Fed engineer pure tank build help.

gameverseman

I have a lvl 12 fed engineer in the making and want to make him a pure tank. Here is my build:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=tiberiusmegatank_7030
Thanks for your time

jjdez

1. A pure tank wouldn't A2B
2. A2B(3) doesn't exist.

gameverseman

jjdez wrote: »

1. A pure tank wouldn't A2B
2. A2B(3) doesn't exist.

Than what WOULD it do?

jjdez

I'm still trying to understand what you actually want this ship to do? Zombie about keeping just yourself alive while FAWing away? Throw heals to teammates and try to keep everyone alive? PvE? PvP? Tac consoles on a pure tank? The list goes on. Tell us what this thing is supposed to do in more detail than "pure tank" and actual feedback may start to come in.

gameverseman

jjdez wrote: »

I'm still trying to understand what you actually want this ship to do? Zombie about keeping just yourself alive while FAWing away? Throw heals to teammates and try to keep everyone alive? PvE? PvP? Tac consoles on a pure tank? The list goes on. Tell us what this thing is supposed to do in more detail than "pure tank" and actual feedback may start to come in.

Isn't it obvious? Draw aggro and don't die. meanwhile everyone else can pick off and kill foes. This obviously does not apply to PvP so that should have never been considered. My aim is to make this particular character get through the no win unscathed. Providing the team with heals would be its secondary function. Its primary function is to be,well, a tank in terms of role. I have tac consoles in place to provide minimal damage support. Like I said, tanking is the focus. Like I said, I want to tank... so whether im in PvP or PvE or whatever I don't want to die by any means and from that will provide assistance to my team mates or what-have-you

dahminus

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tankergalttrait_0

2 tt conn doffs
2 ewo bfaw cd doffs
1 warp core cleanser doff
1 rsp extended cd doff

Cheers

gameverseman

dahminus wrote: »

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tankergalttrait_0

2 tt conn doffs
2 ewo bfaw cd doffs
1 warp core cleanser doff
1 rsp extended cd doff

Cheers

Can you walk me through the skill tree change?

cepholapoid

Your skill spec is missing out on threat generation, which no matter what you have for consoles is good to have for a hyper tank. Also having skills in maneuvers is helpful.

Trait wise you will want Nanoproge Field generator, great shield bonus.

Would definitely replace DEM III with aux2sif III, replace the EPtA with a engi team, replace the engi tema 2 with extend shields. Use EptS III and EPtE I with 2 purple dce doffs. Put DEM I in just so you have a tiny bit of bite.

Replace one of the neuts with the antimatter spread and put a embassy shield emmiter console with threat, hell might even want to try two of those instead of two field gens. For PVE you will want TSS over sci team.

You would never take a tank into NWS unless the team is carrying you through. No matter how many heals you have you can not keep everyone alive if they do not have enough dps to kill the waves fast. You would only be dragging the team down, and could not really fulfill any role well (can't float, or take any side on your own)

Just FYI recluse is better hypertank.

Edit: guess dahms works too, mine was more of a healer/tank I guess, and mine didn't have the wasted EPTX but his will probably be better for PVE, while mine might work out kinda nice for pvp if you ever try it.

gameverseman

cepholapoid wrote: »

Your skill spec is missing out on threat generation, which no matter what you have for consoles is good to have for a hyper tank. Also having skills in maneuvers is helpful.

Trait wise you will want Nanoproge Field generator, great shield bonus.

Would definitely replace DEM III with aux2sif III, replace the EPtA with a engi team, replace the engi tema 2 with extend shields. Use EptS III and EPtE I with 2 purple dce doffs. Put DEM I in just so you have a tiny bit of bite.

Replace one of the neuts with the antimatter spread and put a embassy shield emmiter console with threat, hell might even want to try two of those instead of two field gens. For PVE you will want TSS over sci team.

You would never take a tank into NWS unless the team is carrying you through. No matter how many heals you have you can not keep everyone alive if they do not have enough dps to kill the waves fast. You would only be dragging the team down, and could not really fulfill any role well (can't float, or take any side on your own)

Just FYI recluse is better hypertank.

Edit: guess dahms works too, mine was more of a healer/tank I guess, and mine didn't have the wasted EPTX but his will probably be better for PVE, while mine might work out kinda nice for pvp if you ever try it.

