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Serious Issue with the Eclipse Intel Cruiser
vlert
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Let me just say. I love this game, I have a lifetime sub and I pre purchased the Romulan pack. I main an engineer in a cruiser. When I saw the option to buy the delta rising pack I almost bought it right then and there. I only didn't because I was waiting for my next paycheck. Now I am glad that I didn't have the money at the time because as it stands the ship I wanted to play the most is worse than the ship I currently run. This is what went through my head.
"The Eclipse looks absolutely awesome, UNTIL you read the console layout. 5 engineering consoles? Really?"
As I sat there and thought it over with my friend we realized something. The main reason this is a horrible layout is because of the ABYSMAL state of engineering consoles versus anything else. So I did a quick poll of my fleet to confirm something. And you know what I bet it's true here in the forums too.
"When have you ever run more than 1 engineering console in your engineering slots unless you are running a team PVP support ship?"
The answer was unanimous. "Never"
TLDR: This tells me that either engineering consoles need a serious overhaul (my preference, but unlikely, would also take awhile) or the Eclipse needs a better console layout.
"The Eclipse looks absolutely awesome, UNTIL you read the console layout. 5 engineering consoles? Really?"
As I sat there and thought it over with my friend we realized something. The main reason this is a horrible layout is because of the ABYSMAL state of engineering consoles versus anything else. So I did a quick poll of my fleet to confirm something. And you know what I bet it's true here in the forums too.
"When have you ever run more than 1 engineering console in your engineering slots unless you are running a team PVP support ship?"
The answer was unanimous. "Never"
TLDR: This tells me that either engineering consoles need a serious overhaul (my preference, but unlikely, would also take awhile) or the Eclipse needs a better console layout.
Post edited by vlert on
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Comments
frankly, federation suffers a bit from the fact that ALL of the federation ships are decidedly heavy on the engineering slots.
understandable since the bulk of the officers come up through engineering or maybe science tracks, but it gets annoying after a while.
the officer slots have the same issue. even the combat oriented ships are engineering heavy.
If you finished reading the post you would note that I point out its only a problem because the state of the game makes engineering consoles useless. I would rather they fixed that problem over changing the ship. But if they don't address the balance issues inherent in the game/consoles then the ship suffers. I want tanking to be relevant but it's not, THEREFORE 5 eng consoles are bad. It doesn't have to be tac, Heck more sci would be better.
How many time have YOU run multiple eng consoles when you had access to good universals? I've done it. You gain nothing. It makes no difference in PVE and in PVP it doesn't help you survive more than 1 or 2 seconds more. The utility/dps loss for that gain is never made up. That is the problem I am trying to point out.
It's kind of twisted, but it's hard not to think of Eng console slots simply as...
We don't want this ship to have any more Tac consoles.
We don't want this ship to have any more Sci consoles.
More Eng consoles it is!
...and it's as simple as that.
Why should Eng consoles be any different than anywhere else "Eng" comes up - whether one is talking about Eng BOFFs or Eng Captains, eh?
But then again, there are just so many non-clicky Universals available - that having those Eng console slots actually makes it easier, since you're not faced with the opportunity cost that you might have in trying to decide whether to replace a Tac or Sci console slot with a non-clicky Universal...
This is exactly my point. Eng console slots are just dump slots for Universals, which can go in any slot. So there is zero advantage to having eng consoles.
For tac slots it's "hmm, nope no universals are better than tac I'm going to run all tac".
For sci slots it's "hmm, I've used all my eng slots for universals, am I willing to give up a Field Gen/Particle/Flow cap/Grav console for this 4/5 universal?"
For eng slots it's "hmm, what 3/4/5 universals do I want to run?"
If you simply took away eng consoles and made them Universal only very little would change.
If you did that with any other type everything would change.
Again the problem is that there is ZERO advantage to a 5 eng, 2 tac/sci , 3 tac/sci loadout
compared to a 4 eng , 4 T/S, 2 T/S or 4 eng, 3 T/S, 3 T/S loadout.
By your own admission all the 5 eng means is you don't have to choose what to give up BECAUSE you don't have better choices.
Am I the really ONLY one that sees this as a flaw?
