Why the huge need to time them based on auxpwr? Simply switch your freaking subsystem power to aux when cloaking.
If it isn't high enough get a doff to help boost auxpwr when cloaked, and make sure your sing power is a 0.
Put points in stealth, and use gear related to stealth bonuses.
You do realize just how much, or rather, how little, stealth stuff actually does for a ship, right? Because putting aside the junk that doesn't even work (like EPTA), you really can't get much extra stealth out of anything.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
You do realize just how much, or rather, how little, stealth stuff actually does for a ship, right? Because putting aside the junk that doesn't even work (like EPTA), you really can't get much extra stealth out of anything.
Thanks for reminding me about that for the other thread!
Roms still need some balancing, but thats not how to do it. Better to nerf singularity jump and also give other factions boffs superior space traits.
Why you hate my Singularity Jump? :P
Quantum Absorption is pretty useless.
Singularity Overcharge...I was actually looking at the Core that gives you +20% CrtD for using this...but it decloaks you...meh.
Warp Shadows are a trip to troll with...but c'mon.
Plasma Shockwave causes an extended blip and...has anybody used this after they've gotten anything else to use?
As for the BOFFs...meh...nerf 'em - they weren't a $ thing like the ships.
Then fly a Boxscort without a cloak. Or build not to run - there are plenty of folks that do not build to run - they run their BCs like they're running a standard Cloak. They get their initial decloak in and then they go at it (cause like you said, basically the Warbirds are Raptors/Battle Cruisers with Battle Cloaks).
A 45s Battle Cloak would kill KDF Raiders. A 0.88 Shield Mod at the Fleet level...is not a boat meant for sticking around in a fight.
Why I lean toward the BOFF/Trait issue as others have said...
Picture a Fleet HoH'SuS with a Rom Tac and 4x Sub/SRO BOFFs. Don't forget to add in the Improved Raider Ambush as well as the Flanking bonus in exchange for giving up the single Sub/SRO BOFF.
Cause it's pretty much the same with all the non-faction ships. Put a Rom toon in with Rom BOFFs/Traits...it's going to be better than without them.
Give KDF Raptors and Battle Cruisers Battle Cloaks to match the Warbirds...won't matter, cause they won't have the Traits.
edit: Rom Cap w/ 5x Sub/SRO is looking at...
CrtH: +11.5%
CrtD: +28.8%
Def: +12.5%
edit2: the above is for the non-faction ships bit.
Give KDF Raptors and Battle Cruisers Battle Cloaks to match the Warbirds...won't matter, cause they won't have the Traits.
edit: Rom Cap w/ 5x Sub/SRO is looking at...
CrtH: +11.5%
CrtD: +28.8%
Def: +12.5%
But nobody sane is using 5 SRO, but 4+infiltrator.
so its' 9.5 crth and 16.1 defense.
even with 5 SRO which is not what entire player base of rom faction can get, difference is minor.
(remember, you only get 2 superior BOFFs while leveling your rom capt)
Of that fed/kdf tactical captain can get 4-6% crth through embassy and same or more defense.
Advantage in max crth is minor. advantage in defense stat is non-existant.
Remans have 1.5 crth less but more defense
And i bet that on tac fed I have more crth then 90% of romulan player base.
Also, not every romulan/reman capt is in hit&run t'varo for whom sing jump is main power. Not even close to 10% i would say.
I use shadows, i use shockwave even more.
But you all forget one thing, that sing jump is way more useful against romulans then for romulans.
You could nerf that jump thing. but in a week after, somebody else would QQ to nerf something else, and more and more.
So, like i said on start of season 7: romulans are fine, they just need to give other species boffs space traits. Secondary deflector for fed ships, and flank for kdf.
And that's it.
I will say one more thing. Whoever has problems to win when fighting romulans is either having pilot and setup problems, or is in versus stronger team and any tac would finish him of, not just romulan.
Nerfing entire faction to cater to below average players is wrong, because it represents challenge, and resolving challenges makes better players which in return makes for better games.
(Also in yesterday's games we did on OPvP, I did not die once from a romulan, as a fed in avenger and as Reman in Mogai. Infact i wasnt even below 90% at any point as a fed with no healing. Meanwhile, teammate in later games Mini as KDF in KDF ship had dual insta vapes, and vape streaks. So nerf mini? nerf KDF? nerf BOPs? barrages? Rams? LOL get serious)
Why I lean toward the BOFF/Trait issue as others have said...
