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Long live the Romulan Star Empire
havokreign
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Man, It'd be great if the narrative didn't lock you into being a Republic cronie, especially with so many of the early missions being done in a way that you really do get to choose whether or not to help the Tal Shiar.
But in the end your character is invariably just all, j/k j/k. :rolleyes:
But in the end your character is invariably just all, j/k j/k. :rolleyes:
Post edited by havokreign on
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— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Even the Dominion was doing this during the Dominion War. They was making promises to the Breen and others just to get them to fight for their cause. Then later they would deal with them as well. As it was shown later during the war. As they wanted to rule not share it with others.
I don't think the Tal Shiar is up to being whipped around as slaves. To me I'm glad my Romulan isn't part of the Tal Shiar ruled by the Iconians.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
In the end you can completely ignore current storyline and make your own. "Generous" developers gave some imperial uniforms and IRW ship prefix so we can have some fun too.
Our empire shall live if we shall carry it upon ourselves.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
We wouldn't necessarily have to indulge the Iconian influence too much or too directly for a TS character or storyline, we could easily say that that information was more restricted to the higher ranked leaders. Maybe we could have an extra twist in having a high level Tal Shiar toon briefed on the Iconian role and then needing to pick sides again, stay with the TS or defect to the Republic or even tag on as a Republic spy like that one Subcommander...
I think there's a lot of potential to a story like that this and I would definitely want to give it a shot.
If you haven't done so, I suggest you read Hakeev's "letter" from the "Mountain Pass" Rom Rep mission (I think?)
I found it rather poignant, that even he understood (and regretted?) that they were being manipulated by the Iconians, and although, you may not agree with the Tal Shiar's methods, or with Empress Sela's rule, they do have the best interests of Romulans as their primary goal.
I actually think the Tal Shiar could be absorbed into the new Romulan Republic, and it would be an interesting "plot twist" or story arc. There are some members who are totally intractable, and only interested in their own power, but many I think could become "operatives" (particularly in DR?) who work for the Republic and not against it.
Very true, they ruled with a iron fist and terrorized their members. Even to the point where they was "feeding" their own people to the Elachi for their twisted sick madness. That mission alone made my Romulan hate the Tal Shiar.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
this is basically how I feel too, but it could have been some lolz to be the ungodly 2D villain for an alt or 2 :P
When they announced LoR I wanted to march under the Raptor's wings in the name of the Romulan Star Empire, not this TRIBBLE Republic run by idiots that think its great fun to flick on Iconian gateways on a rushed schedule despite concerns from their own engineering staff and their invited "expert". And I sure don't really want to March under the cartoon devil caricature of Romulans they turned the Imperial Remnants and the Tal Shiar into. At least I didnt spend the money on the LoR pack to be slapped in the face with the current plot/fraction. I'd have turned odd colors and lit up the forums with "colorful metaphors"
So I think, yes, that a agreement with great parts of the TS (nearly all did not know what role very few individuals played in the Hobus-catastrophy) and the Imperial Remnants is possible. It would be better if the game-makers had decided that there could be a possibility to rally traditional thinking Romulans and go back to the tradition of the RSE. No idealized "free" society as the Republic is shown (with many elements which have nothing to do with Romulan tradition and who seem to lead into Federation 2.0 with pointed ears), but a hard fighting bunch of men and women dreaming about restoring the Empire, and to protect its people from foreign influence and domination and to end internal civil conflicts - by all means necessary.
Perhaps a Empire which remembers a little bit on some aspects of the Imperial Remnants in Star Wars after the death of Palpatine, when they rallied around men like Thrawn and Pellaeon - men with hard tactics but not black-hat-villains, with the wish to save for what they fought so long.
Some kind of "The Empire EVER will strike back!":D
Of course it would also in my eyes be enough if the RR would be not so ******* un-romulan-like (at least in the eyes of quiet several of the players. including me), so that you still have the feeling of playing a REAL romulan like in Next Generation or the Original Series (which show, of course, only the Federation-biased point of view of the Empire, not the internal look). But I guess for THAT people argued since legacy of Romulos started...
