Hardcapping DPS

jellico1

Not needed in PvP for starters

In PvE though bout 5000 DPS is all a team needs to complete elite content that isnt silly with ulsless unessary respawns which should be done away with in the first place

( undine battle zone ) for one

Cryptic wants to narrow the gap between its 90 day customer and the vet customer so they play well together and spend money

Hardcapping the DPS will really be good for the ( Noob ) 90 day customer because they wont feel so much like noobs /Win Win

On the other hand the Vet..........Will be able to now use the gimmick consoles....classic builds ( phasers/Photons )...........torpedos..........differnt builds .....lower tier ships.....and other foolishness and STILL make his/her 5000 DPS increasing their fun

The (Noobs) will still be struggling to make there 5000 DPS but will be close

Normal content the dps could be around 3k dps

These numbers feel good to me but perhaps they could be a little lower or higher

normal and eites could have hard caps and new level could be created without hard cap cal it the Heroc level or better

Normal
Hard.......................current elite
Elite.......................no hard cap

jellico1

making the current content more fun and more of a struggle is also goal with hard cap.......it keeps the content from becomming too easy for vet players

guriphu

Beam Overload.

noblet

The only thing worse than 1337 vaper whine is someone whinning to nerf others in pve for no benefit to themselves. Envy is a sin...;)

dahminus

Most assuredly needed.

This isn't a season update but an expansion...and I can only hope it happens.

Edit: I don't think hard capping is what we need...a severe nerfing to all equipment under the veil of an update...that's what we need.

catliketyping

so what is the point?

To tame DPS over time (i.e. FAW spam)? Or to limit short-term spikes? Because if there's a cap on what I can do with my torpedo boats in terms of spiking, then those ships are pretty much done.

I'm not built to slog it out like a cruiser, firing constant torpedo barrages.

jellico1

noblet wrote: »

The only thing worse than 1337 vaper whine is someone whinning to nerf others in pve for no benefit to themselves. Envy is a sin...;)

---

Envy what ? the 18k i pull out of my fed cruiser

The 30k dps from my romulan ar'kif

I dont need the other 4 people on my pug team i can do the stf all by myself... thats the problem

Arrogance is also a sin

trizeo1

jellico1 wrote: »

Not needed in PvP for starters

In PvE though bout 5000 DPS is all a team needs to complete elite content that isnt silly with ulsless unessary respawns which should be done away with in the first place

( undine battle zone ) for one

Cryptic wants to narrow the gap between its 90 day customer and the vet customer so they play well together and spend money

Hardcapping the DPS will really be good for the ( Noob ) 90 day customer because they wont feel so much like noobs /Win Win

On the other hand the Vet..........Will be able to now use the gimmick consoles....classic builds ( phasers/Photons )...........torpedos..........differnt builds .....lower tier ships.....and other foolishness and STILL make his/her 5000 DPS increasing their fun

The (Noobs) will still be struggling to make there 5000 DPS but will be close

Normal content the dps could be around 3k dps

These numbers feel good to me but perhaps they could be a little lower or higher

normal and eites could have hard caps and new level could be created without hard cap cal it the Heroc level or better

Normal
Hard.......................current elite
Elite.......................no hard cap

Greetings,

This sounds like what we are doing in the Star Trek Battles channel.

We do all the missions with lower dps and this has given us a reason to fly all kinds of ships without having to worry about maxing them. We also stick to Feds using ORANGE phasers! hahaha!

It is more fun IMO, what's not fun about taking 5 connies into ISE? AND finishing it!... feels like we actually earned the rewards for a change.

fmgtorres1979

The game is not supposed to be good for the noob, the game is supposed to be a nightmare for a new player. It's that way that a person goes about asking questions and searching for ways to get better.

jellico1

catliketyping wrote: »

so what is the point?

To tame DPS over time (i.e. FAW spam)? Or to limit short-term spikes? Because if there's a cap on what I can do with my torpedo boats in terms of spiking, then those ships are pretty much done.

