Cryptic is essentially shaming us and using cheap con psychology to get us to buy into the whole idea. "Your ship will not be obsolete, but you'll really want to buy these new ships with awesome powers that your old ships won't have and can't get". Not an exact quote, but that's my interpretation of it.
IMO you are 100% correct. This is exactly how STO has been since F2P. They have consistently "moved the goal posts" on every part of the game. They devalue, nerf or completely remove things under the guise of "power creep". Yet everything they (re)introduce using monetized methods ADDS to power creep, unnecessarily.
Tired of it all really. I wish someone with a Wells Class ship could transport me to another timeline. One where STO still released a New Featured Episode each Saturday and never went F2P. That my friend would be awesome...
I don't even have an excelsior. And yet I definitely fear what the playerbase of zealous excelsior fanatics will do if ...
- T6 marginalizes the ship in a meaningful way
- Hawk's projected space combat changes nerfs or marginalizes A2B in a meaningful way.
You all think the venom and toxicity is high right now? You haven't even seen what can happen on here when Cryptic makes a big bonehead move.
You're not being realistic if you think aux to bat doesn't need to get nerfed in some way. When it was originally put in, Cryptic didn't intend for it to be spammed so hard with faw and to such a degree that all or most boff powers reached global in no time. How is that balanced?
You're not being realistic if you think aux to bat doesn't need to get nerfed in some way.
I think I'm being very realistic about what will happen on the forums IF they do such a thing. My opinion on the build itself isn't really relevant since I don't have the ship. I was just stating, captain obvious style at that: If they marginalize the Excelsior by adding T6 and then on top of it nerf the most popular build for the Excelsior ... there might be some forum backlash.
That's all I was saying. Peeps might be upset and post their upset-ness.
T5 ships are appropriate at lvl 40-49, just as T1 ships are appropriate at lvl 1-9.
Since the expansion also reportedly includes raising the level cap to 60, another tier of ships would seem appropriate to this.
I don't hear anyone screaming about being "forced" to abandon their starter ship when they hit 10 (well, except for those who bought the T1 Connie and want it to be T5). Nor when you "have to" upgrade to T3 at lvl 20. Why is this particular transition causing so much tsuris?
For one many people don't spend hard earned $ for those lower levels. Instead they spend it on higher level ships. Or some cases spent hours, days, weeks, etc on grinding them out. Just to purchase them. Some are like me that takes each purchase with a lot of thought. To make sure it was a good investment for gaming time. I just don't buy to be buying. Each one serves a purpose on how I play. Then you have the ones who spent hours to figure out the best build for them. Even myself is thinking on how to outfit some of my ships as they keep coming out with new stuff.
Then you have the Fleet ones. They spent the most to get that ship. Cash, grinding, helping the fleet, etc. That is a ton of investment just to get that ship.
This is different than like WoW. Where you play and earn your gear. Here you spend $ for it or someone did. So this case its kinda harder to let the gear go. Even in WoW they was fussing about loosing their hard earned gear each expansion. So to fix this, they developed the Transmorg system. You can turn your current new gear into what ever gear you see fit. As long it wasn't vendor trash (white/grey) items. I heard since then I played they changed it up even more. Since so many praised it. Even myself was using and loving it.
This is not as easy as you think. Even my self will have to see how this "upgrade" they offering will effect. I may get 1 ship per my main 3 to upgrade, none at all, or all of them. It really depends.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I think I'm being very realistic about what will happen on the forums IF they do such a thing. My opinion on the build itself isn't really relevant since I don't have the ship. I was just stating, captain obvious style at that: If they marginalize the Excelsior by adding T6 and then on top of it nerf the most popular build for the Excelsior ... there might be some forum backlash.
That's all I was saying. Peeps might be upset and post their upset-ness.
My bad. I misinterpreted what you said and I agree with you. That being said, why didn't Cryptic Nerf aux to bat when 9.5 was released? They could have avoided x2 being poorly received by angering the aux to bat crowd in July instead of October. Heck, if Cryptic wants to Nerf our ships and Nerf aux to bat at the same time, then they need to buy a lot of flame shields in preparation for that. Yeah, good luck with that...
You dont go build a house for someone without asking them what they would like, what their needs are. You outline the system, THEN get feedback, modify it if need be, THEN build it. Measure twice, cut once.
I thought it was measure once, cut twice. Then get a new piece because you screwed that one up. Do it again then adjust your design to fit the mis-cut pieces you already have.
to the OP, I feel that being realistic and using past experience to inform myself about the future unknown that it is the proper decision to not support this game any further. (even if it is Star Trek)
I am interested in knowing when a player actually is able to buy a T6 ship. It would make no sense to make them available at 50 since that will negate the VA T5 ships. So, is it when you reach 60 just like the VA T5s are only accessible at the end? Maybe it is when you make Admiral (55) so you can get some storyline time with them. The whole concept needs to be explained clearly for the player-base since this can impact the acceptability of these new ships and how much players will spend on a VA T5 ship.
