But it's difficult to see if that was the actual point. It's in there. Many of us recognize it. But is it really what the OP was saying? There was just so much else there...that it's pretty easy just to write the thread off and ignore it.
I'm all for the average guy, average build, doing average DPS...I'm not a fan of the ego epeen nonsense that some of the (not all of the) high DPS folks toss around. But I'm not going to post something like the OP did about one thing when it was just a case of somebody being a douche...Cryptic can't fix people. People suck.
I'm all for the average guy, average build, doing average DPS...I'm not a fan of the ego epeen nonsense that some of the (not all of the) high DPS folks toss around.
Yeah, but here's the thing: The OP isn't the average guy, with an average build, doing average DPS. He's a guy with an outlandishly pretentious username, a probably subpar build, doing below-average DPS, and he's reacting poorly when his pretentions are shattered in front of him.
I'm just saying, 6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years, you don't take the time or put forth the effort then no, your toon isn't gonna give you the same as someone who has put the time and effort in, nor should it.
That's my issue here, its not a timeline per say, more of the effort and work you put into it.
I definitely get that, I think I just got caught up in the mathematical side of that - 6 weeks - pretty interesting timeframe, eh? Take a more casual route with that, bump it out to 12 weeks - and - you're basically setting yourself up for Season X.0 and Season X.5 sort of scenarios. Somebody coming into the game, should be able to catch up pretty quickly.
Cryptic's done a lot to make the game new player and alt character friendly.
Some folks though...if one can even really call it effort for most things (there are still things where folks go above and beyond)...still complain about the effort. It's all over the place - not wanting to do anything and wanting to be rewarded. It's annoying...meh.
That might have been some of the aggo bleed that took place here.
I'd rather run into the 1k DPS guy that was trying...willing to try more, etc, etc, etc. I couldn't help them, but I could them to folks that could. They're interested in the game. They get the concept of a return on investment. They don't suffer delusions of entitlement.
Player in my own fleet has been playing just at a year now, he asked A LOT of questions, he played a lot, he PVP'd with us a lot to learn and ask more questions, he's one of the very best players I know in this game now, because he worked at it, not because he waited for PWE to even something out, or make it easier for him. He is one of our own admins because he enjoys playing and showed us that dedication, while old tired players like myself take more and more time off lol.
"Blackbeard@furianerbiber: CombatLogReaderInfected Space[4:05] Dmg(DPS) Blackbeard 6.439.447(26.499) Kak A Inda 4.093.698(16.708) Sejk 1.575.075(6.428) Anh 793.440(3.639) Fleet Admi 627.532(2.603)
Blackbeard@furianerbiber: Admiral see and cray
Blackbeard@furianerbiber: cry"
First off, this isn't a post regarding who said what... This post is to tell Cryptic it's F-ing time to fix this game! Been here supporting your company since the website came out 1 year before the launch of this game... I have seen it grown from an infant game, through to a mature awesome game, and basically now a game that I'm sick & tired of being a part of!
This WAS a decent teamplay, somewhat half balanced, game... however, since Perfect World has became your financial backer, its clear its nothing more than a money pit that PW will send to an early grave. Since the launch of Season 9, where decent tank builds were able w/o using the Aux to .... build, you not only nerfed the tank players, but at the same time, you strengthen the DPSer to a point they don't need a tank or a healer anymore. They can kill so fast & quickly, any other build in the game is mute!
You don't need to use Aux2Bat to get more than 627 DPS. You should be able to reach a ballpark of 2k to 5k DPS with just about any selection of bridge officer powers, as long as you stick to one damage type and stack the right consoles. The variance is just from the number of tac consoles available to different types of ships. Obviously a 2 tac console ship isn't going to have high DPS, but they can still reach 2k DPS without trying that hard.
627 DPS is bad no matter how you look at it, even if they nerfed Aux2Bat it wouldn't make what you're doing any better - your ship would still be doing poorly. If another type of DPS build became popular you would be raging at that one instead because then that build would make you look bad in comparison. But please, for a moment remove all the other comparisons and realize that in fact, your ship alone is what's doing poorly here.
Just one of the beams on my Nicor does over 1k DPS. I could out DPS you with just one weapon on my ship. That's without any buffs or bridge officer powers - just 1 beam and 5 tac consoles.
Nerfing Aux2Bat isn't the solution to increasing DPS - learning to build a ship is the solution.
The only reason you said anything on this post is because your an aux 2 noob user and you don't want it nerfed because you don't want to change builds. Well get over it if enough people cry they will nerf it to the ground then your back to being in the low dps class get ready cause it's coming and there isn't one thing you can do about it Erm!!!!!
On the contrary, a little search-fu on these forums and you'll see that I have asked for suggestions for a non-Aux2Bat build which was posted before you posted here.
Robby, should this have not already have happened, like a month ago? I don't doubt much that at some point it's coming, but when, Robby, is it coming? You told me that you have a friend in a Fleet that has a full pink title Dev as a member, and according to that Dev, (who not only has boldly joined a fleet with his Dev account, but also likes to chat with his fleet mates about what developments are coming to STO) that within 3-4 weeks of Season 9 going live the technician duty officers, that reduce the cool down on Bridge Officers abilities, are going to be nerfed so that players will be limited to only slotting one instead of three.
Well, we are over a month past 3-4 weeks of Season 9 going live, where is your technician nerf? You can tell us what the chatty Dev says. That is of course if you could trust him as a reliable source anymore. He was dead wrong about when the Technician Duty Officer adjustment was going to happen.