I'm not built to slog it out like a cruiser, firing constant torpedo barrages.

---

The point would be to make the current content relevant to the newer players and the vet players togerher at te same time without having to revamp all current content

it would be easier to hard cap the player dps.....thn to go into each pve content and change it

Without noobs staying in the game and spennding money in the game the game cannot earn the profit it needs to survive

prierin

Not sure I understand the need for a hard cap. Especially in PvE.

At lvl 50 I enjoy my DPS. I love to sneak in to position with my scimitar, clocked, and beat the living hell out of whatever it is I am fighting before uncloaking and finishing it off, if it survived the initial barrage. I have, and shall continue, to bulk up my DPS with not thing in mind: kill it before it has a chance to kill you, move on, rinse and repeat.

Now, PvP I can see the need for balancing, but don’t think a cap is the right tool. Cryptic can build in triggers to limit unbalanced PvP, such as a 5 lvl difference cap in challenges (useless when everyone’s lvl 50) or perhaps have a defence/dps rating running in the background so players going head to head as evenly matched as possible.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the OP here. Why cap DPS at all?

EDIT: And not to forget, there IS a paramount difference between NOOBS and NEWBS. I am hoping you took that difference into consideration when writing your original post.

doffingcomrade

The notion of "capping" DPS is simply absurd. DPS is a composite, empirically measured value. It cannot be determined in advance to be capped. Asking for DPS to be "capped" makes about as much sense as asking for the maximum amount of EC someone can earn in a day to be capped. How would this even work? Do you just suddenly stop being able to do any damage at all once you've fired enough shots? This very notion is absurd.

dahminus

doffingcomrade wrote: »

The notion of "capping" DPS is simply absurd. DPS is a composite, empirically measured value. It cannot be determined in advance to be capped. Asking for DPS to be "capped" makes about as much sense as asking for the maximum amount of EC someone can earn in a day to be capped. How would this even work? Do you just suddenly stop being able to do any damage at all once you've fired enough shots? This very notion is absurd.

You should try final fantasy....hmm...if every shot is 999...

As for ec per day...refined dilithium per day cap?

Sorry, I'm just tired

warmaker001b

Hardcapping damage output is most assuredly a kick square to the nuts of Ecorts or anything with LtCdr or higher TAC stations.

The sole reason for the existence for Escorts is damage dealing, and you're going to cap their performance for doing what they're supposed to do?

Then what about Raiders? They do not do large, steady outputs of damage but have to go for large spikes.

???

mightybobcnc

Eh, I disagree with the OP. Considering the atrocious reading comprehension skills of most average players and the overall lack of in-game documentation, I'd rather be able to carry a team of 3-4 noobs than be punished for using the PvE Queue with PUGs that don't know what to do or how to gear a ship.

doffingcomrade

dahminus wrote: »

You should try final fantasy....hmm...if every shot is 999...

That is a cap on maximum damage per hit, not a cap on DPS. If a cap were applied per-shot, the countermove to increase DPS would be to switch to rapid-fire weapons that fire more bullets per shot, and to use more weapons and powers in order to get more shots. Your own example illustrates exactly this behavior: If the maximum damage I can cause per shot is only, say, 500, I'll just switch to turrets and spam 360-degree turret pellets for moar DPSes.

dahminus wrote: »

As for ec per day...refined dilithium per day cap?

Dilithium isn't even EC, so immaterial. Yes, there is a cap on how much you can refine...per toon...but there is no obstacle preventing you from creating more toons, or even more accounts. Minerals-per-day is a composite measure, just as "Damage Per Second" is a composite measure. You can cap any component of the measurement, but you can't cap a composite.

reginamala78

Dramatically dialing back the DPS would be wonderful, but something as clumsy as a simple hard cap would probably be a pretty terrible way to do it. As it is I've come to dread running STFs, as my ship choices are either a 20k beastie that keeps up but I despise flying (or flying next to), or a 5k platform that I love but is so comparatively useless I may as well just AFK the whole thing. Either way it makes for crappy mission (if you can call 2 minute runs a 'mission.') However, simply capping things at say 10k or so, people would simply minmax up to reach that limit with ease, and then still load up on other stuff to the max with all the now-free space. 10k drain boat? 10k healer? What are tacs supposed to do when they reach that limit without trying, and have nothing else TO do? You just trade one form of stagnation and munchkining for another.

