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Tiers of confusion
rinkster
Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
I think one of the issues arising out of the upcoming ship upgrades is a nomenclature problem.
Previous to DR, all ships gained past level 40 were considered tier 5 ships.
Thus a nine console science reconaissance vessel, picked up at level 40, was considered the same tier as a fleet version of the same ship with ten consoles.
While I can see the logic for this pre DR, they were all 'endgame' ships, it is muddying the waters regarding tier 6.
Let's, utterly unofficially and just for the sake of clarity, call all the ten console ships we have now tier 5+, as opposed to just tier 5.
Comparing tier 5 to tier 6 (leaving out the tier 5+ ships) its easy to see the progression.
Extra hull, boff seats and types and an extra console, bringing it to ten.
Now, we have to recognise that the upgrade process works, not by raising to a specific level, but by addition.
The upgrade adds a console slot, no boff slots or types, but allows for most of the other features.
This means we actually now have five categories of ships.
Tier 5, tier 5+, tier 6, tier 5U and tier 5U+.
Obviously we don't know precisely yet what the extra boff slot/type looks like, but an extra console slot is a powerful boost....regardless of the other features.
Thus, I am happy to conclude that when we were told the upgrade process was to keep our ships competitive, while not being identical to tier 6, this was true.
A tier 5U+, with eleven console slots, may well be competitive with a tier 6 ship with just ten slots.
A couple of caveats though.
Equivilants to the fifth mastery trait are apparently also going to be available via non-ship routes.
I'd strongly suggest that not all of these are behind paywalls, like lock boxes.
Let some versions be available from normal play, even if they have to be somewhat lesser quality.
Also, regarding the upgrade process itself, I'd strongly advise that each toon get one of these tokens at an appropriate level for free.
Just one.
Treat it like getting a new ship at earlier levels.
If you did that, then you'd have the room to move the price point up from 500 zen.
I think you'd find that more people will be happy to be generous with their wallets, upgrading their personal fleets, if you're a little bit generous with it as well.
Speaking personally, and as I understand that there has to be a business dimension to such things, I'd happily trade the account wide unlock aspect of this for a single upgrade token for each toon.
I honestly think you'd shift more upgrade tokens this way, as well as softening the blow for many players.
Anyway, sorry for yet another post on this subject, but i wanted to present the above idea clearly and not have them lost in a mega thread.
Previous to DR, all ships gained past level 40 were considered tier 5 ships.
Thus a nine console science reconaissance vessel, picked up at level 40, was considered the same tier as a fleet version of the same ship with ten consoles.
While I can see the logic for this pre DR, they were all 'endgame' ships, it is muddying the waters regarding tier 6.
Let's, utterly unofficially and just for the sake of clarity, call all the ten console ships we have now tier 5+, as opposed to just tier 5.
Comparing tier 5 to tier 6 (leaving out the tier 5+ ships) its easy to see the progression.
Extra hull, boff seats and types and an extra console, bringing it to ten.
Now, we have to recognise that the upgrade process works, not by raising to a specific level, but by addition.
The upgrade adds a console slot, no boff slots or types, but allows for most of the other features.
This means we actually now have five categories of ships.
Tier 5, tier 5+, tier 6, tier 5U and tier 5U+.
Obviously we don't know precisely yet what the extra boff slot/type looks like, but an extra console slot is a powerful boost....regardless of the other features.
Thus, I am happy to conclude that when we were told the upgrade process was to keep our ships competitive, while not being identical to tier 6, this was true.
A tier 5U+, with eleven console slots, may well be competitive with a tier 6 ship with just ten slots.
A couple of caveats though.
Equivilants to the fifth mastery trait are apparently also going to be available via non-ship routes.
I'd strongly suggest that not all of these are behind paywalls, like lock boxes.
Let some versions be available from normal play, even if they have to be somewhat lesser quality.
Also, regarding the upgrade process itself, I'd strongly advise that each toon get one of these tokens at an appropriate level for free.
Just one.
Treat it like getting a new ship at earlier levels.
If you did that, then you'd have the room to move the price point up from 500 zen.
I think you'd find that more people will be happy to be generous with their wallets, upgrading their personal fleets, if you're a little bit generous with it as well.
Speaking personally, and as I understand that there has to be a business dimension to such things, I'd happily trade the account wide unlock aspect of this for a single upgrade token for each toon.
I honestly think you'd shift more upgrade tokens this way, as well as softening the blow for many players.
Anyway, sorry for yet another post on this subject, but i wanted to present the above idea clearly and not have them lost in a mega thread.
Post edited by rinkster on
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Comments
Especially if you consider the rather messy way of upgrading itself.
Imagine you're a new player. At Level 40, you decide that you really like the Defiant and want to update it to Tier 5, so you buy the C-Store variant. Then, you level up to 50, and suddenly get the option to upgrade your ship. You do that, of course, seems neat enough.
Then you're at level 60, join a fleet, and learn that your Retrofit also has a Fleet Retrofit version - that you must buy first, and then upgrade to Tier 5U. And you realize that you wasted money on an upgrade that you didn't need.
I think it would be better if they could abolish the final distinction between Fleet Versions and non-Fleet versions, or have the upgrade of one variant r also include the upgrade of the other variant. Something to avoid infintie confusion.
But even then, there will still be problems, as long as not all ships are fully Tier 6. Console slots and Bridge Officer Slots are not the same value, they cannot be that easily compared. It's an Apples vs Oranges thing.
My work here is done
Agreed.
But its not a grapes vs sewing machines comparison.
Extra console vs extra boff slot are things of a similar order of magnitude, imo.
Assuming that tier 6fleet ships will exist of course. But I consider this a very safe bet.
Yeah, thats what the + designation was for, fleet as well as lobi/lock box ships.
i know they're being treated differently as regards upgrade cost, but I'm putting them in the same category relative power-wise.
They share the ten console element, the main difference is probably consoles.
Which i think we have to treat as a seperate element to ship tier.
ETA, and you're right. There's going to be a tier 6+. Arguably the ones that can slot the specialist boff may well be those now.
It's that plus that caused the confusion and needs to go. I mean, 5u+? That just sounds silly to me, and is why some people don't understand that a 5u fleet/+ will have more consoles, shields and hull than a 6. And why some think their fleet ship after upgrade will have the same stats as a non fleet after grade.
Scrap the plus, start calling fleet what it is, and I think some confusion will end. Keep the plus and too many will not understand what it refers to.
Edit, think about it this way. Plus was never understood the same by everyone last year,, not last month, not today, and all of that confusion will always remain inherent to the name/label because most people think they do understand. You can't clear confusion using the same term. Also, from gorngonzollas posts it is clear the devs think of tier 5 ships as white and fleet as green with the fleet mod, just the same as the difference between a white beam and one with acc. Getting the players to "speak Dev" improves communication.