Picture a Fleet HoH'SuS with a Rom Tac and 4x Sub/SRO BOFFs. Don't forget to add in the Improved Raider Ambush as well as the Flanking bonus in exchange for giving up the single Sub/SRO BOFF.
Cause it's pretty much the same with all the non-faction ships. Put a Rom toon in with Rom BOFFs/Traits...it's going to be better than without them.
Give KDF Raptors and Battle Cruisers Battle Cloaks to match the Warbirds...won't matter, cause they won't have the Traits.
edit: Rom Cap w/ 5x Sub/SRO is looking at...
CrtH: +11.5%
CrtD: +28.8%
Def: +12.5%
No sane player will ever use 5 superior operatives, you need a superior reman in the crew for the ambush that lasts 15 seconds that way. Maybe even adding another one, but still counting if you prefer longer cloak recharge over bonus damage.
Cause it's pretty much the same with all the non-faction ships. Put a Rom toon in with Rom BOFFs/Traits...it's going to be better than without them.
Rom JHAS > KDF or Fed JHAS
Rom Hirogen > KDF or Fed Hirogen
Rom Nicor > KDF or Fed Nicor
Rom any non-faction boat without a cloak and chance for ambush > KDF or Fed in the same boat
It's even an old joke that I used to make about the Romulan Temporal Science Vessel.
They're called the R'Mor cause they are more better than the Wells or Koranth. Same ships, but with the Rom BOFFs...R'Mor!!!
Advantage in max crth is minor. advantage in defense stat is non-existant.
Remans have 1.5 crth less but more defense
6% CrtH is more than the Precision trait's +4%. It's more than the +2% from 9 Weapon Specialization which would cost 27000 SP each. It's 3.75x the bonus of an Advanced Tactical Vulnerability Locator console. It's the equivalent of 3x [CrtH] mods on weapons without needing the 3x [CrtH] mods.
And it's not just +6% CrtH on a 2x Tac Boat - it's also +15% CrtD and +1.25% Defense.
Also, not every romulan/reman capt is in hit&run t'varo for whom sing jump is main power. Not even close to 10% i would say.
I use shadows, i use shockwave even more.
Folks hit and run in everything...not just a T'varo. Folks hit and run in Scimitars.
Shadows are a troll ability...though they can help eat up some FAW/CSV/TS/Mine damage - that people still shoot at Shadows is simply epic /facepalm.
I just can't see using the Shockwave for anything.
Singularity Jump...the accuracy debuff, eating targetable projectiles, goofing on pets...meh, it is what it is.
You could nerf that jump thing. but in a week after, somebody else would QQ to nerf something else, and more and more.
Just because there are folks out there that will cry to nerf whatever killed them last, doesn't mean that one shouldn't take a look at whether things are balanced or not...and that very well could mean looking at a long list of things.
So, like i said on start of season 7: romulans are fine, they just need to give other species boffs space traits. Secondary deflector for fed ships, and flank for kdf.
And that's it.
Adding even more power creep in the hope that things balance out in some sort of cold war arms race...doesn't really fix anything. It just breaks things more. Baskin & Robbins, 31 flavors of OP is still 31 flavors of OP rather having something balanced.
Flanking is out for the KDF Raiders. As well as Improved Ambush, which if it stacks with Subterfuge from an Embassy BOFF...not counting the difference in CrtH/CrtD...gives the definite Ambush advantage to KDF Raiders. You'd have the +15%, +10%, +10%, and the...meh.../brainfart - what is it again for Flanking vs Players? +8.7%? So a KDF Improved Flankbush could be looking at +43.7% damage vs. +25% damage...minus the CrtH/CrtD.
The Secondary Deflectors are going to be for all Science Vessels...Fed, KDF, or Rom.
I will say one more thing. Whoever has problems to win when fighting romulans is either having pilot and setup problems, or is in versus stronger team and any tac would finish him of, not just romulan.
That's pretty dismissive of the advantages Romulans have.
Nerfing entire faction to cater to below average players is wrong, because it represents challenge, and resolving challenges makes better players which in return makes for better games.
To an extent - no doubt. But something that is not balanced is something that is not balanced. Clone yourself and fight yourself...where you're a Fed in X ship and your clone is a Rom in X ship. The issue presents itself rather clearly.
(Also in yesterday's games we did on OPvP, I did not die once from a romulan, as a fed in avenger and as Reman in Mogai. Infact i wasnt even below 90% at any point as a fed with no healing. Meanwhile, teammate in later games Mini as KDF in KDF ship had dual insta vapes, and vape streaks. So nerf mini? nerf KDF? nerf BOPs? barrages? Rams? LOL get serious)
Like I said...depending on if Sub stacks with Raider's Improved Ambush...Fleet HoH'SuS could be the strongest vape by the time you work in all the buffs.
