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Reputation System ... What's next ?
adorkabledori
Member Posts: 234 Arc User
With last Season already online for more then a month, what's your opinion about the overhauled Reputation Systems ?
IMO, it's fine and quickly to reach T5 with all whistles and bells. But I am also from opinion that it is enough now with the reputations. We have already : Omega, Nukera, New Romulus, Dyson and 8472 Reputation system. Another would be completly useless as a good mix of the already existing items and traits is sufficient for the existing missions in STO. I would rather have that they (Cryptic) would extend those existing reputation missions with more maps or other concepts.
What would appeal you the most ?
PS : When will the Klingons have a Armintage/Ar'kif like carrier, beside the JHEC.
IMO, it's fine and quickly to reach T5 with all whistles and bells. But I am also from opinion that it is enough now with the reputations. We have already : Omega, Nukera, New Romulus, Dyson and 8472 Reputation system. Another would be completly useless as a good mix of the already existing items and traits is sufficient for the existing missions in STO. I would rather have that they (Cryptic) would extend those existing reputation missions with more maps or other concepts.
What would appeal you the most ?
PS : When will the Klingons have a Armintage/Ar'kif like carrier, beside the JHEC.
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I'd like to be able to actively earn reputation by, I don't know, defeating enemies and completing PvE missions related to the rep. Even if they reward only a little bit of points, at least it feels like I'm making some sort of progress that isn't stuffed behind a freakin' timegate. :rolleyes:
I can't really see new reps as being relevant unless their traits or gear are even more powerful. And if that is the case then why did they bother capping traits in the first place. It is just replacing one kind of power creep for another.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Each "Rep" is tied to "Content"...so as they add new "Content", they'll add new "Rep" - more or less.
Figure two "Content" and two "Rep" a year...will be interesting to see how long they can maintain that - eh?
Then again, I've always found there to be two major flaws with how it's all handled anyway...
1) Content Difficulty is flat. You hit 50, doesn't matter which you pursue - they're all considered equivalent. There's no hierarchy.
2) You get the gear that's supposed to help you run the content better...er...once you've finished running the content countless times.
Typical MMO progression/gear progression on the other hand...
You run Dungeon A to get gear to help you run Dungeon B to get gear to help you run Dungeon C to get gear to help you run Raid A to get gear to help you run Raid B to get gear to help you run Raid C just in time for all the gear to be made useless because of an expansion with a level cap increase. Wheeeee!
STO on the other hand just gives you Raid A, Raid B, Raid C - where you can run any of them with the gear you've got to get gear that you don't need to run anything. All the gear helps you do is grind faster...so you can grind for something else to help you grind faster...so you can grind for something else to help you grind faster.
Heck, even if STO kind of split things a bit...where if you were running Rep Track A, you ran Mission A to get gear to run Dungeon A to get gear to run Raid A...where it didn't matter if you had all sorts of stuff from Raid B or Raid C, that it would be difficult without the gear from Mission A and Dungeon A to run Raid A...etc, etc, etc...it would be one thing.
But in the end, it's not much different from a game like Farmville/Farmerama/etc...where you're basically just going through the motions.
It's an extremely casual game...sometimes you'll be blowing up X and sometimes you'll be blowing up Y. Wheeeeee!
Er...anyway...
Heavy Raptor Carrier! The missing ZEN Raptor!
I agree. I slowly done the Undine reputation. Honestly, I don't use any of it's traits and the gear from it was sold to the nearest vendor. I don't plan to do it for the other characters as I did not plan to do it for this one. Other then easy dilithium.
So, ironically, I have a whole list of wasted reputation traits I never would use.
You fly Build X. Not everything is going to be relevant to Build X. Somebody with Build Y or Build Z might be looking at something else...it might be relevant to them.
I have 7 builds on 7 characters. All of them are different and all of them are way beyond what's needed for PvE. A couple of the ships are even good enough for PvP (though no match for the lockbox ships with 100 million EC attack pattern doffs).