Maybe because they are looking for feedback on the forums before making any final decisions on building everything.
Feedback on what?
All we have are the pictures of three ships, and some background information from Voyager.
On the plus side, Redshirt's been activated again, so we should start seeing X2 stuff on tribble, but they've said that the first few rounds of changes on tribble will be code related. We won't see any new content for a while.
T5 ships are appropriate at lvl 40-49, just as T1 ships are appropriate at lvl 1-9.
Since the expansion also reportedly includes raising the level cap to 60, another tier of ships would seem appropriate to this.
I don't hear anyone screaming about being "forced" to abandon their starter ship when they hit 10 (well, except for those who bought the T1 Connie and want it to be T5). Nor when you "have to" upgrade to T3 at lvl 20. Why is this particular transition causing so much tsuris?
Lower level ships are either free or low cost novelties acquired for the skin or the console that can be used on later ships. Even the level 40-49 ships are free, but the VA T5 and Fleet T5 ships are real commodities that either are paid out of pocket or grinded for an bought with Dil (which can be traded for cash value Zen) These end game ship will lose their meaning and the cost entailed in acquiring and fitting with high end gear. The changes will be accepted, but the impact on players should be considered carefully... don't ignore the investment of money and time made by the players.
You know what's the most worrying part about that post? The fact that he says that they only release information once the system is fully operational. That means they're not done yet...
Cause if it's not exactly how they say it's going to be, people will give them hell to no end over it anyway. So it's ether "Get it right, make them complain about waiting" or "Post early, make a mistake or a change and make them complain about us not doing what we'd say we'd do"
Some of you couldn't even discuss the weather with a dev without going off on a high holy rant...
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Cause if it's not exactly how they say it's going to be, people will give them hell to no end over it anyway. So it's ether "Get it right, make them complain about waiting" or "Post early, make a mistake or a change and make them complain about us not doing what we'd say we'd do"
Some of you couldn't even discuss the weather with a dev without going off on a high holy rant...
I know...it almost seems like we've invested a lot of time and money into this game and our concern about the final product has something to do with that investment. Gosh, wow!!! Who would have thought?!
Guys, we will get more info soon on T6 ships and ship upgrades.
I for one, plan on testing this system out on the Tribble server once it hits there. Everyone should do the same and give honest feedback (meaning if you don't like the system tell them why, don't just devolve into a fit of RAGE!!!!!!).
I know asking for people not to rage is like asking for the Raiders to not suck, but I try anyway.
Guys, we will get more info soon on T6 ships and ship upgrades.
I for one, plan on testing this system out on the Tribble server once it hits there. Everyone should do the same and give honest feedback (meaning if you don't like the system tell them why, don't just devolve into a fit of RAGE!!!!!!).
I know asking for people not to rage is like asking for the Raiders to not suck, but I try anyway.
Your use of the word soon brings back bad memories of the old EP's use of the word soon when talking about upcoming content. *Soon*
I know...it almost seems like we've invested a lot of time and money into this game and our concern about the final product has something to do with that investment. Gosh, wow!!! Who would have thought?!
you think YOU invested "Time and Money"? Have you spent hours slaving in front of a computer trying to keep a bunch of whiners happy over trivial matters?
I've been on the receiving end of unhappy customers, heck I had it worse because they were all in the same room as me, so I have a fair deal of sympathy for Cryptic.
You are not an investor. You are a customer.
Investors expect a financial return from what they put in to the company. You do not expect to make money off these ships, off Delta Rising or off this game in general. You expect a product in return. People who spend money to get a product or service are customers. An Investor can be a custom of they wish to make use of the product or service into which they invested, but being a customer does not automatically make you an investor.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I for one, plan on testing this system out on the Tribble server once it hits there. Everyone should do the same and give honest feedback (meaning if you don't like the system tell them why, don't just devolve into a fit of RAGE!!!!!!).
Okay, here's some honest feedback.
Maybe if our honest feedback and bug reports actually resulted in an improved build sent to holodeck, I would be more interested in testing on Tribble.
The game-breaking (no, really. It crashed the client!) bug with the tailor for Season 9.5 made its way onto Holodeck despite being reported and verified on Tribble.
I don't care about Tribble testing rewards. I care about a better build sent to holodeck on launch day so everyone can enjoy it with fewer bugs than they may have had before.
But, Cryptic's only interest is sending it to holodeck ASAP come hell or high water. So, yeah. No thank you.
And since bugs that are known to crash the client apparently pass the litmus test (and I can point to any number of other examples of known quality-of-life bugs on Tribble that made their way onto Holodeck), what's the point in testing?
If Cryptic's end result is Holodeck, then my end result is Holodeck. If Cryptic can convince me testing on Tribble actually results in a better build on Holodeck, I will consider testing again.
Why are you all talking like you fly just 1 ship? I know for a fact the majority of you have several different ships, all between tiers 3 and 5. The game isn't based on the ship you fly, its based on you yourself. Your game e perience changes based on how you play and the choices you make. Everything from which career and race you pick to what type of weapons you use results I. Different experiences for everyone. This new expansion is just another road to travel down, and it will once again be the choice of the players what their experience is.
