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Hirogen Hunter Heavy Escort Vs Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
originalspock
Member Posts: 809 Arc User
Which is better and why? I have been looking through a few documents online including game-opedia that says the Escort is better because of durability and of course bof slotting, does it truly outclass the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship? And how does the Hirogen Escort fair against the new Federation Escort? Thanks.
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I wouldn't say either is better really.
They are very different ships... both pretty tanky... both with good turn numbers.
it is going to depend on the build you are shooting for.
For standard (read non a2b sillyness) on an escort the bug is still king imo. the standard Cmd / Lt Cmd tac is a good setup. It has uni slots however 95% of the time its going to be setup like a standard fleet patrol. (Cmd / Lt Cmd tac / Lt Engi and sci / Ensign Engi) A setup like that with Attack Pattern Doffs is likely the best standard non a2b dmg setup.
The hunter is going to shine more if you like running the a2b style builds. For silly beam scores the nicor is better there. For a2b/a2d hyrbid cannon builds the Hunter shines. (nit pick wise the hunter turns on its back side like the raptor... its smaller so its not as annoying, still it does it)
The new fleet... not sure if I would say better then a bug still. As far as (non silly beam build) cannon escorts go turn / speed / inertia are all still the most important numbers on the ship... and so far the bug wins that over anything else, the risan vette I guess, its lacking in other ways though. The fleet patrol with a a2b setup is sadly most likely the most tanky ship in the game. (which seems wrong doesn't it)
Bottom line.... it really depends how you play. They should all be pretty forgiving ships... They all have there pros and cons. Honestly I am not sure I would say any of the lockbox escorts are bad, or even a ton better then the others.... and they are all good depending on the build your using and your style. (Bug / Hunter / Nicor / Time Destroyer / Elachi) They are all viable escorts.
as great as the patrol refit is, its only got 3 eng consoles and 16 turn rate, it will always be at least 1 tier below the better dogfighters. but its just awesome at everything else. wile its hella tanky, probably the most tanky ship that is used to primarily deal damage, that including cruisers, the all to common lucky BO crit and the bag of tricks vapers have all tend to be more then enough to blow anything away in a second.
Hell, I've had fun dealing with bugs with a combination of yellowstones, EWP and tractor beam mines on a JHEC. The game certainly isn't like 2 years ago, and there are other ways to PvP as a tac than getting into turning battles with other escorts.
Yes you can load silly cruiser skills and fly in a big silly circle.
Not sure why you would want to fly an escort and pilot it like a carrier. Guess it makes it easier to watch tv at the same time.
Yes, because DEM / EWP and tractor beam is best used on cruisers, and unless you have higher than 20 base turn rate you fly in circles...
:rolleyes:
My point was that things like ATB, battlecloaks and a bunch of clickly clicky consoles have changed the meta.
And besides, if you see my original post, it was the hunter I deemed completely obsolete.
and that phrase shows you dont play escorts.
I can out turn bugs with any ship with @16 base turn simply because people don't use reverse to turn.Turn rate after 16 is pointless ...ofcourse its good for posting on the forums about ups and down in game has zero value.
Can't believe this is not the PvE forum :rolleyes:
you do realize that the turn rate in reverse is pointless and you rely on speed more?
yes it is according to this topic. lol
Nothing does a 3 point 180 better then a bug. Saying otherwise is silly.
Could you argue 16 is enough perhaps... because the game has been dumbed down to a point where on target time isn't all that important. Escorts are all about burst these days. IF a2b and or faw are ever corrected then the bug goes back to number 1... as it is its just one of a handful of around = escort.s Saying the bug has been outclassed because you can't put a copy of dem on it or a second copy of a2b isn't really true.
Bug still has the 5th tac console, whiich is now equaled by a couple other escorts. It still has the best turn, and no 95% of the time it won't matter. 5% of the time when you are fighting people that actually know what they are doing in there escorts it will. Bug also has one of the better pure damage escort console layouts... 4 engi and 5 tac is a good mix... no need for a bunch of sci slots on an escort.
It isn't the clear out and out best by a mile anymore no. It is one of 4 or 5 viable escorts now... and depending on the build it is still the best. All cannon or Cannon + a beam... it still is the best option imo. Talking about beam builds or heavy topr/cannon builds then ships like nicor / hunt and the new fed ship are the obviously better options as turn rate isn't as important and they have the boff layouts to make it work.
There is no reason to fly forward much .Staying in reverse you use that defense .
Huh? Pretty much all escorts turn the same ...speed bonus and inertia can be the difference but not turn rate.Hope you dont compare the bug with the defiant lol
I was not talking about ships/builds that people make to run in circles doing no damage.
[Console - Bioneural Infusion Circuits] in the 5th tac slot gives me more overal damage than a fleet tac console.You can mount that console on any ship so that 5th tac slot is like turn rate only good for pointing the differences.
I can faw down pretty much all escorts (note: running is not a counter) with zero skill but lots of spacebar .There are no escorts viable against faw....geko made it so escorts can't be viable.
