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Nerfing Crits will remove 90% of the powercreep in this game.
sdkraust
Member Posts: 524 Arc User
The only difference between someone who does 10K DPS in ISE and someone who does 20K is that the 20K person has invested millions of EC / tens of thousands of Dil into Crit. A2B isn't the issue (and hasn't been the "best" DPS build) for over a year now. Crit builds are.
This is an elaborate lie from the DPS-Prime people to distract you and cryptic. This knowledge is freely available
Edit:
For people who don't know, PvE is "broken" by organized teams because of alpha striking, and prolonged staggering of stuff like Tactical Fleet. The other issue of course is Go Down Fighting, but this is a defining trait to Tac Captains, and if anything it should be nerfed again like it's been previously (although this is not really needed IMO)
This is an elaborate lie from the DPS-Prime people to distract you and cryptic. This knowledge is freely available
Edit:
For people who don't know, PvE is "broken" by organized teams because of alpha striking, and prolonged staggering of stuff like Tactical Fleet. The other issue of course is Go Down Fighting, but this is a defining trait to Tac Captains, and if anything it should be nerfed again like it's been previously (although this is not really needed IMO)
Post edited by sdkraust on
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Better get that flame suit on
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
STO-League.com | Weapon Damage Calculator | DPS Web Tools | STO-Center Forums
I have a flame resistant EV Suit.
It's the old Nukara one you upgrade through the Lobi Store
Oww my! Thinking team-playing players knowing how to use their skills are OP nerf their brains.
I like both of you.
People misunderstand "power creep".
That some people can get insanely high dps through insane investment into their character isn't a "power creep" problem. It might be an OP problem or some other kind of problem that needs looking at, but it's not evidence of "power creep". But usually it's not going to be thought of as a problem, because the game is supposed to reward you for careful building and investment.
A "power creep" problem would be when Joe Blow can get insanely high dps in a crappy, mindless build, without even trying. Cryptic's metrics are only going to make them sit up and take notice when your average player in a crappy build can get high dps, because that mucks up the way the game is designed in terms of average time to progress through the levels.
If you really think the difference for 10k vs. 20k is gear, think again. You can easily go 20k with cheap builds, while others in the same build do 10k or less.
Now, I like to play pugs, and both my tank-Ody and my drain-Attrox dont have more than 12% crth, which is pretty much 40-50% of most ships out there can have (as for the attrox, I guess its more like 8%), both are solid 15k in pug builds. And at least the Ody can do 20k in a decent team (sidenote: Ody flown by engineer, Attrox by Scientist). So crit isnt really that big of a problem, and there are enough builds that sacrifice crit for other things (like flowcaps).
Of course, crit will give you more dps, but seriously, you are overestimating it.
So saying "the problem are crit builds" is as wrong as "the problem are a2b-builds", its more complex then this. The basic problem is, that humans aint the same. Give two players the same build (mk xi-things for example, cannons) one will do 4k and struggling, one will do 9k with ease.
And, as one mentioned before, powercreep aint an issue, as only a really low number can max it like this (pug and you will see, powercreep isnt an issue).
Nerfing crit will have the same effect as the passiv rep-"nerf" (only 4 abilities instead of 8/10): The "elite" player wont feel a difference, but for the average one it might feel devastating.
So, go ahead, nerf it. We will just laugh it off
*Looks at crth on Eng FAHCR that I regularly do 12K with*
9%
I'm assuming you have Locators on the mentioned ships.
"Cheap builds" my TRIBBLE
Also maybe go outside out DPS-XXXX for a few minutes (aka your high horse). Worse thing to ever happen to this community.
Edit: *checks FACR with Vulnerability Locators* => 14%
I can imagine what an additional 5% does for DPS.
Yeah, those elitist PvE Heroes. Instead of helping novice players in the random queues they stick to their own narcissistic channels and celebrate themselves for being op, while the rest of the community struggles thru the oh-so-difficult missions.
Right?
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A cheap build? my 9k farming Hafee (though i changed it for a zen-arkif currently), and thats with story-BOS (yeah I know, some crit from them), no doffs (which hurts more than missing reman and such) and mk xi green/blue equip. Sure, this one is tactician. Now, if I were to use beams on it, get some doffs from ferra (or his kdf counterpart) and let a engineer train eptw3 on it, hell, would it skyrock. And thats with very little investment.
