"...the 23% of men playing as female characters": that number sounds low. I take it the article only studied men who were trying to fool others online? I ask because I've known a number of gamers, myself included, who will create a female character, but make no attempt to hide who they are. Sometimes, in the character backstory or description text they'll actually put "Gamer is a guy" or something like that.
Same here. 50% of my characters are female, because I am in no way creating "avatars" of myself, but actual CHARACTERS... fictional individuals. While I attempt no secrecy in my IRL identity, my OCD gets to me whenever anyone refuses to acknowledge female pronouns when they're addressing or talking about my female characters.
At least the article did have one thing unoffensive. "To each his/her own".
I would say most of the characters I create in RPG games in general, not just MMOs (STO being the only MOO for me) are male; female characters might make up about 25% - 33% of those characters.... just to mix things up a little. I currently have male Fed toon and female KDF toon. I will likely end up with a total of 6 semi-active toons in STO. One male and one female per faction (though Romulans are not considered a "true" faction).... 'cuz why not? I don't socialize with anyone in the game. I simply log in, play, log out.
I have been procrastinating creating my 3rd toon. A Romulan. Since I have not even started the Romluan rep system I have not unlocked the free Reman option yet. Since I want my male Romulan to be Reman and I prefer not to pay 500 Zen to unlock the Reman race, the Romulan toon I will be creating soon will be female.
To date, the only games I have preferred playing a female character are Mass Effect 2 and 3. In Mass Effect 1 the voice acting of Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale (Male / Female Cmdr Shepard) both seemed to be on par with each other. However, beginning in Mass Effect 2 I thought Jennifer Hale's voice acting to be superior to Mark Meer. The multiple times I have played ME 2 and ME 3 have mostly been with different variations of my Fem-Shep character.
paying to read some text? get real! and the worst bit, its just an opinion of someone and your paying them money for their bile on a website? that exactly like feeding a troll exactly what it wants.
I didn't pay to read the journal article, and I'm not saying that you should either. I'm trying to give you a reference to the primary source.
The article referenced in the OP is published by Uproxx, which seems to be a media company, but is probably not a serious publication like The New York Times or The Washington Post. The Uproxx article didn't give a source. Even serious news publications often fail to a give source when they could easily provide a link to the academic journal. I am giving you a link to the original journal article. Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall.
My buddy will only play female characters because he is such a manly man he can't stand to look at a guys but all day in game :rolleyes:
lol, meh...me I have always had a hard time playing a different gender because occasionally I get into RP situations and I am horrible at RP'ing a girl. Partly because in TS I sound like a mix between Barry White and a Bullfrog:P
Playing as a female character can give men an advantage, or maybe just even the playing field for some men who arent that good at a game.
Oh, awesome. So if I suck at a game I'll just play a female avatar and the magic of the interwebs will make me a pro.
You know how those female types are. Horrible at video games, so video game companies give female avatars handicaps so they can compete against naturally superior males. It's in the genemanetics.
There are also a lot of players who realize that their characters will be on the screen the entire time they play, and theyd like to choose a form thats more visually appealing to them. To each his or her own.
This is a cop-out that weird people use to make it look 'justifiable' that they play a female avatar, when in fact they're weird.
It turns out, unsurprisingly, that the 23% of men playing as female characters dont know what the hell theyre doing.
That number not only seems more than a little low, that doesn't mean anything about the gender, it just means people are bad at the video games they play. I know plenty of male avatars played by male humans who don't know what the hell they're doing.
I read the STO forums on a regular basis and see people proudly proclaim to every corner of the game that they are ignorant and proud of the fact they do not know anything about the game they play.
Men playing as females display a lot of different behaviors than actual women playing as their own gender, and most of it is in the way they move. For instance, the men tended to have their character move backwards more often and jump more frequently. How frequently do they jump? 116 times as often, on average. Thats a lot of jumping.
I see male avatars jump quite often in numerous games I play. One of my best female friends in STO likes to jump around in circles out of boredom (yes, she really is female). Anecdotal evidence, sure. But what does that mean?