The lack of skill points in threat was an oversight on my part. I would choose the Recluse but I have 2 problems doing that. 1: I recently purchased the galaxy bundle so the fleet exploration cruiser would be the cheaper route compared to saving EC to purchase the recluse. 2:I prefer the 4 fore, 4 aft weapon layout of a cruiser over that of the 3 fore 3 aft of the recluse. Plus, I'm not one for micromanaging ship pets. I also cannot find the trait you were referring to.

woodwhity

You ship does too little dps too be a tank. A tank has two requirements:

1. generate enough threat to draw and hold aggro
2. dont die

If one of them isnt fullfilled, its not a tank. As for the aggro-part, you can trick with embassy consoles. On the dps-part, a2b might help, but has handicaps for a fulltank. I guess the normal galaxy is just the wrong ship for a tank. A Ody, Avenger, even the gal-x would be better (though gal-x might need a2b, or just 2faws with conndoffs). Because there you can have much aggro(-consoles), dps and tankiness in one ship, while the galaxy lacks dps (and therefore aggro).

gameverseman

woodwhity wrote: »

You ship does too little dps too be a tank. A tank has two requirements:

1. generate enough threat to draw and hold aggro
2. dont die

If one of them isnt fullfilled, its not a tank. As for the aggro-part, you can trick with embassy consoles. On the dps-part, a2b might help, but has handicaps for a fulltank. I guess the normal galaxy is just the wrong ship for a tank. A Ody, Avenger, even the gal-x would be better (though gal-x might need a2b, or just 2faws with conndoffs). Because there you can have much aggro(-consoles), dps and tankiness in one ship, while the galaxy lacks dps (and therefore aggro).

I would go with the fleet Galaxy X but its just too offensive for what I'm aiming for. Hence the regular galaxy since it has 5 engineering consoles. Im not even gonna touch on A2B because that is a constantly debated topic that I do NOT want in this thread . Also, since when does DPS merit aggro? I though aggro is just how "attractive" you appear to an NPC when it is fired upon? Also, I would fly an Ody but I already got the galaxy bundle. How would the avenger be a good fit? I flew the fleet one with a tac officer and it has DPS no question but it could barely tank. Thats why that same character in now flying the fleet Galaxy X. The thread for that build can be found here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18505961#post18505961

cepholapoid

Sorry for not clearing that up. The trait is a rep trait, so one of the active ones. It's the teir 4 undine trait.

gameverseman

cepholapoid wrote: »

Sorry for not clearing that up. The trait is a rep trait, so one of the active ones. It's the teir 4 undine trait.

Found it. Thanks!

dahminus

If I had to, I would crank the sci consoles as +threat embassy ones but this build should do plenty enough threat with more then enough sustainability

gameverseman

dahminus wrote: »

If I had to, I would crank the sci consoles as +threat embassy ones but this build should do plenty enough threat with more then enough sustainability

+Th with Pla or Huh/ShH?

dahminus

gameverseman wrote: »

I would go with the fleet Galaxy X but its just too offensive for what I'm aiming for. Hence the regular galaxy since it has 5 engineering consoles. Im not even gonna touch on A2B because that is a constantly debated topic that I do NOT want in this thread . Also, since when does DPS merit aggro? I though aggro is just how "attractive" you appear to an NPC when it is fired upon? Also, I would fly an Ody but I already got the galaxy bundle. How would the avenger be a good fit? I flew the fleet one with a tac officer and it has DPS no question but it could barely tank. Thats why that same character in now flying the fleet Galaxy X. The thread for that build can be found here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18505961#post18505961

Aggro is more "how much more pissed off an npc is compared to the other 4 guys shooting at it." if you are the one that pissed it off the most, it'll focus on you.

gameverseman

dahminus wrote: »

Aggro is more "how much more pissed off an npc is compared to the other 4 guys shooting at it." if you are the one that pissed it off the most, it'll focus on you.

AH! Than how do you TRIBBLE off an NPC? just DPS?

dahminus

gameverseman wrote: »

+Th with Pla or Huh/ShH?

One plasma, one shield heal, one hull heal. Left to right priority.

Plasma console will boost dps thus causing more threat...

gameverseman

dahminus wrote: »

One plasma, one shield heal, one hull heal. Left to right priority.

Plasma console will boost dps thus causing more threat...

