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Tribble Maintenance and Release Notes - June 19, 2014

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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    a purple doff should be a guaranty of a purple item. let blue or lower be a gamble, i think that's reasonable
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    a purple doff should be a guaranty of a purple item. let blue or lower be a gamble, i think that's reasonable
    At 20K minerals, even a purple item you can't select the mods on is a waste. Generic purple stuff isn't THAT expensive that I would care to waste 20K on some random [Dmg]x3 POS.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • john98837john98837 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    At 20K minerals, even a purple item you can't select the mods on is a waste. Generic purple stuff isn't THAT expensive that I would care to waste 20K on some random [Dmg]x3 POS.

    That right there is the problem, with such a high dil cost it is not reasonable to expect us to gamble on the mods. At the higher levels should be able to at the very least guarantee an x2, with a good chance of an x3 of the mod we want.

    As it stands can't see wasting resources on this crafting system, except to get the various traits if they are not able to be bought on the exchange.
  • taya4svktaya4svk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Will there be any kind of replacement for the exploration missions in the foreseeable future?

    Oh thats something I forgot to include in my post..
    What about the exploation accolades we got going on, but doing slowly?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • taya4svktaya4svk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    If Cryptic needs more revenue from Dilithium they should also nerf Starbase and holdings invites.

    Nothing else in the game has brought more hurt to small fleets.

    Create a low tier base provision, ask for a SB invite, instead of grinding for Dilithium to put into SB and Holding projects.

    I had to reply to this, even though its few pages back.
    THAT is pure fabrication. For all I know, it helps smaller fleets to be able to get invites to higher tier ones and shop there.
    I am from small fleet and never even though about just buying provisions and leaving it at that. Were progressing slowly, especially when upgrade hits (around 700k dili is a lot for few ppl to pull together, and thats not as much as we will need later on). But were getting there.

    Sure there are fleet that do just what you described, but its mostly "bank" fleets, that are used for alts, not real fleets.. Real fleet wouldnt be just a shell..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Well what can I say, Cryptic, (golf clapping) you managed to make an already bad system even worse!

    Not only that, you sprinkled your lovely horribleness all over Heretics Doff system too!!!

    Yay??....

    Suffice to say, crafting is stillborn as already said. Not worth bothering with when reputation gets guaranteed results.

    Oh, and stop hiking up prices in old systems to make your new system seem better. It never works and just makes you look silly....
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    Okay so I've had a look at the crafting stuff on tribble and would like to highlight some major issues that I've noticed.

    1) The dilithium cost is extortionate. There is no way it should cost this much dil for a gamble at something that may or may not be any good.

    2) We can't even choose the modifiers for the items, which is pretty lame, but I would like to know why because surely I would be able to tell my crew what I expect them to tune the equipment for....

    3) Might be an idea for when you max a school, but could we have the opportunity to reverse-engineer technology we pick up in the field to add them to the list of stuff we can craft? For example, what if I pick up a Voth Sniper Rifle, could I reverse-engineer this to get that type of antiproton energy type and the look of the weapon?

    You could even make it so we can get some rare procs from stuff in-game, like the psi proc off the lirpa from Hearts and Minds, just as an example, or even polarised disruptor energy types. It would add a dilithium and ec sink to get people collecting stuff to add to their repertoire.

    4) Why are there no melee weapons in the ground weapons school?

    5) What is going to happen to the Alien Artefact console creation mission, because isn't that going to be made rather redundant with this update?

    6) Is there really much point differentiating beams and cannons when they have a lot of similar stuff between the two schools such as the consoles? Surely it would be better to amalgamate them into one and combine the trait to energy weapon damage in general?

    7) It may just be me but two pieces of the aegis set, engine and deflector, don't seem to be available.

    I'd appreciate a response so we have some idea as to the intentions behind these faults, but the one I'm most interested in is the potential of reverse-engineering gear, perhaps also being able to choose modifers, otherwise this is going to be far from competitive.