And i bet that on tac fed I have more crth then 90% of romulan player base.
it time to cut this guy off of whatever he's on. superiors boffs are only 4 mil these days, they aren't 15 mil plus anymore, and 'unattainable'.
i was running a nice legit vaper the other day, no clicky TRIBBLE just BO and torps, and ran 5 rom boffs cause i wont even be trying to deal damage for longer then 5 seconds. how i was geared i had 30% crit displayed, and i don't even think i had the crit rep trait active. no feds or kdf are anywhere close to 30%
Wanted to come back to this one and some of the points raised...
Folks hit and run in everything...not just a T'varo. Folks hit and run in Scimitars.
Shadows are a troll ability...though they can help eat up some FAW/CSV/TS/Mine damage - that people still shoot at Shadows is simply epic /facepalm.
I just can't see using the Shockwave for anything.
I can. in my vids i killed many with Plasma shockwave, not to mention that i sport a sing core that has 5sec chance for subsys disable with shockwave
I also use shadows to fire cloaked thalaron.
most guys that play hit&run just don't play romulans like romulans, but like a KDF vaper would do, or a defiant runaway would do.
Same tactics that t'varo players use is used for years on defiants and BOPs. impulse burst. jam, epte, whatever.
Also more times then not I will catch the vaper before he kills or he runs away. so I have no problems with any tactics, equipment or weapons they use.
If someone kills me that way, well cudos to him, I won't cry on forums to nerf defiants. KDF, romulans, T'varos or whatever..
Er...what?
You trap and decloak hit&run cloakers with singularity, if timed right long enough to kill them.
Just because there are folks out there that will cry to nerf whatever killed them last, doesn't mean that one shouldn't take a look at whether things are balanced or not...and that very well could mean looking at a long list of things.
Well, you are in a rant thread made by such guy you and me described, that said almost same things in Death thread, then came to briliant idea to nerf battlecloaks to 2mins.
And I AM on something? pls
Adding even more power creep in the hope that things balance out in some sort of cold war arms race...doesn't really fix anything. It just breaks things more. Baskin & Robbins, 31 flavors of OP is still 31 flavors of OP rather having something balanced.
Well, I don't agree that this particular issue we discus is broken at all, and i suggested that they could make other species BOFFs, accesible to all factions to have space traits. and that is certainly coming and not power creep.
Power creep? if anything, romulans are now weaker then when they came out.
Auxiliary defense config, voth defense trait, regen shields trait, undine hull regen trait, many good and viable space sets for tank healers makes all these points about crth completely invalid.
Just because ppl die when I fire in between their predictable defensive cycles makes my romulan no more "OP" then my FED, because i do the same on my fed.
nerf Defense as well? well, fk me. take out defense, crth, crtd bonus, cloak, ambush, singularity jump of romulans like you ppl are suggesting and we will get a faction that is not romulan. what would be point of flying romulan ship then? to watch nice green ship hulls in space?
OR, should we all fly in a fkn 2-3wells,recluse and 2 JHAS teams as afed, rom or kdf whatever?
The Secondary Deflectors are going to be for all Science Vessels...Fed, KDF, or Rom.
Here I don't agree, secondary deflectors should be just for feds.
I know STO strayed from canon while being sort of canon, but since romulans have no real sci ships, and Klingons never had any sci ships in any movie or series, and romulans have said traits, and advantages, kdf also have Cloak and flanking, fed sci ships should have more sci abilities then any other faction.
To an extent - no doubt. But something that is not balanced is something that is not balanced. Clone yourself and fight yourself...where you're a Fed in X ship and your clone is a Rom in X ship. The issue presents itself rather clearly.
no, it doesn't. I could survive 1vs1 with my fed with less effort then with my romulan, and still have ENOUGH killing power, sensors and sci abilities necessary to win.
You ppl sound like you are exploding left right and center from romulans, and cannot kill a single one because they use fkng sing jump. cmon
About balance.
Balance like you ppl are suggesting should not exist in this kind of game.
Some ships are better for some things then others. Making stats equal for everyone, just dumbs down the fun. game, challenge.
Balance should not be done by nerfing base stats across whole spectrum ever.
You get worse and simpler game that way. There is no difference then when flying a fed, romulan or kdf.
(but it explains ppl with Recluses, bugs and temporal ships on all 3 factions)
Balance System some of you ppl obviously have in mind is an Arcade one, present in MP FPSes for example, where it doesn't matter what faction you are in because you can do all the same things.