There are only so many ways to skim the cat as they say. Frankly, there is already way too much complexity in terms of gear, stats, ships, boff layouts, doffs, etc. Despite all this complexity most builds fall into one of a few major categories like vape, aux2bat, science healer, torpedo boat, etc. Cookie cutter builds rule.
So I ask does it really matter if there is a new energy weapon or set bonus ... unless of course it is even more powerful than what we have now? Actually, you see this pattern with lockbox ships too. Witness the Undine Nicor with 3 lt cmd slots (swapping ensign for lt cmdr) and universal lt cmdr. They already have all the viable boff layouts covered and them some. So now they up the creep.
Fundamentally, it can't be sustained without a major revamp.
- Judge Aaron Satie
They rule what? They might have an appeal to folks doing PvP, trying to see how high they can parse, or trying to grind faster so they can grind faster so they can grind faster...er...
The overwhelming majority of the game has nothing to do with cookie cutter builds...they don't rule.
Fun rules.
Fleet T'varo wtih KHG and mixed Photon Torpedoes.
Kar'Fi with Dyson and Protonic Polaron Beams.
Varanus with Nukara and mixed Tetryon Beams.
Mogh with AKHG and Romulan Plasma Cannons.
Marauder with Borg and mixed Disruptor Beams.
B'rel with Solanae and Bio Phaser Cannons.
Mirror Qin with Omega and Antiproton Beams.
Guramba with Counter Assault and mixed Disruptor Cannons.
No cookie cutter min/max...just fun. It's a game.
What's the challenge? There has to be a challenge to keep things interesting. The way it is now, min-maxing or PvP is all there is. Are you telling me that doing ICE for the 10,000 time is actually exciting. I have only been here for < 2 years (actually took break for 4 months due to grind-a-versery. )
Okay, so having news ships and gear does generate some excitement. But is that all there is?
- Judge Aaron Satie
They really should listen to us consumers we are the ones that want the content.
What keeps things interesting for one person may not be what keeps thing interesting for another...even if one were to say a challenge is what is needed to keep things interesting, min/max and PvP are not the only challenges to be found.
People aren't all the same...
True, people aren't all the same ... What you find trivial, isn't trivial for another. My point is that with whatever reputation we have now, you can do everything in the game. Whether it's doing the Undine Space with the Omega Space Set, Romulan Traits and second hands (exchange Very Rare MK XII) weapons to the STF's with Nukera Space Set, Undine Traits and fleet weapons. Oh, don't tell me that with the next chapter and different hostile alien we need a new rep for special weapons, traits, gear, coz I fought the Undine, Borg, Voth for weeks with my Reman while my traits were blank and still I was able to nuke them to the other side of the galaxy. Instead of focusing on a new rep in the future, I would rather see more content, stories that follow up in long missions that are worth to replay.
At the risk of being unfunny, let me post my "speculated Lobi reputation" that I made up a few months ago.
It is a reputation that requires Lobi crystals instead of marks, and gives super OP powers. It seems to be the logical conclusion to Cryptic and reputations. People would have to pay for the keys to get the lobi, but they would be forced to do it for min-maxing.
The only reason for the Rep revamp was to able to add more reps.
Which I don't thing is a generally bad idea but I believe they adding to many new reps to quickly without ever fleshing them out.
I personally think they're trying too hard with their expansion concept. A traditional expansion doesn't usually add a lot of content to the game. It basically adds a new chapter to the current PVE. There may be bonuses, like new weapons, new outfits, a pet, or a new ability. But I remember when expansions used existing maps and didn't require whole new armor/weapon sets to finish them (or as the loot/reward). They would happen monthly or bimonthly or whatever (depending on the game) and the big ones with new maps and characters and stuff would be annual or less. PWE has convinced me that they have no idea what they're doing in terms conceptual development. They're really only making it more difficult for themselves in the long run.
Borg content: run Borg rep until t5, then Romulan content opens up as well as the Romulan rep.
Romulan Rep: Run Romulan content till Rep is t5, then the next and so on.