Worst part is, I even have to look it up wether or not i really use those storyline-BOs, as I made a flightstyle-vid with it and used only normal non-rom-BOs (making it a escort with handicaps only).
Oh and the Attrox doesnt use locators. And no rom-BOs (still elisa flores and such).
Seriously, I pug all the time and rarely do DPS-Runs, its 1 out of 10 runs if not more. I only understand mechanics, synergies and such, so yeah, running 10k+ with cheap gear is very possible.
The problem isnt the gear. If it would be gear, any average player would do 10k. I like to peek on gateway after pugs, and what shiny gear they have. But their performance make one wanna cry. STO needs a tutorial or something were the mechanics are taught.
Knowledge is the key, not gear
(pre-S6 was 8.5K with a Patrol Escort, it might have been right S6 came out)
If anything, this shows how much Crit affects DPS. those Rom Boffs are making a pretty huge impact
(And to a lesser effect how much team mates affect DPS, this was back when I first started playing with @captainabbadon)
My point with all of this is that the game used to be about skill as a team to do well, now you need skill and a lot of EC to do well.
Edit: Screenshot from 2012 of me doing 6.5K as an Eng in an AE: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66465223/DSG/~_20120912191448.png
Here was the Patrol Escort I was talking about: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66465223/DSG/~_20120913222917.png
From 9/13/2012
I started with f2p, and even then the team was optional. So nothing really changed for those with skill. Except the STFs are finished a bit faster.
Sure, maybe before f2p you needed a team, but seriously, thats ancient times now. In ancient times ppl who werent useful to the community were driven out and starved, or were even killed. But yeah, ancient times and such.
I really like how you say "you have to work in the game to be good in the game" and find that wrong.
Exactly, you can't blame player just because he/she knew how to fly own ship. I know people who easily get 8-9k with 'clean' char which just get 50lv, no reps, no fleet gear, nothing better then blue/purple mk X obtained from previous episodes. Just knowledge how to position own ship toward enemy, when and in what order use skills, etc. It's not good players fault that some other players are to stupid/lazy/put-any-thing-you-want to think what they doing. I also sometimes check others builds on gateway after pug runs and what you can find there makes me sometimes cry and laugh at the same time. It's not high-dps players fault that someone buy fancy rep beams and use them with cannon dmg consoles and skills. Whats more, most of times you try to explain such person his mistake you get ignore.
And what about spending EC? Their are just for that, to spend them. Player devoted his/her time to obtain them so now he can get reward from them.
Exactly, nerf it so FC doesn't effect it, and watch the rage begin.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yeah again nerf something just because some players are intelligent enough to think how to use it. Let's just give everyone same captain clone, with same skills, same gear and no option to change anything and still there will be good high-dps players and the rest.
The game has been pretty close to that, for quite some time now, all in the supposed promotion of game balance, pffft game balance where there is none.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Engineering is not OP but you *can* make a very tough build.
Science? Science has stronger PVP implications but its utility in PVE is really reduced to CC and an ultra-super-specialized-forsake-everything-else-but-Drain Build.
But realize that to attain high Crits, it's not just gear. There's so many sources for crits.
- Space Sets
- Consoles
- Weapon Mods
- Traits
- Romulan Operative / Superior Romulan Operative.
---- Rom Operative in conjunction with Reman Infiltrator+Subterfuge.
The last one is the back breaker. A regular Fed/KDF has trouble getting into the 20's for Crit Hit, or maybe just barely into it, at best. But get Rom Embassy TAC Male BOFFs, *BAM* you're in with the nice Superior Romulan Operative. But what Feds/KDF can do is laughable compared to what the Roms can do. You can have an entire crew with RO/SRO.
On top of that, the Roms can have some sort of combination of RO/SRO with Superior Infiltrator + Superior Subterfuge if you really want to play a deadly "Cloak & Poke" style of game.
And this is before TAC BUFFs come into play.
Edit to add: From a PVP perspective, if there is going to be a significant nerf on hitting power, "staying power," i.e. repair / resist abilities need to be toned down then.