They mentioned that they will be releasing the last of the canon ships in this coming update. That's a direct response to so many players wanting more canon ships. And of course they're releasing g them as a higher tier, and with a new level cap and new abilities. As a company, they need to make a profit to stay in business. There will never be a happy median between us and them but at least they aren't just sitting back and letting the money roll in without working on other issues and expanding the game (companies like Dice and Bathedlsda should take notes). Almost every update or maintenance I see invol s fixing certain issues within the game.
And about new content. A new set of species to encounter, a new area of space, and new missions to play. That sounds like content to me. Tell me, what do you define as content, and what exactly would you like to see added? Because I haven't seen a single suggestion from the players that whine about it.
Players, play how you want, spend as you see fit (or don't), and stop listening to disgruntles players like the op.
Maybe if our honest feedback and bug reports actually resulted in an improved build sent to holodeck, I would be more interested in testing on Tribble.
Heh, c'mon - we don't report bugs and stuff on Tribble so that it will be fixed before it goes to Holodeck...we do it so it will be fixed within a year or two of hitting Holodeck rather than 2-3 years after it hits Holodeck.
Heh, c'mon - we don't report bugs and stuff on Tribble so that it will be fixed before it goes to Holodeck...we do it so it will be fixed within a year or two of hitting Holodeck rather than 2-3 years after it hits Holodeck.
To be fair, the example I used was fixed overnight as soon as it hit Holodeck. Many other game-breaking bugs that make the transition from Tribble to Holodeck also similarly get fixed rather quickly.
Which is kind of the point I'm trying to impress upon the devs. If it was that easy to fix overnight, what stopped that particular game-breaking bug from getting fixed before the build hit Holodeck to begin with?
What could have possibly been so important and vital that Season 9.5 could not have been delayed for a single day despite the fact there was a known and verified bug that crashed the entire client whenever someone accessed the tailor (something many players do every day)?
In theory, I'm all about testing and verifying bugs and making the game better via bug report tickets.
In practice, not so much. If people want to test, they can go right ahead. If they get the feeling they're doing good work by being productive testers, then who am I deny to the power of a placebo effect?
But it's just that. A placebo effect. I'm not convinced testing actually does anything tangible in terms of quality once something hits holodeck.
you think YOU invested "Time and Money"? Have you spent hours slaving in front of a computer trying to keep a bunch of whiners happy over trivial matters?
I've been on the receiving end of unhappy customers, heck I had it worse because they were all in the same room as me, so I have a fair deal of sympathy for Cryptic.
You are not an investor. You are a customer.
Pretty sure when you do a job, you get paid. Also pretty sure the customers are the ones whom are indirectly paying you. Sometimes when you are doing a job that involves customers you get to deal with unhappy ones.
I've done retail. I've personally dealt with the ones who make irrational demands or who have irrational expectations and while they tend to be loud they are also thankfully the exception. They also make for amusing stories latter on and are generally forgettable.
I've also personally dealt with unhappy customers who either I, my employees, or the company I worked for was responsible for them being unhappy. In those situations I would bend over backwards to fix the problem and the times when the problem could not be fixed were truly frustrating to no end and typically due to stupid 'policies'. They are also the reason I hope I never work in retail with a corporate overlord again.
The old line of 'the customer is always right' might be outdated and a good way to be taken advantage of. But at the same time the customer is the most important element of any business's success.
In practice, not so much. If people want to test, they can go right ahead. If they get the feeling they're doing good work by being productive testers, then who am I deny to the power of a placebo effect?
But it's just that. A placebo effect. I'm not convinced testing actually does anything tangible in terms of quality once something hits holodeck.
The entire testing and feedback system is broken. And while they tend to overhaul the in game systems frequently they do nothing to change the actual testing > feedback > improvement system aside from blaming it on the community being unable to offer enough 'constructive criticism'.
Their is never enough time allotted for any feedback to be incorporated before it hits holodeck. Their are no standards enforced on feedback given, no aggressive moderation of the feedback, nor any assurance it is getting to the developers. And that is just the tip of the ole iceberg.
Meh, I believe it's a staffing issue (not with the staff, but with the number of staff) in relation to their production schedules...and hope that Delta does well so they can increase the staff to accommodate the schedule.
Cryptic didn't intend for it to be spammed so hard with faw and to such a degree that all or most boff powers reached global in no time. How is that balanced?
Oh, I think they knew, ship after ship is released that seemed specifically built for aux2bat.
They sold the aux to bat doffs in lock boxes didn't they ?
Yeah, they knew alright. Their intent was to sell lockbox keys, you gotta put something worthwhile in them, even if you don't get the grandprize. AND A LOT of people don't get the grandprize.
Just like they knew enough to give us the only bit of information about this T6 ship business we've gotten so far:
That the Jem Bug WILL BE upgraded to T6 FOR FREE.