For every new content, the previous rep must be done first to t5 for the new content to open up.
Wouldn't that bring life back? Other than reverting the rep passives back to season 8 style?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: for whatever reason, the Omega rep is too heavily weighted in favour of the PvE queued events, and I can imagine that this does put some people off playing it. I'm not saying that the queued events are in any way a bad thing, but I wish that there was an alternate progression route for getting a hold of all that Omega and MACO gear.
*Sigh* To be honest, I'd say that the rep system needs a MASSIVE overhaul, with the main objective being to bring all the reps into line with each other in terms of implementation - enough queued events to keep that segment of the userbase happy, while at the same time providing a major space and/or ground zone of a type like the Dyson Sphere or Undine Battlezones.
That's my two cents, anyways ...
I doubt that would bring life back. If anything, it would put players off from creating new characters. What if all the gear and traits a player wants comes from the Dyson reputation chain (unlikely, but possible)? Now they have to wait until they've done all the previous reputations, which they don't care about thus making it not "fun," until they can begin working on the chain they actually care about. It turns the reputation system into an even more unnecessarily long grind session. Alternatively, it doesn't promote running the later reputations if all the gear and traits you want are in the first one.
It would make more sense to gate specific content within those reputations until a certain tier is reached. Omega reputation is limited to Defera Invasion and similar content until tier 2, which unlocks normal-rank STFs, then at tier 4 unlock Elite-rank STFs. This would require some rethinking of Mark rewards as the Defera invasion is barely worth the time and effort at the moment, and normal STFs aren't much better.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Rom T5 unlocks 10 chain missions designed around a new universal cloak.
Undine rep T5 unlocks 10 missions about a new undine infiltrator breed that has human DNA and unlocks a new playable undine hybrid toon.
And so on.
okay, thx
It's almost like they paid attention to players complaining about "Power Creep" and decided to offer equipment and powers that were equal to each other and valuable in certain situations rather that straight upgrades from whatever came before.
I guess that may be the biggest weakness - once you are done with a reputation grind, you have all the tools to make that grind easier. But you're done with the reputation, so there is no real need for them.
Of course, you may still go back to earn Dilithium (turning marks into Dil).
That said, the set items may have extra bonus against the specific enemy of the rep, but the sets are often interestnig on their own. Though I still find the Assimilated Set the most usefull, since it grants a good, free hull heal, and only costs you a deflector and an engine (easily the least relevant) to get that.
The Traits tend to be even more generic. Of course, you can ony slot a limited amount.
If people are seeing traits as the limiter, it seems we have room for 3 more reputations - 2 that grant a ground active, and a 4th with another space active.
I am mot certain I want an endgame content progression, to be honest. I like the ability to choose what to take on on a case by case basis, if they lock you into a progression (Dungeon A gives stuff for Dungeon B gives stuff for Dungeon C), that freedom is gone. I suppose the current take appeals to a "casual" player more.
Maybe they should design the reputation gear to be useful against both the current foe and against another type of foe from another reputation?
But while that would be nice-to-have, that's still all it is, without more challenging content. But also, even if the content was more challenging - can anyone think of a faction specific bonus that would really make a difference here? Something like 500 or 1000 points of radiation damage is just not such a significant leg up that you'd need it.
I think one of cryptic's biggest problem with creating more challenging content is their game's balance. That isn't just a PvP problem. It's also a think in PvE. The disparity between individual ships and players are far too high, due to imbalanced gear and powers. If they created more challenging content, even with special bonuses from rep gear, most players could simply not beat it. And those that could beat it would probably get bored fast because their choice in workable builds is too small.
But trying to balance STO... It's a messy thing. It's probably too late to get it right. Especially if thye always need to sell new gimmicky powers with every new ship.
That may be the case, but it's not what I'm getting at. I agree it's not the toughest to max out to T5 (almost managed it myself entirely through Borg Red Alerts and a lucky streak with getting Rep Mark Bonuses in lock boxes) but where it falls down is in getting hold of the Omega, MACO and Adapted MACO sets.