You kind of remind me of the doomsayers of 2012. You know... the ones who claimed the world was going end in 2012. Or even those who claimed the rapture (biblical reference) was going to happen in 2011. Claims are made, dates are given, time comes, claim is proven wrong.
I will give you one thing... you are correct that I am an Aux2Bat noob user. I freely and openly admit that. It was a build that I basically researched and implemented myself as at the time, there was no one to help me with builds.
You don't need to use Aux2Bat to get more than 627 DPS. You should be able to reach a ballpark of 2k to 5k DPS with just about any selection of bridge officer powers, as long as you stick to one damage type and stack the right consoles. The variance is just from the number of tac consoles available to different types of ships. Obviously a 2 tac console ship isn't going to have high DPS, but they can still reach 2k DPS without trying that hard.
627 DPS is bad no matter how you look at it, even if they nerfed Aux2Bat it wouldn't make what you're doing any better - your ship would still be doing poorly. If another type of DPS build became popular you would be raging at that one instead because then that build would make you look bad in comparison. But please, for a moment remove all the other comparisons and realize that in fact, your ship alone is what's doing poorly here.
Just one of the beams on my Nicor does over 1k DPS. I could out DPS you with just one weapon on my ship. That's without any buffs or bridge officer powers - just 1 beam and 5 tac consoles.
Nerfing Aux2Bat isn't the solution to increasing DPS - learning to build a ship is the solution.
His DPS was actually 2.6k. Still pathetic, but not terrible--for a newbie lv50 flying a free sovvie.
Yeah, but here's the thing: The OP isn't the average guy, with an average build, doing average DPS. He's a guy with an outlandishly pretentious username, a probably subpar build, doing below-average DPS, and he's reacting poorly when his pretentions are shattered in front of him.
Wasn't saying the OP was an average guy...heh, I think of the movie Dodgeball when I think of the average guy. The Average Joe's...they show up, they have fun, they put in effort.
Yeah, wasn't calling the OP an average guy...just pointing out that I'm not a fan of the ego that some folks ooze here and there. Heck, the guy even came to the thread to stir it up some more.
I just get rubbed the wrong way by ego...though, to be honest - it's ego both ways. There's the over the top bravado ego and there's the whiny entitled fragile ego.
All in all, lol - this isn't a thread I should continue posting in if I don't want to start getting messages from Q down the line. Q's messages aren't as friendly as Bran's knock it off messages were...lol.
You don't need to use Aux2Bat to get more than 627 DPS. You should be able to reach a ballpark of 2k to 5k DPS with just about any selection of bridge officer powers, as long as you stick to one damage type and stack the right consoles. The variance is just from the number of tac consoles available to different types of ships. Obviously a 2 tac console ship isn't going to have high DPS, but they can still reach 2k DPS without trying that hard.
627 DPS is bad no matter how you look at it, even if they nerfed Aux2Bat it wouldn't make what you're doing any better - your ship would still be doing poorly. If another type of DPS build became popular you would be raging at that one instead because then that build would make you look bad in comparison. But please, for a moment remove all the other comparisons and realize that in fact, your ship alone is what's doing poorly here.
Just one of the beams on my Nicor does over 1k DPS. I could out DPS you with just one weapon on my ship. That's without any buffs or bridge officer powers - just 1 beam and 5 tac consoles.
Nerfing Aux2Bat isn't the solution to increasing DPS - learning to build a ship is the solution.
OP did 627k total damage, 2.6k DPS.
also learning to build a ship is only 1/2 the solution. learning to fly the ship is the other, more important, half of the equation.
If they nerfed a2b tomorrow it would not affect me, i have tons of 30k+ DPS non-aux2batt builds.
if they nerf FAW tomorrow that would annoy me to no end, but i would switch to cannons and do 30k+ DPS again.
Heh, I edited that to be a little less confrontational - had some other aggro from something else spilling into this thread.
Completely alright, I get that it happens, as I have a habbit of that as well.
A lot of the advances made to make it easier on alts and new players is fine, some of what PWE has done I am all for. My only problem in this game is some have taken the stance that they should be able to do very little, with a lot of reward, like you said.
Casual players that fly around going pew pew I absolutely love to hang with, they are almost always the funniest craziest group of loons that bring a smile to my face on TS or mumble.
Its the constant push for me me me that I have an issue with, and why I have slowly drifted further away from the game.
I think you said earlier "its a game, have fun." players like that, that's why I stuck around as long as I have, is to hang out, help, and have fun with people like that.
The more the game changes, the more it stays the same.
PvPer's complained Science was too tough, it was nerfed.
Klingons. Nuff Said/
Tetryons a joke.
Plasma is a joke 'cause everyone has defense against it. Seriously - it is a waste of pixels. But not as bad as tetryon.
'escorts online' Anyone remember this?
It's easy to get a full VR XII Borg 'everything' after 3.5 STF's. Game is too easy.
Tricobalt one shotting gate generators? B'Rel's were unstoppable.
Klingons get a plasmotic leech?!!!! Universal seating? OMG OP
Tetryon sucks.
Klingons. Nuff Said/
The Bug. OMG OP NERF PLEASE NOT FAIR.
Wait I have to grind for my Borg stuff now? OMG UNFAIR.
[Borg] has never worked? Liar! It still works 'cause I say so!
Reputation! Reputation! Reputation! Please repeat on all 21 alts.
OMG cruisers suck. BFAW. OMG cruisers are OP.
Plasma OMG is so OP. UNFAIR!
Scimidar. Excuse me while I clean my shorts. From laughing at the guy who only got 1200 dps in ISE. OMG on his second run he got 24,697 dps?