    8) Do you actually plan to put a tier progression bar at the top of each school so we can see what we unlock as we go along, assuming there is anything to be unlocked?

    EDIT: Just an after-thought, but if you guys are revamping Memory Alpha, could we get some shooting ranges for both ground and space so we can set drones to either be shot at or let us shoot them so we can test gear we make conveniently in a controlled environment?
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • arrmateysarrmateys Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    the only way i can see the random rarity gamble to work is if the catalysts will change those.

    for example, a rather cheap one use item or a multiple use unique doff that will probably go for 10+ million on exchange could go there, and increase the chance of very rare item by a percent relative to their rarity, so white would be +25%, green +50%, blue +75% and purple automatic 100% to get a very rare.

    same for modifiers, another catalyst could ensure you'll get at least one if not more specific modifiers of your chosing.

    which probably won't happen. at most the catalysts will probably increase the critical success chance by something useless like 5-10%, if even that.
    Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the cr​ap out of me.
    We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
    We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
  • makimera#4641 makimera Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    so what about the stats one has in the old crafting system? will it carry over to the new? or are we forced to start over like you did when you introduced the reputation system?
  • suavekssuaveks Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Star Cluster maps are no longer available to access for all factions.
    The associated Exploration missions have also been removed.
    I really, really hope the focus of Expansion 2 will be a revamped Exploration content, because otherwise you've just killed what SUPPOSED to be one of the points of playing a Star Trek game.

    Granted, exploration content sucked, but I really hope you're planning to expand it, rather than just kill it completely.

    (Or were the exploration missions too good of a source for crafting materials that you've just had to nerf them?)
    PyKDqad.jpg
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    • Dilithium tax
    • Random quality chance
    • Random [modifier] chance
    • Clunky UI
    • Time gating
    • Unfathomable addition of a new crafting stage (old system: Materials -> Craft desired item. New system: Materials -> Craft useless middleman objects -> Craft desired item)

    Oh yeah, the new crafting system is dead on arrival. But wait there's more! Now there's collateral damage in the form of removing exploration clusters and all of their associated content and doffing and bridge invites, and destroying the Doff UI, now powered by children's Mega Bloks(TM).

    Who needs pertinent information when you can have GIANT SCREEN WASTING BLOCKS instead!!? Too much information can easily overload the feeble or undeveloped mind. Protect your children today by only displaying FOUR large assignments on your 1080p monitor.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • speedystrekspeedystrek Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    taya4svk wrote: »
    I am not going through all the 15 pages, that were written since yesterday.
    I had a look on tribble, tried some R&D, had a look at assignments, clusters (DV).

    R&D looks a lot like NW crafting. Takes a lot of time and resources to kick it up to higher levels, I will probably just skip crafting things through it.

    Clusters, ok you made them just interactable points, which will KILL cell/tuffli use for colonization chains and assignments in them. Now, everyone has to fly to the point separately. Do you hate cooperation so much? Why not make it just an empty map with a nebula in it, so bridge invites will be possible?

    And now, the last and worst part. New UI on doff assignments. It is just bad, very, very bad. The old way (currently on holodeck) is fine, didnt need any changing. Now the window is cluttered with TRIBBLE and cant quickly scan through available assignments to see whether there is the one I need. When choosing doffs, I cant see which traits they have (if there are any for crit or failure), only when doff is assigned, the traits light up (when there are any viable for that mission).

    All in all, I dont mind the change in crafting, havent done it in long time. But the clusters and new UI should require additional work, even changing UI on doff assignments to the old one would be better. Dont try too hard changing things that are working.

    Signed! :D

    I´m one of the few how still make Consoles out of Artefact's and load them to.
    And not that you only change the UI what don´t need a change, no now I don´t see any skills of my DO´s as well, see here . You are right its not necessary to know what my DO´s can to or not so long they show there Crafting Skill value. :mad: :confused: Please change it to the old one or make it optional.

