do people really want that? is that what makes pvp fun? how many nukes one side and how much cross healing they can do? everything else is there for some random number roll to create an opening and then the folks pat themselves on the back for their skill? LOL some random lucky opening leads to a kill after 3 nukes?
Yes, that's what makes premade pvp worth it. Because openings NEVER open randomly, you have to force the other team to give you an opening....and of course a nuke helps doing that. It's all about strategy and tactics. If people just want to shoot at things and see them explode everytime they use Alpha, STF's or Cap'n Hold are the better options. This discussion only has a meaning in premade terms, because in the random arena we can get 5 Recluse on one side and 5 Bugs on the other side since there is no matchmaking system.
Yes, that's what makes premade pvp worth it. Because openings NEVER open randomly, you have to force the other team to give you an opening....and of course a nuke helps doing that. It's all about strategy and tactics. If people just want to shoot at things and see them explode everytime they use Alpha, STF's or Cap'n Hold are the better options. This discussion only has a meaning in premade terms, because in the random arena we can get 5 Recluse on one side and 5 Bugs on the other side since there is no matchmaking system.
I agree with you to an extent. I still think burst damage and healing can be ridiculous.
I know you've been healing longer than I have and are no doubt better than me but when someone dies on your team from full health before you can react no matter how fast you do it, or when two or three tacs blow everything they have at a target for a full minute and can't make a dent something is wrong. And that's where the game then it turns less on skill and more on what console you can use to prevent one or the other.
P.S. I fully recognize I use some of those consoles. This was a discussion as to how the game should be.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
I always thought there was a great system that could reduce the amounts of stalemates due to massive crosshealing.
Ship injuries!
In PvP you acquire ship injuries that reduce your effectiveness similar to ESTFS but you receive them while you're still alive and cannot be healed until you die or the match is over.
This would also reduce people who fly around all match receiving massive heals every time they get targeted and never die. Eventually their systems wouldn't be as resilient.
I wouldn't allow injuries to be repairable once out of combat as this would make further game inbalances but repaired on death.
I know most people wont like it, but I like this idea and it's very trek.
It would seem I have brought up a popular topic looking at the number of reads and responses :cool: It would also seem there are a lot of players unhappy with the proposed up coming extra nerf to beam overload..
So how about it Devs, leave it be for a while, and don't do the extra 15% downgrade I have heard rumors about. Hopefully 1 of them will take note of this thread and re-consider nerfing Beam overload anymore than they already have .:eek:
Hawk started a thread in the Build, Powers forum about what people think about abilities and how they would like them changed. Perhaps you should post in there as well.
And we need more PvPers in there as PvEers are already saying albeit in a polite way "TRIBBLE PvP" change everything for PvE
And THAT is why we can't have nice things. As it is, you guys have too much truck with Bort, etc. Things get changed VERY quick when they are on this subforum.
PvP serves a small fraction of the game. It's numbers baby: no one gives a frak about your "vape" build.
And THAT is why we can't have nice things. As it is, you guys have too much truck with Bort, etc. Things get changed VERY quick when they are on this subforum.
PvP serves a small fraction of the game. It's numbers baby: no one gives a frak about your "vape" build.
Please go back on your meds.
Cryptic has made decisions that have made both the pve and pvp communities unhappy. That is why a lot of the pvpers have left this game. This delusion that pvpers have the ear of the devs is nothing but that. If not we would have more than the crappy maps we do and would have other types of pvp as people have been asking for ages.
The reason it seems like the devs listen more to pvpers is that we are more likely to expose the I intended consequences of their actions because we test things extensively. As has been repeated ad naseum an NPC is not going to come into the forums to complaint when cryptic's new god button shuts him down completely with no option to save himself, a person will. Same things with stacking of certain abilities, combination of abilities, doffs, etc.
Finally, pve in this game, as of this moment is nothing but a DPS race, so for the full effect of non dps abilities pvpers are more experienced than most pvers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
Speaking of DPS race, we now have the latest push-this-button-for-max-deeps. It's called TBR with that TRIBBLE new trait from level 15 Science R&D. More of the same, fly about aimlessly rotating your two copies of TBR with as many particle gen consoles as you can squeeze on there and watch your DPS numbers dwarf everything else around you. Guess cryptic didn't want those sci-kirk heroes in pve land to be left out after all, good for them.
