test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Torpdeos and AP beta

vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
edited May 2014 in Klingon Discussion
Hey all

So I am trying to do a bop with all torpedos and mines and it's just for pve so nothing too serious.

But the thing is about attack pattern beta. I read somewhere you have to hit target for damage resistance to start working.

Was thinking is this a bad idea for torpedos? Should I have some turret or oblisk turret beam or whatever on, to always be able to hit target fast and constant?

I already have 2 torpedo and 1 mine ability on tac boffs, so if not AP beta I don't know what to put in the last 2 boff slots?

Would I be better off using AP omega?

Then about that I also always wondered, what is the up and downside to using say HY III + AP beta I vs the opposite, HY I with AP beta III?

If you have equal skillpoints in both, which one is better?

Thanks
Post edited by vestereng on

Comments

  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Attack Pattern Beta for PvE is often a really good choice, even for torpedoes, since the damage bonus is rather massive compared to the same rank of Attack Pattern Omega. Unfortunately however, Beta is woefully inadequate for PvP, or in situations where there are a lot of Attack Pattern Betas being used.

    I've never really done hard math, but usually anything beyond the third Attack Pattern Beta stack on an NPC probably isn't as useful as an Omega.

    So my recommendation is that you load up on Omega for the damage and defense/mobility bonuses and let everyone else cast Beta for you, since everyone likely has Beta anyway.

    For AP Omega, I would use Omega 3 and TS III. Definitely go for Torpedo Spread, as it guarantees that your torpedoes will never miss. If you have no way of getting Omega 3 to global Cooldown, just use 2 copies of Omega 1 and TS II.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Can work well if you combine the torps with something to 'share the love' of your Beta prior to the torp impact. My normal NWS setup is Scatter Volley 1 plus Beta 3, which marks up all the targets before the Spread 3 actually impacts. The one catch is that Beta only reduces hull resists, not shield hardness, so you need to either pound through the shields or use something that goes around them (DEM or plasma burns for example) to get any use out of it. If you're just doing regular damage, Omega's straight-up boost will help you bring the shields down faster. It depends on your weapon type and your target.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    DEM only benefits Energy Weapons to get to the hull, so it's useless for Torps.

    Even Omega Kinetic Shearing is pointless if the shields are still up, since the DOT is based on damage getting to the hull, which is always miniscule with shields up.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    If you're running a straight Kinetic build, just go for the highest rank of APO you can get your hands on. Torpedo boats are all about maximizing your critical damage(my old Quantum shield-slammer could crit for around 80k, my Plasma boat can go up to 150k).

    If you have the tactical bridge slots to to spare and really want to fit APB, then yes, you'll probably want a disruptor weapon of some sort. The disruptor proc and ABP will both stack and increase hull damage that much more.

    Personally, I prefer to leave the APB debuffs to proper energy weapon-based ships and work alongside them. Torpboats are simply a tool that works better as part of a group than by themself.


    As for High Yield: It's a like Beam Overload; you're going for the highest crit possible, so use the highest rank of it that you can. It will usually mean the difference of about 10-15k damage on a solid torp crit.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well the main idea is to only use mines and torpedos since I fly a b'rel bop.

    I loaded it up with mines and torpedos with no torpedos aft so I fire and start turning the ship to cloak again.
    Not carrying any shield heals I am relying on the cloak to keep me alive.

    The fun for me being utilizing enhanced cloaking not that I don't want damage or survivability but is just what I am enjoying at the moment.

    Right now problem is getting their shields down I'd say. What can tyken's rift do to shields?

    I am using tractor beam repulsors and tractor mines I don't know if it's possible to buff or add doff abilities on top - that are useful, I have noticed the repulsor chance to drain engine power doff.

    I also noticed tractor beam mines will do damage so I was thinking if you could buff that with flow cap or particle gen or whatever, probably too good to be true same as adding drain shield with tractor beam to the tractor mines...

    But yeah I don't know what to do about those shields. Fire tricobalt mines and try to time a hit for the 3 seconds disabled window?

    I also thought about getting aceton assimilator but I don't know how effective it is against shields.
    Wiki just says it drains x energy.

    Then there is the shield destabilizer with a 3 minute cooldown that could have been useful.
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited May 2014
    I get ideas and run them through Tau Dewa Patrol (Elite difficulty) since i spend most of my time in Dyson space these days, so not much travel time to get to a patrol location.

    Shield killing? I used to run a Transphasic ship a lot (plus kinetic shearing) to avoid shield issues. RR transphasics, Breen Cluster, Gravimetric photon.

