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True Z-Axis Movement (It's NOT Tilting Nose Up or Down)
thetanine
Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
True z-axis moment is NOT pointing the fore or aft of your ship up or down in order to move straight up or down.
Z-Axis movement is your ship, remaining at zero degrees horizontal, moving straight up or straight down. If you put your hand out flat in front of you so you only see your thumb and first finger and without bending your wrist, move your hand up and down. You just achieved true z-axis movement.
Before you read any more of this post, it is essential that you understand the fundamental concept of linear movement. Click here for a 3-d graphic of the three planes of movement: LINK. Z-axis movement is movement of Elevation. In STO, this can only be a positive number, as the "deck" (the surface area created by joining x and y) is the lowest point our ships can attain. We can't go below the deck. You all know this by having the graphics in interstellar space turned on. In Fed space, the deck is blue. In Rom space, it's green. In Klingon space, it's red. Our ships all travel perpendicular to the plane of the "deck".
Now, having explained that, I'd like to suggest that most people, including dstahl in the past, have misconceived what true z-axis movement is all about. Dan Stahl always said no two ships should meet in Trek space where one is on another plane of movement as the other. He meant one ship should not be upside down or similarly out of skew with the other ship. And this is all fine and good.
However, true linear movement across all three axes should be possible for our ships, as long as they remain at or near 0 degrees, perpendicular to the deck of strategic or tactical space. We should be able to fight the bad guys in all three planes of movement, just like in "real" Star Trek. Take the Battle of the Mutara Nebula (Star Trek II) as an example. In this movie, Spock realized that Khan (Recardo Montabaln) mostly thought in X and Y plane geometry. However, Kirk was skilled at 3-dimensional combat as a Starfleet captain, this was par for the course. And so the Enterprise began moving up and down through the nebula, covering much more space, and eventually coming to directly at the aft of the Reliant.
Here is the Youtube of that scene: http://youtu.be/oqhTaEDv1dA?t=20s
Here we see Enterprise moving at Z+ (z axis up) to position behind Reliant. The results, as we know, were devastating to Khan and his crew.
And so, I hope you all on the forums might get behind this correct application of z-axis (as well as x and y axes) movement. Please post your responses.
Best regards,
T9
Z-Axis movement is your ship, remaining at zero degrees horizontal, moving straight up or straight down. If you put your hand out flat in front of you so you only see your thumb and first finger and without bending your wrist, move your hand up and down. You just achieved true z-axis movement.
Before you read any more of this post, it is essential that you understand the fundamental concept of linear movement. Click here for a 3-d graphic of the three planes of movement: LINK. Z-axis movement is movement of Elevation. In STO, this can only be a positive number, as the "deck" (the surface area created by joining x and y) is the lowest point our ships can attain. We can't go below the deck. You all know this by having the graphics in interstellar space turned on. In Fed space, the deck is blue. In Rom space, it's green. In Klingon space, it's red. Our ships all travel perpendicular to the plane of the "deck".
Now, having explained that, I'd like to suggest that most people, including dstahl in the past, have misconceived what true z-axis movement is all about. Dan Stahl always said no two ships should meet in Trek space where one is on another plane of movement as the other. He meant one ship should not be upside down or similarly out of skew with the other ship. And this is all fine and good.
However, true linear movement across all three axes should be possible for our ships, as long as they remain at or near 0 degrees, perpendicular to the deck of strategic or tactical space. We should be able to fight the bad guys in all three planes of movement, just like in "real" Star Trek. Take the Battle of the Mutara Nebula (Star Trek II) as an example. In this movie, Spock realized that Khan (Recardo Montabaln) mostly thought in X and Y plane geometry. However, Kirk was skilled at 3-dimensional combat as a Starfleet captain, this was par for the course. And so the Enterprise began moving up and down through the nebula, covering much more space, and eventually coming to directly at the aft of the Reliant.
Here is the Youtube of that scene: http://youtu.be/oqhTaEDv1dA?t=20s
Here we see Enterprise moving at Z+ (z axis up) to position behind Reliant. The results, as we know, were devastating to Khan and his crew.
And so, I hope you all on the forums might get behind this correct application of z-axis (as well as x and y axes) movement. Please post your responses.
Best regards,
T9
STAR TREK
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ax·es 1 (ksz)
n.
Plural of axis.
They've already said multiple times, since beta even, that true 3D movement will not happen in this game.
Why, you may ask? The engine. It's a much-massaged version of the 2D-with-altitude engine used way back in City of Heroes. That game was released in 2004, making the engine a few years older than that. I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's fifteen years old now.
