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Qib vs Eclipse Intel Cruisers
wr3knar21
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Not really sure that I'm missing something, but is the Qib positioned to be a superior ship to the Eclipse? From what I'm seeing the Qib has 3% additional hull and a battle cloak over the Eclipse. Pretty marginal and not worth freaking out over, but I was curious if I were missing something or if PWE has decided to abandon the balance between Starfleet cruisers and KDF cruisers.
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There was balance between fed and KDF ships? Since when?
Since BoP's are superior to pretty much any fed ship out there. Except sci snoopers.
That's hardly a state you can call balanced.....
And a +1 turn rate too, +10 vs +11 turn rate. The thing is it was never balance. Devs like to keep the Kdf ships better then fed side. This goes back from C-store ships like Oddysey and Bortasque, or more recent Dyson sci hybrid ships...
Ohh and just wait for a bit until the kdf players come and preach that the crew balances the intel ships lol. Like it happens on the mogh vs avenger debates. Even tho that crew regen hadly matters since in fight u still have to rely on heal skills anyway, and that the crew mechanics are bugged as hell. And I doubt the ships were designed with various bugs taken into consideration...
:rolleyes:
Fed ships have always been superior...and you call it "balance".
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
The devs. have already expalined this when the Mogh Class was released - they treat the battlecruiser class as "native" to Klingons, therefore Klingon battlecruisers don't suffer any retributions for having built-in cloaks and such.
Having a battlecruiser is a bonus perk to the Fed. faction that's suposed to be consisted mainly of standard cruisers in the engineering track, that's why it's a bit less effective than the faction considered to have them as 'native'.
:rolleyes: What are you on? I'd like to try some!
How is the Bort better really? Sure it can use Cannons but it's way to slow to use them effectively...it's like a Vo'quv but without the pets.
Tell me...how does on of the fleet Raptors stack up to a fleet Defiant? Sad that the Raptors can't even stack up to the Defiant...if they can't stack up to it they sure as hell can't stack up to the multitude of other Escorts you have.
How about we look at Sci ships? The Varanus can't hold a candle to many of the Fed Sci ships...especially you have no rights to complain about the DSD's. Sure it has less thank 2k hull more than the Fed one and it has cloak, but Fed one has a better shield mod and smaller crew. Not to mention Feds have the Vesta...the best Sci ship in the game bar none.
How about we talk carriers? Sure the Vo'quv is better than the Atrox...but the HEC is better than the uhh....umm...that's right KDF doesn't have anything to match the HEC, then there is the Vesta...umm...well...I think you can see where I'm going with this one too, can compare the Orion FDC's to the DNC...but in most cases the DNC wins there...
Don't give me this BS that Klingon ships are better.
For the record, the KDF doesn't get better ships. It gets better battlecruisers, because like I mentioned - the devs. consider them native to the KDF. Just like the Fed. gets better science vessels because they're probably considered native to the Feds, although I haven't read an official statement regarding this. It's playing on a unique point of each faction, it's not that a faction's ships are better or worse in general.
The Qib also has a higher turn rate and inertia. It's superior to the Eclipse in every possible way.
I'm glad they're different, though. It would be even more boring if they just copied all of the stats.
Fed did get better intel science ship and better intel escort that klingons right?
Ummmm... the stats are pretty much copied, just that they're giving the Klingon Cruiser a slight edge on ... everything!
The fact that it has a battle cloak would have given enough balance by its own, they wouldn't have had to drop the turn rate and Hitpoints as well
If you want more equality in the game then why not start at the beginning?
It does not have a higher inertia. It has the same. I'm not seeing why the Qib would have a higher turn rate since it has more hull and 2x the crew. Seems completely out of place.
As for the cruisers, I thought the general rule was KDF gets better stealth and faster turning, Feds get more hull. Then you get either cannon-compatibility or the full 4 cruiser commands. Its not that 1000 hull is going to make much of a difference (if anything), but its the principle of the thing. Lets have some consistency.
But it is consistent, people just don't pay attention. We're talking battlecruisers here, not comparing to a regular Federation cruiser. I'm sure the Guardian will have more hull and the 4 cruiser commands, because it's a standard cruiser. The Eclipse is a battlecruiser, something not considered standard for Starfleet design in this game, so having a ship class the Feds. are not suposed to have is considered as a perk by itself, that's why the faction that has "native" battlecrusiers will have a slight edge in this class.