Otherwise people get the Wrong impressions and start flailing out assumptions. When they should just step back and look at the different mechanics of the game more closely.
Just because someone invested time into a particular setup to fit there play style does not mean its a "Power Creep", it just shows that they know more about a specific mechanic in general then the average player. Is this a "bad" thing ? No.
Also when referring to fleet related gear, if cryptic didn't intend for people to create these types of builds, they wouldn't have added those consoles as an incentive to finish a holding to get those consoles would they ?
You have to realize that there are thousands of people that play STO, all with Different play styles. If some of them want to create high DPS builds more power to them, they have that right to play as they want.
Same go's for any build really, what kind of game would STO be if we kept Removing/Nerfing builds left an right just because a small group of people got pissed off over something they really shouldn't be all that concerned with in the 1st place.
An Romulans have already had some Nerfing in reference to there Boff's etc.
AnyWho! that's my 2 Cents
That's just it, they are always continuously removing/nerfing/buffing (well not so much buffing, as opposed to nerfing) things in this game, and who are they exactly balancing this game for?
PVE? Please, balancing isn't so heavily desired here by all, so where else would game balance be needed?
Than their idea of balance, is to nerf something to oblivion, or better yet to virtual uselessness.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Target X subsystem = Crits for the next X timeframe.
I find the crit chance and severity variable in this game laughable. While I appreciate that they dont factor damage in the millions like some games I know, 0.76% critical hit chance is too close to Nothing for me to salivate over, yet see people all the time heralding these items and consoles with negligible crit chance as the dawn of a new age. 76 in 10,000 chance. thats just silly.
Exactly. Running combat parser with Gateway during PUGs was a revelation to me, and changed the way I see these types of discussions on forums. The vast majority of ISEs I've played in, the range is between 2k and about 12k. Occasionally, you'll see someone, or maybe a couple of players, hitting 15k or 20k range. But the ultra high DPS (which I'd say is 40k, upwards) is very, very rare, compared to the mass of players out there.
You are absolutely correct: there are tons of builds out there that have some of the "toys", and look like cookie-cutter this or that, but either they don't truly understand about synergies or they don't have much manual skill, or they just don't care.
And it's like this in every MMO I've ever played: you can copy an "uber" build off a forum, but if you don't understand what you're doing, you can switch out even just one module and mess it up, or if you don't know how to play it - i.e. how to time things - then your DPS wont' be all that speshul.
The ultra high DPS runs are coordinated attacks. It is all about timing. The strongest run I have ever done is 29k DPS. If you have multiple players running timed buffs and positioning of ships it can be fun. It is about team coordination.
While I believe SROs and Locators should either be nerfed or have diminishing returns. This game has become to DPS inclusive. I have been playing at a dumber level on my Klingon to help other players. When you shut down NPCs to allow others to have fun. This is enjoyable to me.
But there are differences to players. I played a KASE (Vortex) where a player only did 700 DPS. He never had more than two buffs going on. These are the players that need help. He also sad we did the mission as fast as he as ever seen. Had 5 minutes left on optional. It was actually slow.
A2B is part of the problem. Specially with the uncoupling of team ability cooldowns. I do suggest a nerf, but not a full nerf.
These are my ideas for nerf A2B builds.
1. Tie resistance and targeting to Aux power levels. Since ships needs sensors to target for every point of power you loose in aux you also loose that in accuracy. 50 being the base. So if you run A2B and it drains the ship to 5 aux power that ships accuracy or targeting is reduced by 45 points.
2. Make it where there is no shared cooldown for running two copies of the ability. If you decide to run A2B all copies of it will go 40 second cooldown. This will prevent the constant uptime of certain abilities and keep from always hitting global.
3. Another big issue is weapons power over capping. If we could stop this and reduce the amount of gear the helps reduce weapons drain. This will also fix some A2B builds. Make 125 the max power with no over cap unless you have a overcharged warpcore for that system.
It's the FotM scapegoat, NOTHING else!
I was reading along and agreeing with some of what you said, considering your words rationally as normal people do, but then you start spewing the irrational A2Bat nerf lust and I just ignore everything you say. You clearly don't know the issues or what is going on.