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Which Science Vessel?
djf021
Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
My KDF Science officer is close to lvl 50 and I'm trying to plan ahead. I've got some zen to blow, so I was considering getting her a lockbox science vessel, but I don't HAVE to. For my Fed science I have Vesta, for my Rom science I have Advanced Dyson (Tac version), so I was looking to find something different for my KDF science.
Here are my preferences:
A Boff layout that allows a Lt Commander Tac, be it stock or universal.
A console layout that allows at least 3 tac consoles.
Regardless of which ship I get, I'm also considering the Temporal Warfare set and running an antiproton build.
Is the temporal science vessel still for the most part the favorite lockbox science vessel? Or is there another lockbox science ship that is competitive with it these days? OR, should I just get the KDF version of Dyson?
What are your thoughts/opinions?
Here are my preferences:
A Boff layout that allows a Lt Commander Tac, be it stock or universal.
A console layout that allows at least 3 tac consoles.
Regardless of which ship I get, I'm also considering the Temporal Warfare set and running an antiproton build.
Is the temporal science vessel still for the most part the favorite lockbox science vessel? Or is there another lockbox science ship that is competitive with it these days? OR, should I just get the KDF version of Dyson?
What are your thoughts/opinions?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Post edited by djf021 on
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Unless you want to run a Carrier or a non-KDF Faction ship.
Karfi. Lt cmdr tac, plus a lt tac. Fleet version has 4 tac consoles. 4/3 weapon layout. 8 base turn rate. The frig pets do massive spike dmg, dual ap + crf III, followed up by tricobalt + hy III. Being a unique "Battle Carrier," it can fit dhcs, but I don't think 8 turn rate will be enough, so unless you plan to use RCS...
I'm fine with a non-KDF faction ship if it's competitive. I considered the Voth palisade, but I just can't shake the feeling that 2 tac consoles is a bit low. And the orb weaver looks pretty good, except the boff forces you to be either overly sciency or overly tac.
Perhaps you're right about the Korath...
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Nah, since I have the cannons on the Dyson and Vesta for the other two factions, I like the idea of doing something different and trying a chroniton/antiproton dual beam/temporal disruption fore + omni antiproton/kkb/antiproton aft build. But those weapons can be used on any ship...
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Well, the Karfi is the clear winner, not to mention cost less. Its only downside is handling badly compared to typical science vessels.
If you can skip that, then as far as your other prerequisites go, your only choices are:
Temporal Science or Kar'Fi Carrier
Temporal Science ship is quite flexible in its BOFF seating and handles very well. Has all the usual stuff of science ships: Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targeting. However, it's pretty expensive on the exchange.
Kar'Fi is a full fledged 2 hangar carrier. The frigates unique to it are very robust and pack a lot of punch. It also has fighters unique to it also, making the Kar'Fi one of the unique ships in the game that has 2 hangar units that only it can use. It has Cmdr SCI and LtCdr TAC at the minimum with the console layout you desire. Fleet version improves on this. It also has the best turn rate of all Carriers, if that matters to you. The only catches to this ship is the relatively lighter hull among carriers and a very basic Lt ENG station. You need to be a player that knows how to survive with minimal ENG stations.
Otherwise, this ship packs a very potent combination: 2 full hangars, good unique hangar units, tied with JHDC for most weapon slots on a carrier, handles well for a carrier, powerful combo of good TAC & SCI abilities.
Oh, Kar'Fi does not have Sensor Analysis, BTW. No carriers do, IIRC.
Nope, they don't. No Subsytem Targeting either. I believe they also don't have the increased Stealth Detection base that Sci Vessels have. They won't be getting the mythical Secondary Deflectors.
Hrmm, though, in the end - looking at the OP's three requirements - there's nothing there that suggest running any sort of Sci Vessel...Raider, Raptor, Battle Cruiser, etc, etc, etc - the door's wide open without any actual Sci requirements.
I'd really prefer to stick with a pure science vessel, as I have a theme across all my characters; I match the career with the ship type. I know I don't HAVE to do that, but I like it. Sounds like the temporal science vessel is the answer...I honestly didn't mean to make the options so narrow, (and therefore limit the suggestions you guys could come up with) but I guess I've gotten spoiled to the extra tac potential my other science characters have in the Vesta and the Advanced Dyson
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
As far as Stealth Detection, I tested with the Kar'Fi and Vo'Quv, and they do get the bonus for detection with better Aux Power. They benefited the exact same way as when I tested with the Veranus.
I wouldn't be surprised if the other carriers get the same stealth detection benefit. Anyways, I put my findings on it on this thread.
Heh, you didn't make the options narrow...Cryptic did. There just aren't that many choices for KDF/Rom.
That's neat to know, and sure enough - checking it on my guy in his Kar'Fi, following the formula vonamicus dropped out - it does. Nifty. Thanks.
Of course, if he's not a 1000 day vet then uh... yeah, nevermind :V
I know it's not part of the OP's parameters but what do you guys think of the Varanus?
