This could be a perfect opportunity to make the Borg a tough opponent again. Especially considering that we're entering their home turf. Don't do away with all of your T5 ships so quickly. You may want to keep one or two o them at the lower class just to make Borg encounters...Borg encounters.
Until they fix the science space skills to actually be more on the power level of the voyager series skills I'd say they need to leave the borg alone. Oh and they need to do this with the science skills without releasing new universal consoles or box only traits/doffs which has only been a bandaid thus far.
Non-issue - earlier Borg just didn't get enough time to assimilate Undine, they would have done it were it not for circumstances, just like the Undine assimilated Borg were stopped in STO.
(yes, I know a segregated Collective doesn't make any sense,
Actually it does make sense seeing as the Borg Queen implies that the pathogen was TRIBBLE with her connection to the rest of the collective. i.e. pointing out that the sphere she sent after Voyager could still hear her (which kind of means that at least a decent enough chunk of the collective couldn't to warrant one ship still hearing her being worth mentioning)
Which is consistent with the fact that when something infects a Borg ship be it a tailor made virus, what ever made Seven of Nine go nuts, or individuality the Borg cut the infected ship off from the collective like a gangrenous limb.
Which is consistent with the fact that when something infects a Borg ship be it a tailor made virus, what ever made Seven of Nine go nuts, or individuality the Borg cut the infected ship off from the collective like a gangrenous limb.
Also true. The infected part gets cut off, and with it knowledge of Ablative Armour. (but Transphasic torpedo defences already got through)
.
The Queen herself doesn't matter much, she is an abstract concept, not a ruler.
Forget those. As I said, the theoretical Wolf-359 simulation could be set up as an ACTUAL no-win scenario.
Not like the NWS we have at the moment; an ACTUAL no win scenario simulation. It would be more a case of 'see how much damage you can cause' before the Borg do EXACTLY what they did at Wolf 359 and pull some DEM move that wipes everyone out.
I thought the problem at Wolf 359 is the fleet went after 'a ship', while the admiral proudly proclaimed that Jean Luc Picard would not break and reveal secrets. Thus the enemy would not know that their weakness was discovered and would be handily dealt with.
IE the biggest slaughter of Wolf 359 was due to pride and ignorance as much as the power of the borg. Only those on the Enterprise thought how much of a threat one adapted cube would be against the defenders.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Wolf 359. Catastrophic defeat, the worst in Federation history. Only Data and Picard saved the Alpha Quadrant by putting the Cube to sleep and it hitting self destruct.
Hang on a minute. Didn't the Borg do that much damage because they had assimilated Picard's knowledge of Federation tactics, defenses, and procedures in the first place?
It doesnt stand to reason, Borg Adaptation is something they always had as far we seen ... the Borg dont create because the Borg eliminate creative thought, at that point creation ceases to be possible, they can only use what they know.
This is why they could not deal with Species 8472 as Voyager did, they lack independent and creative thought.
I don't know about all of that. Going back in time to stop First Contact seemed pretty creative to me.
Hang on a minute. Didn't the Borg do that much damage because they had assimilated Picard's knowledge of Federation tactics, defenses, and procedures in the first place?
I figure most of it was because they were technologically vastly superior. Remember, the Enterprise did try damaging it, and failed, except in that narrow high frequency band. But despite the result, they determined they couldn't really harm the Borg vessel with their regular weapons set to that band - they had to do the deflector modification.
That failed then because Picard knew about it. (But that also meant that the Borg where imminently capable of fixing this weakness.) Whatever, considering the Enterprise seemed to be incapable of even really damaging the Borg vessel, it seems that the fleet couldn't really do all that much more damage. 40 times nothing is still nothing. 40 x 1 % is still not the 72 % (?) that they'd need to make the cube non-functional.*
I could imagine that we saw very little of Earth defences because Picard/Loutus could deactivate them (well, in truth, it was probably because they didn't have the money for more SFX shots).
*) If I remember correctly, STO's Wolf 359 graveyard also contains some Borg debris. Could mean that they subscribe to a 40 x 1 % theory more than a 40 x 0 %. Which could give us an estimate of our "firepower increase" since Wolf 359...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Hang on a minute. Didn't the Borg do that much damage because they had assimilated Picard's knowledge of Federation tactics, defenses, and procedures in the first place?
It helped them certainly, but look further back to "Q, who" - the Borg could ignore every attack a Galaxy could do.
Starfleet was completely unable to combat an enemy like the Borg.
It helped them certainly, but look further back to "Q, who" - the Borg could ignore every attack a Galaxy could do.
Starfleet was completely unable to combat an enemy like the Borg.
Interestingly - the Cube in the first encounter actually suffered visible damage from a few phaser shots. Much more than any other weapon use afterwards. And notably - only damage from phasers. Torpedoes had no visible impact.
One has to wonder why... It could just be a question of what the SFX budget still allowed them to do.
