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Dear Cryptic, Is Console Swapping a Feature or Exploit?

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  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    cloaking players have used things like this forever

    cloak/ ground or space

    switch kits or consoles weapons shields ect

    Return to battle with unfair advantages

    Allowing a player to switch or add anything once on a combat map is totally wrong and should not be allowed
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • fonz71fonz71 Member Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    b4 they put the idic tribble in the cstore, i tried to scrap the one i had, reclaim one, put it on a boff and then try to claim the one from my recycle bin...

    it wouldn't work. the game would only allow me to have one idic tribble. i know there are other things in game that only allows us to have one.

    why can't these consoles be the same? that would solve all this console swapping bs.
    Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
  • jaegernljaegernl Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    fonz71 wrote: »
    b4 they put the idic tribble in the cstore, i tried to scrap the one i had, reclaim one, put it on a boff and then try to claim the one from my recycle bin...

    it wouldn't work. the game would only allow me to have one idic tribble. i know there are other things in game that only allows us to have one.

    why can't these consoles be the same? that would solve all this console swapping bs.

    This sounds like a reasonable option to me. Especially now that we have load-out options, having just one console like Isometric would work.

    Could be problematic with lockbox console rewards, though, but then again, that could just be fixed by putting them in a reward pack.

    Would also help prevent an Alpha Deception Field fiasco in the future.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Devotion Paladin
  • kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    they should just lower the useless 3 min cd to 90 seconds for MOST combat consoles....and 3 mins for Thaloron Pulse XD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    cynder2012 wrote: »
    they should just lower the useless 3 min cd to 90 seconds for MOST combat consoles....

    Folks would still exploit the ability to use it three times during that 90s timeframe...it would just make it easier for them to exploit it without carrying all the copies they'd need to exploit it for the 3min timeframe.
  • caldannachcaldannach Member Posts: 485 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Its an exploit. Simple as that.

    People that use this method of avoiding full cooldowns, because Cryptic probably can't or won't figure out a way of making it unswappable without affecting PVE. Probably because pvp isn't profit generating for them. Remember this fact though;

    You need a crutch to be competitive, and you can say what you like about how its a 'feature' to justify your crutch, its still a crutch.

    Enjoy.
    " Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Supper bosted explot that everyone uses shamelessly and liberally.

    Now with special sauce.
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  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    caldannach wrote: »
    Its an exploit. Simple as that.

    People that use this method of avoiding full cooldowns, because Cryptic probably can't or won't figure out a way of making it unswappable without affecting PVE. Probably because pvp isn't profit generating for them. Remember this fact though;

    You need a crutch to be competitive, and you can say what you like about how its a 'feature' to justify your crutch, its still a crutch.

    Enjoy.

    For starters - hate to break it to you this game isn't about PvP so yes, PvP will ALWAYS take a back seat to PvE needs. Accept it, and you can move on.

    Secondly, if you think somethings an exploit? Posting it on the forums tends to never be a great idea...

    That said, this isn't exactly an exploit but it's an annoying little thing people do and having it set to 1 per character would be perfect, solving this problem pretty fast.
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    askray wrote: »
    For starters - hate to break it to you this game isn't about PvP so yes, PvP will ALWAYS take a back seat to PvE needs. Accept it, and you can move on.

    Nothing personal Askray, but try telling that to the million or so posts that seem to think that down here we are all 'evil PvPers' who are basically Grima Wormtongue manipulating and controlling the devs to nerf everything that we don't like...evilly of course. Most, if not all of us here have long understood that very point, but so many (at least on the forums) seem to think of us as some 'evil' group trying to ruin their day.

    But honestly, this isn't really a PvE vs PvP issue. It's a game mechanics issue. People shouldn't be allowed to basically circumvent the 3 minute CD on consoles. It was done this way on purpose by the devs as a balance for console powers.

    Also what it's called doesn't matter either. Because to me, it needs to be fixed or changed.

    However, if this is actually intentional by the devs, then they need to simply make the standard CD, and shared CD, on all of these types of powers 30 seconds, then nerf them all greatly (because of the shorter CD) to be much more in-line with everything else.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • borrowedtuneborrowedtune Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    askray wrote: »
    For starters - hate to break it to you this game isn't about PvP so yes, PvP will ALWAYS take a back seat to PvE needs. Accept it, and you can move on.

    You felt the need to come into the PvP forums to say this? Hate to break it to you but this is where PvP is discussed.

    Do you also go around to the forums of other, under represented communities and flame them? How about the foundry forum? I bet their community is even smaller and therefore their opinions would matter even less. Might want to get to work on Klingons and RP'ers, too.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    askray wrote: »
    For starters - hate to break it to you this game isn't about PvP so yes, PvP will ALWAYS take a back seat to PvE needs. Accept it, and you can move on.