Speaking of DPS race, we now have the latest push-this-button-for-max-deeps. It's called TBR with that TRIBBLE new trait from level 15 Science R&D. More of the same, fly about aimlessly rotating your two copies of TBR with as many particle gen consoles as you can squeeze on there and watch your DPS numbers dwarf everything else around you. Guess cryptic didn't want those sci-kirk heroes in pve land to be left out after all, good for them.
Lol, come on, it wasn't that bad. I only died once in that match.
Lol, come on, it wasn't that bad. I only died once in that match.
Haha, nice to see you here. For anyone curious, Lucho was not the one using said trait.
Not just referring to that one match by any means. Should ONE trait really increase someone's damage by what, 200%, 300%, or even 400%?? This puts stupid FAW numbers to shame, and the problem being it actually does meaningful damage. TBR could do some good damage before if used properly, this just hands it over on a silver platter. Once again for max deeps, less thinking required.
From now on take 5 wells or palisades, double up on the tbr, and fly around in circles around your enemies. Fly them with tactical captains for extra spice, oh and don't forget FBP.
Speaking of DPS race, we now have the latest push-this-button-for-max-deeps. It's called TBR with that TRIBBLE new trait from level 15 Science R&D. More of the same, fly about aimlessly rotating your two copies of TBR with as many particle gen consoles as you can squeeze on there and watch your DPS numbers dwarf everything else around you. Guess cryptic didn't want those sci-kirk heroes in pve land to be left out after all, good for them.
Mix in fbp and yeah...insane...especially with the part gen craftables, that trait is stupid....me want:)
BO now like hitting targets with a water beam at this rate. I use BO always I can see the difference now. If they lower Cannons damage also, like we're shooting paper shells at the target. These weapons are not the only features that seem to be throttling down on percentage damage wise. Going to make it tougher.
I have a feeling Cryptic may be feeling pretty confused by now. Too strong, and then nerf, and then people are saying it's too weak.
Pity we have to play the hot-cold game with adjustments like this.
Yeah, if only we had a place where we could test all of this stuff and provide feedback before it went to holodeck.....oh. This is a shot at the devs by the way, not you Scurry.
Yeah, if only we had a place where we could test all of this stuff and provide feedback before it went to holodeck.....oh. This is a shot at the devs by the way, not you Scurry.
Yeah, I understand.
The thing about Tribble, though.....how many people actually bother patching and testing changes when they happen? What fraction of the population?
But then the devs also cause problems there, with an impressively short patch cycle - both good and bad - so not enough time for feedback to make a difference, and then it doesn't seem like feedback is being listened to, and then people stop bothering.....vicious cycle?
The thing about Tribble, though.....how many people actually bother patching and testing changes when they happen? What fraction of the population?
But then the devs also cause problems there, with an impressively short patch cycle - both good and bad - so not enough time for feedback to make a difference, and then it doesn't seem like feedback is being listened to, and then people stop bothering.....vicious cycle?
*Sigh*, just musing about things.
At one time plenty of people tested changes. Then at some point Cryptic decided they didn't really care for feedback so people decided to not bother providing it. Tribble was a great idea... and any time they where serious about feedback a new tribble reward would bring more then enough regular non 14year old basement dwelling min maxers out to test as well. Used to work just fine. I guess one to many times we game them honest negative feedback about honest negative changes.
STO had that happy medium place at launch. The DEVS pushed it out of there. So how this fixes any of the consoles out there I'm unsure as the base mechanics haven't changed. All we did was put in a poorly thought out 'fix' to something that was working as intended.
It is almost as if they don't understand their own combat model, and how it is supposed to work.
Bops where already obsolete flanking wasn't going to save them even if they triple it.
All the removal of Overload does is make the game more heavy ship online. I would guess until T6 details come in the meta until october will be sci sci sci sci carrier sci sci sci carrier. I could be wrong but something tells me most escort jocks will just move to a heavier ship until something changes. All cannon builds where already laughable for the most part. Unless I see something different I have yet to see a good escort build for the amount of resist around right now that didn't rely on either click consoles or overload or both.