In spirit I'd be totally for something to dial it all way the hell back, but mechanically I'm not sure how you'd do it without seriously restructuring large parts of the game (and large parts of the C-store business model). Bad ideas are bad, even if they have decent intentions.

riccardo171

You want to hardcap my Scimitar that properly buffed with DEM and Marion has ludicrous DPS in those 8 seconds? Ok bad example

You can't pretend ANY damage dealing ship, namely those with a Comm tac station to be capped because you can't reach their levels yet. Get good gear, ask them about their build, improve, ?????, profit.

It looks like you want high DPSers capped at ypur level because you can't get to them...

doffingcomrade

reginamala78 wrote: »

However, simply capping things at say 10k or so, people would simply minmax up to reach that limit with ease, and then still load up on other stuff to the max with all the now-free space. 10k drain boat? 10k healer? What are tacs supposed to do when they reach that limit without trying, and have nothing else TO do? You just trade one form of stagnation and munchkining for another.

Wouldn't even work, either. What happens when I take a ship, fill it up with 10K in energy weapons, then throw on some DEM and a TBR ripper beam? I've just broken your cap. Maybe I'll install a torpedo, and get more DPSes out of Omega Kinetic Shredding. What do you do about that? The notion is just flawed at its core. You can nerf any one component which causes sky-high damage numbers, but the notion that you can "cap DPS" simply isn't even possible.

lordsteve1

You can't just put a cap on damage output because it is generated in so many different ways you'd be bound to TRIBBLE it up and completely break something.

Plus certain build rely on putting out huge damage in a short period and then very little whilst boff skills are on cool down (anything built for doing a cloaked alpha strike). That's what escorts are meant to be doing, run in cause some serious hurt and the run off again to recharge.

If you want to stop insane amounts of dps then you have to look at how people are achieving those numbers and then look at what can be done.
One example is people running BFAW boats with 3 purple VR techs so they have FAW running almost 100% of the time. That is the sort of thing that could be stopped simply by putting a limit on how many techs you can slot.
I mean in my sci boats i can only slot one deflector officer to reduce my cooldown on grav wells etc, but a tac boat can run with some skills on pretty much constantly?!

reginamala78

doffingcomrade wrote: »

Wouldn't even work, either. What happens when I take a ship, fill it up with 10K in energy weapons, then throw on some DEM and a TBR ripper beam? I've just broken your cap. Maybe I'll install a torpedo, and get more DPSes out of Omega Kinetic Shredding. What do you do about that? The notion is just flawed at its core. You can nerf any one component which causes sky-high damage numbers, but the notion that you can "cap DPS" simply isn't even possible.

Right, but I didn't want to spend an hour writing out a 3 page response of all the little mechanical stuff when the short version of 'heart might be in the right place, but it'd never work' is simple enough to make the point. *shrugs* Nor does it really account for differences in people, the ones who wanna take it laid back vs the max-number guys who can't fathom that people might not want to be like them, vs all the other playstyles out there. There's a million variables out there, and no one tweak is gonna just make it all better. (I think we're generally in agreement, just coming at it from different angles.)

eulifdavis

Cryptic lost literally THOUSANDS of Gold subscriptions the day Season 9 released, and that was a relatively small nerf. What do you think will happen if they try to rein things in the way you're proposing? :mad:

nightken

eulifdavis wrote: »

Cryptic lost literally THOUSANDS of Gold subscriptions the day Season 9 released, and that was a relatively small nerf. What do you think will happen if they try to rein things in the way you're proposing? :mad:

wait... they had thousands of subs after season 8. this is news to me.

