This will likely lead down a rabbit hole I don't want to be in. . . but. . . What, exactly, do you think we (devs) have made, just because we want to make something cool, not because we think it is benefiting the game? From my side, there is nothing we make that we don't think is a benefit to the game.
Mek'leths, Ushaan-Tors. I understand it has more to do with animations rather than the weapon models. But with Dan Stahl leaking a picture of the Ushaan-Tor, well... yeah, it's one of those things I think just look cool -- even if it isn't in the game.
You have the various commbadge art assets that were leaked for various species, but subsequently never released in-game, but leaked to the public as things being worked on.
I could also point to various things in Dan Stahl's old Engineering Reports that simply never came to pass, but to be fair? Many things also did.
It may not always work out to be, but the intent is always there.
I think that's part of that very fine line that divides "You promised X." with "Are you just wasting our time and money?"
I think early on in the game's development, your team had some very big ideas and very big dreams of what you want to do with Star Trek Online. You simply lacked the manpower and financing to accomplish those dreams.
That isn't Cryptic's fault.
It's what I would consider a very normal (and understandable) case of a small independant studio with big expensive studio ideas.
Leaking information/pictures of some of those big ideas, but later on in development understanding you don't have the budget or time to see it through -- even though the intent was always there.
When Perpetual wastes CBS Studios' time and money in a very similar way (resulting in the job being sent to your company instead), I hope you can at least understand my reservations on Cryptic possibly showing signs of going down the same road, even if you don't necessarily agree with them.
I can say things aren't like that anymore.
Mr. Rivera has pointed out that the STO dev team is more realistic with their expectations than they used to be. And obviously your staffing and budget has improved tremendously from back in the day.
Mr. Rivera has pointed out that the STO dev team is more realistic with their expectations than they used to be. And obviously your staffing and budget has improved tremendously from back in the day.
Sure, but things are still going to get partially developed, and then later abandoned, for what I'm sure are many various reasons, from time to time.
It's a shame that we sometimes get a peek at these things before they're dropped by the dev team, but I'd wager there are many other things that don't get finished that we never get to glimpse at all.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
This will likely lead down a rabbit hole I don't want to be in. . . but. . . What, exactly, do you think we (devs) have made, just because we want to make something cool, not because we think it is benefiting the game?
Sure, but things are still going to get partially developed, and then later abandoned, for what I'm sure are many various reasons, from time to time.
It's a shame that we sometimes get a peek at these things before they're dropped by the dev team, but I'd wager there are many other things that don't get finished that we never get to glimpse at all.
I'm sure. But we've also seen the game expand by leaps and miles since Cryptic was acquired by PWE. We've seen more evidence of their learning experiences and streamlining methods than before.
When the game is in the state it's in from 2010-2011, and pictures/info are being leaked, it has a different impression on the playerbase than it might in 2013-2014.
In one time period, you have STO in a rather unfulfilling state. In another you have what is essentially an entirely different game.
I would want everybody to have chance to throw a pie at their awesome beautiful face which would lead into those 2 having awesome dinner together having polite conversations while eating yummy yummy PIE!
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
What I cant figure out is that every other mmo I play has great communications between developers and customers (the people that make sure the coding people can buy that steak dinner) and everyone gets along the majority just fine...
(The other MMO I occasionally still play)
"What's the point in having a test server, if they're going to ignore feedback?"
"The update broke <role> for <powerset>"
And the occasional comments about bugs that have been around for over a year.
(Going back over a decade, with pen and paper RPGs)
"What's the point in having a playtesters, if you're going to ignore our feedback?"
. . . What, exactly, do you think we (devs) have made, just because we want to make something cool, not because we think it is benefiting the game? From my side, there is nothing we make that we don't think is a benefit to the game. It may not always work out to be, but the intent is always there.
In my view, i don't think there's any question that all the decisions made at Cryptic are made in good faith.
You make things you think cool and that you think makes the game better.
That's not really the point.
A famous general once said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
I used to run a theatre company that specialised in promenade theatre.
Just like you at Cryptic we brainstormed ideas for each show and selected those we thought were cool and made our show better.
Sometimes, an idea would have to get junked or changed at short notice, as practicality reared its ugly head.
I'm sure that you good people at Cryptic have experienced the same issues in the process.
It's an unavoidable aspect of all creative processes, whether they're video games or theatre shows.
The point is, what happens next.
Audiences are a bit like little children in many ways.
One of them is that, all too often, when faced with the grand present you've carefully crafted for them they play with the box it came in instead.
Our intentions are less to do with the actual experience than we'd like to think.
Now, I haven't played any 9.5 content yet, and I'm looking forward to it.
However, I hope we can all agree that purely on the PR and CR side of things, the 9.5 release has not been to the standards we should all expect.
There has been criticism, some of it quite rowdy.
Considering this as a standalone event, this criticism is valid, although the tone may not always have been so.
My question to you, Taco, is how are people at cryptic reacting to this criticism?
Not in concrete terms, but in approach.
Are people sighing and bemoaning the whiny players? Are people thinking that the fault lies PWE/Cryptic side? Do people care?
That may be the question, but i don't want the answer.
As players we need to do a little thinking on how we can adjust our attitude or approach to make this communication thing work better.
Thinking about the question I've asked could be something cryptic could do at your end.
Because, imo, if we want STO to be all it should and can be, we all need to do a little better at communication.
I miss the days where we could talk about what we were working on. Where we could slip out sneak peek images now and then, etc. Unfortunately, that all leads to 'You Promised!' land, which is no fun for anyone.
lol the Promised Land.