The upgrade question doesn't interfere with the sales of this current promotion for those trying to get the bug.
I don't begrudge anyone doing something to make a buck mind you, but to suddenly change it after people have spent money on it, claiming it wasn't intended to do what it's doing...after all this time, and after all the ships released built to accommodate this build, well that's just disingenuous.
And in so far as the "balance" issue, I think by now we all know that sales shoot balance right between the eyes in terms of priority every time. Balance is a pesky after thought.
My whole concern in all of this, is the lock box/lobi ships. I think they all should get the free bump up to T6, just like the Bug. (even though the bug, is not a lockbox ship) It just takes so much more to get em than the average T5 ship.
In so far as the rest of the T5 ships, I just hope the upgrade isn't some level 15 crafting type grind, with a twenty dollar per ship zen upgrade available in the C store, plus a dilithium tax, for those who can't stomach another hellacious grind. I said I'm hoping, but I've got that knot in my stomach again......
I'm really hoping that these T6 ships will be like the Science Destroyer ships personally.
They do something other ships don't, but that's not enough to stop you from wanting to use our other ships.
Maybe because they are looking for feedback on the forums before making any final decisions on building everything.
Of course it's kinda hard when most posts about T6 ships are "Cryptic is gonna TRIBBLE us over!" and "My ship will be useless and they gonna force me to buy a new T6".
They have said multiple times not to worry about our T5 ships and they will take care of us. We don't need 50 friggin' threads on the forums ******** about it when we have almost no information yet.
i just dont trust these people any longer . over 2 years ago i paid money for more costume slots on my toons it worked for a couple months, then broken , no fix no comp ,no word on why, no word on when just nothing except auto response form letters from multiple submitted trouble tickets.
i only play as a Klingon but in reguards to this company i feel the way Kirk did when talking about the Klingons after they killed his son.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
That's weird. I've seen hundreds of posts on those exact topics.
Fleet ships EXIST because of those old topics. Because people didn't want to abandon their Nova. Or their Sovereign. Or their whatever.
I know you read those posts.
People want to fly their favorite ship. In a Star Trek game. It's not that shocking. They never wanted to abandon their favorite ship.
T5 Miranda threads ring any bells?
T5 NX threads?
How many times have they started a thread asking for a system to allow one's ship to ... get this ... Level With The Player.
Do we frequent the same forums? This has been an issue since launch day.
Yes. People want to play their favorite ship at endgame. That may be a canon ship,a cryptic design, a kitbash, but they definitely want their favorite ship at endgame.
So, to be hones t,I can't believe that Cryptic would be so boneheaded and create a new tier of ships that become the new endgame and if you're not flying one of the new ones, you are out of luck. It would be totally devestating to the game, and I would be very suprised if they didn't realize that themselves.
I can't believe the same team that gave us fleet Tier 5 versions of most lower tier ships would suddenly decide that these ships will no longer be competitive at Tier 6.
The real question is not "will my ship be obsolete?". If it is, STO might be rightfully called "dead or dying" since that will alienate so many players. The question is: "What will it cost me to keep my precious ship a viable endgame vessel?"
The worst scenario that could happen is that upgrading your ship to Tier 6 costs a boatload of Dilithium and time and people are pissed off it's that long. And that the devs fail at balancing again and whatever new toys the new ships have but the old upgraded ships won't are so powerful and useful that you feel like a second class citizen without them.
But that would actually be something that seems fixable. Nerfs, Buffs, that can always be done.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The pretention in this forum is so thick you could split it with the soapbox everyone is hiding behind.
I hope the release plenty of new ships, and I hope each one has abilities you can't get elsewhere. I hope they draw a distinct line between Tier 5 and Tier 6, however narrow they choose to make the gap between them. When they do, I will find the one I like best and - one way or another - buy it.
Because I don't waste my time searching for things to hate about the game. I look for things to like about it. And it doesn't tax me to find things. The space combat is probably the thing I like most about it. The ships look great, and I even crank the graphics up just to see a truly pretty explosion (even if it is at around 6 frames per second) or just cruise around Earth Orbit admiring my ship.
The project management system is pretty well organized. I play games like Sim City and Kerbal Space Program, and there are often a lot of menus to sift through. Games like the Final Fantasy franchise and World of You-know-who-craft also have a lot of menus. STO does have a lot of menus, but most are grouped fairly logically to accommodate the need for the extra paperdolls, skill training, and endgame progress tracking. This is also the first MMO that I've seen that has a way to look up fleets that are seeking new members.
There's also a high degree of privacy available for an MMO. Usually they force that social aspect down your throat as if the whole idea of getting the game was to meet new people. Uh... no. The whole idea was to play the game. And frankly, most other people are either going to rush me or get in my way and slow me down. Let's face it; most of us march to our own tune. Go to any STF and you'll see what I mean.
So being able to disable auto-teaming, refuse to receive messages from anyone, autorefuse fleet invitations, and more, all lend to a player's wish to just play the game in peace. Sometimes, I sit down and play a video game because I just finished being in a social setting and I'm done with that for now. *MOM*.