    I also changed the Particle to charge the Artefact's. Well a had 33 each of all 10 necessary items and changed all of them. I expected to get the same quantity to charge my 33 Artefact's. But no, it is barely enough to charge 6! Why, because the rare Particle are only changed randomly to all kind of the new Particle.
    Here is my result. Why is there a mix of particle?
    And please change the change window so I don´t have to change each particle one by one.

    I´m really sorry, but so far I don´t see anything good coming out of S 9.5! Oh yes less particle! Oh what did not see the X new items from the new R&D! :cool:

    PS: Please excuse my English, I´m German ^^
    7mf4rl12.png
  • suavekssuaveks Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    GIANT SCREEN WASTING BLOCKS instead!!?
    Look on the bright side - giant screen wasting blocks and buttons usually scream "mobile".

    As in, STO Gateway doffing and crafting, perhaps? I wouldn't mind.

    As for the rest - yeah, no, not a big fan. I knew they'd put everything behind tax-walls, pay-walls and time-walls, RNG, and add some new power creep to "motivate" players to invest in the new system, instead of just ignoring it.
    PyKDqad.jpg
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    So what we get with the new Doff-implemented crafting system:

    -GUI in Kindergarden look, were its even more difficult to see if something misses before opening the Doff-Assignment (in the old system it was pretty obvious if theres something missing or not and the GuI looked far more refined)

    -Assigning the best Doffs (e.g. crtical success) now need more clicks then before

    -20k dilithium to gamble Rarity (even on high level purple isnt garanteed) and Modifier


    "Improvements" is a funny way to spell Joke...
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    suaveks wrote: »
    Look on the bright side - giant screen wasting blocks and buttons usually scream "mobile".

    The thought did cross my mind, but I have to say that even though I was one of the folks asking for mobile doffing when I'm away from my computer, if it's going to look like this, then I'm not interested.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    I'm just amazed someone looked at this as a concept and then presumably thought 'Well hot daym! That's a mighty fine bit of revamp we got 'ere!'

    I mean I do have to wonder what actually goes into thinking some of this stuff up...
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • arrmateysarrmateys Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    best part is, the dil store was removed because it actually gave more attractive deals. for 19k dil you were guaranteed a purple weapon with modifiers you knew about before hand.
    Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the cr​ap out of me.
    We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
    We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    arrmateys wrote: »
    best part is, the dil store was removed because it actually gave more attractive deals. for 19k dil you were guaranteed a purple weapon with modifiers you knew about before hand.

    That pretty much sums up the problem with this whole thing, unpredictable, costly and un-competitive from what I can see at the moment.

    I will get some materials and transfer them to tribble to run a school through later, but right now I'm incredibly dubious of this entire thing.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • awlaforgeawlaforge Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    If the cluster exploration missions have been removed, is there anything being done to make up for the loss of diplomacy XP from the outreach missions?
  • miroexinmiroexin Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Crafting is to make something, not too gamble for something

    I like that I can choose Energy type and MK lvl but you need two more rarity and modifier.

    It is a school so let us train our officers in crafting 1, 2, 3 hour missions just for XP so we can lvl up.


    Let us craft components and items just when we need them and how many we need them (XP for crafting is welcome but not necessary).

    Common components = common materials like now and 100 dil
    Common item = 2 x common component = 200 dil
    Uncommon component = uncommon materials and 400 dil
    Uncommon item =2 x (common + uncommon component )= 1000 dil
    Rare components = rare materials and 5000 dil
    Rare item = 2 x (common + uncommon + rare component) = 11000 dil
    Very rare components = rare materials and 10000 dil
    Very rare item = 2 x (common + uncommon + rare + very rare component) = 31000 dil

    Dil cost for Vrare
    mk2 - 200
    mk3 - 600
    mk4 - 800
    mk5 - 1000
    mk6 - 3400
    mk7 - 6000
    mk8 - 11000
    mk9 - 16000
    mk10 - 21000
    mk11 - 26000
    mk12 - 31000


    Fill free to modify this, a little :)

    And like now you can leave under the real crafting system, the gambling one for those who like it 20000 dil for common MKII ;)
    After 21 crafting assignments and burning 1575 dil to bypass 2h building time to build MK II dual cannon I got:
    0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
    p.s. I will execute my rare Jam’hadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence it’s just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
  • cletusdeadmancletusdeadman Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Popped onto Tribble to verify the chance for crit. Yep, there it was.