    I noted that i tended to use the grav torp more and more. So i decided to go full Photon. Dyson set plus the new Enhanced bio torp. I dont need to strip shields... i just crit for tens of thousands instead.

    Not that Transphasics are bad... i am just having more fun with specialty photons.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    If you have the breen space set and use transphasic tac consoles, those transphasic mines do 80% shield penetration, plus the breen set damage boost and the tac consoles. Maybe you could not worry about the shields and just use transphasic weapons?

    Using mines is a little tricky, since you have to get in close to use them. Now, the hot pursuit trait helps to extend their range to about 5km, but that's still within tractor beam range, which is not something a B'Rel wants to see as a stationary B'Rel isn't a very surviveable condition.

    I used to run a transpahsic setup with dual mines in the back, 2 clustermine torpedoes and 2 rapid reloads up front. Get in close, launch a mine, a cluster-mine, and 1 rapid reload torpedo, then turn and get out to about 7km, if noone takes agro, don't get within 5km if you can do it. Hopefully, you are moving so fast, only a rapid reload torpedo is ready to be launched and hopefully someone else takes aggro before the next attack run is on.
  • jaegernljaegernl Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I get ideas and run them through Tau Dewa Patrol (Elite difficulty) since i spend most of my time in Dyson space these days, so not much travel time to get to a patrol location.

    Shield killing? I used to run a Transphasic ship a lot (plus kinetic shearing) to avoid shield issues. RR transphasics, Breen Cluster, Gravimetric photon.

    I noted that i tended to use the grav torp more and more. So i decided to go full Photon. Dyson set plus the new Enhanced bio torp. I dont need to strip shields... i just crit for tens of thousands instead.

    Not that Transphasics are bad... i am just having more fun with specialty photons.

    I'm gonna agree here. The two Photon torps (Gravimetric and Enhanced Bio) are powerhouses. I slot HY2 and Spread 3 - HY2 for the Enhanced Bio (Highest so far is 70k) and Spread 3 for the Gravimetric, to spam rifts. Make sure you spec Particle Generators with that one, though, because the damage the rifts do is Particle Gen related. Add in maybe a high hitter - I've found not much wrong with the cooldown on Bio-Neural at the moment, because my Photons just fire all the time anyway - and some funky mines.

    Anyway, OP, if I could recommend anything at the moment, it would be Tactical Team 1/ High Yield 2 / Spread 3 / Dispersal Pattern Beta 3 or Attack Pattern: Omega 3 if you're not using mines.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Devotion Paladin
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    vestereng wrote: »
    Well the main idea is to only use mines and torpedos since I fly a b'rel bop.

    I loaded it up with mines and torpedos with no torpedos aft so I fire and start turning the ship to cloak again.
    Not carrying any shield heals I am relying on the cloak to keep me alive.

    The fun for me being utilizing enhanced cloaking not that I don't want damage or survivability but is just what I am enjoying at the moment.

    Right now problem is getting their shields down I'd say. What can tyken's rift do to shields?

    I am using tractor beam repulsors and tractor mines I don't know if it's possible to buff or add doff abilities on top - that are useful, I have noticed the repulsor chance to drain engine power doff.

    I also noticed tractor beam mines will do damage so I was thinking if you could buff that with flow cap or particle gen or whatever, probably too good to be true same as adding drain shield with tractor beam to the tractor mines...

    But yeah I don't know what to do about those shields. Fire tricobalt mines and try to time a hit for the 3 seconds disabled window?

    I also thought about getting aceton assimilator but I don't know how effective it is against shields.
    Wiki just says it drains x energy.

    Then there is the shield destabilizer with a 3 minute cooldown that could have been useful.

    Tyken's bypasses shields and does direct hull damage, although it's a fairly minor amount, even with particle gens.

    You can turn tractor beams and repulsors into weapons with particle gens(I highly recommend slotting in Isometric Charge if you go this route and have it). Again, however, this damage mostly bypasses shields.

    The only good way I've seen to reliably take out shields via kinetic-only builds is with a quantum shield-slammer, but that doesn't really synergize with the cloak and dagger style of B'rels.

    Really, your goal should be shield-bypass. Given the hit and run method, you should probably be aiming for Transphasics. The Breen set makes them quite dangerous - especially with DPB Mines and/or the cluster torp(I used to run a chel grett that used repulsors to push ships into mine walls and timed it with cluster torps - absolutely lethal).

    Photons are nice if you're running a ship that is always facing your target and can take the heat. Plasmas are a bit too dangerous for a fragile BoP, in my opinion(I do shudder to think what a HY3 Omega Plasma Bolt crit could do with a flanking bonus though).
Sign In or Register to comment.