The flaw is not in having the Eng slots, but in the lack of having Eng consoles for those slots so that you're faced with the hard choice across the board. But it's not unique to Eng consoles - Eng BOFFs, Eng Captains...they're all subpar.
I mean, seriously...looking at the Intel ships with the hybrid seats...
More likely to give up Tac, Sci, or Eng for some Intel abilities, eh?
It's an across the board issue.
I nearly fell out of my seat laughing when Geko talked about BOFF abilities in the PO189 and talked about equivalency...it was mind-boggling.
I wouldnt spend much money on them though, probably obsoleted sometime soon
Borg, Protonic, Nukara, 0Point, Tachyo
Infusion, Gel-Packs
Wheeeeee....
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
-Universal Consoles
-RCS
Personally, my biggest gripe with the Eclipse is that it's an Aux2Bat/DHC Battlecruiser instead of a proper Federation Sci-Cruiser. The console and Mastery Trait would synergize so very nicely with a Vacuum build, but the science seating and console room really cripple its potential. I'm still not sure how flexible the Intel seats will be for the purpose(Ionic Turbulence has potential if it can be combined with Warp Plasma).
Standard T6 Eclipse vs. Standard T5-U Avenger
-825 to -1000 Base Hull
-150 Crew
-1 Fore Weapon
+1 Aft Weapon
+1 Turn
+0.02 Impulse Mod
+5 Inertia
-1 Tac Console
+1 Sci Console
+Innate Cloak
-Cloak Console (slottable/separate purchase)
-Shield Frequency Modulation
+Structural Field Integrity Siphon (slottable)
-V.A.T.A. (slottable)
+13th BOFF Ability
+Hybrid Seats/Intel BOFFs
+5th Level Starship Mastery Trait Unlock
+Active Sensor Arrays
Eclipse
X, X, X
O, O, O, O
X, X, X
O,O
X
Avenger
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X, X
X, X
How about a Weapons Capacitor Console that lowers weapon fire drain? Now that would be a must have Engineering Console for most ships right? Perhaps it absorbs power from energy attacks. A Shield one could dump it's stored power into a shield facing when it hits 25%. We probably don't need one for Engines and Aux but. I'd say both those suggestions are Unique in that you can only have 1 and you have to choose between the two.
Damage Consoles are super valuable you would never remove a Tac Console to slot a Universal. (And the Counter Command one doesn't count it is a Tac Console).
Because Tac consoles are important and the rest are just slots for Universals.
Maybe they need to make some Engineering Consoles that are powerful but Unique.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
You will also appreciate all those slots when you consider the various universals required for particular build, like Leech, PPS+torp, Hydrodynamic etc.
Capacitor consoles sound like good ideas, would definitely be handy on a ship making extensive use of many beams
The era of a2b-Ships for max-dps are over. They will still have quite good performance, but a ship with a2b vs. one without will lose in terms of dps (of course I talk about the same ship in two configurations, or at least same console-layout and faction).
This is one who has a similar problem as the assault, you have to a2b or fall behind. On the other hand there are several ships as tanky (or tankier) which do more dps, hence win-win against it.
The Eclipse is only "forced" to use Aux2Batt if you refuse to use the Intelligence seat as designed. Give it a couple weeks of play time, and I'm sure people will find how to use the Intel slots effectively.
The Expose Vulnerability system should also factor into assessments of its viability.
But even on a cruiser dedicated to tanking, to making itself a target, I only use a single fleet neutronium console. And three universals. Soon to be four universals, since like all cruisers I'll be getting a 5th eng slot soon.
Um, all the time? At least I do. On all my ships., Fed, Kling and Rom.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
While the Expose sure can do something, the new BO-Skills, as they are explained in the devblog, are a utter disapointment. And usually abilities underperform than they read, which doesnt make it brighter.
Combine with hull regen traits and +hull % traits. Go and Have perma HE 1 for free and turn on a dime.
Also go have 70k+ hull now.
Gets hilarious after DR hits and you master up the other hull% bonus and hull regen.
5 engi slots? yes please.
The problem is that this is the natural thing to do. Who would give up 4 tac consoles for uni ones? Engi slots are so close to worthless that the bulk of them could be converted into special rep console only slots, and hardly anyone would notice.
More at 11.
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