So that is 1 example of balance. Other, that i prefer, is that your ship, equipment, faction , flying style decision has weight above anything else.
I would make factions even more differentiated, with way more customization through cross-faction equipment, traits and reputations.
I love to face a OP drainer and counter him and destroy him, to pull cloaker out of cloak, to spot defensive weakness in tanks and exploit that weakness, etc.
It represents a challenge for me.
It does not represent an ego meltdown when i try to kill a super duper equiped tank piloted by skilled player and fail.. I congratulate and try again.
Some nerfs i see suggested on forums would dumb down pvp to point of being eng, sci or tac in a lobi ship, because, whatever happens, nobody ever complains about lobi ships and sets that are by your own standards more broken then any other thing, ship or skill in game.
About numbers you presented there. 150% defense along with 150% CRTD is not possible without reputation traits and sets, and being full specced just for that. and they are not faction specific. it is just that romulan faction has a bit more.
Are you talking buffed or unbuffed? with or without rep traits? because i cannot see that such high base numbers both in crth and crtd are possible unless you count in the weapons.
I can get my defense bonus to 150% upwards with APO3, SFM, 3part KHGand fully specced defense.
CRTH on my romulan is max 40% with APA, voth gravimetric rep set, romulan engines, crth trait, borg, ZPM and 5 spire consoles.
but getting defense on 150%, crth on +30% and crtd on 150% all at same time, without counting weapons, and without buffs and for anything else but full aux photon torps build is not possible IMO.
CRTH - 2% skill points
- 3% 2 part gravimetric set
-1.8% - ZPM
-0.98% borg con
-0.76% tachyo
-11% 5 spire con
-5% rep trait
-10% rom boffs max(8% in practice)
-1.5% rom capt
_________________
= 34-36% + APA 5-5.4% with rom engines=absolute max of 41.4%
My fed tac in defiant and MVAE has access to 36% and in 2 tac boff slot ships to 34%.
I could boost defense as well with superior infiltrator embassy sci and eng boffs on my fed as well, while having same access to all (non faction specific)equipment.
So is the point of this thread to remove that 4-6% MAX crth advantage, or to remove both crth, crtd and defense, make battle cloak on 2 minutes, nerf singularity jump, ambush, ambush duration, so to say, to nerf everything, after KDF received flanking bonus and after tanks have been boosted by new ships, new traits and old redone traits?
Does that sound about on point of what's going on in this thread?
I don't think a longer battle cloak cooldown is the right way.
Both balance and gameplay feel are important. A battle cloak that takes forever to recharge just feels dumb.
If I were to go back to the drawing board, I would try to identify special abilities or ship properties a faction would have and balance them against each other.
Something like:
Starfleet generally the fastest ships and the best sensors, and the best recovery ability.
Klingons have the most manoeuvrable ship and cloak.
Romulans have the toughest ships and cloak.
It may also have been a mistake to give cloak the damage bonuses. The benefit of cloaking is that you make a surprise attack when the enemy is not expecting it, and you decide when to strike.
If anything, all cloak should work like battle cloak, except without the damage bonuses (but the ability to cloak at any time), and "battle cloak" with damage bonuses would be a rare thing or a special ability you need to learn (and for which a non-cloaker could learn something like "reflective shield hardening" to counter)
It probably plays into things like that our main resilience power is nowadays practically at 100 % up-time. The only way to catch an enemy in a weak spot is because you get damage buffs and crits.
Imagine you had to decide something like when to keep your shields up and your ship ready for combat (yellow alert) and when not? There would need to be a meaningful trade-off. Say, if you stay at yellow alert too long, your crew gets tired and its quality worsens, if you're off any alert your ship may be faster, have better sensor range, and may be able to conduct mission objectives faster.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
About numbers you presented there. 150% defense along with 150% CRTD is not possible without reputation traits and sets, and being full specced just for that. and they are not faction specific. it is just that romulan faction has a bit more.
Are you talking buffed or unbuffed? with or without rep traits? because i cannot see that such high base numbers both in crth and crtd are possible unless you count in the weapons.
CRTH on my romulan is max 40% with APA, voth gravimetric rep set, romulan engines, crth trait, borg, ZPM and 5 spire consoles.
but getting defense on 150%, crth on +30% and crtd on 150% all at same time, without counting weapons, and without buffs and for anything else but full aux photon torps build is not possible IMO.
