Overload vs Gravimetric torpedo with Scimitar.

riccardo171

I'll avoid the Romulan Flottila sub forum because I don't want advices from PvE heroes, as I'm looking for PvP-only build.

So, I've been using a Scimitar with x5 DHC, single AtB + AtD, DEM2. Weapon power drain was kinda massive, and hardly even with a spike to get through shields. It let me down after a while, and decided to stick with something different. This is what I came up with

1) http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=scimitarprotonicarsenalnx_0

DOFFs: WCE EPtX cleanse, Matter/Antimatter Scientist AtD variant, three Zemok, Damage Control EPtX variant.

2) http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=scimitarbodem_0

DOFFs: x3 techs, Matter/Antimatter Scientist AtD variant, Marion, Zemok.

I'm currently using the first build; Protonic Arsenal was intriguing with set bonuses, with a nasty torpedo (+10% CrtH with photons... yummy) even if it isn't that much reliable against targets that can raise shields up quickly. They can deliver nice shots (three 10k crits to a single target was moar), but no DEM. Anyway, I felt I was doing way better than before.

Second build has boff layout pretty much identical to my first one; changes only BO2 that previously was APD1. Sweet thing of this variant is the tremendous spike granted in those 8 seconds of glory thanks to Marion (no visible power drain, free to fire a whole volley of cannons and a BO), and DEM2 granting additional shield penetrating damage. Downside is fluctuating auxiliary with risk of seeing it drained completely locking me out of cloak... and after the first strike it's over. CRF is gone unless there's Tactical Initiative on.

Ideas are well accepted

sharxtreme

well you saw what skill setup i use for torp+dhc build without seeing consoles or set.

I will not tell you directly what to do.
Personally, if i would use that antiproton build I would first change that space set to something more suitable.
get rid of valdore console and tachyo and put more interesting things there.

Even 5 spire consoles are overkill there. 4 are more then enough, and 5th could even be a ACC voth rep one or nukara uni one.
To me personally, flying scimi with DBB BO DEM Marion locks you to non-natural attack cycles and you can do that(better if i may add) on faster escorts/warbirds.
I was never big on antiproton, but you have invested so much in that ship setup that it will be very hard for you to get rid some of that.
Starting with way too much front firing energy weapons. namely 8 in your case. do some calculating of how much drain a BO+4DHC+2turrets+kcb will cost you, then see how much DEM/marion CD rotation with single a2B is, and then see that you dont need scimitar for that kind of build. Also point of losing aux is a big one. Elite core will bring you 3.3% and nukara aux offense trait will bring you 4-6.5more when having high aux. so you are losing 10% damage just from that, not counting the drain in-between 2 DEMs.

About doffs. My attacks on tac scimi, if all goes acc to plan are coordinated with kinetic and energy weapons +defense attack APO boost with my 3xzemok.
but i always make tweaks to space set, see what goes better.

I was at very first using all 5 cannons with DEM2, but i had plasma proc as substitute for kinetic damage, i also had bigger drain then expected on non DEM attacks. so i got rid of some turrets and 1 DHC and ltc DEM ENG.
Sounds counter intuitive? maybe, but having less energy weapons frees me to do sudden attack whenever i see an opening, not whenever my skills are out of CD, or to rely on omega proc.

Overload is powerful ability(was way more powerful before nerf) but you don't need a dreadnought to do that. IMO you just limit your potential, and natural flow of attacks that dreadnoughts are capable of.
Also with trying to have hull leech from solanae and shield leech from valdore, you are caping your damage at way lower then you would have without that. - that 10% of having no aux to speak of.

And if i hear " but,but aux batteries" from usual smarta***s then use aux batteries and your build is fine and pretend like i said nothing.

riccardo171

sharxtreme wrote: »

Personally, if i would use that antiproton build I would first change that space set to something more suitable.
get rid of valdore console and tachyo and put more interesting things there.

Space set is Dyson, not Solanae, think you might have misunderstood it. Free RSP is better suited for me than elite shields, the adapt proc won't be really helpful if I stay visible for just 12 seconds.

Even 5 spire consoles are overkill there. 4 are more then enough, and 5th could even be a ACC voth rep one or nukara uni one.
To me personally, flying scimi with DBB BO DEM Marion locks you to non-natural attack cycles and you can do that(better if i may add) on faster escorts/warbirds.
I was never big on antiproton, but you have invested so much in that ship setup that it will be very hard for you to get rid some of that.
Starting with way too much front firing energy weapons. namely 8 in your case. do some calculating of how much drain a BO+4DHC+2turrets+kcb will cost you, then see how much DEM/marion CD rotation with single a2B is, and then see that you dont need scimitar for that kind of build. Also point of losing aux is a big one. Elite core will bring you 3.3% and nukara aux offense trait will bring you 4-6.5more when having high aux. so you are losing 10% damage just from that, not counting the drain in-between 2 DEMs.