Understood

gameverseman

I have updated the build. Feel free to look it back over

dahminus

Optimal way to TRIBBLE an npc off is all threat consoles, attack pattern delta with 3 TRIBBLE everyone off doff, threat skill in skill tree, the threat enhancing self but chillaxing others cruiser command aura and fire at will.

gameverseman

dahminus wrote: »

Optimal way to TRIBBLE an npc off is all threat consoles, attack pattern delta with 3 TRIBBLE everyone off doff, threat skill in skill tree, the threat enhancing self but chillaxing others cruiser command aura and fire at will.

So, like I thought, Threat determines it... not DPS

dahminus

Well...think of dps as the messenger and threat as how loud he's screaming

woodwhity

gameverseman wrote: »

AH! Than how do you TRIBBLE off an NPC? just DPS?

To make an easy calculation, its dps*threat. So if you have 3 times the threat (consoles and co), but I have 3,x times the dps, aggro is all mine. In pugs this usually doesnt happen, but if you happen to get a very good player, its possible that he hogs all the aggro.

Another point: Engineering consoles offer huge diminishing returns, meaning that each armor you slot will give you less absolute value. Normally you can go with 1 Neutronium, if you really tank heavily (though that would only apply in hive) 2 are fine, 3 are on the edge, but 4 is overdoing it.

The Ody, if you had it, would have the benefit of 3 (or 4, if you use the sci-ody, which is perfect for tanking while dpsing, making it a perfect tank) sci-consoles, hence a very big threat-modifier. Cruiser command (which the Galaxy also has) helps too.

Of course the Ody is only a example, but for a good tank to even be a tank when flying in a good group or with a single very good player, medium dps and high threat is a must, so if you have less dps, you need more threat and vice versa. Its a similar reason dahminus offered the recluse as a viable choice, here you can support with your pets, dps quite good, and with 4 engineering and 4 sci-consoles it gets a huge defence and a huge threatmodifier.

Of course you can try the galaxy, since you have it, but if you happen to not be able to tank (meaning, getting and holding aggro), then there are a number of ships with higher dps and threat-possibilities. Just keep that in mind.

gameverseman wrote: »

So, like I thought, Threat determines it... not DPS

Well, just like I said above, someone with high dps can more or less easily steal aggro from a "tank", if the difference is too big.

gameverseman

woodwhity wrote: »

To make an easy calculation, its dps*threat. So if you have 3 times the threat (consoles and co), but I have 3,x times the dps, aggro is all mine. In pugs this usually doesnt happen, but if you happen to get a very good player, its possible that he hogs all the aggro.

Another point: Engineering consoles offer huge diminishing returns, meaning that each armor you slot will give you less absolute value. Normally you can go with 1 Neutronium, if you really tank heavily (though that would only apply in hive) 2 are fine, 3 are on the edge, but 4 is overdoing it.

The Ody, if you had it, would have the benefit of 3 (or 4, if you use the sci-ody, which is perfect for tanking while dpsing, making it a perfect tank) sci-consoles, hence a very big threat-modifier. Cruiser command (which the Galaxy also has) helps too.

Of course the Ody is only a example, but for a good tank to even be a tank when flying in a good group or with a single very good player, medium dps and high threat is a must, so if you have less dps, you need more threat and vice versa. Its a similar reason dahminus offered the recluse as a viable choice, here you can support with your pets, dps quite good, and with 4 engineering and 4 sci-consoles it gets a huge defence and a huge threatmodifier.

Of course you can try the galaxy, since you have it, but if you happen to not be able to tank (meaning, getting and holding aggro), then there are a number of ships with higher dps and threat-possibilities. Just keep that in mind.





Well, just like I said above, someone with high dps can more or less easily steal aggro from a "tank", if the difference is too big.

That makes a lot more sense now. thanks! It wasn't dahminus who suggested the recluse.

dahminus

gameverseman wrote: »

That makes a lot more sense now. thanks! It wasn't dahminus who suggested the recluse.

Wait...what I do now?

gameverseman

dahminus wrote: »

Wait...what I do now?

whity mistakenly said that you were the one who recommended the Recluse carrier.

gameverseman

Has anyone used the new mk XII ultra rare beams with the overload mod in conjunction with FAW? I'm wondering if I can get more DPS that way.