. If one thing in the C-store didn't make money, they'd pursue other initiatives until something did.

The bridge packs are a good example. They stopped being worth the time and labor to create. So they stopped producing bridge packs. If bridge packs were (for whatever reason) a major selling point that created a bunch of revenue, we'd see bridge packs continually developed. But if it stops making money? It stops being looked into as a viable source of development.

Purchasable species from the c-store apparently weren't profitable, so a bunch of them were later made free.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

But the playerbase decided we were way too easily persuaded to part with our cash.

If lock boxes are "too easy" then what isn't?

orangeitis

admiralcarter wrote: »

The big moneygrab. Its our fault

No, I'm pretty sure they just need to recover funds from getting those expensive ST Voyager actors...

iconians

markhawkman wrote: »

If lock boxes are "too easy" then what isn't?

A lot of projects Cryptic has said they weren't willing to look into as a result of time and labor put into them.

Customers respond poorly to X or Y in terms of C-store sales, then Cryptic will try going into Z.

That's how this works. You push the developer into taking paths they originally didn't want to go down as a result of inconvenience in order to make their money.

Lockboxes are a low-hanging fruit.

If the playerbase responded poorly to a lot of things they now regard as 'cash grabs', then Cryptic would have to roll up their sleeves and dig deeper before finding something players did respond to that didn't turn out to be a cash grab.

Insane Example: Let's take the Galaxy-X Dreadnought's Spinal Phaser Lance placement.

Let's say that fixing minor cosmetic issues with ships like that were guaranteed to pull in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. That'd be something we'd see a lot more of, and more ships with better workmanship.

Really, you can take any of your hopes and dreams for STO and use it as an example. If everything up until then wasn't as fruitful, eventually they'll come to your hopes and dreams as a possible option in the hopes of striking gold.

We just made the choice of showing Cryptic that they didn't have to dig very deep to strike gold.

pulserazor

the problem with your logic is that you assume the same people who complained about having to spend money are the same people spending money.

First off, if no one spent money, there would be no sto, Cryptic is hardly a benovolant charity for star trek nerds.

Second, the people who were not complaining were too busy enjoying the game for them to be represented in ire on these forums, such it is with all games.

Third, what seems like a prohibitive amount of money to you is trivial to others, forum posts like this always hint at jealousy.


There is no 'moneygrab' anymore then the gas station selling milk is a money grab, its called business, capatalist enterprise. Money goes in, products come out. Rejoice in every content addition to the game, because it is a direct result of people spending money.

markhawkman

iconians wrote: »

A lot of projects Cryptic has said they weren't willing to look into as a result of time and labor put into them.

Customers respond poorly to X or Y in terms of C-store sales, then Cryptic will try going into Z.

That's how this works. You push the developer into taking paths they originally didn't want to go down as a result of inconvenience in order to make their money.

Lockboxes are a low-hanging fruit.

If the playerbase responded poorly to a lot of things they now regard as 'cash grabs', then Cryptic would have to roll up their sleeves and dig deeper before finding something players did respond to that didn't turn out to be a cash grab.

Insane Example: Let's take the Galaxy-X Dreadnought's Spinal Phaser Lance placement.

Let's say that fixing minor cosmetic issues with ships like that were guaranteed to pull in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. That'd be something we'd see a lot more of, and more ships with better workmanship.

Really, you can take any of your hopes and dreams for STO and use it as an example. If everything up until then wasn't as fruitful, eventually they'll come to your hopes and dreams as a possible option in the hopes of striking gold.

We just made the choice of showing Cryptic that they didn't have to dig very deep to strike gold.

The problem with "digging deeper" is that it can go horribly wrong and bankrupt the game. Development costs money and if you don't have the budget due to lack of revenue...

Quite frankly the real trick was in the devs finding a way to make repeatable purchases. Bridges, races, ships, all account unlocks are things a person buys once and never again. That system makes some money but not enough. It's part of why we had the "Great Content Drought". Cryptic just didn't make enough money.

So due to players not spending enough Cryptic "dug deeper" and found ways to get people to spend more. Granted it's not the outcome you wanted, but it worked for the devs and made the game profitable enough to warrant further development.

@Pulserazor: *high five*

iconians

markhawkman wrote: »

The problem with "digging deeper" is that it can go horribly wrong and bankrupt the game. Development costs money and if you don't have the budget due to lack of revenue...

Correct. Ideally, I'd want their projects to make enough money to sustain them, but if they wanted to hit the proverbial jackpot, it'd have required more than superficial appeasement. Not enough to bankrupt them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a bit of hardship to push a company into going down the untrodden path -- namely the paths that line up with my own desires and dreams.

I've had to work extremely hard to get where I am. Lots of others have to. The trick is to push a developer just enough into looking into other areas of the game as possible areas of revenue, but not enough to break their bank.

So due to players not spending enough Cryptic "dug deeper" and found ways to get people to spend more. Granted it's not the outcome you wanted, but it worked for the devs and made the game profitable enough to warrant further development.

I don't disagree there, either. Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad STO is where it is today. I'm glad they are making money. I'm even glad to pitch in and throw some cash their way on what some would call cash grabs.

But if people want a culprit to blame for the state of microtransactions in STO? Like I said, they just need to look in a mirror. Cryptic only responds to what the players are willing to throw large amounts of money at.

We showed them early on we were very loose with our wallets. Now here we are.

admiralcarter

I am glad were STO is too. I continue spending money on it of course.

I just wish some people would stop posting suggestions with the addition: "I pay you hundreds of dollars if you put it into the game" and other people concur to the "Wishlist" by telling they are also willing to pay...

The whole thing with the T6 ships and the upgrades and the things we see on Tribble (along with the Lobi Gear issue) are already set in stone.

This wont change. It will be shipped as is. Any why? Because theres a huge list of people that are willing to open their pockets no matter how much you ask or what you give to them.

Cryptic could sell a Ground Device that does nothing for 1500 Lobi Crystals. People would buy it just because it is expensive and probably noone else will get it because it does nothing.

But they buy it because they can claim that they are one of the few people that actually have it!

Our main problem is not Cryptic / PWE and their buisness model. Our problem is dumb people that buy everything no matter if they need it, if its any good or if its overpriced. They just buy it.

That shows the marketing people that stuff actually sells, even at very high asking prices so they will continue asking alot of money for things that are probably worth 1/10 of its asking price.

I am not against spending money on a game. I support it. Please do spend money on this game. That way you keep it running.

Just pay attention what you buy. Dont buy everything they throw at you and most important after all, not for any price they ask.

But as I said earlier. Thats what never happens. Theres always people buying stuff for several hundreds or even thousand dollars.