And am I the only one that actually likes the R&D system? I don't have to go out of the way to find materials. They show up in reasonable amounts just by doing stuff. Y'know, stuff that isn't "dancing in Drozana" or "on the forums complaining about the R&D system". I don't have to make a regular trip to Memory Alpha (which is the most illogical place for a military arms research complex, considering the place was a LIBRARY! He-llooo!) to indulge in my need to craft things relentlessly. I find the new R&D system to be a relieving change, worth starting over and worth farming through story missions for new materials - and even worth the potentially long hike to that Aegis set! I never had the materials to make the Aegis set before. I'm not even at a level high enough to make one but I am already fairly close through the benefit of the queued reward packs!
So I interrupt this thread of gloominess and thundering clouds with a few hopeful words from an actual fan of the game - not simply the game's name.
They have said multiple times not to worry about our T5 ships and they will take care of us. We don't need 50 friggin' threads on the forums ******** about it when we have almost no information yet.
They also said multiple times that there wouldn't even be a T6. They said there would be no f2p, until it was leaked f2p was coming. I remember a time when a dev told us that the T3 Excelsior account unlock would be given to those that already owned the T5 during the f2p development. I remember dev blogs touting a 'Galaxy reboot', and then they made no changes to the Gal-R. I remember when a T5 Connie was on the to do list for one single month, then it vanished and became CBS said no. I remember before the game launched, we were told that the KDF was going to be a fully realized PVE side, until the game launched with them as basically PVP only and they never told us that. I remember numerous times over the years we were told that KDF was getting love, even one time Dan told us the whole team was hard and work on it, until they weren't. I remember when they told us that ships would always stay as account unlocks, and then fleet ships happened.
I could go on and on and on about stuff we've been told that turned out to not be true. I just have no faith in what Cryptic devs say they will do, until its actually done.
The Romulans and Klingons could use a couple more ships each to round out their options and bring them in line with the number of Fed ships available. Maybe some updates on older ships are needed, but in general, T6 ships are completely unnecessary and from what I've read since the announcement, unwanted.
Like the title says, Ships are not a game. What I mean by that is that what this game is sorely lacking is new content. We're going to have T6 ships, but what will be doing that will need T6 ships for the long term? Especially if everyone is still only running the same STFs they always do because of better rewards.
Cryptic is essentially shaming us and using cheap con psychology to get us to buy into the whole idea. "Your ship will not be obsolete, but you'll really want to buy these new ships with awesome powers that your old ships won't have and can't get". Not an exact quote, but that's my interpretation of it.
There are people that want to do well in space combat, there are people that want to fly their iconic Trek ships, there are people who have devoted hundreds of hours and or dollars into their current favorite ships, so why should we have to choose one or the other?
This MMO is not like others. Ships are not just our mounts we use to get around on. For some, they are the "Character" more so than the little humanoid we create when we started playing. Because of the unique dynamic here, I don't think that the business model based on a never ending stream of new ships, each one more powerful than the last, is sustainable. Even for casual players.
Think about what brings people to STO? Trek. They sure as hell don't come here for the cutting edge gameplay, amazing graphics, exceptional story telling, excellent voice acting etc.
If I want those things, I go play SWTOR. But I digress. I'm not going to speculate about what the T6 ships will have or not have or anything related. My disagreement is with the fundamental direction the game has been going in since LoR.
I do indeed think this expansion will be the make or break moment for STO and I don't think it will be good. If PWE does not see a rerturn on their investment like they did with LoR there most likely will not be another one. I completely disagree that this game needed a level cap raise as well. So at this point, Delta Rising means nothing to me. I'm not interested in T6 ships, or anything Voyager related.
This is not a thread to debate the meaning of words like "competitive" and other nonsense that gets repeated here ad nauseum. This thread is solely meant to tell Cryptic that I don't want T6 ships or a level cap raise. I will vote with my time and my wallet and I recommend you do the same. What I've seen over and over is that people are well addicted to this game and will complain then go on and buy whats offered and play what's offered and rationalize it later. Please don't do that.
I don't think Cryptic will not change anything they do until they have no other choice. That's what it's like dealing with arrogance (Geko).
tl;dr, "i dont agree with x2 and i wont bother with it".
then please dont go anywhere near it, but that doesnt mean you should write up a wall of death text about what you like and dont like without knowing what the details are before hand and expect anyone to bite into what they dont know themselves either.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Comments
IMO you are 100% correct. This is exactly how STO has been since F2P. They have consistently "moved the goal posts" on every part of the game. They devalue, nerf or completely remove things under the guise of "power creep". Yet everything they (re)introduce using monetized methods ADDS to power creep, unnecessarily.
Tired of it all really. I wish someone with a Wells Class ship could transport me to another timeline. One where STO still released a New Featured Episode each Saturday and never went F2P. That my friend would be awesome...
You're not being realistic if you think aux to bat doesn't need to get nerfed in some way. When it was originally put in, Cryptic didn't intend for it to be spammed so hard with faw and to such a degree that all or most boff powers reached global in no time. How is that balanced?
