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Hangar Unit Recharge Rates Out Balance: Easy Fixes Needed
warmaker001b
Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
As an avid Carrier user, I was digging through the hangar unit selection again and was looking at the Hangar Recharge Rates for each unit. Noticed that the KDF Frigates are much longer to replace compared to some of the other ones. Faction specific craft are generally fine (other than KDF frigates), but the lockbox/lobi ship hangar units are wayyyyy out of balance.
Here is what the hangar recharge timers are for all the units in the game, broken down by classification of Fighters/Light Shuttles, Heavy Suttles/Fighters, Frigates. This is dictated by the number of units launchable. The only one truly different is the Romulan Drone Ship since it launches 1 each time for a total of 2. Yellow highlights for the irregularities.
FIGHTERS - Launch 3 for total of 6 per hangar
To'Duj - 40 seconds
Siphon Drone - 60 seconds
S'Kul - 40 seconds
Slaver - 40 seconds
Peregrine - 40 seconds
Type 8 & 10 - 40 seconds
Stalker - 40 seconds
Jem'Hadar Fighter - 40 seconds
Scorpion - 40 seconds
SHUTTLES/HVY FIGHTERS - Launch 2 for total of 4 per hangar
Marauding Force - 60 seconds
Danube & Yellowstone - 60 seconds
Delta Flyer - 60 seconds
Voth Heavy Fighter - 60 seconds
Shield Repair Unit - 80 seconds
FRIGATES - Launch 1 for total of 2 per hangar
Birds of Prey - 80 seconds
Fer'Jai - 80 seconds
Tachyon Drone - 80 seconds
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship - 40 seconds
Mesh Weaver - 40 seconds
Romulan Drone Ship - 40 seconds
Xindi Mobulai - 40 seconds
In the Fighter and Shuttle portion of the line, there are very few that are out of sync with the rest of their equivalents. But the Frigate recharge rates are completely out of whack. KDF Frigates take twice as long to replace than JHAS, Mesh Weaver, Drone Ship, Mobulai Frigates.
I suggest setting things uniform between the 3 classes for recharge timers, for ALL units belonging to those classes.
All Fighters / Light Shuttles - 40 second recharge timers
All Heavy Shuttles / Fighters - 60 second recharge timers
All Frigates - 80 second recharge timers
Here is what the hangar recharge timers are for all the units in the game, broken down by classification of Fighters/Light Shuttles, Heavy Suttles/Fighters, Frigates. This is dictated by the number of units launchable. The only one truly different is the Romulan Drone Ship since it launches 1 each time for a total of 2. Yellow highlights for the irregularities.
FIGHTERS - Launch 3 for total of 6 per hangar
To'Duj - 40 seconds
Siphon Drone - 60 seconds
S'Kul - 40 seconds
Slaver - 40 seconds
Peregrine - 40 seconds
Type 8 & 10 - 40 seconds
Stalker - 40 seconds
Jem'Hadar Fighter - 40 seconds
Scorpion - 40 seconds
SHUTTLES/HVY FIGHTERS - Launch 2 for total of 4 per hangar
Marauding Force - 60 seconds
Danube & Yellowstone - 60 seconds
Delta Flyer - 60 seconds
Voth Heavy Fighter - 60 seconds
Shield Repair Unit - 80 seconds
FRIGATES - Launch 1 for total of 2 per hangar
Birds of Prey - 80 seconds
Fer'Jai - 80 seconds
Tachyon Drone - 80 seconds
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship - 40 seconds
Mesh Weaver - 40 seconds
Romulan Drone Ship - 40 seconds
Xindi Mobulai - 40 seconds
In the Fighter and Shuttle portion of the line, there are very few that are out of sync with the rest of their equivalents. But the Frigate recharge rates are completely out of whack. KDF Frigates take twice as long to replace than JHAS, Mesh Weaver, Drone Ship, Mobulai Frigates.
I suggest setting things uniform between the 3 classes for recharge timers, for ALL units belonging to those classes.
All Fighters / Light Shuttles - 40 second recharge timers
All Heavy Shuttles / Fighters - 60 second recharge timers
All Frigates - 80 second recharge timers
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
The drones are also oddballs.
The frigates are a serious problem. Worse, not every lobster driver has high aux power, and try summoning those frigates with a 50 or lower power....