The devs don't know what they're doing. You guys have been around the block long enough to see the insane trends they introduce Season after Season, lockbox after lockbox, ship after ship, console after console.
As far as Tribble testing: Bleh. It's bad and it's always been like this for a long, long time now. It's bad to the point that if you see a glaring exploit, glaring issue when it hits Tribble, it's guaranteed to hit Holodeck. It's so bad that Tribble shouldn't exist because it's pointless. Holodeck is the regular Live Server and Test Server, all in one.
I am hearing from several sources from the tribble side of town, they are intending on nerfing BO further. Yeah it's got 100% crit , but they cut the hit power by 25% also when they did that. Now I am hearing they gonna cut the power an additional 15%.
I say ENOUGH ALREADY. :eek: BO was 1 of the few equalizers a tactical ship with less shields and hull had in a stand up fight with the heavily armored cruiser & sci ships, and all their aux2 bat builds.
Not to mention all the damn EC and dilithium and TIME we have spent working on our builds with beam overload as a deciding factor. Now with another 15% reduction in the hit power, they just took away 40% of the strength of the hit. Put it back like it was , as a user of beam overload on several of my builds , I have noticed a significant drop in kills even with the so called 100% crit rate.:mad:
something not mentioned in this entire thread,
bo was nerfed 25%
then another 13%
38% total so far and still crits massively
next all your ec and dilithium on your build is already a waste as you'll soon have to buy new weapons and various other gear when the mk increases, which will boost the base damage on weapons and probably other factors as universal consoles, or rather mk xiv gear/level 60 in total as we've seen many times before nerfs and revamps will probably just make bo even MOAR powerful then now once the new gear comes along.
i know i know its crazy right? using logic of the past you've seen so many times before in sto to predict the future of power creep, i suppose this is why it's called power creep it slowly creeps up on ya like this even thro every nerf and revamp has lead to even more powerful builds down the road :P
oh I totally forgot about how deliciously OP the science trait was. Would definitely push my scis or sci magic users over the top. Hahah should be very fun, except I still have a while before I can unlock it.
next all your ec and dilithium on your build is already a waste as you'll soon have to buy new weapons and various other gear when the mk increases, which will boost the base damage on weapons and probably other factors as universal consoles, or rather mk xiv gear/level 60 in total as we've seen many times before nerfs and revamps will probably just make bo even MOAR powerful then now once the new gear comes along.
i know i know its crazy right? using logic of the past you've seen so many times before in sto to predict the future of power creep, i suppose this is why it's called power creep it slowly creeps up on ya like this even thro every nerf and revamp has lead to even more powerful builds down the road :P
Sorry I missed the nerf by 2%.. guess they read this thread (LMAO) and generously gave us 2% back from the 15 they were gonna originally ad on the 25% they already took.. :eek:
Yep my bop can't vape anymore! This nerf has gone too far. Bring it back up a little you just made a whole play style obsolete...crazy.
Killing players in 1 sec without possibility to react it's just stupid game mechanic, this is mmo not a shooter. Keeping vapers you make other playstyles obsolete.
No vaper ever relied on BO alone. Some of them got lucky BO hits once in a while but they all took it as part of a combination. QQ for the days of one-hit BO everywhere that never were
Minimum damage now is slightly lower than before but everybody has some CritD so practical terms it is still higher for everybody. With 100% CritH you can now buff CritD as high as possible and do much more damage than you did when you also had to worry about CritH.
No vaper ever relied on BO alone. Some of them got lucky BO hits once in a while but they all took it as part of a combination. QQ for the days of one-hit BO everywhere that never were
Minimum damage now is slightly lower than before but everybody has some CritD so practical terms it is still higher for everybody. With 100% CritH you can now buff CritD as high as possible and do much more damage than you did when you also had to worry about CritH.
And it costs nothing so you can spam it all day.
You can't spam bo in a bop, you go in, you get out. Sometimes you get the kill other times you don't. Vaping is more complex than it appears relying on a combination of factors, one of those being bo...