    Thanks for committing the resources to try and improving this game function that was once one of the best things about STO. Unfortunately, I have no intention of committing my resources for "maybe". There may be some of the player base that it is interested in this style of system. I will pass on it, thanks anyways.

    The chances for a crit on crafting are far far greater than the chances of me actually using this system.





    On a positive note, thanks for updating the Enhanced Induction Coil. I love that console and use it often.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    [*]Enhanced Induction Coils:
    • No longer shares a cooldown with Batteries.
    • Now effects Auxiliary subsystems in the same manner as existing Weapons/Engines bonuses.
    • Now grants Immunity to Weapons, Engines and Aux offline for full duration.
    • Now grants +10 Maximum Weapon, Engines and Aux power for full duration.
    • Increased base power bonus from 33 to 50, and gains additional benefit from the Starship Batteries skill.
    • Base duration reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds, but now gains more benefit from Starship Batteries skill. +
    • Enhanced Induction Coils AND Enhanced Plasma Manifold:
      • Boosts to max power do not stack with the passive bonuses supplied by Warp Cores.
        • Only the higher will apply.
    PLEASE do not buff AUX power with this thing, and give a buff to shields instead.

    You are already giving a large buff to weapon power for big boost to first-strike potential, and a secondary buff to AUX will result in Defera T4 offensive stacking giving another huge boost to All Damage. Its too OP to get them both together. Vapers are gonna be one-shotting everybody.

    Right now its a point of distinction that Feds get the buff to AUX since it helps with their science ship line and the T4 Nukara passive can boost weapon damage too.

    Give the KDF console weaponse + shields + engines and it will be a nice balanced counterpart.
  • jivedutchjivedutch Member Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Quality of Life improvements for the game. ...

    1. GET RID OF CLUNKY RSI INDUCING SLIDERS .... seriously ... sliding oodles of times to buy junk for projects ,..... wasted time & strain ... this is supposed to be an FPS RPG Star Trek game, not sliders online ...

    2. ENABLE EASIER CONTRIBUTION ... it really makes no sense to click 20+ checkboxes for doffs to grind into the star trek equivalent of Soylent Green, not to mention the grind-down doff jobs at the personal officer ..... such mission should basicly include an "unlimited option box", with drag select enablement .... it should be a mission where u add 1 to 50 green dofs, which turn into 3 to 150 white doffs ... in 1 go. ... or better yet ... just have the option to add 1 green doff to a project, that would tick off 3 whites from the requirement.

    3A DILITHIUM GRIND .... costs for everything in the game are extortionate compared to the maximum amount of DIL that can be refined each day, if its needed for everything, it should be rewarded for everything, and the game should allow usage of UNREFINED dilithium for materials.

    3B DILTHIUM GRIND .... Refined dilithium is required for PURCHASING items ... alright ... then unlock the usage for UNREFINED dilithium for crafting and holdings .... seriously .. QUALITY OF LIFE IMPROVEMENT FOR FLEETS.

    4. HOLDINGS GRIND .... Fleet struggle for projects .... dilithium most of all ..... upgrade the Fleet Credit conversion rate for dilithium .... its completly silly for a fleetmark to reward 50 and dilithium only 1, for something that is such a precious commodity.

    5A TRADE SHIPS .... Taking away the crafting stations and perks the trade vessels had, that cuts away 50% of what these vessels are used for in the game. Turn the cluster specific missions into a "console or npc option" on board the ship, with a requirement that the trade vessel should be within 5ly of the cluster for example ....

    5B TRADE SHIPS .... Upgrade the manufacturing Facilities of the trade ships, to give a bonus to quality, or reduction in materials cost .... that would restore the value and service these trade vessels put into the game.

    6A DOFF JOBS .... I am glad to see that the system seems to choose better doffs for the asignments now, at least in my short testing, i was unable to find a better doff for a job myself.

