Scims being demi-Qs is canon, so it's actually nice that they are what they are supposed to be, and not arbitrarily limited for so-called 'balance' reasons, which I think kills immersion and fun by killing diversity, as real life is fun because it's diverse because it's unfair.
So you like diversity even OP deeps, but you dont like Vesta because its not like beam cruisers and cant put out the same OP deeps
I am very fond of my Vesta class; she does Science and she does it well.
Very. Over a month ago, I assigned one of my FED ENG toon to a Vesta-class. It was a great match between his ENG skills and the SCI BOffs. The Vesta does indeed do Science quite well; I enjoy equipping the consoles from the Vesta, Rademaker and Aventine variants, too.
But regardless, I still prefer my little Fleet Rhode Island. Granted, she doesn't have a fancy three-set of consoles, and the Vesta can do what she does, and do it marginally better, but she isn't THAT far behind.
She is - and always will be - an absolute BLAST to fly and I doubt that there will ever be a ship in STO that I enjoy as much. I don't care if she isn't a DPS monster - she is pure, undiluted, enjoyment.
That is a galactic understatement, reyan01. I share your enjoyment of that ship. (In my case, I fly the mirror version, not the fleet version. And as an owner of the Rhode Island-class ship, I use that design for my ship.) Call me one of the Crazy Nova Captains. One of my FED SCI toons has captained this vessel for many months. It's one of the unique instances where I don't want to change the ship assignment. I always have fun playing with that ship!
(...) And in PvE, I generally don't need to bring anything more than my Vesta. A Nebula, with it's cruiser-like turn rate, would tend to feel very unsatisfying to me. Doesn't fit my normal playstyle. I'd only fly one if I want to shake things up.
Amen to that. Here's to hoping the Nebula-class gets some extra Dev love in the near future. It's a fun ship with potential -- but the turn rate screams "meh.." (and resigns it to the shipyards, except for occasional play).
It can use aux cannons so you can throw all your power to aux to empower said science abilities and run high damage numbers with the aux cannons.
Ya'know... What's really sad is I run my Vesta with minimum Aux power! DOffs, skills, and equipment keep my base setting of 15 at an equivalent of around 75 with the engineering EPS power boosting to cap when needed. But you have to face it - DPS is still king in this game and compared to weapons the science abilities with their cooldowns just can't compare. I use the abilities just for support and fun.
Sorry man you're comparing apples to oranges if you're comparing an Excelsior to a Vesta. One does one job, the other does another.
Put it to you this way. Excelsior is HORRIBLE for crowd control. All it can really do is take a pounding while spamming FAW and A2B. Vesta can do SO much more. It can control crowds with high level gravity wells so escorts can go around in killing sprees. It can use aux cannons so you can throw all your power to aux to empower said science abilities and run high damage numbers with the aux cannons.
Granted you won't necessarily win any damage contests, but you'll pull your fair share.
Sorry your analysis is flawed from the outset.
Nope. Your analysis is perfectly correct in that context, but my context is that apples and oranges must be compared when the main thing to do is bake apple pies. Especially when soloing & PvE (but also in the explicit PvP statistics post-match), STO itself, by design, makes deeps the preeminent concern, and the only publicly available numerical measure of glory. A team consisting only of deepers can consistently outperform any other combination both in speed and in damage done in most PvEs, leaving players thirsting for immersion wondering why Starfleet ought employ any other type of vessel.
Fleets have to go out of their way to arrange PvP teams to enjoy matches that properly utilize the classes as they are. This is good, but there should be much more cooperative and single-player content that requires class diversity by design. I bet we'll see stuff like this in upcoming seasons. It's a natural development.