We have a situation in the rep system now where there are a number of distinct implementations:
- Nukara: No daily repeatable for large mark reward, ground adventure zone with reasonable reward per mission, no unique materials needed for crafting, small number of PvE queued events
- Romulan: Daily repeatable for large mark reward, ground adventure zone, no unique materials needed for crafting, small number of PvE queued events
- Dyson: No daily repeatable for large mark reward, extensive ground adventure zone with reasonable mark reward per area, unique materials needed for crafting available through adventure zones and PvE queue, small number of PvE queued events
- Undine: No daily repeatable for large mark reward, large space adventure zone with reasonable mark reward per area, unique materials needed for crafting available through adventure zone and PvE queue, small number of PvE queued events
- Omega: No daily repeatable for large mark reward (I don't count the Sector Red Alerts because it's possible to do a Red Alert in every applicable sector per day rather than one Red Alert only per day - compare to Tau Dewa Patrol), large ground adventure zone with small mark reward per task, unique materials needed for crafting available only through PvE queue, extensive number of PvE events
My personal issue is with the overall balancing of the Omega rep as compared to Dyson and Counter-Command (the others don't count for this comparison, as they have no special material requirements for rep items): unless you are ridiculously fortunate with reward boxes from Omega, there is no other way of acquiring the Neural Processors needed to get all the rep sets. This means that, if you do not want to play the PvE queued events, then you cannot get the set gear, since this is the only other way to get Neural Processors.
Compare this situation to both Counter-Command and Dyson - both these reps have queued events with unique materials as rewards in the Elite instances, same as Omega. However, both these reps' adventure zones culminate in a large-scale assault against powerful foes (the planet-killers for Counter-Command and the V-Rexes for Dyson) that reward these reps' unique materials upon completion. This way, everyone playing these reps gets a chance to get those reps' gear and both PvE players and soloists are happy.
Just to reiterate, I don't have a problem with the large quantity of Omega-themed PvE events. What I *do* have a problem with, is the lack of an alternate pathway to getting those unique materials. PWE have shown it can done with other reps - what's stopping them from tweaking the Omega rep to do the same, e.g. keep the queued events as they are, but turn Defera into a zone with a similar implementation to the Dyson and Counter-Command where players have the opportunity to acquire the materials they need to get the set gear, and give half-decent mark rewards along with it.
TL;DR, the rep balance is out, so why can't Omega be tweaked to give players a choice rather than forcing them into one particular play style?
A problem that I have with the Omega PVE's is that if you're not in a fleet or if your fleet is not currently online it's often very difficult to get in to those PVE's. I can't tell y'all how many times I've been booted off because not everyone accepted the mission start. I've also spent about 20 minutes playing the waiting game for others to join a queue. Having an expanded and more worthwhile Defera groundzone would be really nice.
For the most part I don't think we need new reputations, 5 is plenty. But I would appreciate an expanded gameplay to getting into the details of the Federation and the Klingon Empire. I want to see missions and things to do in Bajor, Vulcan, Andoria, Betazed etc. and I think it would be cool for players to have a reputation tier for "Worlds of the Federation". Right now other than a few episodes and a few foundry missions I have no reason to visit the iconic worlds of Star Trek. Getting to know the Great Houses of the Klingon Empire would just as awesome in my mind. We already have the Romulan Reputation to get some of that detail for the most iconically reclusive people in Star Trek (aside from the Tholians) but not for most of the traditional worlds.
I'm guessing we'll have a reputation system for the Delta Expansion so I don't know if I would want to see 8 reputation tiers to work on but I do want to have more to do within the Alpha Quadrant worlds we've always heard about.
Nay, nay and thrice nay. That just drags out the existing rep grind. Under the current system is that you can complete a daily mission for each rep, getting 70-120 marks for each, in about 75 minutes, and complete the whole system in around 10 such runs over 20 days (not counting grinding for gear, of course...).