CRTH - 2% skill points
- 3% 2 part gravimetric set
-1.8% - ZPM
-0.98% borg con
-0.76% tachyo
-11% 5 spire con
-5% rep trait
-10% rom boffs max(8% in practice)
-1.5% rom capt
_________________
= 34-36% + APA 5-5.4% with rom engines=absolute max of 41.4%
Then it got into the weapons. Neither the Hargh'peng nor Elachi have any additional CrtH boost. For the four Photon torpedoes though, they all have at least...
+3pc Protonic Arsenal: +10.0% = 32.42%
The Enhanced Bio-Molecular has +2.0% to take it to 34.42% from 32.42%.
The Gravimetric has +6.0% to take it to 38.42% from 32.42%.
Then it got into weapons. Neither the Hargh'peng, Gravimetric, nor the Disrupting Photons have any additional CrtD.
The Enhanced Bio-Molecular has +20.0% to take it from 150.4% to 170.4%.
The Elachi has +60.0% to take it from 150.4% to 210.4%.
The base numbers are listed in the Attack section of the Status tab on the ship's paperdoll. The Projectile Weapon Specialization and individual weapon bonuses are calculated manually.
Finally then, there's the Bonus Defense for Willard...
...which will mean different things depending on how you look at it.
Weapon Specialization provides +2% CrtH, so that's 3x what that gives (81000 skill points of CrtH).
Precision gives +4% CrtH, so that's 1.5x what that gives.
Advanced Tactical Vulnerability Locators give 1.6% CrtH, so that's 3.75x what those give.
[CrtH] provides +2% CrtH, so that's like having [CrtH]x3 on everything.
It's even more than your standard 9 Starship Attack Patterns APA3 is going to give...but always on.
So that's going to be a matter of perspective. +6% by comparison doesn't look like much if you just look at the 6% number - but if you look at what it takes to get 6%...with a Tachyo providing +0.76% and needing almost eight of them to get that 6%...well, it's going to be how you look at it.
Meh, course all of this is making me think about which way I'll go with the ATVx consoles later. Have room for three of them - can't decide Exploiter or Locator, though I'm still leaning Exploiter at this point.
Quantum Absorption is pretty useless.
Singularity Overcharge...I was actually looking at the Core that gives you +20% CrtD for using this...but it decloaks you...meh.
Warp Shadows are a trip to troll with...but c'mon.
Plasma Shockwave causes an extended blip and...has anybody used this after they've gotten anything else to use?
As for the BOFFs...meh...nerf 'em - they weren't a $ thing like the ships.
Quantum absorption works pretty good for me, sometimes I get killed through it, but usually it lets you survive long enough to get some nice damage out with GDF.
Sing jump however is used way too much to get away, and is the main thing besides Romulan boffs which makes Roms OP, it gets pretty ridiculous too when there are multiple roms all spamming it. The singularity should disapate faster, or make it have less perception debuff. there needs to be more risk to decloaking, as it is now they can to often do it and get away with impunity far too often. The other sing powers could get slight buffs to help make up for it.
Quantum absorption works pretty good for me, sometimes I get killed through it, but usually it lets you survive long enough to get some nice damage out with GDF.
Sing jump however is used way too much to get away, and is the main thing besides Romulan boffs which makes Roms OP, it gets pretty ridiculous too when there are multiple roms all spamming it. The singularity should disapate faster, or make it have less perception debuff. there needs to be more risk to decloaking, as it is now they can to often do it and get away with impunity far too often. The other sing powers could get slight buffs to help make up for it.
I think that's where a fat chunk of the issue comes into play with Roms/Warbirds and other folks. For years as folks complained about BoP's vaping, one could always point to you could throw a decorative pillow at the BoP to blow it up. If you saw them during that initial decloak, SNB - their alpha gone - they're just a kill for your team.
Warbirds...just aren't that. It's not a single reason. It's the collective, no?
But it's where sharxtreme has a point...how many folks out there are actually playing anywhere near capacity? It's along the lines of what I've said Cryptic's been doing for years in lowering the bar - tossing so much stuff at folks in the hopes that they might just make it. Of course though, other folks are going to go to town with that stuff...
Was out smoking, when the following image came to mind...a conversation between two Guardian Angels.
GA#1: Damn, I'm tired. How was your day?
GA#2: Gave him a paperclip and a gum wrapper...then spent the rest of the day by the pool. How about you?
GA#1: We were at Costco for six hours...and uh...yeah, we're going back again tomorrow.
Comments
You do realize just how much, or rather, how little, stealth stuff actually does for a ship, right? Because putting aside the junk that doesn't even work (like EPTA), you really can't get much extra stealth out of anything.