OMG romulan are OP.
Klingons. Have. Backstory. OMG they're cool, except when Starfleet Dental exploits a bug to allow them to raid ESD. Which is cool, except while I'm role playing a new alt.
Tetryon still sucks.
Disrupters are OP. Not fair to phasers, who are in actual fact the best ever? What? Advanced phasers do more damage? WTF?!!!
Escorts are back baby. Now just turn down the Nadion Console just a smidgeon...
Whaaaa? Photon Torpedoes smeared with bio-gel do more damage more often than anything else? Please excuse me for a private moment with my browser. Oh baby, Daddy has missed you......Phasers cool again? Never! Whaaa? maybe i'll try them again.
Whaaaa? 2 deflectors on science ships?
Dinosaurs with Frikin laser beams on their heads?
Tetryon, no matter how you package it still reeks of fanboy sweat and tears. Still sucks.
----
I know I've missed about 100+ other issues, flaws and game comments.
...and let's be honest, those ESD raids were actually pretty cool. For all that SFD are a bunch of bored, trolling jerks, they do occasionally do some pretty awesome stuff in between their griefing.
Heck, I wish the Devs would put that bug back in. It might even help clean up ESD zone chat, especially if all the KDF players immediately went to ESD and started shooting everything in sight...
I read all the comments here, and with the exception of a couple intelligent comments, all I hear here is a bunch of overpowered DPS punks trying to defend the current game unbalance because they are AFRAID they may get nerfed and can't stand the concept of losing all that DPS (like DPS is what a MMO is all about... only MAROONS think that way!). PLEASE address this point and show who you are! BTW, my build is TANK, and only tank, PERIOD! I don't need any help from overpowered DPSers to get more DPS... if I wanted more DPS, I'd fly an escort. I'm a tank... That means I hit just enough to keep agro, but more importantly, take the punches from multiple targets. And survive so the team I'm playing with, SURVIVES. And herein is the problem... the fact that some of you have stated basically, yes we don't need tanks or healers, is evidence enough of what I'm talking about. And for the record... those of you that don't know this, DPS doesn't keep agrro in STO, Kinetic Damage DOES! and my tank builds are all about Kinetic Damage to keep agrro W/O points in THREAT CONTROL! Its' really impossible to get and keep agrro when you have DPS-ers running and killing the mobs before you get a shot off. In a good game based on team dynamics, that should NEVER HAPPEN!
When Cryptic started this game, they clearly stated they wanted it to be different than the typical MMO that was currently on the market. They wanted the game to be a teamplay base game, according to them. The reason I know this is because I was on the forums reading their comments of what they wanted for this game... a year BEFORE there was a game!
Bottom line here is: I'm not crying because this moron of a player out DPS-ed me, and then had the gaul to mouth off about it when an experienced player macro-ed mission instructions in for any inexperience PUGS that may have joined...
I'm complaining about one of the orginal concepts Cryptic claimed they wanted from their game and the fact it is BROKEN, that being TEAM DYNAMICS! It has to be broken if there is no longer a need for tanks & healers. And for the people crying," I bet the OP didn't even throw out a heal!", first off... TANK ISN"T A HEALER > THE HEALER IS! Secondly, if the DPSERS kill the mobs BEFORE the mobs can get a couple shots off, long before they (DPSer) can get damage, why would they need a heal? That in itself proves the current DPS builds are WAY too overpowered and Cryptic needs to take notice to it and come up with a way to re-balance the team dynamics for the game. Powering up the PvE mobs ISN"T the answer... that solves nothing but make a wider gap between experienced players and inexperienced players! And by doing that, also, yes now makes the DPS-ers need a tank again... but guess what, the tank now goes down, and the the dps-ers will also w/o their tank, making the dynamics FUBAR-ed even more from the power creep they were stating they were trying to stop.
Experienced players that believe I'm a NOOB or a PUG whining about being out DPS-ed are the real noobs of the game or any MMO game. And for those of you unclear whether I'm talking PvE or PvP, I'm talking PvE queue missions! Not PvP, which I care completely nothing about... not regular missions, we all know that those on Elite are still quite easy, even with poor team dynamics. No, I'm talking the Rep System PvE missions in the PvE Queue(including the STFs)!
Now, there was another comment, from a poster that stated I should be complaining about the bugs, glitches, and broken loadout options and etc., which continually plague the game. YES, by all means, I fully agree with that, and yes, those issues need address IMMEDIATELY! They add way more frustration to the fire for players that play this game for the fun. AND YES, THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE! The goal is to fun and relax from the stress of the real world! We are willing to spend hard earned money for that relaxation... however, when the game is broken to the point of players getting frustrated from other overpowered players in Pick-Up groups; when the game server is so unstable, it can't accept an input from a keystroke on the first or second time its pushed, not to mention it might take 3 or 4 pushes, then an actual click from a mouse to set the skill off (creating a timely delay and messing the deployment of a skill at the right time) which by the way is fixed one week, and then broken again the next; lagged out loadscreens from HELL going to fleet maps that are already downloaded to the client, but takes 5 times longer to load vs. any other normal map when they SHOULD be faster than a normal combat or heavy trafficked social area/map.
All these are issues (and more) that have been weakly attempted to be addressed, only for it to break again, AND then adding more issues along the way has many players frustrated and coming to the forum to vent this frustration to feel they aren't being heard. And no, I'm not abusing the coders; I'm addressing the people in charge of this game! FIX IT, AND DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME! My father always told me, and now being a father for 12 years at the age of 48 years old, I tell my son, "Do it right the first time and you won't have to go back wasting time to DO IT AGAIN!" I stress this every day to him. I believe: A) this game may have outgrown its current servers, and/or need upgrading or replaced, or Too much rush is being put on the coders & devs to keep putting out content (either by management or forum trollers, maybe BOTH!), that the addressing serious bug issues is falling too low on the priority list.