If you like this idea, then you'll like what RP route the IRF has taken.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
I actually modelled my Romulan character on Grand Admiral Thrawn. He fights the Tal Shiar because he has to, they've betrayed the Empire and its people just as much as the Separatists. He's spent his whole life in service to the Empire as an officer in the Imperial Fleet. He commanded a Warbird during the Dominion War. He lost his father at an early age when the Warbird he served on was destroyed by Kirk's Enterprise. After Hobus he found himself increasingly at odds with the Tal Shiar attached to his command ship, and finally refused a direct order to destroy a Romulan colony. His officers secretly helped him escape the ship, and he retired to Virinat, where he hoped to live out a peaceful existence out of sight of the Tal Shiar. After the attack on Virinat, he rejoined the Imperial Fleet, and was reinstated to his rank. He now leads a squadron of Imperial Warbirds, and defends his part of the Empire from anyone who chooses to threaten it.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
In my mind, the RSE still lives, and has freed itself from the Tal Shiar. So now, we have the RSE restoring itself to how it was, since the loss of one planet would not destroy an Empire the way D'Tan says it has (that is all political propoganda to favour support of outsiders to the cause of the Republic. D'Tan is not as innocent and free as he makes out to those beyond our borders) and the Republic and Empire have reached a sort of understanding. Let the Republic deal with the iconians and the spheres. The Empire will simply handle security in Romulan space and learn everything from the spheres via their ambassadors to the republic (such as my character). It helps having the IRW prefix (so glad they put that in), wearing the TNG uniforms and playing a playlist of Ron Jones's romulan music from tng to get into character.
And for those times when she gets insulted as a republic dog? That's because she's assisting a Romulan colony, and the other commander doesn't recognise the repblic at all.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
For me, my char is from a family with a strong tradition of serving the Empire on its borders. He is serving the RR at least for the moment since they helped him against some elements of the TS (which are in his eyes even distrusted by many of their comrades and which have vetrayed their comrades, their Empire and the Empress). But he becomes more and more worried if he see what path the Republic seem to choose, and he is working for a correction of that direction - towards a Romulan unification of the RR, the TS and the Imperial Remnants under a real senate and a real praetor/ consul/ empress or whatsoever, someone who stands for all Romulans. That could be the way to an new Empire which had secured borders and could choose between having a alliance (on terms as eaquels) with the Federation OR the Klingon Empire (or with a alliance of smaller powers which would follow Romulan leadership) - as the Praetor and the Senate decide. An Empire which defends it borders against all enemies and which is feared again.
He see towards D'Tan and his inner circle with huge and even growing distrust, and would like to see them removed from power since they seem to him un-romulan. In his eyes, they sacrifice the unification of the Romulans and the rebirth of the Empire in its old strength -what should come first for all true childrens of the Raptor - for their dream of a new (but highly untraditional) society and a unification with the Vulcans, what is of course a wrong way. Vulcan ideology may be fine for individual people, but not for a society (since the Vulcans of 2409 are only a minor part of the Federation - no future any Romulan would like to see for his people). And of course he did not trust the Federation and the Klingons as nations (since he remembers the past of the RSE), but he has no problem to accept some members of the KDF and Federation defectors on his ship. And if they day comes on which the greater good of the Romulans need actions against inner and outer foes...;)
Their time there did open their eyes a bit to life without all the secrecy and fear that came with the Tal Shiar. Unfortunately this also led them to drop their guard a bit too much. For a time they were both willing to give the Republic a chance despite their concerns but the activation of the Iconian Gateway despite all the concerns over it, especially from the Republic's own staff, was the last straw. D'Tan and Kererek could have waited, should have, but no they wanted to show off and gain glory too fast. A'dranna nearly earned herself a plasma bolt to the skull when she decided to claim the gateway leading to Elements know where! Jarok further reinforced their opinion of Republic incompetence when she tried to lay claim to a second Dyson Sphere.
Now Ta'ina uses her contacts among her Federation allies to help her people with the industries and other infrastructure they desperately need, while obtaining some for the eventual fall of the Republic. Hru'hfirh(a nickname), her brother works with the KDG to obtain the weapons, ships and parts needed to facilitate that fall. The old empire's remains are too weak and corrupted to save, the Tal Shiar is similarly beyond redemption. Both look forward to the rise of the Raptor Empire, the best of both old and new ways and finally casting off the racial naming prejudice to show our Reman brothers and sisters we really do wish complete coexistence with them.