I think I'm being very realistic about what will happen on the forums IF they do such a thing. My opinion on the build itself isn't really relevant since I don't have the ship. I was just stating, captain obvious style at that: If they marginalize the Excelsior by adding T6 and then on top of it nerf the most popular build for the Excelsior ... there might be some forum backlash.
That's all I was saying. Peeps might be upset and post their upset-ness.
For one many people don't spend hard earned $ for those lower levels. Instead they spend it on higher level ships. Or some cases spent hours, days, weeks, etc on grinding them out. Just to purchase them. Some are like me that takes each purchase with a lot of thought. To make sure it was a good investment for gaming time. I just don't buy to be buying. Each one serves a purpose on how I play. Then you have the ones who spent hours to figure out the best build for them. Even myself is thinking on how to outfit some of my ships as they keep coming out with new stuff.
Then you have the Fleet ones. They spent the most to get that ship. Cash, grinding, helping the fleet, etc. That is a ton of investment just to get that ship.
This is different than like WoW. Where you play and earn your gear. Here you spend $ for it or someone did. So this case its kinda harder to let the gear go. Even in WoW they was fussing about loosing their hard earned gear each expansion. So to fix this, they developed the Transmorg system. You can turn your current new gear into what ever gear you see fit. As long it wasn't vendor trash (white/grey) items. I heard since then I played they changed it up even more. Since so many praised it. Even myself was using and loving it.
This is not as easy as you think. Even my self will have to see how this "upgrade" they offering will effect. I may get 1 ship per my main 3 to upgrade, none at all, or all of them. It really depends.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My bad. I misinterpreted what you said and I agree with you. That being said, why didn't Cryptic Nerf aux to bat when 9.5 was released? They could have avoided x2 being poorly received by angering the aux to bat crowd in July instead of October. Heck, if Cryptic wants to Nerf our ships and Nerf aux to bat at the same time, then they need to buy a lot of flame shields in preparation for that. Yeah, good luck with that...
I thought it was measure once, cut twice. Then get a new piece because you screwed that one up. Do it again then adjust your design to fit the mis-cut pieces you already have.
to the OP, I feel that being realistic and using past experience to inform myself about the future unknown that it is the proper decision to not support this game any further. (even if it is Star Trek)
Feedback on what?
All we have are the pictures of three ships, and some background information from Voyager.
On the plus side, Redshirt's been activated again, so we should start seeing X2 stuff on tribble, but they've said that the first few rounds of changes on tribble will be code related. We won't see any new content for a while.
Lower level ships are either free or low cost novelties acquired for the skin or the console that can be used on later ships. Even the level 40-49 ships are free, but the VA T5 and Fleet T5 ships are real commodities that either are paid out of pocket or grinded for an bought with Dil (which can be traded for cash value Zen) These end game ship will lose their meaning and the cost entailed in acquiring and fitting with high end gear. The changes will be accepted, but the impact on players should be considered carefully... don't ignore the investment of money and time made by the players.
Cause if it's not exactly how they say it's going to be, people will give them hell to no end over it anyway. So it's ether "Get it right, make them complain about waiting" or "Post early, make a mistake or a change and make them complain about us not doing what we'd say we'd do"
Some of you couldn't even discuss the weather with a dev without going off on a high holy rant...
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I know...it almost seems like we've invested a lot of time and money into this game and our concern about the final product has something to do with that investment. Gosh, wow!!! Who would have thought?!
I for one, plan on testing this system out on the Tribble server once it hits there. Everyone should do the same and give honest feedback (meaning if you don't like the system tell them why, don't just devolve into a fit of RAGE!!!!!!).
I know asking for people not to rage is like asking for the Raiders to not suck, but I try anyway.
Your use of the word soon brings back bad memories of the old EP's use of the word soon when talking about upcoming content. *Soon*
you think YOU invested "Time and Money"? Have you spent hours slaving in front of a computer trying to keep a bunch of whiners happy over trivial matters?
I've been on the receiving end of unhappy customers, heck I had it worse because they were all in the same room as me, so I have a fair deal of sympathy for Cryptic.
You are not an investor. You are a customer.
Investors expect a financial return from what they put in to the company. You do not expect to make money off these ships, off Delta Rising or off this game in general. You expect a product in return. People who spend money to get a product or service are customers. An Investor can be a custom of they wish to make use of the product or service into which they invested, but being a customer does not automatically make you an investor.
You can become an investor by calling your broker and asking to buy Perfect World shares, it's on the NASDAQ for about $20 a share.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Okay, here's some honest feedback.
Maybe if our honest feedback and bug reports actually resulted in an improved build sent to holodeck, I would be more interested in testing on Tribble.
The game-breaking (no, really. It crashed the client!) bug with the tailor for Season 9.5 made its way onto Holodeck despite being reported and verified on Tribble.
I don't care about Tribble testing rewards. I care about a better build sent to holodeck on launch day so everyone can enjoy it with fewer bugs than they may have had before.