So you like diversity even OP deeps, but you dont like Vesta because its not like beam cruisers and cant put out the same OP deeps
Nope. Scims have something to do because STO is a deeps race. Vestas have less to do for the same reason. Diversity is good, but unsatisfying when diverse classes lack equal opportunity. Literally all that needs to be done is to figure every skill and power into a centralized, equalized scoring system, so, for example, healers can top lists as support, and be the bona fide protagonists of peaceful medical or clever scientific missions (some fast-paced, edge-of-your-seat survey, repair, or navigational mission with no necessary violence, or whatever). There are infinite ways to not utterly marginalize the 2 (of 3) non-pew pew boom boom classes.
Its a great ship. I think its the only ship in the game that lets you have a A2B build with Commander Sci skills and a Lt and ensign tac. With that build you can do amazing things in PVP and PVE. Not to many A2B builds can Have FBP3 for pvp. On top of the vestas amazing shield stats. Just remember to bring some batteries alone.
Sorry man you're comparing apples to oranges if you're comparing an Excelsior to a Vesta. One does one job, the other does another.
Put it to you this way. Excelsior is HORRIBLE for crowd control. All it can really do is take a pounding while spamming FAW and A2B. Vesta can do SO much more. It can control crowds with high level gravity wells so escorts can go around in killing sprees. It can use aux cannons so you can throw all your power to aux to empower said science abilities and run high damage numbers with the aux cannons.
Granted you won't necessarily win any damage contests, but you'll pull your fair share.
Sorry your analysis is flawed from the outset.
All I can say about your opinion involving the Vesta to the Excelsior is UH, NO
Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
Vesta is a great ship, you can make the argument that it is one of the top 3 or 5 top ships in the federation arsenal. Great crowd control or healer, it will dish out good damage, but its all about your bridge officers/doff assignments and gear. I'm curious to see if the aux cannons will scale up with the release of DR, as well as how the ship can be upgraded for a t6 type ship.
Aux cannons with the various energy types will be nice... if they offer it in the rep system.
Before settling on my final build, I tried out these power level settings doing this on my tac Vesta:
W: 100
S: 35
E: 50
A: 15
I actually got 82 on Aux power with having Efficient BOFFs, my captain traits & skills points, the Zero Point Energy console, and the other gear I ended up using.
I find the Vesta to be excellent even as a dps ship, despite the fact it's only a sci ship. With Aux cannons you can have max aux power to allow full power sci abilities and the aux cannons themselves can put out a lot of damage. Fly it with a tac toon, add on 3 spire tac consoles and you'll easily be able to match dps with most other cruisers and some escorts (especially with some crafty use of space sets - counter command weapons 2pc & nukara 2pc).
I find that the ship is tough enough to take a hell of a pounding as its shield mod is high. The hull is pretty pathetic but you have enough sci powers to slot a fair amount of heals to keep you alive. Plus its a fast moving ship so it can escape and evade most enemies you'll encounter in PVE.
I find it can be run as any type of ship you want: fast moving escort/sci hybrid, drain ship, healer, crowd control, FAW, torp boat etc.
The key to using it well is really knowing how to use its equipment and also when to run and heal/hide. It can seem fragile at first but knowing when to cut and run to heal ready for another attack can really improve your chances.
The hanger is nice but a bit of a gimmick i find, at least until they sort out hanger pet AI. It supplements your dps but i find often I don't need it and in some fights it is just a waste of time (i'm looking at you Voth & Tholians).
I find the Vesta to be excellent even as a dps ship, despite the fact it's only a sci ship. With Aux cannons you can have max aux power to allow full power sci abilities and the aux cannons themselves can put out a lot of damage. Fly it with a tac toon, add on 3 spire tac consoles and you'll easily be able to match dps with most other cruisers and some escorts (especially with some crafty use of space sets - counter command weapons 2pc & nukara 2pc).
I find that the ship is tough enough to take a hell of a pounding as its shield mod is high. The hull is pretty pathetic but you have enough sci powers to slot a fair amount of heals to keep you alive. Plus its a fast moving ship so it can escape and evade most enemies you'll encounter in PVE.