S'koalus was a low ranking, civilian, engineer when the home worlds were lost. He drifted for a time, avoiding Obisek's radical resistance, and enjoying his time not under a Romulan yoke. He'd barely been on Virinat a year before all hell broke loose. He's still not entirely sure how Tovan convinced him to take the bridge while letting Tovan near an engine room but, command suited him it seemed. Watching his fellow Remans get more and more desperate, even detonating a planet sized Thalaron bomb, finally drove the point home for S'koalus. There was no staying out of the fight, or just living free, in this age one had to stand up and be counted. The Republic is a means to an end for him. His people need a foundation beneath their feet from which to fight for their rights to life and freedom. In his eyes D'Tan and his Republic cannot hold, but it might just last long enough for Remains to claim their place among the stars, and stop feeling so desperate that they feel they have to use WMDs.
She witnessed the early struggles to rebuild the RSE from her home on Virinat, both before and after the Hobus Incident - a tragedy that claimed her family. Her allegiances as a teen were towards those who preached a safer, freer Romulan state, which would rely on the fortitude of its people. Donatras short-lived breakaway state and openness to their oft-ignored Reman sisters and brothers, and Taris original push for unity of the survivors, gave Triana hope for a brighter future. But as a new, corrupt RSE emerged, Triana remained on Virinat and continued her studies in medicine. With so many Romulans lost to disaster, or committing atrocities in the Tal Shiar, she felt it her duty to protect those Romulans that chose to remain free.
Triana took up arms during the invasion of Virinat and eventually made it to the Republics flotilla. Once there, she began to view DTans Republic as the true expression of the Romulan people. She valued that the nascent successor state that cherished its strong citizenry and promoted freedom and peace, all while restablishing Romulans as a dominant political and military force in the known galaxy.
She's witnessed the Tal Shiar's experimentation on its own people, their questionable work with the Elachi, and their abhorrent 'adaptations' of Borg technology. The Tal Shiar is the new RSE, and Triana wants no part of it. The Republic in its infancy certainly isn't perfect, but it's a brilliant first step towards new life for Romulans and their allies everywhere. D'Tan and Adm. Kererek have been great leaders for the political and military endeavours, especially in carving out a leading, independent role in recent cross-faction accords with the Federation and Klingon Empire.
The Republic is the successor state to the old RSE that we've been looking for. And Triana is willing to fight for its survival.
But you are right for the more "modern" Star Trek - beside of the Borg etc. Nero and Shinzon were surely one-dimensional villains which had nearly nothing you could like. But of course that mean not that this is the best or only way to do such things. It is the mistake of STO to go along that path with Hakeev etc.
Yeah...because it's not like the Empire or the Tal Shiar have ever played with technology they shouldn't have :rolleyes:
And if you look down to the "personal level" - how often was the small "world" of the Enterprise (anyway which ship ever used the name) or Voyager or DS9 nearly destroyed because someone did not think twice before he pulled a trigger? More than once, I would guess. Many people play with powers they could not control and which they not fully understand.
Guess what. Sycophancy and ability tend to be mutually exclusive, because the smart people with the guts to tell their ruler when she's doing something stupid don't last long under a totalitarian system. Hell, they didn't live long even back when the Senate still had any actual power, either.
That means when you suddenly lose the guy at the top, like when Sela was kidnapped, things inevitably become chaotic. And this is on top of the chaos already produced by the Republic providing hard evidence that, hello? the Tal'Shiar, a major state agency, was wholly responsible for the deaths of billions! We've seen the result in real life: most people aren't going to draw a distinction between Hakeev's rogue splinter group and the entire organization, because they were operating under the same banner.
Which means, and this is supported by "Hidden Camera", that the Empire is now in a level of chaos unseen since Hobus. The Tal'Shiar are so desperate to get on top of it they even tried to recruit their mortal enemy for the top spot (fortunately D'Tan was smart enough to see they were trying to make him a figurehead and told them to imirrhlhhsen mogai).
So, in other words, long live the Republic! Death to the Tal'Shiar! And an end to the People's Republic of K -- 'scuse me, to what passes for the Romulan Empire these days!