jellico1

i am not sure how capping dps can be done either i just see a need for it

As a vet player i can push out some long strings of high dps using the items /skills/boffs/doffs that i have picked up in the game over time

one player destroying a tactical cube in less than 10 seconds ir 6 spheres in less than 10 seconds make the game a joke...............this is our soposed end game content

perhaps capping super high dps isnt possible in the game ....IDK

perhaps putting hgh dps triggers on npcs is....triggering FBP/tss3/epts3/tkr3

installing high damage triggers may be the way to go

A reverse Valdore console on a npc might work the larger the energy hit the more shield reinforcement it gets



The mechanics of the valdore console is what inspired me in the first place

riccardo171

jellico1 wrote: »

i am not sure how capping dps can be done either i just see a need for it

As a vet player i can push out some long strings of high dps using the items /skills/boffs/doffs that i have picked up in the game over time

one player destroying a tactical cube in less than 10 seconds ir 6 spheres in less than 10 seconds make the game a joke...............this is our soposed end game content

perhaps capping super high dps isnt possible in the game ....IDK

perhaps putting hgh dps triggers on npcs is....triggering FBP/tss3/epts3/tkr3

installing high damage triggers may be the way to go

A reverse Valdore console on a npc might work the larger the energy hit the more shield reinforcement it gets



The mechanics of the valdore console is what inspired me in the first place

A reverse Valdore so they just got unkillable correct? Someone to solo a Tac Cube in ISE in 10 seconds? High DPSers should be capped? On what planet do you live? This is the worst nonsense post I've ever read. There's not a single shred of logic.

erei1

So, in simple words, instead of trying to balance the game, and bring the "newbs" to our level, you bring people that spent hours working on their setup and parser to their "newbs" level.
Great way to do it !

Let me uninstall this game.

If I wanted to have 5K dps and use console, I would do it. In fact, sometimes I do it. Well I usually have more than 5k, but I still have a low DPS wells, and vo'quv (I can't make it DPS more than 8-9K, I'm ashamed).
I don't need someone to come and nerf my fun because he knows better than me what I enjoy to do.
Thank you very much.

hravik

Because heaven forbid the devs would spend time making content that's actually challenging.

The obvious, and better solution is to take a machete to everyone's ship that does more than an arbitrary amount of DPS. Because hot dang, I really want to keep doing the same, tired, old content, just now with new and exciting artificial limits on what I can do!

tarastheslayer

Why not revamp the old content to bring it up to par? The issues I have with missions are that everyone seems to have this self-entitlement to doing the elite versions of missions from the day they hit 50. I'd like to go back to the days where running Elite was an achievement in itself and has the challenge to justify it.

That's where we are going wrong, Elite missions and content (even normal missions like the story missions with the difficulty on Elite should be similar) need a big buff and the normals scaled up a tad to account for new lower standards.

That's the problem solver, not to nerf everything. Some things might need nerfing but we're comparing all the new tech to much older content made to suit a game that was very different at the time. Now so much stuff has been changed, revamped and the standard maybe finally set, it might be a good time to see if revamping those old missions is a good use of time.

bones1970

eulifdavis wrote: »

Cryptic lost literally THOUSANDS of Gold subscriptions the day Season 9 released, and that was a relatively small nerf. What do you think will happen if they try to rein things in the way you're proposing? :mad:

I lost all other fleet-leaders and all staff-officers with season 9.
Im still here because im at 240.940 engineering at star-base my tier 5 star-base.

jockey1979

eulifdavis wrote: »

Cryptic lost literally THOUSANDS of Gold subscriptions the day Season 9 released, and that was a relatively small nerf. What do you think will happen if they try to rein things in the way you're proposing? :mad:

Source ?

Proof ?

Seem to be as many, if not more people about in sector to me, perhaps you play at the wrong time of day ?