I was at very first using all 5 cannons with DEM2, but i had plasma proc as substitute for kinetic damage, i also had bigger drain then expected on non DEM attacks. so i got rid of some turrets and 1 DHC and ltc DEM ENG.
Sounds counter intuitive? maybe, but having less energy weapons frees me to do sudden attack whenever i see an opening, not whenever my skills are out of CD, or to rely on omega proc.

Overload is powerful ability(was way more powerful before nerf) but you don't need a dreadnought to do that. IMO you just limit your potential, and natural flow of attacks that dreadnoughts are capable of.
Also with trying to have hull leech from solanae and shield leech from valdore, you are caping your damage at way lower then you would have without that. - that 10% of having no aux to speak of.

I'll keep Spire consoles, Dyson Auto targeting modules aren't that great and not interested in proton damage.

You got the point I meant with AtB/AtD/DEM2. While they can get through shields better than variant 1), I have to toy around CDs. About weapons firing with torpedo we have 4 DHC, one turret, KCB, 6 in total (aft Experimental Proton won't fire with 180° arc, and torpedo does not drain), still better sustainable than 4 DHC, two turrets, KCB and an eventual BO that would tear down weapon power.

Overload is ticket to get through shield regeneration creep nowadays, and that's the only point of it. I've gone with substituting those double TS with BO (and of course, loading the DBB) but was unplayable, I just... couldn't deal with constant power drain and dropped it.

And if i hear " but,but aux batteries" from usual smarta***s then use aux batteries and your build is fine and pretend like i said nothing.

Using Aux battery and then AtB myself is equal to DOOM. Not really nice to see cloak grey.


I might even switch to another energy type, namely Elachi disruptor, but not anytime soon.

shadowwraith77

I am surprised you aren't using the Omni-directional AP beam array (360).

I would favor this over one of the turrets as far as DPS, and it will allow for side/rear BO's when the DBB is out of firing arc.

riccardo171

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

I am surprised you aren't using the Omni-directional AP beam array (360).

I would favor this over one of the turrets as far as DPS, and it will allow for side/rear BO's when the DBB is out of firing arc.

Omni does not benefit from Cannon special abilities, which leaves turret as better option. It's just... a beam, would still interfere with DBB which is better at Overload.

virusdancer

I don't give build advice (I fly flaky TRIBBLE) - so don't take this as advice in the least - just wondering; but I couldn't help but wonder based on some of what's been said and shown...

TT1, TS2, HY3, APO3
TT1, BO2, CRF2

Switching the 3x Zemoks for 3x er...the EWO Penetration guy.

Switching the AP Turret for the OD AP Beam Turret...for the DOFF'd EWO Penetrating BO.

Switching one of the AP DHCs for the E-Bio Photon.

With Precision (+4% CrtH), Advanced Targeting Systems (+16% CrtD), Omega Kinetic Shearing, and Auxiliary Power Configuration Offense (+6.2% Accuracy and +6.2% Bonus All Damage @125 Aux).

Penetrating BO...HY3 E-Bio...TS2 Grav...CRF2 DHCs...

Something where you'd want to make sure the target already had HE/ST on CD, that there wasn't anybody near to drop them, or you had a Sci to remove them.

You can still stack HY/TS...and the HY E-Bio will move just as fast as the TS Gravs. It's also non-targetable. With the Penetrating BO, neither the E-Bio nor Grav will have to worry about shields reducing the damage that will come from the Shearing...40%. They're also changing Shearing no longer to have a stack limit. So you won't have to worry about one of the lesser Grav SDoTs overwriting the major SDoT from the E-Bio.

Might even get into the area of switching out the 3pc Dyson for the 3pc Counter-Command...picking up that Radiation blast. So you work the QSM for the +100 PartGens before dropping the Rad blast, tossing the R-Tet Cascade, and having the Grav Rift say hello.

And like I said, it's just a wondering thing - it's a whiteboard thing - not a "hey guys, this is what I'm doing - ain't it cool!" sort of thing by any means.

I do stack TS3/HY2...but with the Elachi for the TS3 (it has no +Accuracy, so the 100% to hit of a TS works pretty nifty...though being a Sci, I'm only looking at ~22.4% CrtH to take advantage of the +60% CrtD the Elachi torp has) and a HY2 E-Bio. I swing around to drop out a Hargh and Grav out the rear. I don't run OKS though, because it puts you in combat - meaning my EBC blips. Pesky folks shoot at me when I blip. Can get shredded in those 3s by somebody that notices me...meh, as well as just taking all that random FAW damage from folks that don't even see I'm there.