Following that logic then, Mogh vs Avenger. Same everything, including turn and hull, only difference being the cloak. So Eclipse should get a hull and turn boost both?
Personally I'd just see the Eclipse keep the slower turn, have a superior hull, keep them both more 'faction traditional' even with the adjusted cloaking (besides, they both get a boost). And if its gonna mount DHCs, then it looses the cruiser command (not like DHCs are a huge advantage these days anyways, so seems a fair tradeoff, plus the Qwib Qwib gets the trait bonus). Some differences that stick to whats been done with other ships for the past couple years. Call it too many years of tabletop wargaming; every mechanical advantage should have a corresponding mechanical cost.
In other words, its utter BS and hogwash. The truth is that Cryptic likes to make the non fed faction ships/consoles/boffs, etc. a little better in the hopes that people will go play them. After all, if a player decides he just has to have the best toys and already has all the fed toys... it´ll be double or triple the profit for cryptic if they buy up all the KDF and Rom goodies.
Some may call it cynical but for proof, if you can find some of the older podcasts devs would be quite candid about making the KDF exclusive consoles better to entice more players to play them. Its also surprising to no one that when the Roms were released they were given ridiculously OP ships. But that wasn´t enough! Nope, they had to give them boffs that boosted DPS through traits.
There is no balance in STO, there never will be because the game is not designed around gameplay, its designed around promoting sales.
I´m not saying you can´t get enjoyment from it. I´m saying everyone, new and old really needs to accept that this is what STO is, it will not change in that regard. If it bothers one enough they really should vote with their wallet. I have, I haven´t spent a dime on STO in forever and I don´t plan to. Sadly, there´s enough whales willing to throw their money at a trek game that Crpytic has not felt the need to design around gameplay and not sales.
Don't ask me, I'm just saying what Cryptic told us. You've been around long enough to know that barely anything Crpytic does, especially if it's game balance related, follows any known logic.
However, do note that the Eclipse also gets another thingy that is not standard for Fed ships and the Avenger doesn't have which may have contributed to the stats as they are - a built in cloak. The Avenger can only use one if you have another ship that comes with the device, so I guess in Cryptic's balancng "logic" paying 2.5k Zen more was balance enough. *shrugs*
Wutt?? So that's why the Feds get three ships....because cryptic is clearly trying to push you to join the kdf lol.....
The fed ships are rather ridiculous if you actually look at them. A sci ship with an ideal boff layout, with weird snooper drones that make cloaks even less safe. A teir six Intel super defiant that will probably outclass the teir six MaHa raptor. So why not just let the qib have it's day.
Oh ya, and all those "exclusive" kdf consoles right....like aceton, plasmonic leech etc....super exclusive I know, maybe one day the Feds can get them....wait.....
The Feds get 3 ships because they are the most populated faction, and Cryptic likes to sell lots of ships. I realize this may be a difficult concept to grasp for some. No worries though, always happy to explain it.
These 3 ships also look... different. So people will want to get them for their stats, but be unhappy with their looks. But that´s alright, sooner rather than later we´ll see either skins for them or newer ships that look better and/or more traditional. Take your pick, Cryptic either has great marketing or hopeless idiots. Either way the result is that players end up buying more ships. Perhaps you´ll notice a trend going on?
You also say that in all likelihood ship A will outshine ship B, so why not let ship B be better than ship C. That is a bad question. If a child asked me that I´d be far more understanding. At least if the person asking cared for a well designed game. Do you want a well designed game?
Sadly true. Still given how much else is changing with this expansion, trying to make us all do a fresh start, it'd be a good time for them to do the same, establish some guidelines and stick to them rather than be all arbitrary. We can encourage at least.
They DO have guidelines. They build and design around selling ships. While that has a definite accusatory tone I say it put the truth out plainly. STO is a F2P game, it has most of the issues that f2p games have. Denying or ignoring it, deluding ourselves that STO is a special snowflake won´t help us at all. Once this concept is internalized you stop being so invested on the lore as much and simply start caring about the gameplay, or conversely you stop caring about making a capable ship and do things like flying connies in Borg STFs, just for the fun of it and not caring what anyone says.
wut?
The ship will the smallest hull and shields then everything else is the most superior ship?
Wow!
You also forgot that they're typically some of the least tactical ships KDF side (in the console area at least). They're typically outperformed in their role by most other KDF ships. The all uni BOff seating is a gimmick.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!