It could imply that the Borg first needed to adapt to phasers. Maybe they needed this encounter to learn about them. Or maybe the Borg shields are always set to "adapt" to explosions, and the set of weapons they can keep their shield fully adapted to is limited. They didn't know they would be hit by Phasers in the first encounter. In the second encounter, they knew and already switched to Phaser adaption.
That could be an interesting aspect to implement in STO. Give the Borg the ability to adapt to weapon fire - but only to one or two energy types at a time. Suddenly, rainbow builds could have a use!
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
That could be an interesting aspect to implement in STO. Give the Borg the ability to adapt to weapon fire - but only to one or two energy types at a time. Suddenly, rainbow builds could have a use!
If I remember right, certain races' ships do have innate DR /weakness to certain damage types. But it seems more an afterthought, or irrelevance given the damage output of any weapon, on any target.
I'd certainly prefer the Borg adaptation be buff/debuff based on the NPC target, which also makes subnukes much more useful against them. It's also better than needing a 'remodulate' button on the player side, like ground content.
Comments
Until they fix the science space skills to actually be more on the power level of the voyager series skills I'd say they need to leave the borg alone. Oh and they need to do this with the science skills without releasing new universal consoles or box only traits/doffs which has only been a bandaid thus far.
The Borg are just hard hitters right now.
The new ships will make these runs even more simple.
Actually it does make sense seeing as the Borg Queen implies that the pathogen was TRIBBLE with her connection to the rest of the collective. i.e. pointing out that the sphere she sent after Voyager could still hear her (which kind of means that at least a decent enough chunk of the collective couldn't to warrant one ship still hearing her being worth mentioning)
Which is consistent with the fact that when something infects a Borg ship be it a tailor made virus, what ever made Seven of Nine go nuts, or individuality the Borg cut the infected ship off from the collective like a gangrenous limb.
Also true. The infected part gets cut off, and with it knowledge of Ablative Armour. (but Transphasic torpedo defences already got through)
.
The Queen herself doesn't matter much, she is an abstract concept, not a ruler.
I thought the problem at Wolf 359 is the fleet went after 'a ship', while the admiral proudly proclaimed that Jean Luc Picard would not break and reveal secrets. Thus the enemy would not know that their weakness was discovered and would be handily dealt with.
IE the biggest slaughter of Wolf 359 was due to pride and ignorance as much as the power of the borg. Only those on the Enterprise thought how much of a threat one adapted cube would be against the defenders.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hang on a minute. Didn't the Borg do that much damage because they had assimilated Picard's knowledge of Federation tactics, defenses, and procedures in the first place?
I don't know about all of that. Going back in time to stop First Contact seemed pretty creative to me.
That failed then because Picard knew about it. (But that also meant that the Borg where imminently capable of fixing this weakness.) Whatever, considering the Enterprise seemed to be incapable of even really damaging the Borg vessel, it seems that the fleet couldn't really do all that much more damage. 40 times nothing is still nothing. 40 x 1 % is still not the 72 % (?) that they'd need to make the cube non-functional.*
I could imagine that we saw very little of Earth defences because Picard/Loutus could deactivate them (well, in truth, it was probably because they didn't have the money for more SFX shots).
*) If I remember correctly, STO's Wolf 359 graveyard also contains some Borg debris. Could mean that they subscribe to a 40 x 1 % theory more than a 40 x 0 %. Which could give us an estimate of our "firepower increase" since Wolf 359...
It helped them certainly, but look further back to "Q, who" - the Borg could ignore every attack a Galaxy could do.
Starfleet was completely unable to combat an enemy like the Borg.
Interestingly - the Cube in the first encounter actually suffered visible damage from a few phaser shots. Much more than any other weapon use afterwards. And notably - only damage from phasers. Torpedoes had no visible impact.
One has to wonder why... It could just be a question of what the SFX budget still allowed them to do.
It could imply that the Borg first needed to adapt to phasers. Maybe they needed this encounter to learn about them. Or maybe the Borg shields are always set to "adapt" to explosions, and the set of weapons they can keep their shield fully adapted to is limited. They didn't know they would be hit by Phasers in the first encounter. In the second encounter, they knew and already switched to Phaser adaption.
That could be an interesting aspect to implement in STO. Give the Borg the ability to adapt to weapon fire - but only to one or two energy types at a time. Suddenly, rainbow builds could have a use!
If I remember right, certain races' ships do have innate DR /weakness to certain damage types. But it seems more an afterthought, or irrelevance given the damage output of any weapon, on any target.
I'd certainly prefer the Borg adaptation be buff/debuff based on the NPC target, which also makes subnukes much more useful against them. It's also better than needing a 'remodulate' button on the player side, like ground content.
Hindsight! Picard is no killer, and he appeared to have the upper hand as the Cube ceased it's attack as well, to focus on regeneration & adaptation.