    6B DOFF JOBS .... Add an indicator to the doffs how many affecting traits they have in the selection box , to keep it small a number could be used , D1 - S2 - C1 Disaster/Critical/Success modifiers.




    These are just some "quick" ideas on my impression of the upcomming changes.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    Well, there you go. I give up on Exploration accolade hunting. Will work hard on the sector defense ones before they remove those too.

    Devs, you could have just removed finding materials in clusters and made everything systems for exploration instead of just outright removing it all.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    john98837 wrote: »
    That right there is the problem, with such a high dil cost it is not reasonable to expect us to gamble on the mods. At the higher levels should be able to at the very least guarantee an x2, with a good chance of an x3 of the mod we want.

    As it stands can't see wasting resources on this crafting system, except to get the various traits if they are not able to be bought on the exchange.

    Okay, I have to agree there. No way am I gambling any amount of Dilithium on an uncertain outcome. Anything that costs Dilithium should be Rare, minimum.

    And if I'm not using the Crafting system as a result of that, I'm just going to end up selling all my materials and cash out. If I can.

    As far as the time to craft goes, if they push that out to the Gateway, fine. I can do that on my lunch hour or something and not interfere with my game time. I'd prefer that, actually.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Wow, a dilithium lottery grind-fest behind time gates which bloats a system (DOffs) that previously worked/looked fine (if it ain't broke don't fix it)? Bravo, Cryptic, bravo... *slow clap* Way to slowly but surely continue to kill your game!

    IMHO, spending dilithium (which translates into Zen which costs real money) and not getting the item out of it that you specifically want constitutes as gambling.
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I didn't read through the thread or hop on tribble. Just wondering, if MA is closed, what has happened to the 10 or so Foundry doors on that map?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • j0hn41j0hn41 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    • Dilithium tax
    • Random quality chance
    • Random [modifier] chance
    • Clunky UI
    • Time gating
    • Unfathomable addition of a new crafting stage (old system: Materials -> Craft desired item. New system: Materials -> Craft useless middleman objects -> Craft desired item)

    Oh yeah, the new crafting system is dead on arrival. But wait there's more! Now there's collateral damage in the form of removing exploration clusters and all of their associated content and doffing and bridge invites, and destroying the Doff UI, now powered by children's Mega Bloks(TM).

    Who needs pertinent information when you can have GIANT SCREEN WASTING BLOCKS instead!!? Too much information can easily overload the feeble or undeveloped mind. Protect your children today by only displaying FOUR large assignments on your 1080p monitor.
    john98837 wrote: »
    That right there is the problem, with such a high dil cost it is not reasonable to expect us to gamble on the mods. At the higher levels should be able to at the very least guarantee an x2, with a good chance of an x3 of the mod we want.

    As it stands can't see wasting resources on this crafting system, except to get the various traits if they are not able to be bought on the exchange.
    arrmateys wrote: »
    best part is, the dil store was removed because it actually gave more attractive deals. for 19k dil you were guaranteed a purple weapon with modifiers you knew about before hand.

    Too many good post to quote.

    Rep grind and the store dil sink are good because of guaranteed results.

    I cant justify wasting my hard earned dilithium on a project awarding gear that not only has uncertain mods, (which was pretty much the only reason I could think of to craft over the exchange,rep,dil store), but also has a chance to be rare or worse quality.
  • kirimuffinkirimuffin Member Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Found a bug: Under the Beam school, the Emitter Module project is listed under "Subprocessor Unit". I crafted a bunch of them before I realized I was crafting something completely different than I thought.
  • kirimuffinkirimuffin Member Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    awlaforge wrote: »
    If the cluster exploration missions have been removed, is there anything being done to make up for the loss of diplomacy XP from the outreach missions?

    And while we're at it, what about the diplomacy missions on Memory Alpha?

    (Yes, I know that you can make more DXP from doff assignments, but still. Really bothers me that such huge chunks of game content are just getting ripped out.)
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