I find it can be run as any type of ship you want: fast moving escort/sci hybrid, drain ship, healer, crowd control, FAW, torp boat etc.
The key to using it well is really knowing how to use its equipment and also when to run and heal/hide. It can seem fragile at first but knowing when to cut and run to heal ready for another attack can really improve your chances.
The hanger is nice but a bit of a gimmick i find, at least until they sort out hanger pet AI. It supplements your dps but i find often I don't need it and in some fights it is just a waste of time (i'm looking at you Voth & Tholians).
I run Elite Swarmers on mine and deploy them against stationary targets like Gates or when I hit GW3 and fire the swarmers and Torp Spread.
Comments
So you like diversity even OP deeps, but you dont like Vesta because its not like beam cruisers and cant put out the same OP deeps
That is a galactic understatement, reyan01.
Amen to that. Here's to hoping the Nebula-class gets some extra Dev love in the near future. It's a fun ship with potential -- but the turn rate screams "meh.." (and resigns it to the shipyards, except for occasional play).
YES.
Ya'know... What's really sad is I run my Vesta with minimum Aux power! DOffs, skills, and equipment keep my base setting of 15 at an equivalent of around 75 with the engineering EPS power boosting to cap when needed. But you have to face it - DPS is still king in this game and compared to weapons the science abilities with their cooldowns just can't compare. I use the abilities just for support and fun.
Nope. Your analysis is perfectly correct in that context, but my context is that apples and oranges must be compared when the main thing to do is bake apple pies. Especially when soloing & PvE (but also in the explicit PvP statistics post-match), STO itself, by design, makes deeps the preeminent concern, and the only publicly available numerical measure of glory. A team consisting only of deepers can consistently outperform any other combination both in speed and in damage done in most PvEs, leaving players thirsting for immersion wondering why Starfleet ought employ any other type of vessel.
Fleets have to go out of their way to arrange PvP teams to enjoy matches that properly utilize the classes as they are. This is good, but there should be much more cooperative and single-player content that requires class diversity by design. I bet we'll see stuff like this in upcoming seasons. It's a natural development.
Nope. Scims have something to do because STO is a deeps race. Vestas have less to do for the same reason. Diversity is good, but unsatisfying when diverse classes lack equal opportunity. Literally all that needs to be done is to figure every skill and power into a centralized, equalized scoring system, so, for example, healers can top lists as support, and be the bona fide protagonists of peaceful medical or clever scientific missions (some fast-paced, edge-of-your-seat survey, repair, or navigational mission with no necessary violence, or whatever). There are infinite ways to not utterly marginalize the 2 (of 3) non-pew pew boom boom classes.
Since that crafting science trait came out they might want to rethink the "1 crit to rule them all" for science powers.
All I can say about your opinion involving the Vesta to the Excelsior is UH, NO
Before settling on my final build, I tried out these power level settings doing this on my tac Vesta:
W: 100
S: 35
E: 50
A: 15
I actually got 82 on Aux power with having Efficient BOFFs, my captain traits & skills points, the Zero Point Energy console, and the other gear I ended up using.
I find that the ship is tough enough to take a hell of a pounding as its shield mod is high. The hull is pretty pathetic but you have enough sci powers to slot a fair amount of heals to keep you alive. Plus its a fast moving ship so it can escape and evade most enemies you'll encounter in PVE.
I find it can be run as any type of ship you want: fast moving escort/sci hybrid, drain ship, healer, crowd control, FAW, torp boat etc.
The key to using it well is really knowing how to use its equipment and also when to run and heal/hide. It can seem fragile at first but knowing when to cut and run to heal ready for another attack can really improve your chances.
The hanger is nice but a bit of a gimmick i find, at least until they sort out hanger pet AI. It supplements your dps but i find often I don't need it and in some fights it is just a waste of time (i'm looking at you Voth & Tholians).
I run Elite Swarmers on mine and deploy them against stationary targets like Gates or when I hit GW3 and fire the swarmers and Torp Spread.