I have programmed in my days... LONG BEFORE many or all of you were even born. For the record, I was programming in Machine Language and B.A.S.I.C.S. years before Microsoft acquired DOS, WAY before there was a WINDOWS dreamed of. Debugging and beta testing material SHOULD ALWAYS be first priority, and from what I have seen, the content that comes out doesn't receive enough time on Tribble before it goes live on the Holodeck, and if it does, in the process of adding it, which should INCLUDE a reload of all the content (which has already been debugged), thus would eliminate a good portion of the re-accruing bugs from surfacing again. Yes, that may mean longer maintenance times, but guess what, it also means less frustration on the part of the players who are spending money to get a quality product.
And before it even starts... if the forum trolls don't like this recommendation... TAKE YA WHINING ELSEWHERE or better yet, GO OUTSIDE FOR SEVERAL HOURS AND GET A LIFE OUTSIDE THE GAME! Hell, I bet many of you need the exercise desperately anyways!
And BTW, I'm not a forum troll, I spend hardly any time at all on the forums, because basically, if I'm on the forum, I'm not in the game I want to enjoy. I love this game... I've seen it grow and what a great game it can become... BUT, < changes need to start happening now by the people in charge of it. It's not growing into the game Cryptic claim they wanted, and its clearly because TEAM DYNAMICS got lost and broken in the focus! PLEASE, take the time to review and re-establish team dynamics, and do a detail debugging of the game before adding anymore new content. FIX IT AND FIX IT PROPERLY! I can't stress this enough!
The only thing I got from the OP's incoherent spiel is that apparently he's trying to fly a torpedo cruiser, probably one manifestly unsuited for the job.
Since I have never heard this strange belief that kinetic damage is somehow more aggro-grabbing than any other form of damage, AND he has no points in Threat Control to boot, I am pretty convinced this guy fails at his intended role in the game, too.
The only thing I got from the OP's incoherent spiel is that apparently he's trying to fly a torpedo cruiser, probably one manifestly unsuited for the job.
Since I have never heard this strange belief that kinetic damage is somehow more aggro-grabbing than any other form of damage, AND he has no points in Threat Control to boot, I am pretty convinced this guy fails at his intended role in the game, too.
Now, I play since S5. Even then neither tanks nor healers where needed for pve. Thats why I like this game better then those, where you need far more time to gether the right group for missions. Here you can switch a few BOs and fill pretty much everything in the spectrum.
And tbh, I never understood why tanking/healing and dps were exclusive to each other. It never was. If you think it is, than I congratulate you for being one of those Veterans, who think "knowing the game" means "playing it the longest". Just to make sure: It isnt.
And at the end you just start with "i am older then you, I know better", which is kind of the silliest argument any grown person could make. Face it, the game demands whats best, and if you do something else, its fine as long as you are in certain limits. With 2,x k you are on Pets-level.
And tbh, if you use team dynamics and "tanks dont heal", sry, I can only laugh, because if you are a tank, and cant tank, because someone else draws -for any reason- more aggro, and you cant toss him some heal because you are a tank (and not because you need it for yourself), thats kind of ironie. talking about dynamics while being as rigid as a corpse.
So, bottomline is, I am sry for you, as you seem to have never understood the game in the first place or -since I am only a S5-player- think very archaic.
The only thing I got from the OP's incoherent spiel is that apparently he's trying to fly a torpedo cruiser, probably one manifestly unsuited for the job.
Since I have never heard this strange belief that kinetic damage is somehow more aggro-grabbing than any other form of damage, AND he has no points in Threat Control to boot, I am pretty convinced this guy fails at his intended role in the game, too.
no no no, he doesn't fail. everyone else fails. get it?
And herein is the problem... the fact that some of you have stated basically, yes we don't need tanks or healers, is evidence enough of what I'm talking about.
That's not necessarily a problem. Course, I'm not a fan of the MMO Trinity - so perhaps I don't see that in the same light as others. MMOs took something awesome from PnP RPGs and corrupted the Hell out of it, imho.
Positional tanks are one things - tanks that tell jokes about a mob's mother in the hopes of holding aggro are another. Tanking in MMOs is the most illogical thing I've ever encountered in gaming. Here is a target that it is absolutely the least threat on the field of battle that generates the most threat. It's ridiculous. You've got mobs that run empires that are a threat to the very existence of everybody else on the planet, yet they're going to ignore the DPS that are actually killing it and the healer that's keeping the meatshield alive while pound away on that meatshield? Those guys couldn't be the janitors at the enemy bases much less the guys running them.
Then we get into healing, eh? It's one thing in a "fantasy" setting with spellcasters and the like waving their wee wands to heal folks. It's another when you're in space and uh...yeah, uh.../facepalm.
It's one of the things that ruins the Star Trek aspect of STO...it's more EQ than ST.
That being said though, STO more than allows for folks to run the MMO Trinity - it's all there...
But it's not a requirement...which is a good thing, imho.
Folks that want to MMO Trinity-it-up in STO should get together, fly together, have a blast. The game allows for it.
Likewise, folks that want to run megaDPS builds should get together, fly together, have a blast. The game allows for that too.
Neither would have issue doing that.
Their issue with each other only comes about when they PUG and end up playing together. Two different styles that don't mesh...that don't sync.