*
I thought it was two per hanger? either way, they have larger recharge times probably for a ballance reasoning, drains can be lethal so cooldoowns are longer (something to that effect)
as for the frigates im quite happy for lockbox ships to have lower c/downs, you pay more you get more (sad but true) however the drone ships are not lockbox related, their timer should get a kick up :P
If anyone reading this isn't already aware, the recharge time for hangars is reduced if your Aux power is high. My carriers all run high aux and with aux batteries so I can pretty much spam fighters or frigates.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Drone ships are Romulan and therefore overpowered, that is why they get a fast timer.
AUX helps but its just a reduction off the base time; the base times are not the same. I run both a karfi and a recluse, both with "about" 100-110 or so aux power. I can drop 2 sets of mesh weavers before the first cube dies in ICE. I can drop my second set of ferji (spelling?) about the time the nanite sphere wave activates.
The values I pulled are straight from the Fleet Stores Menus while looking up Elite Versions. Not from while in space. So the values are as stable as you can get.
As for the others' notion of shorter cooldowns for lobi/lockbox ships, hogwash. In general, before Cryptic implemented more Carriers, the cooldowns were balanced between the different types. This can be seen in general with the faction hangar units. Only once we started getting the Recluse, JHDC, etc did it get ridiculous.
40 seconds for Mesh Weaver and JHAS Frigates and such? That's Fighter replacement rates with the power of Frigates, which is completely unfair while Kar'Fi and Birds of Prey are x2 that.
if anyone pays with realmoney for it whats the Problem??
i dont see it.
Siphon drones get massivly nerfs about kiddyspams in the past like"they are sooooo overpowerd" thats the result, a useless petttype now.
in the past with the really great carrier control, it was possible to spawn infinity Siphons, the the first nerf was ok.
the nerf of shild repair Units is not to understand, from no side, there was never a Problem with this pet.
and why tahyon Units now classified like frigates??
this pets are more lame then any fighter pet.......if i remember right you get per Hangar 4 of this pets, now 2 and a recordbreaking cooldown.....
the new stupid carrier control makes alot pets now 100% useless, thats the reallity what Players get finally for there Spams in this board.
the most crapy Thing in the new carrier gameplay is you get random Nonsens respawns, nobody notice it??
6 pets out-> 3 pets dying->1 pets you get respawned not the 3 dead with a klick!!!!!........:eek:
in the past you get restored with one klick what have died or near dead pets was replaced, now this new gamestyle what brings no fun for carrier Players+ cooldowns are 2 bad things what work together.;)
the Major Change in carrier gamemechanik destroys much more then a not perfekt cooldown timer...... this Diskussion is pointless if you not see what happend.
better make a Diskussion why the fantastik gamemechanik from the past was destroyed.
They are frigates, with the staying power and firepower of frigates, but have the hangar recharge of fighters that are quick to replace?
No. Hell no.
1x klick on fighters gives you 3 pets
1x klick on frigates gives you 1 pets
and 3 fighter pets deal better dps then 1 frigate, the frigattes have only one good Point, they can take some more hits thats all.
so if a full fighter wing is stronger then a frigatte where you see the Balance Problem???
what frigate have so big firepower?
if you think ist not true try out.
a wing of elite scorpion or elite Obelisk fighters vs any frigate.;)
One Grav Well or one BFAW1 and your ENTIRE fully deployed wings of Scorpions & Obelisks, Elite or not, are DEAD.
The difference between Frigates is far more than that. Far, far more.
Firstly, as you stated, Frigates can take the shots. They do not die the very first moment the enemy decides to do the very first AOE ability. The moment this happens, Fighters drop like flies, whether they are 5 star or not.
Secondly, Frigates are literally armed to the teeth in weapons and abilities, some having 2 "BOFF abilities" at strength 2 or even 3.
Thirdly, the combination of staying power and greater firepower means they usually tend to live a lot longer and get to 5 stars much more easily than Fighters.
Not saying Frigates is what you need in all cases. There are times I switch out my Frigates in favor of Fighters. But the power of Frigates is undeniable. Hangar recharge is one of those balancing acts Cryptic originally did between:
Cheap Fighters/Light Shuttles that are quick to replace but can bring volume of fire.
Fewer, more powerful, but sturdy Frigates that take longer to replace.
The middle ground, Shuttles like the Danube, Delta Flyer, which can be replaced in a rate in between Fighters and Frigates.
If you can't see the power of Frigates over Fighters and how their replacement rates ARE a balancing act, then I don't know what to say.
For example: Elite Scorpion Fighters each have: dual plasma cannon, plasma turret, plasma torpedo, and fire THY1.
Tholian Recluse carriers can carry Tholian Mesh Weavers, a frigate that has 2x DBBs, 1x BA, 1x thermionic torpedo, can use FAW3, ABP3, Evasive Maneuvers, and Tetryon Feedback.