    I think you're posting that to the wrong folks. The PvP folks knows the game is not about PvP. They know that PvP takes a back seat to PvE needs. They're not the ones confused by changes that take place, thinking that a tiny part of the game community playing a tiny part of the game is responsible for so many changes. They're not the folks that need acceptance so they can move on...those folks are that way:
    >

    It doesn't mean that they should stop reporting issues though...

    Besides, it is not a PvP issue. It's a game issue. It affects both PvE and PvP.
    askray wrote: »
    Secondly, if you think somethings an exploit? Posting it on the forums tends to never be a great idea...

    No doubt the terminology could be worded in a prettier manner, but at the end of the day when you're saying that something appears to be a bug and that folks are using that bug to their favor...whether you're calling it an exploit or not, you're talking about exploits. While there isn't that great of a tendency for folks out there to report too many bugs that favor the player (too many players enjoy exploiting those bugs) - reporting those bugs is effectively talking about exploits.

    Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), one of the best ways to get said bugs resolved is to report them in the bugs section or to share them with friends over in the PvE side of the game. As the number of folks that exploit the issue massively swells, Cryptic tends to address it.

    And again, it gets addressed not because it is a PvP issue; but mainly because it is a PvE issue. As you pointed out, "this game isn't about PvP"... Almost all changes come about because of PvE issues, but the PvP folks will get blamed for pointing them out. The real kicker of a question that arises there is...why weren't all the PvE folks pointing the issue out?

    Really, it's kind of sad...
    askray wrote: »
    That said, this isn't exactly an exploit but it's an annoying little thing people do and having it set to 1 per character would be perfect, solving this problem pretty fast.

    How would it not be defined as somebody using a bug in their favor - and - thus an exploit?

    Console A has Clicky X with Cooldown AX. The use of X is meant to incur AX before X can be used again. Switching to Console B, so you can use X again while ignoring AX because you're looking at Cooldown BX instead...would not be an exploit?

    And again: It's not an issue that is simply a PvP issue. It's a game issue, as it affects both PvE and PvP.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    deokkent wrote: »
    I hope that's not cryptic's opinion as well.

    Nah, read his signature. The various mods are entitled to their respective opinions, etc, etc, etc - it leads to some funny things from time to time when they do their own brand of "WTF, Cryptic, really?" Heh...
  • ssb64ssb64 Member Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What about not being able to replace consoles that are on cd ?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Achiever Killers often look to 1v1 duels for proof of their superior play and are frustrated by "rock paper scissor" game mechanics."
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  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Nothing personal Askray, but try telling that to the million or so posts that seem to think that down here we are all 'evil PvPers' who are basically Grima Wormtongue manipulating and controlling the devs to nerf everything that we don't like...evilly of course. Most, if not all of us here have long understood that very point, but so many (at least on the forums) seem to think of us as some 'evil' group trying to ruin their day.

    But honestly, this isn't really a PvE vs PvP issue. It's a game mechanics issue. People shouldn't be allowed to basically circumvent the 3 minute CD on consoles. It was done this way on purpose by the devs as a balance for console powers.

    Also what it's called doesn't matter either. Because to me, it needs to be fixed or changed.

    However, if this is actually intentional by the devs, then they need to simply make the standard CD, and shared CD, on all of these types of powers 30 seconds, then nerf them all greatly (because of the shorter CD) to be much more in-line with everything else.
    I've also posted, and said on numerous radio shows, that the pvp group of people don't control the game mechanics of STO :P Sure, you find things better than the PvE players but it's not all pvp.
    You felt the need to come into the PvP forums to say this? Hate to break it to you but this is where PvP is discussed.

    Do you also go around to the forums of other, under represented communities and flame them? How about the foundry forum? I bet their community is even smaller and therefore their opinions would matter even less. Might want to get to work on Klingons and RP'ers, too.
    I'm actually fully aware of this forum and what it's for. It's been here since beta This isn't me flaming this is me explaining when people scream, nag and go on about pvp this and pvp that to say flat out, Sorry this game HAS a pvp element sure but the majority of players play for the PvE aspect. That's a proven fact. And it's not because pvp isn't done right, and yes it can be a lot better than it is currently, but it's just how the game worked out to be. As for klingons and rp'ers - those that know me know my opinion on them so I don't need to go into it. And btw I do foundry stuff, and pvp, and do pve also have a klingon and have rp'ed so actually I'm involved in all facets of this community :)

    My opinion is as such my own and I can say as I please just like anyone else and I've been also very critical about Cryptic and PWE in posts, on air, off air and in person. Sure, there are things I want to say but they'd lead to warnings/infractions of myself and I've kinda learned to restrain myself :P

    And yes, you guys SHOULD report issues everyone should, that said again if you THINK it's an exploit it does NOT belong on the forums. Any exploit should be reported in game using the bug feature then if you get a ticket id honestly you should pm it towards smirk and trendy as if it's critical they can get it looked at and going. I've also seen people that abused exploits to no end get banned so I wouldn't suggest using them but hey if you think you can get away with it, no skin off my back :P. I do agree that PvE players need to report more issues instead of just abusing it till pvp players use it and low and behold they get blamed for it. But that's just not realistic to ever think it'll happen.