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It is of course also a wrong point of view that totalitarian systems (if the RSE under Sela was one - seems for me more like a authoritarian) could not be highly effective (and that democratic systems could not be corrupt to the core). I speak not about morality but effectiveness. It is also difficult to judge a non-human society like a human - the Romulan society of which Sela was a child (much more than D'Tan, I would say) has a complete different tradition and core of values and tradition than the human. Hard to believe that Selas Empire was so much different from some Praetors-rule in the past. I also want to add that I think things went chaotic not only because of Selas kidnapping (since her personal stile of leadership did indeed play a role) but because the Empire was in a state of war - which means the actions of the Klingons, Remans, Federations and the Republican forces (let aside smaller vultures) did also have a huge part in the disorder. Like the Roman Empire, the Romulan had many foes. Sela had done a lot to strengthen the Empire after other leaders and foreign or internal foes had nearly destroyed it (Shinzon, the Klingon attack, the Reman uprising, the civil war).
Third it is of course wrong that THE TAL SHIAR was wholly responsible for the death of billions. Some very few members of the TS - of which some even tried to betray Sela - had something to do with the Hobus-catastrophe. They (or at least nearly all) of that very few did even not know what the result would be. And those of the people which were involved who were manipulated and mind-washed by the Elachi/Iconians were as "guilty" as Picard for the destruction which the Borg caused with his help (have not heard that he was executed for that). The Tal Shiar as organization has nearly nothing to do with the Hobus-thing.
The hidden camera show us only one thing - that D'tan is indeed the traitor towards the Romulan people he seems to be. Instead of seeking a agreement with the TS which could safe the lives of thousands or even millions of Romulans and end a bitter and needless war, he is playing the virgin on the dancing-place. He is more willing to sell his people away to enemies like the Federation than to sacrifice his in many Romulan eyes sick and foreign ideology of "reunification" (with Vulcan) and "new society". Or at least many Romulans will see it so.
So in other words, I guess the battle cry of freedom of more and more Romulans both inside and outside the Republic should and will be: "Long live the united Romulan People! Death to our outside foes and all inside traitors (guess who is called so :cool:)! Let us rally round the flag, Republicans, Imperial Remnants, Tal Shiar and Remans, rally once again - and an end to the pseudo-Romulan Republic D'Tan and his hardcore supporters try to sell to us, which is nothing more than a Federation and Vulcan-born lie!":D
I agree that after what cryptic and others had done to the Romulans they could not act as first class power. But one in the second row, and moving foreward - that seems not impossible. Even less if they would threw away the foreign ideology and idea of a Federation-style republic and tried to reunite all Romulan (and Reman) people. Such a alliance of the TS, the Imperial Remnants, the Remans and the Romulan Republic would have the potential to rebuild the Empire (in which form is up to the future).
Cryptic seems to have used the "BEHOLD MY INDOMITABLE POWER" shtick for their "major" npc villains to become pawns of the Iconians, and the brainwashing for "lesser" minions of those npc.
Most of those limited number of people who were involved seem for me to have acted more in the way "stupid but in good believe" like the Klingons with Praxis, D'Tan with the Iconian gateway etc. And I would add that the difficult situation of the Empire at that time which had at that point overcome a Rebellion (the split into two Romulans states) after several losses and had to face a second one (the Remans) plus outside hostile powers and subversive powers like D'Tan and his reunification-movement from inside AND the problems to feed their own people during the civil war etc. - played a role in acting too fast and thinking too less. Desperate people do wrong things.
As far as I read (I may be wrong), when the Americans tested the first atomic bomb they did not know for sure if that would not trigger a reaction which could end in a much greater catastrophe (some scientist thought that might PERHAPS happen). But they were in times of war, and thought they needed that weapon and needed it now. So they pushed the button. It went well (for them), but they could not be 100 percent sure that it would work so. The Romulans acted similar - and lost.
A few thought points for why I think things are as they are. The times we saw Sela in the series she was short tempered, loud, abrasive, and unwilling it seemed to take criticism. While the higher level Romulans we have seen in other areas, including beside her, have been cool, smooth, and almost amused when an insult is tossed their way. Look to the senator from pale moon light. He steps aboard DS9 and in the most casual tone rattles off Sisko's history including holding him responsible for the war he was in. Commander's and politicians hold some dignity and think their way through things. Sela, has captured Spock and is still writing the speech she wants him to give. When he logically tears apart her position, she does not have a factor of his worth alive to toss back. She does not hold to dignity, she loses her thin veneer of civility and announces her hate for him. She is similar during the Klingon civil war. Her tactics are one dimensional, carry no inherent backups, and fall apart from underestimating how fast a computer can react to her. So Yes I can see her empire being built on a tenuous base and dissolving once she lets herself be removed.