You never know what you're going to get when you PUG, and imho, that's how folks that PUG should build. If they're building for something specific and they PUG, they've got nobody to blame but themselves...
And at the end you just start with "i am older then you, I know better", which is kind of the silliest argument any grown person could make. Face it, the game demands whats best, and if you do something else, its fine as long as you are in certain limits. With 2,x k you are on Pets-level.
Speaking as a 17-year-old nerd who can do 30K DPS in a DHC scimi...you are absolutely correct.
Age is irrelevant, and is not proportional to knowledge.
My Scimitar currently makes 10K DPS in a bad PUG in ISE, no sweat. I use protonic polaron DHCs and turrets, the Solanae set, and the Scimitar 3-piece set. No fancy doffs, no marion, no DEM.
I still hit 10k DPS even in a terrible PUG.
My Fed's C-store Avenger uses the weaksauce Avenger console, and the Solanae set, with the Romulan weapons set and a DBB/turret build, and gets 10K dps AND tanks almost as well as a Scimitar. My Ferengi eng has a free sovvie that can tank an entire ISE run and put out 6K DPS.
if u liked the game u wouldnt quit........... Honestly beleave u need a break i took one and it help allot.....Yes we all are tired of the a2b and warp core power set up's but there are ways to kill these mugs i do so every day with 19k in dps 16.9 crit and severity of 138.9 and acc. 31.3 thats is with a human cap if u are haveing issues fnding ur dps may i susjest a new play style and a trip to your local spire lmao and embassy..... all i use is human cap and all i do is pvp i never use a2b either.... only loser macro bot head use it....... the universe isnt perfect nor should be sto.... so please hang in there all veterans of the game......... just point at em and luagh......... and for god sakes turn off your dps meter and have fun.......... it helps
some thing else all rage quiters should think about when they talk of quiting.....
STAR TREK ONLINE IS THE BEST STAR TREK GAME ON THE MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i now even with its problems its still the best.......and i tried every mmo out there sto is still my farvorite even thou the build styles have dipped lately......i dodnt think faction are that bad uneven simple put only thing i hate in the game atm is the battle cloak........ romulan dps is apost to be high honestly............the romulan battle cloak killed the klink faction saddly its own success was there down fall...... i allso only fly sci cap too with three tacts caps ....and for the most part the faction are even till it come to cloaks and assimulator's fed players do have access to some the best gear in game i now i never die to a romulan unless a couple veteran players of kerrat.... so man take a break and please quit rage quiting everyone... what ever happen to adapt or die or did we all get to old for that?
And for the record... those of you that don't know this, DPS doesn't keep agrro in STO, Kinetic Damage DOES! and my tank builds are all about Kinetic Damage to keep agrro W/O points in THREAT CONTROL!
No.
The Threat we deal is damage received times any modifiers like Threat Control or threat consoles. This is directly from a Dev's explanation of what the threat consoles do, back when the Fleet Embassy was added. NPCs target whoever has the most Threat, it's not complicated.
This also makes Kinetic weapons the least useful for dealing Threat if the target has shields up, since 75% of Kinetic damage it outright negated by shields.
It doesn't matter if you're fighting a target 10 seconds before me, if I deal 5 times your damage and neither of us have threat modifiers, I'll have aggro in 3 seconds.
Nigh-invulnerability does not make a tank. A "Tank" has two requirements: Survive Aggro, and Hold Aggro. A tank only needs enough survivability to not die. Excess survivability (recovery and defensive abilities that you never need to use) is superfluous, and inefficient when ship building is a zero-sum game.
Since STO has no aggro management abilities, the only way to hold aggro is by dealing threat, which is damage * multipliers. You obviously can't out-damage DPSers, that's why there's Threat Control and +Threat consoles. Given the existence of those, and the fact that most DPSers will have -Threat consoles, if you can't hold aggro you're just a bad tank.
Heck, my Engineering Captain in a Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier was an excellent tank, just by virtue of usually dealing enough damage to inadvertently hold aggro, and usually not dying while doing so. (All my deaths tend to be player error, when I get overconfident and refrain from popping Miracle Worker... or just plain forget to hit my OH SHI-! button.)
Comments
But it's difficult to see if that was the actual point. It's in there. Many of us recognize it. But is it really what the OP was saying? There was just so much else there...that it's pretty easy just to write the thread off and ignore it.
I'm all for the average guy, average build, doing average DPS...I'm not a fan of the ego epeen nonsense that some of the (not all of the) high DPS folks toss around. But I'm not going to post something like the OP did about one thing when it was just a case of somebody being a douche...Cryptic can't fix people. People suck.
One of my toons flies one.
I unpack her when I'm tired of pewpew and want to play with the rest of the toolkit.
She doesn't make much of a dent in the DPS rankings, but she keeps team mates alive and fulfils her intended science role admirably.
Cryptic may have downgraded science in game, but it's still viable.
And as for any upset minmaxers, they can suck it up.
Heh, I edited that to be a little less confrontational - had some other aggro from something else spilling into this thread.
I definitely get that, I think I just got caught up in the mathematical side of that - 6 weeks - pretty interesting timeframe, eh? Take a more casual route with that, bump it out to 12 weeks - and - you're basically setting yourself up for Season X.0 and Season X.5 sort of scenarios. Somebody coming into the game, should be able to catch up pretty quickly.
Cryptic's done a lot to make the game new player and alt character friendly.
Some folks though...if one can even really call it effort for most things (there are still things where folks go above and beyond)...still complain about the effort. It's all over the place - not wanting to do anything and wanting to be rewarded. It's annoying...meh.