    As for why I don't call this an exploit it's a bit hard to explain but I'll try. The fix for the cool down issues is the global 30 second cool down on swapping. This seems like a generic "lets patch it all" kind of thing which works in most cases. So yes the idea works fine, but for this console it does not and it needs something else.... Plus, if i call this an exploit it the thread needs to be removed thus not getting any attention unless people report it and such hehe.
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
    Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113


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  • zorena#3961 zorena Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    askray wrote: »
    For starters - hate to break it to you this game isn't about PvP so yes, PvP will ALWAYS take a back seat to PvE needs. Accept it, and you can move on.

    Secondly, if you think somethings an exploit? Posting it on the forums tends to never be a great idea...

    That said, this isn't exactly an exploit but it's an annoying little thing people do and having it set to 1 per character would be perfect, solving this problem pretty fast.

    **** game design is ****ty and placing the tag this is a "PVE Game" is only done by players. Just because systems/gecko can't do it properly doesn't mean it should be in the game.
    Noone.
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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Hm, im pretty sure the 30 second global is a by product of the ground fix and was never designed to even actually address the space swap issue. They have always been silent.

    Therefore I cant consider the issue itself resolved without a dev saying "the 30 second timer is our fix of the space related console swap issue"

    I just dont see them having actually addressed the space issue at all.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    deokkent wrote: »
    Ok I'm getting confused all over. Was the 30 sec cool down restriction to prohibit some ground swaps exploits only or not? Are you saying cryptic did this for space as well lol?

    Time to read some patch notes to see for myself... Damn.

    April 22nd, 2014 notes...

    Powers:
    ---Equipping an item with a rechargeable power will now trigger a thirty second cooldown on that power.
    This lockout period prevents unfair advantages gained by cycling multiple copies of a given item.
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  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    deokkent wrote: »
    http://community.arcgames.com/fr/prod/star-trek-online/news/detail/3042903-release-notes_-april-22_-2014

    Says it's a lockout period for rechargeable items, it doesn't specify ground or space. ]

    See this quote below:
    I think 30 seconds fixes all kit-swapping exploits. I think 30 seconds could also fix all console-swapping exploits, possibly if Battle Cloak and Enhanced Battle Cloak leave the user in combat as long as they're on.

    The primary purpose of the added 30 second cooldown was because of a Ground PvP issue with players intentionally in combat switching kits/devices via a script in order to reset cooldowns.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Personally, I consider console-swapping to be an exploit. I was hoping the 30 second on-swap CD would make it substantially less optimal behavior and might thereby fix it. I will nuke it from orbit as soon as I can - it just means we can't do cool things like make set bonuses that reduce the cooldown of a given console power, etc.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Personally, I consider console-swapping to be an exploit. I was hoping the 30 second on-swap CD would make it substantially less optimal behavior and might thereby fix it. I will nuke it from orbit as soon as I can - it just means we can't do cool things like make set bonuses that reduce the cooldown of a given console power, etc.

    Thanks for saying something about console swapping. By "nuke it" do you mean getting rid of the 30 second cd thing?

    Also, can't we just make Universal Consoles 1 per character and put lockbox consoles in a box? Would that be too complicated to do or is it a possibility?
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    speaking of console powers, i wonder if equipment set powers have a similar cooldown loophole. ive been vaped by someone with proton barrage like once a minute this one time, and i doubt that's its cooldown time
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Personally, I consider console-swapping to be an exploit. I was hoping the 30 second on-swap CD would make it substantially less optimal behavior and might thereby fix it. I will nuke it from orbit as soon as I can - it just means we can't do cool things like make set bonuses that reduce the cooldown of a given console power, etc.

    Just go for it, and add a 3 min swap cooldown to the consoles. :)

    Too many are taking the 30 sec cooldown as a go ahead to swap.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    speaking of console powers, i wonder if equipment set powers have a similar cooldown loophole. ive been vaped by someone with proton barrage like once a minute this one time, and i doubt that's its cooldown time

    Well, Proton lines up with the Alpha quite nicely.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lordcuttersladelordcutterslade Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Personally, I consider console-swapping to be an exploit. I was hoping the 30 second on-swap CD would make it substantially less optimal behavior and might thereby fix it. I will nuke it from orbit as soon as I can - it just means we can't do cool things like make set bonuses that reduce the cooldown of a given console power, etc.


    Good News, at least for space combat.

    The primary purpose of the added 30 second cooldown was because of a Ground PvP issue with players intentionally in combat switching kits/devices via a script in order to reset cooldowns.

    Exactly

    Just gotta find a way so that Kit switching on ground won't return if you "nuke" it.
    [SIGPIC]Everything is awesome![/SIGPIC]
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