I kind of have a soft spot for the Veranus. In terms of a pure supporting vessel, it's the best in helping the team retain good all-around hullpoint levels. The C-Store ship's "Repair Platform" can be dropped several times. Nearby friendly ships get 2 hull repair drones and if they stay close long enough, 4 of them. And they keep healing. This lets you and the team save those hull repairs for when you really need them. If you know your way around an instance, you can start dropping Repair Platforms at the high traffic areas and spread them out. That way if you predict the movements of your team right, they'll almost always be near one of these platforms collecting at least a pair of hull repair drones. Because of this, even with the very mediocre ENG station, it's very good in hull repairs. FREE hull repairs for all.
Outside that, it's very vanilla, old school STO science vessel that can't do anything else well. It doesn't even have 5 SCI Consoles for the Fleet version. It can do pure science builds well, but outside that, you can't hope for much at all.
Peghqu's universal station is lieutenant commander, which is the highest univ boffs go, so no commander science skills. That limits it to one grav I, no grav III, among other things. Lots of other nonscience boats, like the Breen Cruiser, can also fit a grav well I. It's nothing special.
Also the Temporal Warfare set is the 3 piece weapon lobi set, not the 2 console set from temporal ships. You don't want the 2 console set anyway, as one of them is essentially a suicide console. Any ship can use the Temporal Warfare set.
What makes Korath stand out is its ability to set 4 out of 5 boffs as science boff, at the expense of tac. Now that's a lot of science. But OP's requirement of lieutenant commander tac means setting the universal boff as tac. With this characteristic negated, it's just a poorly performing ordinary science boat, with about the same science gemmicks and far less dps compared to the Karfi. It also doesn't have the option to mount massive drain builds (far more powerful than Vesta drain build) that utilize 12 drain pets.
Varanus runs short of tac boff, not to mention fewer gun and no pet. No notable advantage there. The repair platform, frankly, isn't worth a console slot.
There's the bop, just as flexible in boff as Korath, 4 out of 4 are universal, and much more punch than Korath. It's also just about as paper-thin as Karfi's frig pet, 4 of which probably does more dmg too...
That leaves Dyson, which would appear stronger than Varanus or Korath, but not on par with Karfi. If the condition is to avoid carrier, Dyson is actually a decent choice, above the others.
So you vote for the Dyson? That's really what I want to know...I really appreciate all the suggestions, but I just want to know which PURE science vessel you guys think is best for KDF? I'm willing to go C-store OR lockbox.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
"Science? What Science?"
Really, tho, in KDF the only PURE science choices are the gorn vessels (Phalanx, Draguas, Varanus), or the Temporal Science vessel (Korath).
Anything outside of this list is either a carrier, cross-faction or a BoP.... and by this i vote for the Fleet Norgh... (althought i own the Varanus and i really enjoy it, even if i stick to the support role more often than i'd wish to)
Actually, this is where you make your mistake.
The only thing you see in every ship is DPS, DPS, DPS. Which is understandable and damage output is what drives this game. But let's be realistic here... the Veranus has only a Lt TAC station and a Lt / Ens ENG station. Your offensive options are obviously limited.
However, as I've alluded to earlier, the Veranus is a superior supporting ship because of the Repair Platform Console. It is not a long cooldown ability. You can drop several platforms over time in the same map. The drones constantly repair hull. If the drones are lost, anytime a player goes within range of a platform, they get replacements and the repairs resume. The repairs are quite extensive heal-over-time, esp. when you have 4 drones. And you easily can be healing the entire team at the same time over the entire course of the mission if you read and predict the movements of your team right. All without using any BOFF abilities. And the platforms last for a long, long, LONG time. Not even Carriers have any units that repair hull. Even then, they can only spawn a limited number and they have long cooldowns even with good Aux Power (frigate level replacement rates). But the Repair Platforms can spawn hull repair drones for the entire team, something no carrier can ever do. There is absolutely nothing in this game that lets you do anything similar, for such a wide scope, for such an extended period of time, and sacrifice no BOFF or Captain abilities to do so.
And that is why in a pure support role, nothing comes close to the Veranus. That is why in such a role, the Repair Platform Console from the C-Store version makes it worthwhile in slotting it. What are you going to do anyways with a ship with Lt TAC? Ens & Lt ENG? Yeah, I'm quite sure you can slot in the console if you're building the ship up for pure support, without infringing in the 4 SCI Console Slots.
The Veranus has to be built for such a role because the BOFF seating gives no other possible route. That is a considerable factor if one picks the ship. If one accepts the support role and the limitations of the ship, it can perform well. If a player wants to do pure science and support, the Veranus is still competitive. If you want a Science Vessel that can still do something like TS3, APO, etc., than one needs to look elsewhere. Even a longtime user of the Veranus like myself can see that obviousness. But in what it can do, not much approaches the Veranus. The Repair Platform Console is well worth a slot and it allows the Veranus to do what no other ship in the game can... constantly applying a heal-over-time to the entire team without expending any BOFF, Captain, or Reputation Trait abilities.