Elite JH fighters: SC, DC, and BA (all Polaron), and uses DEM3 and CRF1
Elite JHAS (frigate) has DC, BA, turret (all Pol), and quantum torpedo, and uses BO2, CRF3, Kamikaze, and anti-proton sweep.
Now let's look at the KDF-only frigates: All have a dual cannon and an aft turret, and a warhead. Fer'Jai have mines and an extra warhead type on top of that, but BoPs only have CRF and THY to use along with their cloaks.
As for "they do more than that" -- what you're describing is exactly what he said. They don't get instantly killed by FAW because they can take a bit of a hit before dying. I use BoPs on my Vo'Quv. They die just as easy as most pets. They last a little longer, but if something takes a liking to them? They die. Or they cloak to hide, and they're not firing and doing me any good when they're cloaked.
That BoP may have CRF and THY, but it is only one BoP per wave. The same elite Scorpion wave has 3 copies of THY firing all a the same time with their own cooldowns. That's a lot more boff skills being thrown around at one time than a single frigate can do.
Now, if you want REALLY overpowered, voth elite heavy fighters... EPTS3, EPTW3, BO2. Oh... lookit that. Funny how they have the standard "short" cooldown.
No, there is no defending the longer CD times the KDF frigates have. The times since they were first released have changed so much and the overall gameplay has changed so much that the shorter "newer" numbers are more fitting. They simply never went back and updated the older pets.
Keep in mind KDF had carriers for years before the Feds ever did. These are OLD game features. They fall through the cracks when new ones are updated. Look how long it took to update the Gal-X, eh?
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Carrier_Pets
shots from what? you are talking about pvp or pve?
i am playing pve only, and 3 years carrier only.
a fighter class get killed after 3 hits thats right in an elite Mission, but who cares , 1 button and i have 3 new instanty fighting pets......
dps loose is negatable.
i dont think you ever Play carrier, coz if you will ever have that.
you will know that figther classes much more powerfull in dpsing.
for example i send a full wing elite scorpions"12 pets" in ISE vs the cube"over the Generator" solo, they kill him easy and after the fight ~6 pets alive.
the bad example now:
i try the same with the new elite Mobulai Frigates, they are slow like hell, so get killed in some seconds about there slownes.
now the 2 Problems:
the dps from 4 elite frigates is much lower" i think ~half or more" then from a full 12x fighter wing.
so they Need longer and coz they are so easy to target they get very fast killed.
no way for frigates to defeat a cube.....
yes you must in a full Mission not so many times respawn frigate pets, but that is not really Problem,
respawn 10 times new fightter pets in a elite Mission or 4 times frigates is for you a big Problem?.......:rolleyes:
the stars a prety usless coz only in teoretical they get 10% more dps with 5 stars.
in the game you never fell any Change, i Thing they only build in this TRIBBLE for a compensation for destroying the old carrier gamemechanik...."the stars are a funny visual not more"
like i say bevor i have near all carriers+ all pets on elite what a KDF Play can have!!!!!
and have all of them compare what is usefull and what ist not, dps , how Long they stay, how fast a pet ist back in battle after respawn,.......
the only really good performing frigate ist the elite JHAS.
it have a good agility so it not get so many hits like alot other frigates in a battle, it have a good dmg Output"shooting+ switching weapons" not so high then most fighters but ok in compare to most other frigates.
but i use pets mainly to increase my total dps to finish elite runs faster and for that the only way to go ist using fighters no frigates.
and if you use pets for increasing dps .
coz fighters are so much more powerfull then frigates, the importand gamechange must be to increase the cooldown for fighters from 40sec to 60 or 80, to compensate there crazy power.;)
I am talking about both PVE & PVP. Because unlike you, I *HAVE* taken my Carriers into both. As a KDF and Fed.
But, I edited this reply to cut my reply down because we are drifting from what this thread was originally made for in the first place.
Anyways, the issue still stands:
Frigate Recharge Rates are out of whack and not in uniform. Something has to give in bringing them back in line.
When you have 1 set of Frigates taking 40 seconds to replace, while others take 80 seconds, this is way wrong.
They need a massive buff in hull and more features, by far to be frigates.
Oh, I know what you're saying. Been here since Day 1 when the only thing KDF could do to level was run Kahless Expanse a few thousand more times or do PVP. All. The. Time.
But I'll keep bringing up the stuff that is an issue to the KDF.
Also, I highlighted the part which I think the Rom players, esp. those who came primarily from the Fed playerbase, are finally figuring out what the KDF had known for years :cool: