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Crafting at First Glance: Failure to understand the assignment
jnohd
Member Posts: 5 Arc User
I'm still hopeful that upper levels open up more interesting results, but at the beginning, were I grading this system, I would assign it an "I" for incomplete, followed by "See me" and "Failure to understand the assignment" would prominently be scrawled in red pen.
Where to begin:
Crafting, for the most part, has traditionally contained some Platonic elements, things that basically define a crafting system in an MMO. I do recognize Cryptic likes to play fast and loose with the "rules" that define MMOGs, but the results - fun for a particular player type, are still important... at least to my house's resident crafter, who sits behind me grinding away on nearly every MMOGs crafting system and has over my shoulder offered only a resounding "meh" on this latest attempt by Cryptic. (She seemed to briefly like Neverwinter's system, by the way, though I'm unsure what the differences are here)
1. Gathering. Sometimes this is outside the actual crafting system, but in general its not hard to get right: go out, get stuff; and Cryptic has at least done this right, and uniquely with the waveform minigames, etc.
2. Refinement: Cryptic has in the past done a fairly decent job with refinement systems, in Champions Online (which has only some very basic crafting ideas, and is an incomplete system imho). I had hoped to see the Champions refinement system make an appearance somewhere in this system. Refinement of raw materials isn't always "fun" in an MMO (and is often just a time sink), but CO's refinement is more in line with refining old, low-level components or modules into next-level modules, and as such helps ensure even starter items retain some value. Why I see no sign of that system in STO is confusing, it seemed to be a decent element to a "Cryptic-style crafting system"
3. Customization: This is the big one missed in what I have seen so far, including what I see in screenshots of higher level crafting interface and items. Cryptic has a system already in the way of Kits that I fully expected to make an appearance in Crafting for STO. To me, a lack of Customization - meaning some method of controlling the result's characteristics (CritD, CritH, DMG, ACC, etc) - makes this little more than an overly complex LOOT system! Where this disconnects the most from the expectation I held (and the main reason I say "failure to understand the assignment") is the fact that many of my friends and I hoped the new Kit system was exactly what we asked for: customized traits (abilities). I do understand that this results in a fear that loot is useless (as opposed to crafting being useless), and balance can be an issue. In some way I had expected ALL items to be slotted - Loot a blue disruptor cannon, and it has 2 (filled) suffix slots ([CrtD]x2, say). CO has this, with at least some of its loot, as does NW. This would be a HUGE endeavor, no doubt, to convert all tables to drop slotted items... but, honestly, that's what I thought we were waiting so long for! Not for a revamp just of how we craft, but WHAT we craft, and most importantly, why. I would even get behind the idea that, in order to make loot still useful, Crafted items represented a "Prefix" for items (the same way "Nanite" does, for example), So a "Crafted Disruptor Cannon" of blue quality would not have 2 slots for modules, but instead have only 1. This would of course mean that all Crafted items have a specific built-in trait. Combined with "slotted" loot and rewards instead of locked-in ones (akin to kits), it adds "crafted" to the choices we could make, enriching the game, not taking away from one or the other. Add crafted modules to this, with some kind of quality to them, and... well, then even I might craft.
4. Research/Salvage: I have always found crafting systems with some way of tearing down loot and trash for some kind of crafting material and/or chance at a crafting "recipe" to be the most rewarding (ymmv). If, for example, loot and reward items do NOT have slots, ripping them apart for a shot at getting one of their suffix modules ([ACC], [DMG], [CrtD], [CrtH], [Borg], [Dot3], [KB2], etc), or a chance to learn how to make the Prefix type ("You salvaged Research: Nanite disruptor weapons", then go to Memory Alpha and run doff assignment which requires that research thingy for Nanite weapons with chance of failure to unlock them in crafting?) means everything you loot or receive as reward has a shot of being useful, not JUST vendor trash for EC. Considering Star Trek spends a great deal of time showing us on-screen people researching and learning from what they have found (looted) in order to gain new ways of approaching things (new recipes) or new ways to modify existing systems (modules/suffixes?), I really hoped Cryptic would build on that tradition for STO crafting!
A quick word on "gambling" with Dilithium: I've already sunk time into gathering and waiting for assignments to complete. Dilithium (the direct translation of Time in game to a Currency) should NEVER be wasted on something that may result in failure. I would instead look to the Champions Online catalyst system! Spend Dilithium to remove the chance of failure ONLY. Alternatively, spend Dilithium to regain materials on failure, either way something is always gained from Dilithium expenditure. It should simply *never* be that Dilithium spent may result in nothing gained.
I hope much of what I had expected shows up as we go on testing, but I'm not holding my breath.
Where to begin:
Crafting, for the most part, has traditionally contained some Platonic elements, things that basically define a crafting system in an MMO. I do recognize Cryptic likes to play fast and loose with the "rules" that define MMOGs, but the results - fun for a particular player type, are still important... at least to my house's resident crafter, who sits behind me grinding away on nearly every MMOGs crafting system and has over my shoulder offered only a resounding "meh" on this latest attempt by Cryptic. (She seemed to briefly like Neverwinter's system, by the way, though I'm unsure what the differences are here)
1. Gathering. Sometimes this is outside the actual crafting system, but in general its not hard to get right: go out, get stuff; and Cryptic has at least done this right, and uniquely with the waveform minigames, etc.
2. Refinement: Cryptic has in the past done a fairly decent job with refinement systems, in Champions Online (which has only some very basic crafting ideas, and is an incomplete system imho). I had hoped to see the Champions refinement system make an appearance somewhere in this system. Refinement of raw materials isn't always "fun" in an MMO (and is often just a time sink), but CO's refinement is more in line with refining old, low-level components or modules into next-level modules, and as such helps ensure even starter items retain some value. Why I see no sign of that system in STO is confusing, it seemed to be a decent element to a "Cryptic-style crafting system"
3. Customization: This is the big one missed in what I have seen so far, including what I see in screenshots of higher level crafting interface and items. Cryptic has a system already in the way of Kits that I fully expected to make an appearance in Crafting for STO. To me, a lack of Customization - meaning some method of controlling the result's characteristics (CritD, CritH, DMG, ACC, etc) - makes this little more than an overly complex LOOT system! Where this disconnects the most from the expectation I held (and the main reason I say "failure to understand the assignment") is the fact that many of my friends and I hoped the new Kit system was exactly what we asked for: customized traits (abilities). I do understand that this results in a fear that loot is useless (as opposed to crafting being useless), and balance can be an issue. In some way I had expected ALL items to be slotted - Loot a blue disruptor cannon, and it has 2 (filled) suffix slots ([CrtD]x2, say). CO has this, with at least some of its loot, as does NW. This would be a HUGE endeavor, no doubt, to convert all tables to drop slotted items... but, honestly, that's what I thought we were waiting so long for! Not for a revamp just of how we craft, but WHAT we craft, and most importantly, why. I would even get behind the idea that, in order to make loot still useful, Crafted items represented a "Prefix" for items (the same way "Nanite" does, for example), So a "Crafted Disruptor Cannon" of blue quality would not have 2 slots for modules, but instead have only 1. This would of course mean that all Crafted items have a specific built-in trait. Combined with "slotted" loot and rewards instead of locked-in ones (akin to kits), it adds "crafted" to the choices we could make, enriching the game, not taking away from one or the other. Add crafted modules to this, with some kind of quality to them, and... well, then even I might craft.
4. Research/Salvage: I have always found crafting systems with some way of tearing down loot and trash for some kind of crafting material and/or chance at a crafting "recipe" to be the most rewarding (ymmv). If, for example, loot and reward items do NOT have slots, ripping them apart for a shot at getting one of their suffix modules ([ACC], [DMG], [CrtD], [CrtH], [Borg], [Dot3], [KB2], etc), or a chance to learn how to make the Prefix type ("You salvaged Research: Nanite disruptor weapons", then go to Memory Alpha and run doff assignment which requires that research thingy for Nanite weapons with chance of failure to unlock them in crafting?) means everything you loot or receive as reward has a shot of being useful, not JUST vendor trash for EC. Considering Star Trek spends a great deal of time showing us on-screen people researching and learning from what they have found (looted) in order to gain new ways of approaching things (new recipes) or new ways to modify existing systems (modules/suffixes?), I really hoped Cryptic would build on that tradition for STO crafting!
A quick word on "gambling" with Dilithium: I've already sunk time into gathering and waiting for assignments to complete. Dilithium (the direct translation of Time in game to a Currency) should NEVER be wasted on something that may result in failure. I would instead look to the Champions Online catalyst system! Spend Dilithium to remove the chance of failure ONLY. Alternatively, spend Dilithium to regain materials on failure, either way something is always gained from Dilithium expenditure. It should simply *never* be that Dilithium spent may result in nothing gained.
I hope much of what I had expected shows up as we go on testing, but I'm not holding my breath.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
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Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Post edited by jnohd on
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Comments
I think you hit the nail on the head right here. I don't see crafting when I look at this system. I see Diablo 2's gambling mechanic, gated behind supply, time, crafting level, and dilithium requirements. Sure, you might get something nifty within a certain category. You probably won't.
Like you, I was seriously hoping for something that would permit a great deal of control and tinkering with equipment, along with the ability to search for plans and unique modifiers that would allow me to build new types of gear.
Still holding my breath that that can still happen.
I completely agree. I have always been a crafter in every MMO I've ever played. When I played Dark Age of Camelot, I had a character who was a legendary weaponcrafter AND legendary armorsmith. My ex-wife, who was a legendary spellcrafter, could choose what the exact stats were that we wanted on each item and spellcraft them. it wasn't random, the choice was given to us.
From a company that says they specialize in giving their customers choices, I'm completely baffled by this decision Cryptic has made regarding crafting. I have been looking forward to a crafting revamp for years (I've played since Head Start), and when it finally comes, I find myself disappointed by what we're given. I honestly don't see myself using this mechanic very much, and from someone who loves crafting, that says a lot.
Cryptic, we really need the ability to choose what stats we want on any given item. The stats we want should determine what materials we use in crafting the item. As an example, the base item (let's say, a beam array) should require the same kind of materials and cost the same amount for everyone. But the remaining material costs should vary based upon what stats we want the item to have. The higher quality item you are trying to make, the more mats it will cost because you are trying to add more stats to the base item.
I also ardently oppose the quality of the item being random. In Dark Age, the quality of the item was random, which did determine the amount of stats you could spellcraft on that item. The difference between Dark Age and STO is that in Dark Age, the performance of a 99% quality item would be close to that of a 100% quality item in terms of the amount of stats you could spellcraft into the crafted item (but obviously not the same); the amount obviously rightly diminishes as the quality drops further. Whereas in STO, there's a big difference in performance between uncommon and rare, and rare and very rare (you're missing an entire bonus stat, as opposed to having the same amount of bonus stats albeit with a lower stat performance).
If it were me, I would have the quality of the item be dependent upon how many stats you are trying to put onto the item, not based on a chance. Where random chance should come into play is whether or not you craft the item successfully. For example, the more stats you try to craft into the item, the more difficult it is to achieve a success in crafting that item (depending upon your skill level in that tree). This is somewhat similar to how Dark Age did it in terms of the percent quality of the item, in addition to how you would sometimes fail to make the item if you're crafting something that is around your skill level (or higher) in the tree you are trying to craft from.
We also definitely need a salvage mechanic. On Tribble currently, the EC sell value of crafted items is very low. Either the EC sell value needs to be increased to offset the mats cost, or we need to be able to salvage some of the mats we used from a crafted item. Salvaging is a standard crafting ability in MMOs, and I don't see why STO should be an exception.