But, Cryptic's only interest is sending it to holodeck ASAP come hell or high water. So, yeah. No thank you.
And since bugs that are known to crash the client apparently pass the litmus test (and I can point to any number of other examples of known quality-of-life bugs on Tribble that made their way onto Holodeck), what's the point in testing?
If Cryptic's end result is Holodeck, then my end result is Holodeck. If Cryptic can convince me testing on Tribble actually results in a better build on Holodeck, I will consider testing again.
They mentioned that they will be releasing the last of the canon ships in this coming update. That's a direct response to so many players wanting more canon ships. And of course they're releasing g them as a higher tier, and with a new level cap and new abilities. As a company, they need to make a profit to stay in business. There will never be a happy median between us and them but at least they aren't just sitting back and letting the money roll in without working on other issues and expanding the game (companies like Dice and Bathedlsda should take notes). Almost every update or maintenance I see invol s fixing certain issues within the game.
And about new content. A new set of species to encounter, a new area of space, and new missions to play. That sounds like content to me. Tell me, what do you define as content, and what exactly would you like to see added? Because I haven't seen a single suggestion from the players that whine about it.
Players, play how you want, spend as you see fit (or don't), and stop listening to disgruntles players like the op.
Heh, c'mon - we don't report bugs and stuff on Tribble so that it will be fixed before it goes to Holodeck...we do it so it will be fixed within a year or two of hitting Holodeck rather than 2-3 years after it hits Holodeck.
To be fair, the example I used was fixed overnight as soon as it hit Holodeck. Many other game-breaking bugs that make the transition from Tribble to Holodeck also similarly get fixed rather quickly.
Which is kind of the point I'm trying to impress upon the devs. If it was that easy to fix overnight, what stopped that particular game-breaking bug from getting fixed before the build hit Holodeck to begin with?
What could have possibly been so important and vital that Season 9.5 could not have been delayed for a single day despite the fact there was a known and verified bug that crashed the entire client whenever someone accessed the tailor (something many players do every day)?
In theory, I'm all about testing and verifying bugs and making the game better via bug report tickets.
In practice, not so much. If people want to test, they can go right ahead. If they get the feeling they're doing good work by being productive testers, then who am I deny to the power of a placebo effect?
But it's just that. A placebo effect. I'm not convinced testing actually does anything tangible in terms of quality once something hits holodeck.
Pretty sure when you do a job, you get paid. Also pretty sure the customers are the ones whom are indirectly paying you. Sometimes when you are doing a job that involves customers you get to deal with unhappy ones.
I've done retail. I've personally dealt with the ones who make irrational demands or who have irrational expectations and while they tend to be loud they are also thankfully the exception. They also make for amusing stories latter on and are generally forgettable.
I've also personally dealt with unhappy customers who either I, my employees, or the company I worked for was responsible for them being unhappy. In those situations I would bend over backwards to fix the problem and the times when the problem could not be fixed were truly frustrating to no end and typically due to stupid 'policies'. They are also the reason I hope I never work in retail with a corporate overlord again.
The old line of 'the customer is always right' might be outdated and a good way to be taken advantage of. But at the same time the customer is the most important element of any business's success.
The entire testing and feedback system is broken. And while they tend to overhaul the in game systems frequently they do nothing to change the actual testing > feedback > improvement system aside from blaming it on the community being unable to offer enough 'constructive criticism'.
Their is never enough time allotted for any feedback to be incorporated before it hits holodeck. Their are no standards enforced on feedback given, no aggressive moderation of the feedback, nor any assurance it is getting to the developers. And that is just the tip of the ole iceberg.
Oh, I think they knew, ship after ship is released that seemed specifically built for aux2bat.
They sold the aux to bat doffs in lock boxes didn't they ?
Yeah, they knew alright. Their intent was to sell lockbox keys, you gotta put something worthwhile in them, even if you don't get the grandprize. AND A LOT of people don't get the grandprize.
Just like they knew enough to give us the only bit of information about this T6 ship business we've gotten so far:
That the Jem Bug WILL BE upgraded to T6 FOR FREE.
The upgrade question doesn't interfere with the sales of this current promotion for those trying to get the bug.
I don't begrudge anyone doing something to make a buck mind you, but to suddenly change it after people have spent money on it, claiming it wasn't intended to do what it's doing...after all this time, and after all the ships released built to accommodate this build, well that's just disingenuous.
And in so far as the "balance" issue, I think by now we all know that sales shoot balance right between the eyes in terms of priority every time. Balance is a pesky after thought.
My whole concern in all of this, is the lock box/lobi ships. I think they all should get the free bump up to T6, just like the Bug. (even though the bug, is not a lockbox ship) It just takes so much more to get em than the average T5 ship.
In so far as the rest of the T5 ships, I just hope the upgrade isn't some level 15 crafting type grind, with a twenty dollar per ship zen upgrade available in the C store, plus a dilithium tax, for those who can't stomach another hellacious grind. I said I'm hoping, but I've got that knot in my stomach again......