That might have been some of the aggo bleed that took place here.
I'd rather run into the 1k DPS guy that was trying...willing to try more, etc, etc, etc. I couldn't help them, but I could them to folks that could. They're interested in the game. They get the concept of a return on investment. They don't suffer delusions of entitlement.
Too much effort! :P
I prefer to fly around going wheeeeeeeee!
You don't need to use Aux2Bat to get more than 627 DPS. You should be able to reach a ballpark of 2k to 5k DPS with just about any selection of bridge officer powers, as long as you stick to one damage type and stack the right consoles. The variance is just from the number of tac consoles available to different types of ships. Obviously a 2 tac console ship isn't going to have high DPS, but they can still reach 2k DPS without trying that hard.
627 DPS is bad no matter how you look at it, even if they nerfed Aux2Bat it wouldn't make what you're doing any better - your ship would still be doing poorly. If another type of DPS build became popular you would be raging at that one instead because then that build would make you look bad in comparison. But please, for a moment remove all the other comparisons and realize that in fact, your ship alone is what's doing poorly here.
Just one of the beams on my Nicor does over 1k DPS. I could out DPS you with just one weapon on my ship. That's without any buffs or bridge officer powers - just 1 beam and 5 tac consoles.
Nerfing Aux2Bat isn't the solution to increasing DPS - learning to build a ship is the solution.
I don't you understand what a min/maxer is.
Anyone who plays PvP, flies a healer, a tanker, a ganker. and yes, a DPSer is a min/maxer.
if you have ever stacked two or more bonuses you are a min/maxer.
You're running AMACO/KHG 2p with a torpedo or two? min/maxer.
Running EPtS/EPtW with 2x or 3x DCEs? min/maxer.
etc.. i could go on, but i think you should suck it up yourself.
On the contrary, a little search-fu on these forums and you'll see that I have asked for suggestions for a non-Aux2Bat build which was posted before you posted here.
Robby, should this have not already have happened, like a month ago? I don't doubt much that at some point it's coming, but when, Robby, is it coming? You told me that you have a friend in a Fleet that has a full pink title Dev as a member, and according to that Dev, (who not only has boldly joined a fleet with his Dev account, but also likes to chat with his fleet mates about what developments are coming to STO) that within 3-4 weeks of Season 9 going live the technician duty officers, that reduce the cool down on Bridge Officers abilities, are going to be nerfed so that players will be limited to only slotting one instead of three.
Well, we are over a month past 3-4 weeks of Season 9 going live, where is your technician nerf? You can tell us what the chatty Dev says. That is of course if you could trust him as a reliable source anymore. He was dead wrong about when the Technician Duty Officer adjustment was going to happen.
You kind of remind me of the doomsayers of 2012. You know... the ones who claimed the world was going end in 2012. Or even those who claimed the rapture (biblical reference) was going to happen in 2011. Claims are made, dates are given, time comes, claim is proven wrong.
I will give you one thing... you are correct that I am an Aux2Bat noob user. I freely and openly admit that. It was a build that I basically researched and implemented myself as at the time, there was no one to help me with builds.
His DPS was actually 2.6k. Still pathetic, but not terrible--for a newbie lv50 flying a free sovvie.
Wasn't saying the OP was an average guy...heh, I think of the movie Dodgeball when I think of the average guy. The Average Joe's...they show up, they have fun, they put in effort.
Yeah, wasn't calling the OP an average guy...just pointing out that I'm not a fan of the ego that some folks ooze here and there. Heck, the guy even came to the thread to stir it up some more.
I just get rubbed the wrong way by ego...though, to be honest - it's ego both ways. There's the over the top bravado ego and there's the whiny entitled fragile ego.
All in all, lol - this isn't a thread I should continue posting in if I don't want to start getting messages from Q down the line. Q's messages aren't as friendly as Bran's knock it off messages were...lol.
OP did 627k total damage, 2.6k DPS.
also learning to build a ship is only 1/2 the solution. learning to fly the ship is the other, more important, half of the equation.
If they nerfed a2b tomorrow it would not affect me, i have tons of 30k+ DPS non-aux2batt builds.
if they nerf FAW tomorrow that would annoy me to no end, but i would switch to cannons and do 30k+ DPS again.
Completely alright, I get that it happens, as I have a habbit of that as well.
A lot of the advances made to make it easier on alts and new players is fine, some of what PWE has done I am all for. My only problem in this game is some have taken the stance that they should be able to do very little, with a lot of reward, like you said.
Casual players that fly around going pew pew I absolutely love to hang with, they are almost always the funniest craziest group of loons that bring a smile to my face on TS or mumble.
Its the constant push for me me me that I have an issue with, and why I have slowly drifted further away from the game.
I think you said earlier "its a game, have fun." players like that, that's why I stuck around as long as I have, is to hang out, help, and have fun with people like that.
----
I know I've missed about 100+ other issues, flaws and game comments.
The bottom line: the game is what you make of it.
Heck, I wish the Devs would put that bug back in. It might even help clean up ESD zone chat, especially if all the KDF players immediately went to ESD and started shooting everything in sight...
ok this made me laugh.
/thread
When Cryptic started this game, they clearly stated they wanted it to be different than the typical MMO that was currently on the market. They wanted the game to be a teamplay base game, according to them. The reason I know this is because I was on the forums reading their comments of what they wanted for this game... a year BEFORE there was a game!
Bottom line here is: I'm not crying because this moron of a player out DPS-ed me, and then had the gaul to mouth off about it when an experienced player macro-ed mission instructions in for any inexperience PUGS that may have joined...