Redoing the engine is a non-starter, as they might as well be creating a whole new game from scratch.
In short, while I agree that true 3D should be the motif, it never has been on the table, and this was already a dead subject four years ago.
No, it's a stylistic choice because they wanted to emulate the "tallship" combat from the TV shows. It had nothing to do with any imaginary engine limitations.
system Lord Baal is dead
If there was a way to realize more accurate flight physics, I for one would love it; most won't like the associated learning curve to adapt to it...
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Not to mention that new players would get lost in it.
im all for it if i recall right star trek bridge commander used the X Y Z Axis and i love that game far more than i do this one
only if it was not for years playing it modding it i might would go play again man modding that game was fun the stuff you could do in that game still tops 4 years of any thing sto has put out
system Lord Baal is dead
True 3D movement would involve there being no "up" or "down" at all, whereas right now, you can't turn the ship "upside down" or tilt it "sideways", and everything is in the same plane of flight. Same thing with the floaters...up is up and down is down, and never shall they be changed.
In other words, 2D with altitude.
And yes, it has been stated in the past that the engine was the limiting factor. The "feel" argument was offered up as an appeasement/distraction tactic to take the focus off the antiquated technology. It is, by itself, at least a plausible argument, but not the main reason it'll never happen. That would be the engine.
Let categorically deny this for the devs. This is absolutely FALSE. The movement scheme STO uses for the ships is a DESIGN DECISION the devs made for the game, period. It is NOT a limitation of the game engine (either the new Cryptic engine used for current games not the older, separate engine used in COH/COV). The limits for movement were ADDED to the base game engine. The devs made a conscious design decision to emulate MOST of the ship movement that we we see in the TV series and movies, the tall sailing ships feel. Yes, there are a few exceptions to that. But exceptions don't make the rule.
Now speaking for myself with my software developer, I've written a couple of 3d flight emulators for my own amusement back in the day (probably before you were born). Once you have the very bare-bones code for a working simulator, it's fully 3-d movement from the start: your position in space, the direction of the camera. I can fly in any direction or move in any axis in any direction to anywhere in my virtual space. No limits at all.
To do something like walking across a plane and keeping the level camera, or the +/- 75 degree yaw in the Z-axis and +/- 90 degree limits of the camera of STO, you have to add MORE code to the add those limits. That's right. You have to make things more complicated to limit movement in a a simulator.
In that case, I just want the devs to know that lockboxes and expensive fleet projects make me sick.
Rayzee
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torgaddon101
raeat
*Archives the thread next to the T5 Connie and Cryptic Hates Klingons files*
The OP is talking about vertical strafing in place.
Not a loop but ships going up and down in place. Like a stationary ship going down or up without having to be moving forward, backward, left, or right.
Just pure vertical lift and descent.
Yup. People don't read anymore... :rolleyes:
It would be convenient to move along the Z axis directly in some places, namely where Cryptic decided to place objectives at different heights on a map.
We are not toddlers: we understood it without the condescending example(s).
Besides, unless you're a Harriet with a Jump Jet, linear vertical movement is counter-intuitive for space ships.
Tldr: NO.
hmm then why do new players get lost in exploration missions?!?!?!
system Lord Baal is dead
Huh?! I dunno, cuz they're new players maybe?
but thats how every one is to a game they never played before but its one of the Dev reason for taking out content.... so idk bout ppl not being toddlers :P
system Lord Baal is dead
I think it would be nice as a console power, or a device like the Deuterium Surplus. A quick burn that allows you to rise up if your main engines are going forward or descend if they're in reverse. That's really the only application I can see making sense. We only ever see this sort of brief ascent with thrusters on screen, no ships ever perform the maneuver for any extended period.
sound more like a bugged mission than i got lost and you could have easley have hit the warp out button drop went for a new one..........
sorry the i got lost im never going to buy............
system Lord Baal is dead
This. Exactly this.
See: Champions Online where you can go straight up, straight down, and you can fly every single angle possible in between (and keep going that way with auto-run).
The Cryptic Engine completely supports it. It was a decision by Cryptic (and/or a CBS/Paramount mandate) why we have a limit as to why we can only go up/down by a certain angle, and why we can't just 'go' straight up and down. I for one would love the ability to do so.
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same for DS9 seems i recall ships being like VOY in big fleet battles meaning up down all over the place
to be frank only place i can think of doing tall ship battles was really kirk days
system Lord Baal is dead
I was thinking the same
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Thanks Regina. I feel like I've done a lot if I've impressed you.
I should have not put the timestamp at 30 seconds though...the Enterprise moves z-up much more at 20 seconds, and onward.