Ah well, at least we get those nifty blog things. What ever happened with the hair tech stuff anyways?
the "official" place for communications, should be here. Facebook twitter, et all should lead here, no where else. If its on those platforms, it NEEDS to be here.
As far as "you promised" The problem Cryptic has is it had a EP that became known for such grandiose claims and statements. Given them, many of us took a man for his word when in hind sight that was not a smart idea.
My personal thought is if you work toward something that just utterly blows up, that you've previously announced, don't bury it, let it be known, "hey we tried but it exploded, badly, and its just not going to work right now."
you can also use a line I used to use at work all the time. "I won't guarantee it, but I'm going to /try/ to do this for you." That way if it works out you look good, and if it doesn't, you look honest. Both are good.
Comments
.. / .-.. .. -.- . / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / - --- --- .-.-.-
My character Tsin'xing
Sent you, borticus, hawk and geko something that might need some attention
Mek'leths, Ushaan-Tors. I understand it has more to do with animations rather than the weapon models. But with Dan Stahl leaking a picture of the Ushaan-Tor, well... yeah, it's one of those things I think just look cool -- even if it isn't in the game.
You have the various commbadge art assets that were leaked for various species, but subsequently never released in-game, but leaked to the public as things being worked on.
I could also point to various things in Dan Stahl's old Engineering Reports that simply never came to pass, but to be fair? Many things also did.
I think that's part of that very fine line that divides "You promised X." with "Are you just wasting our time and money?"
I think early on in the game's development, your team had some very big ideas and very big dreams of what you want to do with Star Trek Online. You simply lacked the manpower and financing to accomplish those dreams.
That isn't Cryptic's fault.
It's what I would consider a very normal (and understandable) case of a small independant studio with big expensive studio ideas.
Leaking information/pictures of some of those big ideas, but later on in development understanding you don't have the budget or time to see it through -- even though the intent was always there.
When Perpetual wastes CBS Studios' time and money in a very similar way (resulting in the job being sent to your company instead), I hope you can at least understand my reservations on Cryptic possibly showing signs of going down the same road, even if you don't necessarily agree with them.
I can say things aren't like that anymore.
Mr. Rivera has pointed out that the STO dev team is more realistic with their expectations than they used to be. And obviously your staffing and budget has improved tremendously from back in the day.
Sure, but things are still going to get partially developed, and then later abandoned, for what I'm sure are many various reasons, from time to time.
It's a shame that we sometimes get a peek at these things before they're dropped by the dev team, but I'd wager there are many other things that don't get finished that we never get to glimpse at all.
The disco balls?
I'm sure. But we've also seen the game expand by leaps and miles since Cryptic was acquired by PWE. We've seen more evidence of their learning experiences and streamlining methods than before.
When the game is in the state it's in from 2010-2011, and pictures/info are being leaked, it has a different impression on the playerbase than it might in 2013-2014.
In one time period, you have STO in a rather unfulfilling state. In another you have what is essentially an entirely different game.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
(The other MMO I occasionally still play)
"What's the point in having a test server, if they're going to ignore feedback?"
"The update broke <role> for <powerset>"
And the occasional comments about bugs that have been around for over a year.
(Going back over a decade, with pen and paper RPGs)
"What's the point in having a playtesters, if you're going to ignore our feedback?"
In my view, i don't think there's any question that all the decisions made at Cryptic are made in good faith.
You make things you think cool and that you think makes the game better.
That's not really the point.
A famous general once said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
I used to run a theatre company that specialised in promenade theatre.
Just like you at Cryptic we brainstormed ideas for each show and selected those we thought were cool and made our show better.
Sometimes, an idea would have to get junked or changed at short notice, as practicality reared its ugly head.
I'm sure that you good people at Cryptic have experienced the same issues in the process.
It's an unavoidable aspect of all creative processes, whether they're video games or theatre shows.
The point is, what happens next.
Audiences are a bit like little children in many ways.
One of them is that, all too often, when faced with the grand present you've carefully crafted for them they play with the box it came in instead.
Our intentions are less to do with the actual experience than we'd like to think.
Now, I haven't played any 9.5 content yet, and I'm looking forward to it.
However, I hope we can all agree that purely on the PR and CR side of things, the 9.5 release has not been to the standards we should all expect.
There has been criticism, some of it quite rowdy.
Considering this as a standalone event, this criticism is valid, although the tone may not always have been so.
My question to you, Taco, is how are people at cryptic reacting to this criticism?
Not in concrete terms, but in approach.
Are people sighing and bemoaning the whiny players? Are people thinking that the fault lies PWE/Cryptic side? Do people care?
That may be the question, but i don't want the answer.
As players we need to do a little thinking on how we can adjust our attitude or approach to make this communication thing work better.
Thinking about the question I've asked could be something cryptic could do at your end.
Because, imo, if we want STO to be all it should and can be, we all need to do a little better at communication.
lol the Promised Land.
Ah well, at least we get those nifty blog things. What ever happened with the hair tech stuff anyways?
As far as "you promised" The problem Cryptic has is it had a EP that became known for such grandiose claims and statements. Given them, many of us took a man for his word when in hind sight that was not a smart idea.
My personal thought is if you work toward something that just utterly blows up, that you've previously announced, don't bury it, let it be known, "hey we tried but it exploded, badly, and its just not going to work right now."
you can also use a line I used to use at work all the time. "I won't guarantee it, but I'm going to /try/ to do this for you." That way if it works out you look good, and if it doesn't, you look honest. Both are good.
Just my thoughts