Might be different with a tvaro but bops are struggling bad. I think the PvP flanking bonus should go back to the pve level perhaps.
I'm definitely feeling the loss of offensive output. It used to be that I could end a melee with a well timed BO3 crit (and supporting cannon fire). Now, it's more of a "wear them down with multiple, repeated hits" sort of dynamic.
And with the underlying power being nerfed, it's not just a matter of stacking CrtD. Players rarely get vaped by the BO shot alone. You need to combine it with something else (in my case, CRF from 3x DHCs) in order to get the kill. And if you don't get crits on those non-DBB/Array weapons, you'll likely never take them down on the first pass.
So now it's about balancing CrtD (for the BO shot) and CrtH (for every other shot), while also factoring in Acc (you can't crit what you don't hit).
I'm still figuring out the right balance. Meanwhile, I've got 9x Locators (5 AP, 4 Pol) and 5x Exploiters (1x AP, 4x Pol) that I'm mixing and matching in order to try to find said balance.
In the meantime, I'm adjusting my tactics to always look for the most weakened player in the herd (yes, we're now going full alpha predator and singling out the sickly ones). Makes me feel positively...
Comments
1 line reply? who are you and what have you done with Cap?
Yes, that's what makes premade pvp worth it. Because openings NEVER open randomly, you have to force the other team to give you an opening....and of course a nuke helps doing that. It's all about strategy and tactics. If people just want to shoot at things and see them explode everytime they use Alpha, STF's or Cap'n Hold are the better options. This discussion only has a meaning in premade terms, because in the random arena we can get 5 Recluse on one side and 5 Bugs on the other side since there is no matchmaking system.
I agree with you to an extent. I still think burst damage and healing can be ridiculous.
I know you've been healing longer than I have and are no doubt better than me but when someone dies on your team from full health before you can react no matter how fast you do it, or when two or three tacs blow everything they have at a target for a full minute and can't make a dent something is wrong. And that's where the game then it turns less on skill and more on what console you can use to prevent one or the other.
P.S. I fully recognize I use some of those consoles. This was a discussion as to how the game should be.
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
still works non gdf
77k raw is beast come and test this
I know most people wont like it, but I like this idea and it's very trek.
poor Ker'nal RIP buddy!
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
So how about it Devs, leave it be for a while, and don't do the extra 15% downgrade I have heard rumors about. Hopefully 1 of them will take note of this thread and re-consider nerfing Beam overload anymore than they already have .:eek:
And THAT is why we can't have nice things. As it is, you guys have too much truck with Bort, etc. Things get changed VERY quick when they are on this subforum.
PvP serves a small fraction of the game. It's numbers baby: no one gives a frak about your "vape" build.
Please go back on your meds.
Cryptic has made decisions that have made both the pve and pvp communities unhappy. That is why a lot of the pvpers have left this game. This delusion that pvpers have the ear of the devs is nothing but that. If not we would have more than the crappy maps we do and would have other types of pvp as people have been asking for ages.
The reason it seems like the devs listen more to pvpers is that we are more likely to expose the I intended consequences of their actions because we test things extensively. As has been repeated ad naseum an NPC is not going to come into the forums to complaint when cryptic's new god button shuts him down completely with no option to save himself, a person will. Same things with stacking of certain abilities, combination of abilities, doffs, etc.
Finally, pve in this game, as of this moment is nothing but a DPS race, so for the full effect of non dps abilities pvpers are more experienced than most pvers.
Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
Lol, come on, it wasn't that bad. I only died once in that match.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Haha, nice to see you here. For anyone curious, Lucho was not the one using said trait.
Not just referring to that one match by any means. Should ONE trait really increase someone's damage by what, 200%, 300%, or even 400%?? This puts stupid FAW numbers to shame, and the problem being it actually does meaningful damage. TBR could do some good damage before if used properly, this just hands it over on a silver platter. Once again for max deeps, less thinking required.
From now on take 5 wells or palisades, double up on the tbr, and fly around in circles around your enemies. Fly them with tactical captains for extra spice, oh and don't forget FBP.
Mix in fbp and yeah...insane...especially with the part gen craftables, that trait is stupid....me want:)
Time will only tell!
"I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
Pity we have to play the hot-cold game with adjustments like this.
Yeah, if only we had a place where we could test all of this stuff and provide feedback before it went to holodeck.....oh. This is a shot at the devs by the way, not you Scurry.
Yeah, I understand.
The thing about Tribble, though.....how many people actually bother patching and testing changes when they happen? What fraction of the population?
But then the devs also cause problems there, with an impressively short patch cycle - both good and bad - so not enough time for feedback to make a difference, and then it doesn't seem like feedback is being listened to, and then people stop bothering.....vicious cycle?
*Sigh*, just musing about things.
At one time plenty of people tested changes. Then at some point Cryptic decided they didn't really care for feedback so people decided to not bother providing it. Tribble was a great idea... and any time they where serious about feedback a new tribble reward would bring more then enough regular non 14year old basement dwelling min maxers out to test as well. Used to work just fine. I guess one to many times we game them honest negative feedback about honest negative changes.
The devs don't know what they're doing. You guys have been around the block long enough to see the insane trends they introduce Season after Season, lockbox after lockbox, ship after ship, console after console.
As far as Tribble testing: Bleh. It's bad and it's always been like this for a long, long time now. It's bad to the point that if you see a glaring exploit, glaring issue when it hits Tribble, it's guaranteed to hit Holodeck. It's so bad that Tribble shouldn't exist because it's pointless. Holodeck is the regular Live Server and Test Server, all in one.
something not mentioned in this entire thread,
bo was nerfed 25%
then another 13%
38% total so far and still crits massively
next all your ec and dilithium on your build is already a waste as you'll soon have to buy new weapons and various other gear when the mk increases, which will boost the base damage on weapons and probably other factors as universal consoles, or rather mk xiv gear/level 60 in total as we've seen many times before nerfs and revamps will probably just make bo even MOAR powerful then now once the new gear comes along.
i know i know its crazy right? using logic of the past you've seen so many times before in sto to predict the future of power creep, i suppose this is why it's called power creep it slowly creeps up on ya like this even thro every nerf and revamp has lead to even more powerful builds down the road :P
Sorry I missed the nerf by 2%.. guess they read this thread (LMAO) and generously gave us 2% back from the 15 they were gonna originally ad on the 25% they already took.. :eek:
Killing players in 1 sec without possibility to react it's just stupid game mechanic, this is mmo not a shooter. Keeping vapers you make other playstyles obsolete.
Minimum damage now is slightly lower than before but everybody has some CritD so practical terms it is still higher for everybody. With 100% CritH you can now buff CritD as high as possible and do much more damage than you did when you also had to worry about CritH.
And it costs nothing so you can spam it all day.
You can't spam bo in a bop, you go in, you get out. Sometimes you get the kill other times you don't. Vaping is more complex than it appears relying on a combination of factors, one of those being bo...
Might be different with a tvaro but bops are struggling bad. I think the PvP flanking bonus should go back to the pve level perhaps.
And with the underlying power being nerfed, it's not just a matter of stacking CrtD. Players rarely get vaped by the BO shot alone. You need to combine it with something else (in my case, CRF from 3x DHCs) in order to get the kill. And if you don't get crits on those non-DBB/Array weapons, you'll likely never take them down on the first pass.
So now it's about balancing CrtD (for the BO shot) and CrtH (for every other shot), while also factoring in Acc (you can't crit what you don't hit).
I'm still figuring out the right balance. Meanwhile, I've got 9x Locators (5 AP, 4 Pol) and 5x Exploiters (1x AP, 4x Pol) that I'm mixing and matching in order to try to find said balance.
In the meantime, I'm adjusting my tactics to always look for the most weakened player in the herd (yes, we're now going full alpha predator and singling out the sickly ones). Makes me feel positively...
....EVUL!
RCK
this is false, my BO3 can still deal up to 25-30k damage... if a sci vessell help me with a subnuke, I can still one-shoot.
However, I do not like this BO... revert it back... 2 weeks back!
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves