They are removing them because......
It's easy, we will complain but still be here, there's no other ST MMo out there.....I realy can't be bothered the devs have had this planned for months before release what we say doesn't matter, most here are long time players and we aren't their market, they want new quick profit turn over players. Switch on queue a PvE pay to by pass their time gates move on.... Long term players interested in the game development come second to short term profit.....
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
That may be true of someone who has only just taken an interest, but I've been reasonable about it for years. Feeling pretty darn indignant now. Yup.
If you were reasonable you'd still be. The situation has not changed with STO, what has is only that exploration reached a point where the old system had to go in light of complications with a higher priority revamp. It would be nice if they could drop all other priorities and focus exclusively on a pet project of yours or mine but of course they have a different view. They have different priorities and though we might not agree with them, we should at least try to see them as THAT is at the heart of reasonability in this circumstance.
Its not all about what we want, the functional needs of the game and its population count too.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
If you were reasonable you'd still be. The situation has not changed with STO, what has is only that exploration reached a point where the old system had to go in light of complications with a higher priority revamp. It would be nice if they could drop all other priorities and focus exclusively on a pet project of yours or mine but of course they have a different view. They have different priorities and though we might not agree with them, we should at least try to see them as THAT is at the heart of reasonability in this circumstance.
Its not all about what we want, the functional needs of the game and its population count too.
Nope. This is the third time crafting has been revamped (pretty sure it's the third anyway); while exploration has received no attention at all. There were always vague assurances that it would get the attention it deserved someday, and that was good enough (besides badgering them about it in every 'Ask Cryptic' thread that I was around for).
I put a great deal of thought into suggestions for what that revamp might eventually look like, and I tried to show support for other peoples ideas on the subject to encourage that sort of thing.
I remained optimistic about STO regardless of the direction it was taking; and, like you are now, tried to be a voice of reason when things got heated on the forums (or at least play devil's advocate to try and produce a more balanced and constructive discussion).
I did all this because I could wait. Even if it was the last thing they ever got around to, they'd have to give the clusters some love eventually; there only are so many features to fix up. This meant I could remain optimistic in the face of almost anything. If that revamp never came, I'd probably have kept right on naively waiting, and pointlessly offering helpful little suggestions, until the servers shut down.
Now they are just taking the clusters away, and telling us to go play the Foundry instead. That is not good enough. Not only do I think it's a really bad move for the game, and disrespectful to both the players and the franchise, but I'm actually taking it personally.
I feel personally betrayed by Cryptic. It's stupid and irrational, I freely admit, but there it is.
Nope. This is the third time crafting has been revamped (pretty sure it's the third anyway); while exploration has received no attention at all. There were always vague assurances that it would get the attention it deserved someday, and that was good enough (besides badgering them about it in every 'Ask Cryptic' thread that I was around for).
No, this is the Fourth.
Original / V1: Crafting was Common equipment + Data Samples
V2: Crafting system revised and Crafting XP ceiling was raised. (Those who maxed original system had a head start as their XP added to the new system, giving them a head start). Common gear in crafting recipes was removed, crafting became Data Samples + Particle Traces. Defera Crafting added.
V3: Addition of Unreplicatable Materials which came with the change to Free to Play
I haven't lost hope. But my cynicism is bubbling to the forefront here and I'm VERY wary. The company's track record to create content is not good so seeing a dev hang their hat on a phrase like current mission standards makes me want to rant and rage. Because of their history of mission making standards. Not just in this game. Heh.
This ^, given the complexity of some of the newer missions, I'm having trouble seeing much difference between them and the cluster missions.
Point and click, kill everything that moves, run over here click this.. ect. ect.
It's all there in both cluster missions and the newer missions. The cluster missions have their bugs, but so do some of the newer missions too. So it can't be because of bugs either.
I mean, I hear the Undine infiltration voice overs everytime I change a map. Maybe it's next to go then?
Do I think that troves of newer players are getting lost in the clusters? Jeeze, It wasn't THAT long ago when I was a new player myself, don't recall getting hopefully lost in them.
I do get confused navigating the Galaxy map occasionally, even to this day, (I'm embarrassed to say), and I bet new players do too. Does that mean we should get rid of the rest of the galaxy too?
So, one guess is as good as any other. Maybe Cryptic doesn't want people farming crafting materials, maybe they want to force us to do other things.... like PVP maybe.
But I'm just not buying the explanation. And I say that with all due respect.
They aren't confusing in their own right. They're just distracting.
They didn't say distracting. They said confusing.
STO's success is dependent on getting people to play and stay with the game. That's easier when new players are subjected to the best content, as that raises their impression of STO and sets their hopes for more of the same with later stuff. Exploration clusters however are peppered throughout the game and can be easily entered by any level player.
So can patrols and enemy contacts. They suffer from the same lack of quality. They're all still there.
However can cryptic improve it at some reasonable standard of quality in time for it to be reimplemented for the crafting revamp (which is what precipitated this after all)?
Also, you don't see the pure hypocrisy in this? For them to claim that the missions aren't up to standards of quality that they don't have? They don't put out quality content that lives up to high standards. And they have never been about to put out content consistently. So for them to drape themselves in this idea that these missions are low quality when they can go more than 12 months at a time without creating a SINGLE new piece of content is completely ludicrous. How can you buy into that?
You don't even remember Gozer? The dev who claimed Section 31 uniforms counted as the company putting out new content? He actually said that, in these forums, in a post, when arguing that the company was putting out content?
You're going to buy into the idea that this company is now putting out quality content?
I haven't lost hope. But my cynicism is bubbling to the forefront here and I'm VERY wary.
I can only hope that you will remember this feeling .
I say this as both you and Crypticarmsman have both "crossed sword" with me in the past over my critical POV's of Cryptic's latest shenanigans .
This isn't an "I told you so" , but rather a hope that you remember what this company is about .
What it's really about .
And that won't change with the introduction of X2 (which I'm sure will have good stuff in it) .
So can patrols and enemy contacts. They suffer from the same lack of quality. They're all still there.
For now ... .
Their only saving grace is that they offer mindless violence ... , which is perfectly in line with Cryptic's "standards of quality" as far as Star Trek is concerned .
I can only hope that you will remember this feeling .
I say this as both you and Crypticarmsman have both "crossed sword" with me in the past over my critical POV's of Cryptic's latest shenanigans .
It's been four years of fun and warp speed. There's times we agree. Times we disagree. But in terms of all the players I've shared time with in this game, and on these forums, I always try to remember that at the very heart of it all is Star Trek. We all like Star Trek at least a little or we wouldn't be playing this particular game.
So even when we disagree on something, there's still that Star Trek thing that I try to keep in mind and keep me grounded.
Apparently the idea of procedurally generated content and exploring a vast universe isn't dead. It's just living somewhere else, being handled by a company that can make more than lockboxes.
It might fail (as is often the case with new games). But hey, at least someone out there is trying.
The same way players were getting lost trying to find the Admirals office on ESD when the damn thing had a big flippin sign over it and was the first thing they saw when they beamed aboard ESD.
Did you ever go to the old ESD?
Because it was nowhere near the first thing you saw when you beamed aboard, you first beamed into an enclosed transporter room, then leaving that room you entered if I remember right the starship hub where all the ship selectors etc were, you then had to exit that area to the right, follow the curve of the starbase to the next area and it was there on the left just past the exchange, mail and banks etc.
I'll be honest I was one of the ones who were constantly getting lost on ESD, but I still remember how to get to the admirals office, it was once you got past the admirals office where you had that series of corridors with doors that did nothing (just like the second or third level in the new ESD not the mezzanine one) that I kept getting lost in, I could never find my way back to the turbo lift and had to keep beaming out top start over lol.
The same way players were getting lost trying to find the Admirals office on ESD when the damn thing had a big flippin sign over it and was the first thing they saw when they beamed aboard ESD.
NEVER underestimate how oblivious to the obvious players can be.
Or the ability of a community to miss the point.
"Lost" probably wasn't the best way to put it, if indeed cryptic put it that way. What exploration sectors were was simply distracting. They could pull players in from better content that much more directly contributed to their experience progression (ie. learning what STO is and how to play it) and slap them with blank sector maps and miscellaneous exploration assignments that didn't compare well at all with ANY OTHER PIECE OF CONTENT THIS GAME HAS or even connect to it in any meaningful way.
For people who have seen and done everything heading out into the boonies of STO has some appeal, but not for those looking to get into the game. That is the sense of lost here, people may have known where they were and how to get out but they probably didn't see the point or value of their location (which for a dev is a very bad thing indeed.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Been playing since open beta 2010. The type of unobservant player that couldn't find the Admirals office that was right in front of them with a huge flippin sign next to it can easily get lost in one of the exploration star clusters.
These lost players are the same people you find in the real world staring at a turned off escalator complaining that they can't get to the floor above/below while everyone else walks past them and uses it as a staircase.
These are the same people that can't follow the simplest directions even when they are written in front of them, or explained to them step by step.
These people are the reason IT support asks questions like "Is the device plugged in?" and "Is the device turned on?"
These people are the reason why the military has "Front Towards Enemy" on claymore mines.
I'm not disputing any of that, just your knowledge of the old ESD, because going by your statement it seems to me you didn't know where the admirals office was in the first place, unless you were just exaggerating when you said "the first thing they saw when they beamed aboard ESD", because that office wasn't directly in front of where you beamed in (unless there's been two revamps of ESD since I played right at the beginning).
I think this whole "lost in exploration" issue is people taking PWE's words far to literally, they didn't mean physically lost as in could not get out, they were getting "lost" as in their direction in t game, they were missing out on major content because they were getting distracted by exploration.
Comments
It's easy, we will complain but still be here, there's no other ST MMo out there.....I realy can't be bothered the devs have had this planned for months before release what we say doesn't matter, most here are long time players and we aren't their market, they want new quick profit turn over players. Switch on queue a PvE pay to by pass their time gates move on.... Long term players interested in the game development come second to short term profit.....
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
If you were reasonable you'd still be. The situation has not changed with STO, what has is only that exploration reached a point where the old system had to go in light of complications with a higher priority revamp. It would be nice if they could drop all other priorities and focus exclusively on a pet project of yours or mine but of course they have a different view. They have different priorities and though we might not agree with them, we should at least try to see them as THAT is at the heart of reasonability in this circumstance.
Its not all about what we want, the functional needs of the game and its population count too.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Nope. This is the third time crafting has been revamped (pretty sure it's the third anyway); while exploration has received no attention at all. There were always vague assurances that it would get the attention it deserved someday, and that was good enough (besides badgering them about it in every 'Ask Cryptic' thread that I was around for).
I put a great deal of thought into suggestions for what that revamp might eventually look like, and I tried to show support for other peoples ideas on the subject to encourage that sort of thing.
I remained optimistic about STO regardless of the direction it was taking; and, like you are now, tried to be a voice of reason when things got heated on the forums (or at least play devil's advocate to try and produce a more balanced and constructive discussion).
I did all this because I could wait. Even if it was the last thing they ever got around to, they'd have to give the clusters some love eventually; there only are so many features to fix up. This meant I could remain optimistic in the face of almost anything. If that revamp never came, I'd probably have kept right on naively waiting, and pointlessly offering helpful little suggestions, until the servers shut down.
Now they are just taking the clusters away, and telling us to go play the Foundry instead. That is not good enough. Not only do I think it's a really bad move for the game, and disrespectful to both the players and the franchise, but I'm actually taking it personally.
I feel personally betrayed by Cryptic. It's stupid and irrational, I freely admit, but there it is.
So this once, I'm going to go with indignation.
No, this is the Fourth.
Original / V1: Crafting was Common equipment + Data Samples
V2: Crafting system revised and Crafting XP ceiling was raised. (Those who maxed original system had a head start as their XP added to the new system, giving them a head start). Common gear in crafting recipes was removed, crafting became Data Samples + Particle Traces. Defera Crafting added.
V3: Addition of Unreplicatable Materials which came with the change to Free to Play
V4: Season 9.5 Crafting Revamp.
This ^, given the complexity of some of the newer missions, I'm having trouble seeing much difference between them and the cluster missions.
Point and click, kill everything that moves, run over here click this.. ect. ect.
It's all there in both cluster missions and the newer missions. The cluster missions have their bugs, but so do some of the newer missions too. So it can't be because of bugs either.
I mean, I hear the Undine infiltration voice overs everytime I change a map. Maybe it's next to go then?
Do I think that troves of newer players are getting lost in the clusters? Jeeze, It wasn't THAT long ago when I was a new player myself, don't recall getting hopefully lost in them.
I do get confused navigating the Galaxy map occasionally, even to this day, (I'm embarrassed to say), and I bet new players do too. Does that mean we should get rid of the rest of the galaxy too?
So, one guess is as good as any other. Maybe Cryptic doesn't want people farming crafting materials, maybe they want to force us to do other things.... like PVP maybe.
But I'm just not buying the explanation. And I say that with all due respect.
They didn't say distracting. They said confusing.
So can patrols and enemy contacts. They suffer from the same lack of quality. They're all still there.
Also, you don't see the pure hypocrisy in this? For them to claim that the missions aren't up to standards of quality that they don't have? They don't put out quality content that lives up to high standards. And they have never been about to put out content consistently. So for them to drape themselves in this idea that these missions are low quality when they can go more than 12 months at a time without creating a SINGLE new piece of content is completely ludicrous. How can you buy into that?
You don't even remember Gozer? The dev who claimed Section 31 uniforms counted as the company putting out new content? He actually said that, in these forums, in a post, when arguing that the company was putting out content?
You're going to buy into the idea that this company is now putting out quality content?
I ... I'm stunned.
Like with Demo Record , they no longer have the ppl who know how it works and they don't know how to fix / upgrade it ?
Hey ... everybody's throwing in their 5 cents ... .
I can only hope that you will remember this feeling .
I say this as both you and Crypticarmsman have both "crossed sword" with me in the past over my critical POV's of Cryptic's latest shenanigans .
This isn't an "I told you so" , but rather a hope that you remember what this company is about .
What it's really about .
And that won't change with the introduction of X2 (which I'm sure will have good stuff in it) .
For now ... .
Their only saving grace is that they offer mindless violence ... , which is perfectly in line with Cryptic's "standards of quality" as far as Star Trek is concerned .
It's been four years of fun and warp speed. There's times we agree. Times we disagree. But in terms of all the players I've shared time with in this game, and on these forums, I always try to remember that at the very heart of it all is Star Trek. We all like Star Trek at least a little or we wouldn't be playing this particular game.
So even when we disagree on something, there's still that Star Trek thing that I try to keep in mind and keep me grounded.
It works most of the time.
Yes. Thanks to Grantland and this article.
Apparently the idea of procedurally generated content and exploring a vast universe isn't dead. It's just living somewhere else, being handled by a company that can make more than lockboxes.
It might fail (as is often the case with new games). But hey, at least someone out there is trying.
Did you ever go to the old ESD?
Because it was nowhere near the first thing you saw when you beamed aboard, you first beamed into an enclosed transporter room, then leaving that room you entered if I remember right the starship hub where all the ship selectors etc were, you then had to exit that area to the right, follow the curve of the starbase to the next area and it was there on the left just past the exchange, mail and banks etc.
I'll be honest I was one of the ones who were constantly getting lost on ESD, but I still remember how to get to the admirals office, it was once you got past the admirals office where you had that series of corridors with doors that did nothing (just like the second or third level in the new ESD not the mezzanine one) that I kept getting lost in, I could never find my way back to the turbo lift and had to keep beaming out top start over lol.
Or the ability of a community to miss the point.
"Lost" probably wasn't the best way to put it, if indeed cryptic put it that way. What exploration sectors were was simply distracting. They could pull players in from better content that much more directly contributed to their experience progression (ie. learning what STO is and how to play it) and slap them with blank sector maps and miscellaneous exploration assignments that didn't compare well at all with ANY OTHER PIECE OF CONTENT THIS GAME HAS or even connect to it in any meaningful way.
For people who have seen and done everything heading out into the boonies of STO has some appeal, but not for those looking to get into the game. That is the sense of lost here, people may have known where they were and how to get out but they probably didn't see the point or value of their location (which for a dev is a very bad thing indeed.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'm not disputing any of that, just your knowledge of the old ESD, because going by your statement it seems to me you didn't know where the admirals office was in the first place, unless you were just exaggerating when you said "the first thing they saw when they beamed aboard ESD", because that office wasn't directly in front of where you beamed in (unless there's been two revamps of ESD since I played right at the beginning).
I think this whole "lost in exploration" issue is people taking PWE's words far to literally, they didn't mean physically lost as in could not get out, they were getting "lost" as in their direction in t game, they were missing out on major content because they were getting distracted by exploration.