Is it really connected to what gender people play, or maybe people in general like doing these things in video games?
Males also tend to stay further away from their party.
Anecdotal evidence, but I don't. I need to be around my party to buff them and be buffed by them in numerous games I play.
Other differences include picking more attractive avatars, and using lots of smiley emoticons in chat.
This is really vague. What is 'attractive'? How do 'scientists' define attractive?
I have plenty of female friends who use smilies. I think it's more of an internet culture thing than a distinct gender thing.
Well, there are a few things we can learn. Men dont seem to know how women really behave; just how they want women to behave.
Finally, something I agree with. But women have been enigmas for centuries. I've been in several relationships with females and I can tell you right now I don't know any more about their behavior despite 'studying' various specimens for long periods of time.
That's not an internet thing. That's just a fact of life. Women are unknowable creatures. You can be married for 50-60 years and your wife's behaviors will still elude you.
As for, "How they want women to behave."?
That's also not an internet-only thing. Apparently this Blogger has never heard of "Girlfriend-in-Refrigerator" Syndrome that plagues comic books.
Men on average do not know how to write women. In comic books, this "Girlfriend-in-Refrigerator" syndrome has been around even before the internet. Male writers don't know how to write a woman as a normal person, so they kill them, sexually violate them, depower them, torture them, and whatever else because that's all the writers know how to do.
There's even a website regarding the (either knowingly or unknowingly) insensitive nature of female characters in comic books being a victim of "Girlfriend-in-Refrigerator" syndrome.
Has this guy ever read anything by Frank Miller?
I bet if handing sandwiches out to other players was an option, men would be overjoyed.
I'm okay with feeding the hungry. Other than that, that's a pretty sexist remark. I used to be a professional cook in Everquest and gave out food and water to newbies in the game, regardless of their gender. It doesn't mean I want women to walk around barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
Some men seem to believe that women are these fluttering, aloof creatures prancing through life, and thats pretty sexist.
No more sexist than your article, Mr. Blogger. Ever consider that many socially awkward, single male neckbeards with poor hygiene really do not know or care how women behave? Whose exposure to females consists almost entirely of their mothers or women in pornographic movies or over-sexualized actresses in action movies?
Regardless of how sexist it is, do you think they are aware of it? Or do you think they even care?
They don't. I see plenty of people in numerous games, in STO, and in the STO forums who are completely oblivious to the sexist things they say -- and their friends are just as oblivious to it.
And nobody cares.
I'll take it one step further -- game devs can be just as oblivious to females as their players. How many times has STO's animation dept. 'redone from scratch' the various female animations in STO?
I'm not accusing them of misogyny or sexism, mind you. I'm merely pointing out that even STO's artists are not immune to being oblivious regarding 'how' women behave (or walk, or run, or stand in an idle stance).
That's not malice, or even negligence. It's not unusual in numerous media industries, whether it be Hollywood, comic books, video games, or music... for males to simply portray women how they think they should be portrayed, and not how women actually are.
To single out male gamers who play female avatars as something to be shamed is little more than a hit piece by a laughable 'gaming' press.
That could be why 7% of women choose to play as male characters.
One of my female friends makes her underage daughter play as a male character because she's afraid of online predators stalking and harassing her.
Other than that, if 7% of women play a male character, why does it matter? If they aren't used to telling guys to go away and die in a fire on the internet, then they shouldn't be on the internet.
That's not a gender thing. That's an internet thing. I'm male and insult other people regularly to get them to leave me alone in various games I play.
If I was female, I would still be a jerk to people to get them to leave me alone. You don't magically become immune to jerks just because you're male in a game.
Having carefully read the abstract, I am not certain the article portrays the actual paper in an accurate way. Never completely trust a popular-press report of anything published in a scientific journal to give you a completely accurate summery, let alone the gaming "press."
The summery admits that there are no gender identification issues in designing a game avatar for yourself. It's just something people do for aesthetic reasons.
Having carefully read the abstract, I am not certain the article portrays the actual paper in an accurate way. Never completely trust a popular-press report of anything published in a scientific journal to give you a completely accurate summery, let alone the gaming "press.".
I know. That's why I enjoy consuming the entire article and utilizing every portion of its carcass. Gaming "press" is a joke.
I only made 1 female character on STO, and that was my throw away Foundry test character
Instantly after making it i regretted it, I can't stand the Running animation,It just looks wrong somehow.
Also I think i struggle with the immersion factor if I play female characters in an RPG, ( not such a big deal elsewhere, portal , Metroid, etc, not really important when blasting things or solving puzzles)
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When I played WoW, I had a strong tendency toward female toons, because they do take up a lot of real estate on the screen and I found the males far less pleasant to look at during an afternoon's gaming.
In STO and CO, they take up less of the screen, and the run animation for females in CO is really jarringly bad (superheroes do not prance, thank you very much!), so I tend toward male toons, but Admiral Davis and Subcommander t'Kallien are both out there flying through the galaxy off and on, simply for variety.
I'm superficial, it's perfectly normal. I'm weird for totally different reasons.
My buddy will only play female characters because he is such a manly man he can't stand to look at a guys but all day in game :rolleyes:
lol, meh...me I have always had a hard time playing a different gender because occasionally I get into RP situations and I am horrible at RP'ing a girl. Partly because in TS I sound like a mix between Barry White and a Bullfrog:P
Men have various reasons to play as... well whatever they play as. Some play as a non-male because it's no different than playing a non-human to them. Some want to stare at a female TRIBBLE while they play. Some(like me) just want to create various characters that cover the whole available spectrum. And even if there are different percentages of this with females playing male characters, it's probably the same concept there. IMO it's kinda unfair to generalize something like this.
I think the real point of the article was to convey that everyone thinks that women are from Venus and men are from Mars when hardly anyone realizes is that both men and women are from Earth.
I'm okay with feeding the hungry. Other than that, that's a pretty sexist remark. I used to be a professional cook in Everquest and gave out food and water to newbies in the game, regardless of their gender. It doesn't mean I want women to walk around barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
I want to walk around barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen...
Men have various reasons to play as... well whatever they play as. Some play as a non-male because it's no different than playing a non-human to them. Some want to stare at a female TRIBBLE while they play. Some(like me) just want to create various characters that cover the whole available spectrum. And even if there are different percentages of this with females playing male characters, it's probably the same concept there. IMO it's kinda unfair to generalize something like this.
Point conceded. It goes back to my other point of how one defines 'attractive'.
I want to walk around barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen...
Well, that's your choice to do so. I'm just saying just because men might want the ability to have female characters hand out sandwiches doesn't mean it's a symptom of sexism or misogyny.
In my case it was feeding newbies who did not have the money to buy food so their stats and hp would not suffer. It was on a female character that my SO created, but gave me her account once she stopped playing. But even if it was a character I created myself, it has less to do with demeaning females and more with doing good services.
In STO I give out starbase invites for people who want Elite Fleet gear. I don't know what gender these people are or what gender their avatars are. I do it to be nice, not for the potential to get in somebody's pants.
Look at the avatar, how it is dressed and how it is scaled. If it has ginormous TRIBBLE, generally sticking out farther than the arms, its likely a male. If it has a borderline offensive name / title/ etc, likely male. If it is dressed in the skimpiest outfit available, male. Does tons of boob/butt moving emotes? Male. Its not rocket science.
The above isn't foolproof, but it will get you an 85% detection rate or so with minimal false positives.
Look at the avatar, how it is dressed and how it is scaled. If it has ginormous TRIBBLE, generally sticking out farther than the arms, its likely a male. If it has a borderline offensive name / title/ etc, likely male. If it is dressed in the skimpiest outfit available, male. Does tons of boob/butt moving emotes? Male. Its not rocket science.
The above isn't foolproof, but it will get you an 85% detection rate or so with minimal false positives.
*sigh* So many.. facts. Lets add some... "facts" *cough* of my own.
Only insecure people with power fantasys restrict themself to their own gender and bash ppl doing otherwise because they want to see the avatar as themself.
The grown ups are ok with every type of character because that guy/gal is somebody else with a story they like to follow much like watching a movie. They don't see this "person" on screen as themself as much as they would not see themself as Lara Croft when watching a Tomb Raider movie.
Look at the avatar, how it is dressed and how it is scaled. If it has ginormous TRIBBLE, generally sticking out farther than the arms, its likely a male.
The biggest tell is a female character who has a frame like an NFL linebacker with no hips, massive shoulders, and two over-inflated basketballs under their shirt. Usually, they are wearing the Seven of Nine catsuit. I've seen like 20 of these since launch, easily.
Also, you can totally get this kind of attention with a male character. Guys just need to make prettier men.
This is very good and I agree! Granted I like playing playing as my gender. :P I'm not sure how I would accurately role play as a guy if I was to try. I imagine I would come across as a pimp or something LOL
This is very good and I agree! Granted I like playing playing as my gender. :P I'm not sure how I would accurately role play as a guy if I was to try. I imagine I would come across as a pimp or something LOL
Well, given that it's the 25th century, you could just play it the same. I assume there's no Patriarchy anymore, so TRIBBLE gender roles. No reason not to put on your skant uniform and makeup and go crusing for girls in your shuttle.
As a female player, I prefer to play either a male toon, or a female alien enough that I don't think she is going to get hit on. The male toons just come with far fewer strings attached: fewer stupid expectations from other players (either for RP or people getting ideas about who's actually driving), better clothing choices that can actually be taken seriously as military uniforms, no hairstyles or stances geared towards making your avatar look not just ridiculous but in some cases underage in addition to hypersexualized.
The female toons I do have, just as I do with the male ones, I pay a LOT of attention to giving them realistic proportions, uniforms that can be taken seriously as belonging to a military organization, and off-duty outfits that are elegant without baring it all or having a skirt that goes all the way up to her butt. That doesn't mean they don't end up being good looking, or at least well dressed (my Reman female has the movie-canon appearance but I spent a LONG time getting her uniform just so). They are not there to be some guy's eye candy.
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Comments
At least the article did have one thing unoffensive. "To each his/her own".
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I like to use a wide varieties of characters. which inevitably leads to having a mix of male and female chars.
My character Tsin'xing
I have been procrastinating creating my 3rd toon. A Romulan. Since I have not even started the Romluan rep system I have not unlocked the free Reman option yet. Since I want my male Romulan to be Reman and I prefer not to pay 500 Zen to unlock the Reman race, the Romulan toon I will be creating soon will be female.
To date, the only games I have preferred playing a female character are Mass Effect 2 and 3. In Mass Effect 1 the voice acting of Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale (Male / Female Cmdr Shepard) both seemed to be on par with each other. However, beginning in Mass Effect 2 I thought Jennifer Hale's voice acting to be superior to Mark Meer. The multiple times I have played ME 2 and ME 3 have mostly been with different variations of my Fem-Shep character.
I didn't pay to read the journal article, and I'm not saying that you should either. I'm trying to give you a reference to the primary source.
The article referenced in the OP is published by Uproxx, which seems to be a media company, but is probably not a serious publication like The New York Times or The Washington Post. The Uproxx article didn't give a source. Even serious news publications often fail to a give source when they could easily provide a link to the academic journal. I am giving you a link to the original journal article. Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall.
lol, meh...me I have always had a hard time playing a different gender because occasionally I get into RP situations and I am horrible at RP'ing a girl. Partly because in TS I sound like a mix between Barry White and a Bullfrog:P
Oh, awesome. So if I suck at a game I'll just play a female avatar and the magic of the interwebs will make me a pro.
You know how those female types are. Horrible at video games, so video game companies give female avatars handicaps so they can compete against naturally superior males. It's in the genemanetics.
This is a cop-out that weird people use to make it look 'justifiable' that they play a female avatar, when in fact they're weird.
"I'm superficial, it's perfectly normal. Don't hate."
That number not only seems more than a little low, that doesn't mean anything about the gender, it just means people are bad at the video games they play. I know plenty of male avatars played by male humans who don't know what the hell they're doing.
I read the STO forums on a regular basis and see people proudly proclaim to every corner of the game that they are ignorant and proud of the fact they do not know anything about the game they play.
I see male avatars jump quite often in numerous games I play. One of my best female friends in STO likes to jump around in circles out of boredom (yes, she really is female). Anecdotal evidence, sure. But what does that mean?
Is it really connected to what gender people play, or maybe people in general like doing these things in video games?
Anecdotal evidence, but I don't. I need to be around my party to buff them and be buffed by them in numerous games I play.
This is really vague. What is 'attractive'? How do 'scientists' define attractive?
I have plenty of female friends who use smilies. I think it's more of an internet culture thing than a distinct gender thing.
Finally, something I agree with. But women have been enigmas for centuries. I've been in several relationships with females and I can tell you right now I don't know any more about their behavior despite 'studying' various specimens for long periods of time.
That's not an internet thing. That's just a fact of life. Women are unknowable creatures. You can be married for 50-60 years and your wife's behaviors will still elude you.
As for, "How they want women to behave."?
That's also not an internet-only thing. Apparently this Blogger has never heard of "Girlfriend-in-Refrigerator" Syndrome that plagues comic books.
Men on average do not know how to write women. In comic books, this "Girlfriend-in-Refrigerator" syndrome has been around even before the internet. Male writers don't know how to write a woman as a normal person, so they kill them, sexually violate them, depower them, torture them, and whatever else because that's all the writers know how to do.
There's even a website regarding the (either knowingly or unknowingly) insensitive nature of female characters in comic books being a victim of "Girlfriend-in-Refrigerator" syndrome.
Has this guy ever read anything by Frank Miller?
I'm okay with feeding the hungry. Other than that, that's a pretty sexist remark. I used to be a professional cook in Everquest and gave out food and water to newbies in the game, regardless of their gender. It doesn't mean I want women to walk around barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
No more sexist than your article, Mr. Blogger. Ever consider that many socially awkward, single male neckbeards with poor hygiene really do not know or care how women behave? Whose exposure to females consists almost entirely of their mothers or women in pornographic movies or over-sexualized actresses in action movies?
Regardless of how sexist it is, do you think they are aware of it? Or do you think they even care?
They don't. I see plenty of people in numerous games, in STO, and in the STO forums who are completely oblivious to the sexist things they say -- and their friends are just as oblivious to it.
And nobody cares.
I'll take it one step further -- game devs can be just as oblivious to females as their players. How many times has STO's animation dept. 'redone from scratch' the various female animations in STO?
I'm not accusing them of misogyny or sexism, mind you. I'm merely pointing out that even STO's artists are not immune to being oblivious regarding 'how' women behave (or walk, or run, or stand in an idle stance).
That's not malice, or even negligence. It's not unusual in numerous media industries, whether it be Hollywood, comic books, video games, or music... for males to simply portray women how they think they should be portrayed, and not how women actually are.
To single out male gamers who play female avatars as something to be shamed is little more than a hit piece by a laughable 'gaming' press.
One of my female friends makes her underage daughter play as a male character because she's afraid of online predators stalking and harassing her.
Other than that, if 7% of women play a male character, why does it matter? If they aren't used to telling guys to go away and die in a fire on the internet, then they shouldn't be on the internet.
That's not a gender thing. That's an internet thing. I'm male and insult other people regularly to get them to leave me alone in various games I play.
If I was female, I would still be a jerk to people to get them to leave me alone. You don't magically become immune to jerks just because you're male in a game.
Having carefully read the abstract, I am not certain the article portrays the actual paper in an accurate way. Never completely trust a popular-press report of anything published in a scientific journal to give you a completely accurate summery, let alone the gaming "press."
The summery admits that there are no gender identification issues in designing a game avatar for yourself. It's just something people do for aesthetic reasons.
I know. That's why I enjoy consuming the entire article and utilizing every portion of its carcass. Gaming "press" is a joke.