I'm complaining about one of the orginal concepts Cryptic claimed they wanted from their game and the fact it is BROKEN, that being TEAM DYNAMICS! It has to be broken if there is no longer a need for tanks & healers. And for the people crying," I bet the OP didn't even throw out a heal!", first off... TANK ISN"T A HEALER > THE HEALER IS! Secondly, if the DPSERS kill the mobs BEFORE the mobs can get a couple shots off, long before they (DPSer) can get damage, why would they need a heal? That in itself proves the current DPS builds are WAY too overpowered and Cryptic needs to take notice to it and come up with a way to re-balance the team dynamics for the game. Powering up the PvE mobs ISN"T the answer... that solves nothing but make a wider gap between experienced players and inexperienced players! And by doing that, also, yes now makes the DPS-ers need a tank again... but guess what, the tank now goes down, and the the dps-ers will also w/o their tank, making the dynamics FUBAR-ed even more from the power creep they were stating they were trying to stop.
Experienced players that believe I'm a NOOB or a PUG whining about being out DPS-ed are the real noobs of the game or any MMO game. And for those of you unclear whether I'm talking PvE or PvP, I'm talking PvE queue missions! Not PvP, which I care completely nothing about... not regular missions, we all know that those on Elite are still quite easy, even with poor team dynamics. No, I'm talking the Rep System PvE missions in the PvE Queue(including the STFs)!
Now, there was another comment, from a poster that stated I should be complaining about the bugs, glitches, and broken loadout options and etc., which continually plague the game. YES, by all means, I fully agree with that, and yes, those issues need address IMMEDIATELY! They add way more frustration to the fire for players that play this game for the fun. AND YES, THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE! The goal is to fun and relax from the stress of the real world! We are willing to spend hard earned money for that relaxation... however, when the game is broken to the point of players getting frustrated from other overpowered players in Pick-Up groups; when the game server is so unstable, it can't accept an input from a keystroke on the first or second time its pushed, not to mention it might take 3 or 4 pushes, then an actual click from a mouse to set the skill off (creating a timely delay and messing the deployment of a skill at the right time) which by the way is fixed one week, and then broken again the next; lagged out loadscreens from HELL going to fleet maps that are already downloaded to the client, but takes 5 times longer to load vs. any other normal map when they SHOULD be faster than a normal combat or heavy trafficked social area/map.
All these are issues (and more) that have been weakly attempted to be addressed, only for it to break again, AND then adding more issues along the way has many players frustrated and coming to the forum to vent this frustration to feel they aren't being heard. And no, I'm not abusing the coders; I'm addressing the people in charge of this game! FIX IT, AND DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME! My father always told me, and now being a father for 12 years at the age of 48 years old, I tell my son, "Do it right the first time and you won't have to go back wasting time to DO IT AGAIN!" I stress this every day to him. I believe: A) this game may have outgrown its current servers, and/or need upgrading or replaced, or
I have programmed in my days... LONG BEFORE many or all of you were even born. For the record, I was programming in Machine Language and B.A.S.I.C.S. years before Microsoft acquired DOS, WAY before there was a WINDOWS dreamed of. Debugging and beta testing material SHOULD ALWAYS be first priority, and from what I have seen, the content that comes out doesn't receive enough time on Tribble before it goes live on the Holodeck, and if it does, in the process of adding it, which should INCLUDE a reload of all the content (which has already been debugged), thus would eliminate a good portion of the re-accruing bugs from surfacing again. Yes, that may mean longer maintenance times, but guess what, it also means less frustration on the part of the players who are spending money to get a quality product.
And before it even starts... if the forum trolls don't like this recommendation... TAKE YA WHINING ELSEWHERE or better yet, GO OUTSIDE FOR SEVERAL HOURS AND GET A LIFE OUTSIDE THE GAME! Hell, I bet many of you need the exercise desperately anyways!
And BTW, I'm not a forum troll, I spend hardly any time at all on the forums, because basically, if I'm on the forum, I'm not in the game I want to enjoy. I love this game... I've seen it grow and what a great game it can become... BUT, < changes need to start happening now by the people in charge of it. It's not growing into the game Cryptic claim they wanted, and its clearly because TEAM DYNAMICS got lost and broken in the focus! PLEASE, take the time to review and re-establish team dynamics, and do a detail debugging of the game before adding anymore new content. FIX IT AND FIX IT PROPERLY! I can't stress this enough!
Knights Of The Federation
Calm down, buddy. Here, have a baconcat picture.
Since I have never heard this strange belief that kinetic damage is somehow more aggro-grabbing than any other form of damage, AND he has no points in Threat Control to boot, I am pretty convinced this guy fails at his intended role in the game, too.
A torp-boat cruiser.
Without points in threat control.
Well, now I've heard everything...
Now, I play since S5. Even then neither tanks nor healers where needed for pve. Thats why I like this game better then those, where you need far more time to gether the right group for missions. Here you can switch a few BOs and fill pretty much everything in the spectrum.
And tbh, I never understood why tanking/healing and dps were exclusive to each other. It never was. If you think it is, than I congratulate you for being one of those Veterans, who think "knowing the game" means "playing it the longest". Just to make sure: It isnt.
And at the end you just start with "i am older then you, I know better", which is kind of the silliest argument any grown person could make. Face it, the game demands whats best, and if you do something else, its fine as long as you are in certain limits. With 2,x k you are on Pets-level.