I'm really hoping that these T6 ships will be like the Science Destroyer ships personally.
They do something other ships don't, but that's not enough to stop you from wanting to use our other ships.
i just dont trust these people any longer . over 2 years ago i paid money for more costume slots on my toons it worked for a couple months, then broken , no fix no comp ,no word on why, no word on when just nothing except auto response form letters from multiple submitted trouble tickets.
i only play as a Klingon but in reguards to this company i feel the way Kirk did when talking about the Klingons after they killed his son.
So, to be hones t,I can't believe that Cryptic would be so boneheaded and create a new tier of ships that become the new endgame and if you're not flying one of the new ones, you are out of luck. It would be totally devestating to the game, and I would be very suprised if they didn't realize that themselves.
I can't believe the same team that gave us fleet Tier 5 versions of most lower tier ships would suddenly decide that these ships will no longer be competitive at Tier 6.
The real question is not "will my ship be obsolete?". If it is, STO might be rightfully called "dead or dying" since that will alienate so many players. The question is: "What will it cost me to keep my precious ship a viable endgame vessel?"
The worst scenario that could happen is that upgrading your ship to Tier 6 costs a boatload of Dilithium and time and people are pissed off it's that long. And that the devs fail at balancing again and whatever new toys the new ships have but the old upgraded ships won't are so powerful and useful that you feel like a second class citizen without them.
But that would actually be something that seems fixable. Nerfs, Buffs, that can always be done.
I hope the release plenty of new ships, and I hope each one has abilities you can't get elsewhere. I hope they draw a distinct line between Tier 5 and Tier 6, however narrow they choose to make the gap between them. When they do, I will find the one I like best and - one way or another - buy it.
Because I don't waste my time searching for things to hate about the game. I look for things to like about it. And it doesn't tax me to find things. The space combat is probably the thing I like most about it. The ships look great, and I even crank the graphics up just to see a truly pretty explosion (even if it is at around 6 frames per second) or just cruise around Earth Orbit admiring my ship.
The project management system is pretty well organized. I play games like Sim City and Kerbal Space Program, and there are often a lot of menus to sift through. Games like the Final Fantasy franchise and World of You-know-who-craft also have a lot of menus. STO does have a lot of menus, but most are grouped fairly logically to accommodate the need for the extra paperdolls, skill training, and endgame progress tracking. This is also the first MMO that I've seen that has a way to look up fleets that are seeking new members.
There's also a high degree of privacy available for an MMO. Usually they force that social aspect down your throat as if the whole idea of getting the game was to meet new people. Uh... no. The whole idea was to play the game. And frankly, most other people are either going to rush me or get in my way and slow me down. Let's face it; most of us march to our own tune. Go to any STF and you'll see what I mean.
So being able to disable auto-teaming, refuse to receive messages from anyone, autorefuse fleet invitations, and more, all lend to a player's wish to just play the game in peace. Sometimes, I sit down and play a video game because I just finished being in a social setting and I'm done with that for now. *MOM*.
And am I the only one that actually likes the R&D system? I don't have to go out of the way to find materials. They show up in reasonable amounts just by doing stuff. Y'know, stuff that isn't "dancing in Drozana" or "on the forums complaining about the R&D system". I don't have to make a regular trip to Memory Alpha (which is the most illogical place for a military arms research complex, considering the place was a LIBRARY! He-llooo!) to indulge in my need to craft things relentlessly. I find the new R&D system to be a relieving change, worth starting over and worth farming through story missions for new materials - and even worth the potentially long hike to that Aegis set! I never had the materials to make the Aegis set before. I'm not even at a level high enough to make one but I am already fairly close through the benefit of the queued reward packs!
So I interrupt this thread of gloominess and thundering clouds with a few hopeful words from an actual fan of the game - not simply the game's name.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Puts on Bane mask " now is not the time for fear doctor that comes later"
They also said multiple times that there wouldn't even be a T6. They said there would be no f2p, until it was leaked f2p was coming. I remember a time when a dev told us that the T3 Excelsior account unlock would be given to those that already owned the T5 during the f2p development. I remember dev blogs touting a 'Galaxy reboot', and then they made no changes to the Gal-R. I remember when a T5 Connie was on the to do list for one single month, then it vanished and became CBS said no. I remember before the game launched, we were told that the KDF was going to be a fully realized PVE side, until the game launched with them as basically PVP only and they never told us that. I remember numerous times over the years we were told that KDF was getting love, even one time Dan told us the whole team was hard and work on it, until they weren't. I remember when they told us that ships would always stay as account unlocks, and then fleet ships happened.
I could go on and on and on about stuff we've been told that turned out to not be true. I just have no faith in what Cryptic devs say they will do, until its actually done.
tl;dr, "i dont agree with x2 and i wont bother with it".
then please dont go anywhere near it, but that doesnt mean you should write up a wall of death text about what you like and dont like without knowing what the details are before hand and expect anyone to bite into what they dont know themselves either.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.