The fact that the only escorts that sell anymore are a2b / faw friendly says it all. The game is single array online now. (Its moved past cruisers/escorts - ships online... to weapons, as only one is really viable.)
your the only one who outed themselves as being full of it. if you think just using reverse in a 16 turn escort wile dueling is enough vs a bug, with a hyper engine, 4 turn consoles and AtD, you have never dueled a bug. also, unless your in a corvette, he has a higher impulse mod then you as well.
everything that boosts turn, the bug can equip in the maximum possible amount. AtD, and room for 4 turn consoles. most wont even need to go half that far, and still out turn all comers that also run a maxed amount of turn boost like that. to them, all that boost is still multiplied off their inferior base, so for each item and skill, the benefit is significantly less, and the maximum total is not even close to a bugs maximum potential
Anyone who says that the bug ship's turn rate isn't an advantage has never faced one in a dogfight. At 16 base turn with EPtE1, A2D1, APO3 and 125 engine power my FPE-R couldn't beat the JHAS in a turn. But with the extra tanking ability and improved burst damage, I am able to wear them down. Having an always OP subnuc helps too.
With the FPE-R and the Hirogen Hunter, only those Feds who want JHAS pets have a reason to buy one. Otherwise, you're just throwing resources down the drain.
so you are saying that a bug can use turn consoles and other escorts cant? (except defiant ...I count that as shuttle) .If a2d is a point for speed and tanking then how about those escorts with lt cmd engi station?
Also duel means both people fire at eachohter not one fires and the other one keeps running using a2d ,evasive ,epte and all speedy stuffs to speed tank forever.That is not dueling that is BS and reason why 1v1 is not possible in this game.
I dont know what Im full off but you sure need a bug ship to see thats pretty much a overpriced fleet patrol (after the last update Im sure that fleet patrol escort is abit more tanky than the bug)
45 degrees firing arc is to low for people.....spamming beams with no target is called math pvp ...where math decides dps and the winner.Movement ,timming powers are all myths
not knowing how to out turn ships =/= never fought a bug
you can even do that by using apo or evasive or using the z axis to get advantage...
if you want real important stuffs look at speed and inertia ...thats what matters not 4 base points in turn.
i hope your inability to comprehend is just trolling. turn consoles are a multiplier off your bace turn rate, that means the higher base turn, the more benefit you get from them, not that ONLY the bug benefits from them. the only escort with a higher base turn then the bug is the risan corvet, by 1, but even raiders have more hitpints then it does, wile the bug has as many hitpints as a battlecruiser. all these stat advantages make it the best at what it does.
'dueling' constantly happens in game, in 5V5. every time an escort starts attacking another escort, and there's not much in the way of team support, so every pug ever, the bug is going to have the advantage.
you clearly don't know anything about me if you think im some noob, or that i need a bug crutch. i dont think anyone has protested its existence more then i have.
4 base points in turn has a funny way of turning into 20 or more points of final turn. take a look at the movment tab in your status screen some time in system space
ok lets put it this way.
how much turn rate is pointless in your opinion?
which escorts have no epte?
20 turn rate it pointless ....Id rather use a neutronium for more resistence.
hey you are not a noob just because you cant turn a escort or think a fleet patrol is a crutch while you are fawing :rolleyes:
While it may have lost some ground and prestige with Cryptic's ongoing quest to shake the money tree, the Bugship is still a potent, total package.
youve called me troll but havent answered the questions there.
btw calling names = warn here.
i fly a fleet patrol and a bug .Since both are pretty much the same I fly the most expensive one of them .After the fleet patrol update that escort is more tanky than it used to be.Also when Ill get at shipyard Ill take a screenshot with all my ships on my tac toon.I dont get these days to change teh ships often because I dont play only tac .
*facepalm*
i got the bug from the winter event thingy and I got the extra costume for it.That was 150 mills for a costume.Woulnd you use the most expensive thing you have ?Guess in your book expensive = the best.In that case i have a pink pet dog thats 40 mills ec....guess thats the biggest pvp crutch .....
Form what i can tell duelling in 5v5 against bugs, my hunter nearly always outruns and outlasts those. I am nearly always turning faster and even if i'm not the enemy pilot will only get me for a split second into his firing arc, before i'm out of it already. Another advantage i see with the hunter is the ability to use a tractor beam with it and not loose any other essential ability doing so. It's just a lot more versatile then the bug in this respect.
Concerning the new patrol escort, i don't believe it to be worse than a hunter, but this is just personal preference. It seems to turn worse (even though it technically doen't), it lacks the utility of a hunter escort, but it's a lot more tanky in all respects. I'd say the hunter, for me, is more for pug play and the patrol escort is something for a team enviroment, where you can rely on your teammate to disable a foe to take him out.
Sure in a pure 1v1 scenario, the bug will win every time, because it can simply counter spec everything the other escorts have or it clearly outclasses them in terms of base values, so DDIS is definitely right here.
A competent bug pilot is nasty. Very fun to 1v1 against, though, because it makes me think all the more about timing to counter the turn rate.
The most powerful asset on any escort is its ability to keep its guns on its target. A competent bug pilot (using cannons) will do this better than any other, because of the bug's turn rate. I've fought bugs in my andorian ship many times. Concerning forward firepower, I know generally I have the advantage. However, unless I'm able to keep my guns on the bug for longer than a second, it won't seriously harm them. The bug has the ability to turn, sprint behind, and turn again insanely quickly when combined with APA, APO, EPtE, and Aux2Damp (maybe some Deuterium or Evasives, for the lulz). When it gets like that it's pretty darn hard to keep the guns on it. At the same time, it is able to basically fly sideways around your ship at full speed, eating away at your shields and hull. It's actually very fun to watch, if I'm not on the receiving end, haha.
So, I would consider the bug's best asset its speed and turn rate. Those give the bug great defensive and offensive power.