Well, I'm just rambling now...I tend to do that. Like I said though, by no means in the least was it advice - I don't do that...but I sure love to speculate and wonder about things.

BTW, the downsides of it should be pretty obvious...heh, but there are probably downsides that I'm overlooking as well. The main thing that sticks out is it's pretty damn overly complex and so many things could go wrong.

sharxtreme

riccardo171 wrote: »

Space set is Dyson, not Solanae, think you might have misunderstood it. Free RSP is better suited for me than elite shields, the adapt proc won't be really helpful if I stay visible for just 12 seconds.





I'll keep Spire consoles, Dyson Auto targeting modules aren't that great and not interested in proton damage.

You got the point I meant with AtB/AtD/DEM2. While they can get through shields better than variant 1), I have to toy around CDs. About weapons firing with torpedo we have 4 DHC, one turret, KCB, 6 in total (aft Experimental Proton won't fire with 180° arc, and torpedo does not drain), still better sustainable than 4 DHC, two turrets, KCB and an eventual BO that would tear down weapon power.

Overload is ticket to get through shield regeneration creep nowadays, and that's the only point of it. I've gone with substituting those double TS with BO (and of course, loading the DBB) but was unplayable, I just... couldn't deal with constant power drain and dropped it.


I might even switch to another energy type, namely Elachi disruptor, but not anytime soon.

Yeah, i thought it was the solanae set on first look, my bad.
Second build as bethshepard pointed out in OPvP is his/hers, but s/he sports 2 part borg with dyson shields and Elachi weapons which are IMO waaaaaay better choice then AP, and that kind of BO+DHC build is best done with those weapons.
His ship/setup is great for 1v1, much better then what i use, because i almost never play 1v1 in scimi. just not geared and boff trained for it, and i hate to waste time on building pure 1v1 ship.

Infact, I think that besides maybe full set dyson with solanae/dyson set, nothing can beat fully specced 1v1 lobi set Mobius(not wells) with good pilot. And i'm not talking about stalemate tank vs ... matches.

shadowwraith77

riccardo171 wrote: »

Omni does not benefit from Cannon special abilities, which leaves turret as better option. It's just... a beam, would still interfere with DBB which is better at Overload.

It would only interfere if timed incorrectly, and you have enough cannons that a single turret lost wouldn't kill your cannon special skills.

riccardo171

sharxtreme wrote: »

Yeah, i thought it was the solanae set on first look, my bad.
Second build as bethshepard pointed out in OPvP is his/hers, but s/he sports 2 part borg with dyson shields and Elachi weapons which are IMO waaaaaay better choice then AP, and that kind of BO+DHC build is best done with those weapons.
His ship/setup is great for 1v1, much better then what i use, because i almost never play 1v1 in scimi. just not geared and boff trained for it, and i hate to waste time on building pure 1v1 ship.

Infact, I think that besides maybe full set dyson with solanae/dyson set, nothing can beat fully specced 1v1 lobi set Mobius(not wells) with good pilot. And i'm not talking about stalemate tank vs ... matches.

Or thinking again over doffs. Having two attack pattern doffs can reduce it without the need of a third zemok, adding an APD1 instead of double TS2.

Cycling them I can have an attack pattern going on with a 1 second gap at most. Should see if only Omega is preferable to APD1, kinda useful when cloaking.

sharxtreme

riccardo171 wrote: »

Or thinking again over doffs. Having two attack pattern doffs can reduce it without the need of a third zemok, adding an APD1 instead of double TS2.

Cycling them I can have an attack pattern going on with a 1 second gap at most. Should see if only Omega is preferable to APD1, kinda useful when cloaking.

Delta is good, with 3 Zemoks i use, APO/APD cycle is perfect, but i don't use delta on scimi.
Delta is very, very useful on FBP ships, 1v1 ships, vs clumsy FAWers and in certain situations in dogfighting as an escort vs decloakers(especially vs them), doing one special quick maneuver.

riccardo171

sharxtreme wrote: »

Delta is good, with 3 Zemoks i use, APO/APD cycle is perfect, but i don't use delta on scimi.
Delta is very, very useful on FBP ships, 1v1 ships, vs clumsy FAWers and in certain situations in dogfighting as an escort vs decloakers(especially vs them), doing one special quick maneuver.

Apart FBP and 1v1 you elencated the use of my Scimitar, reading my mind maybe? :P Tried with Beta but the resistance buff/debuff is way more useful for me. Thought about a dispersal pattern with cloaking mines but doesn't make a lot of sense. None honestly.

Did quite a long session with Lag premade tonight, was shocked to see attack patterns lock and loaded so quickly.