Thanks for reminding me about that for the other thread!
. . . or any space traits.
Why you hate my Singularity Jump? :P
Quantum Absorption is pretty useless.
Singularity Overcharge...I was actually looking at the Core that gives you +20% CrtD for using this...but it decloaks you...meh.
Warp Shadows are a trip to troll with...but c'mon.
Plasma Shockwave causes an extended blip and...has anybody used this after they've gotten anything else to use?
As for the BOFFs...meh...nerf 'em - they weren't a $ thing like the ships.
You totally missed my point even though it was clearly spelled out.
One player going off of Battle Cloak will not fix the issue here as you well know it, but you just had to throw your 2 cents worth of nothing anyways.
As for the BoP goes, it was meant without saying that the BoP has always needed a buff to keep it in battle.
But my issue was not with the BoP, but you just couldnt resist on opening that can of worms could you.
45 sec Battle Cloak please.
Agreed 2 min cloak cooldown is OVER KILL.
But just by looking at the stats of all the Warbirds, they are perfectly capable of surviving a 45 sec cloak cooldown.
Picture a Fleet HoH'SuS with a Rom Tac and 4x Sub/SRO BOFFs. Don't forget to add in the Improved Raider Ambush as well as the Flanking bonus in exchange for giving up the single Sub/SRO BOFF.
Cause it's pretty much the same with all the non-faction ships. Put a Rom toon in with Rom BOFFs/Traits...it's going to be better than without them.
Give KDF Raptors and Battle Cruisers Battle Cloaks to match the Warbirds...won't matter, cause they won't have the Traits.
edit: Rom Cap w/ 5x Sub/SRO is looking at...
CrtH: +11.5%
CrtD: +28.8%
Def: +12.5%
edit2: the above is for the non-faction ships bit.
But nobody sane is using 5 SRO, but 4+infiltrator.
so its' 9.5 crth and 16.1 defense.
even with 5 SRO which is not what entire player base of rom faction can get, difference is minor.
(remember, you only get 2 superior BOFFs while leveling your rom capt)
Of that fed/kdf tactical captain can get 4-6% crth through embassy and same or more defense.
Advantage in max crth is minor. advantage in defense stat is non-existant.
Remans have 1.5 crth less but more defense
And i bet that on tac fed I have more crth then 90% of romulan player base.
Also, not every romulan/reman capt is in hit&run t'varo for whom sing jump is main power. Not even close to 10% i would say.
I use shadows, i use shockwave even more.
But you all forget one thing, that sing jump is way more useful against romulans then for romulans.
You could nerf that jump thing. but in a week after, somebody else would QQ to nerf something else, and more and more.
So, like i said on start of season 7: romulans are fine, they just need to give other species boffs space traits. Secondary deflector for fed ships, and flank for kdf.
And that's it.
I will say one more thing. Whoever has problems to win when fighting romulans is either having pilot and setup problems, or is in versus stronger team and any tac would finish him of, not just romulan.
Nerfing entire faction to cater to below average players is wrong, because it represents challenge, and resolving challenges makes better players which in return makes for better games.
(Also in yesterday's games we did on OPvP, I did not die once from a romulan, as a fed in avenger and as Reman in Mogai. Infact i wasnt even below 90% at any point as a fed with no healing. Meanwhile, teammate in later games Mini as KDF in KDF ship had dual insta vapes, and vape streaks. So nerf mini? nerf KDF? nerf BOPs? barrages? Rams? LOL get serious)
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
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We are Travelers
No sane player will ever use 5 superior operatives, you need a superior reman in the crew for the ambush that lasts 15 seconds that way. Maybe even adding another one, but still counting if you prefer longer cloak recharge over bonus damage.
I went back and edited the post, because it wasn't clear why I listed what I did there...but it was in regard to this aspect:
Rom JHAS > KDF or Fed JHAS
Rom Hirogen > KDF or Fed Hirogen
Rom Nicor > KDF or Fed Nicor
Rom any non-faction boat without a cloak and chance for ambush > KDF or Fed in the same boat
It's even an old joke that I used to make about the Romulan Temporal Science Vessel.
They're called the R'Mor cause they are more better than the Wells or Koranth. Same ships, but with the Rom BOFFs...R'Mor!!!
Advantage (&disadvantage) of Rom BOFFs vs. Emb BOFFs.
1x Tac Boat, it's +8% CrtH, +20% CrtD, -2.5% Defense
2x Tac Boat, it's +6% CrtH, +15% CrtD, +1.25% Defense
3x Tac boat, it's +4% CrtH, +10% CrtD, +5% Defense
That's not including any benefits from a Rom/Rem captain.
We just had an XP event - where it was easy peasy to farm Sub/SROs out the wahzoo.
They can grab 4-6% CrtH, but they lose out on 1.25-5% Defense by doing so - and - they'll still be down 4-6% CrtH.
6% CrtH is more than the Precision trait's +4%. It's more than the +2% from 9 Weapon Specialization which would cost 27000 SP each. It's 3.75x the bonus of an Advanced Tactical Vulnerability Locator console. It's the equivalent of 3x [CrtH] mods on weapons without needing the 3x [CrtH] mods.
And it's not just +6% CrtH on a 2x Tac Boat - it's also +15% CrtD and +1.25% Defense.
Just the Rom Tacs? Cause obviously you'll have more CrtH than the Rom Eng and Rom Sci.
Folks hit and run in everything...not just a T'varo. Folks hit and run in Scimitars.
Shadows are a troll ability...though they can help eat up some FAW/CSV/TS/Mine damage - that people still shoot at Shadows is simply epic /facepalm.
I just can't see using the Shockwave for anything.
Singularity Jump...the accuracy debuff, eating targetable projectiles, goofing on pets...meh, it is what it is.
Er...what?
Just because there are folks out there that will cry to nerf whatever killed them last, doesn't mean that one shouldn't take a look at whether things are balanced or not...and that very well could mean looking at a long list of things.
Adding even more power creep in the hope that things balance out in some sort of cold war arms race...doesn't really fix anything. It just breaks things more. Baskin & Robbins, 31 flavors of OP is still 31 flavors of OP rather having something balanced.
Flanking is out for the KDF Raiders. As well as Improved Ambush, which if it stacks with Subterfuge from an Embassy BOFF...not counting the difference in CrtH/CrtD...gives the definite Ambush advantage to KDF Raiders. You'd have the +15%, +10%, +10%, and the...meh.../brainfart - what is it again for Flanking vs Players? +8.7%? So a KDF Improved Flankbush could be looking at +43.7% damage vs. +25% damage...minus the CrtH/CrtD.
The Secondary Deflectors are going to be for all Science Vessels...Fed, KDF, or Rom.
That's pretty dismissive of the advantages Romulans have.
To an extent - no doubt. But something that is not balanced is something that is not balanced. Clone yourself and fight yourself...where you're a Fed in X ship and your clone is a Rom in X ship. The issue presents itself rather clearly.
Like I said...depending on if Sub stacks with Raider's Improved Ambush...Fleet HoH'SuS could be the strongest vape by the time you work in all the buffs.
it time to cut this guy off of whatever he's on. superiors boffs are only 4 mil these days, they aren't 15 mil plus anymore, and 'unattainable'.
i was running a nice legit vaper the other day, no clicky TRIBBLE just BO and torps, and ran 5 rom boffs cause i wont even be trying to deal damage for longer then 5 seconds. how i was geared i had 30% crit displayed, and i don't even think i had the crit rep trait active. no feds or kdf are anywhere close to 30%
Base Numbers
Bonus Defense: +140.0%
Bonus Accuracy: +31.2%
Crit Chance: 20.4%
Crit Severity: 125.4%
w/Projectile Weapon Specialization
Crit Chance: 22.4%
Crit Severity: 150.4%
Individual Weapons
Disrupting Photon Torpedo Mk XI
Acc: 51.2%
CrtH: 32.4%
CrtD: 150.4%
Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo Mk XII
Acc: 41.2%
CrtH: 34.4%
CrtD: 170.4%
Elachi Subspace Torpedo
Acc: 31.2%
CrtH: 22.4%
CrtD: 210.4%
Hargh'peng Torpedo Mk XI
Acc: 31.2%
CrtH: 22.4%
CrtD: 150.4%
Gravimetric Photon Torpedo Mk XII
Acc: 31.2%
CrtH: 38.4%
CrtD: 150.4%
I also use shadows to fire cloaked thalaron.
most guys that play hit&run just don't play romulans like romulans, but like a KDF vaper would do, or a defiant runaway would do.
Same tactics that t'varo players use is used for years on defiants and BOPs. impulse burst. jam, epte, whatever.
Also more times then not I will catch the vaper before he kills or he runs away. so I have no problems with any tactics, equipment or weapons they use.
If someone kills me that way, well cudos to him, I won't cry on forums to nerf defiants. KDF, romulans, T'varos or whatever..