D'Tan and his choice to the tal shiar. Remember they invaded his office after hours to try and intimidate him. He sees they wish to make him a puppet and suggests they come back during business hours. I will admit he got preachy about light of day but I never said he was perfect. But he is right. To bring the tal shiar remnants into the fold they need to be shown being brought home. To show the people and the galaxy that the Republic is for the romulan people. All of them.
And I do think many of the rank and file tal shiar can be saved. I have run the romulan tutorial several times. Note that when the romulan troops beam in they have calls of "find the hidden weapons." and for searches. They were briefed on the very things told to Charva about smuggling on Virinat. So many of them have been duped by Hakeev and could be redeemed. I wish we had better missions than Charva's to do just that.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And would you not agree that outside factors play a role for the breakdown of the Empire? It would be a little bit too much blame it all on Sela...
And I would say it is complicated to say "The Tal Shiar must come" (and that with the subtext "and surrender"). They and the Imperial Remnants still hold not-so-small parts of the Empire. I think from a Romulan point of view it should be less the question who blink first, who comes to whom (By the way at least the TS-leader came to D'Tan - have not seen so much that D'Tan had send emissaries to try to made peace with the Imperial Remnants and the TS). Of course it is only logical that he did not trust her (and she did not trust him) but a little bit more readiness to try to find a common ground I think would be for the better.
So it would made more sense, I guess, in the eyes of many Romulans if the Factions agree to a power-sharing deal. Not so much this or that surrender to the other side but melting into a new Empire (or what ever). At least for now D'Tan do little (little, I say not nothing) to show that the Republic is made for ALL Romulans, or at least I have not found much in that direction (please correct me if I am wrong). And I want to add that he has no real legitimation aside his role as leader of an uprising - few of the old nobles behind him, it is even not sure if he ever was elected by a legitimized body (Senate, People of the Republic or whatever body that shall be). He has some de-facto power, but until now only might gave him right (to rule). So it is a bit too much to say the others had surrender to him.
Of course most of the TS could be "safed" (and I think they and the Imperial Remnants think similar about the Republicans - Charva for example seem to be interested to safe their opponents, not to kill them). Main problem is that both sides believe they are right and do the best for the Romulan people. But it needs two to do the tango, so both sides surely will have to move. And that means also sacrifices from D'Tan (and in the end it is hard to believe that he will be in power still, at least not as solo ruler).
Then again, when the Tal Shair general was written the Romulan narrative was ....quite different. It's possible that Cryptic considers these 'reasonable' Tal Shiar to be obsolete...and they might (regrettably) decide to revisit Tau Dewa and rewrite them into being even more one-dimensional villains like they did with the episode 'The Return'-I really hope not. (The Return was one of my favorite Romulan-centered episodes)
At any rate, one thing's for sure-Cryptic needs to supply some kind of closure to the Romulan Civil War at some point. The greater part of the Romulan Star Emprie is supposedly still embroiled in civil war, and Sela is still missing, and the Elachii and tal Shiar are still threats, (not even mentioning the Undine and Voth) yet the Republic has decided to merrily skip off to the Delta Quadrant while chaos is erupting all over their backyard and their own people continue to die by the thousands. The Republic really needs to check their priorities.
Then again, the Hurq/Feklhri arc for the KDF is still resting on a cliffhanger, so who knows when we'll revisit the Star Empire.
And you are right, there should be more olive branch missions. Things to offer to bring distant RSE and TS worlds to join in even small ways with the RR. Romulan politics is a chess game. It is time to make a move.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
My character Tsin'xing
markhawkman: But she must be clever and cunning or she never would made it to the top. Leader of the Romulan state is nothing you could becom by a casting-show "the most short tempered person around". She ad tricked several opponents, found some battle too, I guess...
feiqa: Sad but true, Sela is not shown in a very conving way. Yu could argue that in part it is cryptic fault who seem not to present the enemies very grown up (anyway which one), and in part say that she was again acting in huge troubble, und enorm stress. But anyway I would wish she would show more cold ice and less hot fire. On the other hand their "we are Romulan"-speech you could lissen on Hakeevs recorders sounds not so bad - I guess such words would go much more Romulans straight into their heart, more surely than will be convinced by D'Tans words.
That she cooperated with the True Way I blame her less - the Romulan Republic did also made contact with enemies, ignoring what that may mean for the Romulans under Imperial Rule.