And tbh, if you use team dynamics and "tanks dont heal", sry, I can only laugh, because if you are a tank, and cant tank, because someone else draws -for any reason- more aggro, and you cant toss him some heal because you are a tank (and not because you need it for yourself), thats kind of ironie. talking about dynamics while being as rigid as a corpse.
So, bottomline is, I am sry for you, as you seem to have never understood the game in the first place or -since I am only a S5-player- think very archaic.
no no no, he doesn't fail. everyone else fails. get it?
Wouldn't a Sci vessel be better? /off-topic
That's not necessarily a problem. Course, I'm not a fan of the MMO Trinity - so perhaps I don't see that in the same light as others. MMOs took something awesome from PnP RPGs and corrupted the Hell out of it, imho.
Positional tanks are one things - tanks that tell jokes about a mob's mother in the hopes of holding aggro are another. Tanking in MMOs is the most illogical thing I've ever encountered in gaming. Here is a target that it is absolutely the least threat on the field of battle that generates the most threat. It's ridiculous. You've got mobs that run empires that are a threat to the very existence of everybody else on the planet, yet they're going to ignore the DPS that are actually killing it and the healer that's keeping the meatshield alive while pound away on that meatshield? Those guys couldn't be the janitors at the enemy bases much less the guys running them.
Then we get into healing, eh? It's one thing in a "fantasy" setting with spellcasters and the like waving their wee wands to heal folks. It's another when you're in space and uh...yeah, uh.../facepalm.
It's one of the things that ruins the Star Trek aspect of STO...it's more EQ than ST.
That being said though, STO more than allows for folks to run the MMO Trinity - it's all there...
But it's not a requirement...which is a good thing, imho.
Folks that want to MMO Trinity-it-up in STO should get together, fly together, have a blast. The game allows for it.
Likewise, folks that want to run megaDPS builds should get together, fly together, have a blast. The game allows for that too.
Neither would have issue doing that.
Their issue with each other only comes about when they PUG and end up playing together. Two different styles that don't mesh...that don't sync.
You never know what you're going to get when you PUG, and imho, that's how folks that PUG should build. If they're building for something specific and they PUG, they've got nobody to blame but themselves...
Speaking as a 17-year-old nerd who can do 30K DPS in a DHC scimi...you are absolutely correct.
Age is irrelevant, and is not proportional to knowledge.
My Scimitar currently makes 10K DPS in a bad PUG in ISE, no sweat. I use protonic polaron DHCs and turrets, the Solanae set, and the Scimitar 3-piece set. No fancy doffs, no marion, no DEM.
I still hit 10k DPS even in a terrible PUG.
My Fed's C-store Avenger uses the weaksauce Avenger console, and the Solanae set, with the Romulan weapons set and a DBB/turret build, and gets 10K dps AND tanks almost as well as a Scimitar. My Ferengi eng has a free sovvie that can tank an entire ISE run and put out 6K DPS.
And I'm 17. Age is irrelevant.
Age isn't irrelevant, but it's not always relevant.
Agree.
"wow 16 years old and very mature sir".
That's a comment I received some time ago while chatting in OPVP. Quite surprised me. Sadly, sometimes many teenagers have childish behaviors...
STAR TREK ONLINE IS THE BEST STAR TREK GAME ON THE MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i now even with its problems its still the best.......and i tried every mmo out there sto is still my farvorite even thou the build styles have dipped lately......i dodnt think faction are that bad uneven simple put only thing i hate in the game atm is the battle cloak........ romulan dps is apost to be high honestly............the romulan battle cloak killed the klink faction saddly its own success was there down fall...... i allso only fly sci cap too with three tacts caps ....and for the most part the faction are even till it come to cloaks and assimulator's fed players do have access to some the best gear in game i now i never die to a romulan unless a couple veteran players of kerrat.... so man take a break and please quit rage quiting everyone... what ever happen to adapt or die or did we all get to old for that?
Sadly your definition stops too soon.
In popular usage, a minmaxer is someone who does the things you mention....and excludes other considerations.
While I concede your point that the vast majority of players engage in some aspects of minmaxing, that doesn't make the majority of players minmaxers.
And, to my original post, if I want to fly my Varanus and heal people....I will.
Because it's fun, not because it has maximal effect.
Third party programs that parse the combat log into usable, legible data.
No.
The Threat we deal is damage received times any modifiers like Threat Control or threat consoles. This is directly from a Dev's explanation of what the threat consoles do, back when the Fleet Embassy was added. NPCs target whoever has the most Threat, it's not complicated.
This also makes Kinetic weapons the least useful for dealing Threat if the target has shields up, since 75% of Kinetic damage it outright negated by shields.
It doesn't matter if you're fighting a target 10 seconds before me, if I deal 5 times your damage and neither of us have threat modifiers, I'll have aggro in 3 seconds.
Nigh-invulnerability does not make a tank. A "Tank" has two requirements: Survive Aggro, and Hold Aggro. A tank only needs enough survivability to not die. Excess survivability (recovery and defensive abilities that you never need to use) is superfluous, and inefficient when ship building is a zero-sum game.
Since STO has no aggro management abilities, the only way to hold aggro is by dealing threat, which is damage * multipliers. You obviously can't out-damage DPSers, that's why there's Threat Control and +Threat consoles. Given the existence of those, and the fact that most DPSers will have -Threat consoles, if you can't hold aggro you're just a bad tank.
Heck, my Engineering Captain in a Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier was an excellent tank, just by virtue of usually dealing enough damage to inadvertently hold aggro, and usually not dying while doing so. (All my deaths tend to be player error, when I get overconfident and refrain from popping Miracle Worker... or just plain forget to hit my OH SHI-! button.)