Instantly after making it i regretted it, I can't stand the Running animation,It just looks wrong somehow.
Also I think i struggle with the immersion factor if I play female characters in an RPG, ( not such a big deal elsewhere, portal , Metroid, etc, not really important when blasting things or solving puzzles)
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In STO and CO, they take up less of the screen, and the run animation for females in CO is really jarringly bad (superheroes do not prance, thank you very much!), so I tend toward male toons, but Admiral Davis and Subcommander t'Kallien are both out there flying through the galaxy off and on, simply for variety.
I'm superficial, it's perfectly normal. I'm weird for totally different reasons.
Is that a man butt?... :eek: OMG the horror! lol
Men have various reasons to play as... well whatever they play as. Some play as a non-male because it's no different than playing a non-human to them. Some want to stare at a female TRIBBLE while they play. Some(like me) just want to create various characters that cover the whole available spectrum. And even if there are different percentages of this with females playing male characters, it's probably the same concept there. IMO it's kinda unfair to generalize something like this.
I think the real point of the article was to convey that everyone thinks that women are from Venus and men are from Mars when hardly anyone realizes is that both men and women are from Earth.
I want to walk around barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen...
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Point conceded. It goes back to my other point of how one defines 'attractive'.
Well, that's your choice to do so. I'm just saying just because men might want the ability to have female characters hand out sandwiches doesn't mean it's a symptom of sexism or misogyny.
In my case it was feeding newbies who did not have the money to buy food so their stats and hp would not suffer. It was on a female character that my SO created, but gave me her account once she stopped playing. But even if it was a character I created myself, it has less to do with demeaning females and more with doing good services.
In STO I give out starbase invites for people who want Elite Fleet gear. I don't know what gender these people are or what gender their avatars are. I do it to be nice, not for the potential to get in somebody's pants.
Look at the avatar, how it is dressed and how it is scaled. If it has ginormous TRIBBLE, generally sticking out farther than the arms, its likely a male. If it has a borderline offensive name / title/ etc, likely male. If it is dressed in the skimpiest outfit available, male. Does tons of boob/butt moving emotes? Male. Its not rocket science.
The above isn't foolproof, but it will get you an 85% detection rate or so with minimal false positives.
So lite TRIBBLE basically? :P
Only insecure people with power fantasys restrict themself to their own gender and bash ppl doing otherwise because they want to see the avatar as themself.
The grown ups are ok with every type of character because that guy/gal is somebody else with a story they like to follow much like watching a movie. They don't see this "person" on screen as themself as much as they would not see themself as Lara Croft when watching a Tomb Raider movie.
:P
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The biggest tell is a female character who has a frame like an NFL linebacker with no hips, massive shoulders, and two over-inflated basketballs under their shirt. Usually, they are wearing the Seven of Nine catsuit. I've seen like 20 of these since launch, easily.
Also, you can totally get this kind of attention with a male character. Guys just need to make prettier men.
Well, given that it's the 25th century, you could just play it the same. I assume there's no Patriarchy anymore, so TRIBBLE gender roles. No reason not to put on your skant uniform and makeup and go crusing for girls in your shuttle.
Especially the Cute stance. >:3
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Not really, more like a pre-teen looking at bra ads in the paper or something.
One guy I gamed with put it this way: "I am stuck following this person around for the next few years, so it might as well be fun to look at"
Agreed, death to binary gender restrictions on character stuff. If Saint's Row and Dark Souls can do it, so can STO.
I think I will need to take several shots of very hard liquor to make me forget I read that...
Tell me when you do so I can post it again.
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Thread Redeemed!
The female toons I do have, just as I do with the male ones, I pay a LOT of attention to giving them realistic proportions, uniforms that can be taken seriously as belonging to a military organization, and off-duty outfits that are elegant without baring it all or having a skirt that goes all the way up to her butt. That doesn't mean they don't end up being good looking, or at least well dressed (my Reman female has the movie-canon appearance but I spent a LONG time getting her uniform just so). They are not there to be some guy's eye candy.
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