You trap and decloak hit&run cloakers with singularity, if timed right long enough to kill them.
Well, you are in a rant thread made by such guy you and me described, that said almost same things in Death thread, then came to briliant idea to nerf battlecloaks to 2mins.
And I AM on something? pls
Well, I don't agree that this particular issue we discus is broken at all, and i suggested that they could make other species BOFFs, accesible to all factions to have space traits. and that is certainly coming and not power creep.
Power creep? if anything, romulans are now weaker then when they came out.
Auxiliary defense config, voth defense trait, regen shields trait, undine hull regen trait, many good and viable space sets for tank healers makes all these points about crth completely invalid.
Just because ppl die when I fire in between their predictable defensive cycles makes my romulan no more "OP" then my FED, because i do the same on my fed.
nerf Defense as well? well, fk me. take out defense, crth, crtd bonus, cloak, ambush, singularity jump of romulans like you ppl are suggesting and we will get a faction that is not romulan. what would be point of flying romulan ship then? to watch nice green ship hulls in space?
OR, should we all fly in a fkn 2-3wells,recluse and 2 JHAS teams as afed, rom or kdf whatever?
Here I don't agree, secondary deflectors should be just for feds.
I know STO strayed from canon while being sort of canon, but since romulans have no real sci ships, and Klingons never had any sci ships in any movie or series, and romulans have said traits, and advantages, kdf also have Cloak and flanking, fed sci ships should have more sci abilities then any other faction.
no, it doesn't. I could survive 1vs1 with my fed with less effort then with my romulan, and still have ENOUGH killing power, sensors and sci abilities necessary to win.
You ppl sound like you are exploding left right and center from romulans, and cannot kill a single one because they use fkng sing jump. cmon
About balance.
Balance like you ppl are suggesting should not exist in this kind of game.
Some ships are better for some things then others. Making stats equal for everyone, just dumbs down the fun. game, challenge.
Balance should not be done by nerfing base stats across whole spectrum ever.
You get worse and simpler game that way. There is no difference then when flying a fed, romulan or kdf.
(but it explains ppl with Recluses, bugs and temporal ships on all 3 factions)
Balance System some of you ppl obviously have in mind is an Arcade one, present in MP FPSes for example, where it doesn't matter what faction you are in because you can do all the same things.
So that is 1 example of balance. Other, that i prefer, is that your ship, equipment, faction , flying style decision has weight above anything else.
I would make factions even more differentiated, with way more customization through cross-faction equipment, traits and reputations.
I love to face a OP drainer and counter him and destroy him, to pull cloaker out of cloak, to spot defensive weakness in tanks and exploit that weakness, etc.
It represents a challenge for me.
It does not represent an ego meltdown when i try to kill a super duper equiped tank piloted by skilled player and fail.. I congratulate and try again.
Some nerfs i see suggested on forums would dumb down pvp to point of being eng, sci or tac in a lobi ship, because, whatever happens, nobody ever complains about lobi ships and sets that are by your own standards more broken then any other thing, ship or skill in game.
About numbers you presented there. 150% defense along with 150% CRTD is not possible without reputation traits and sets, and being full specced just for that. and they are not faction specific. it is just that romulan faction has a bit more.
Are you talking buffed or unbuffed? with or without rep traits? because i cannot see that such high base numbers both in crth and crtd are possible unless you count in the weapons.
I can get my defense bonus to 150% upwards with APO3, SFM, 3part KHGand fully specced defense.
CRTH on my romulan is max 40% with APA, voth gravimetric rep set, romulan engines, crth trait, borg, ZPM and 5 spire consoles.
but getting defense on 150%, crth on +30% and crtd on 150% all at same time, without counting weapons, and without buffs and for anything else but full aux photon torps build is not possible IMO.
CRTH - 2% skill points
- 3% 2 part gravimetric set
-1.8% - ZPM
-0.98% borg con
-0.76% tachyo
-11% 5 spire con
-5% rep trait
-10% rom boffs max(8% in practice)
-1.5% rom capt
_________________
= 34-36% + APA 5-5.4% with rom engines=absolute max of 41.4%
My fed tac in defiant and MVAE has access to 36% and in 2 tac boff slot ships to 34%.
I could boost defense as well with superior infiltrator embassy sci and eng boffs on my fed as well, while having same access to all (non faction specific)equipment.
So is the point of this thread to remove that 4-6% MAX crth advantage, or to remove both crth, crtd and defense, make battle cloak on 2 minutes, nerf singularity jump, ambush, ambush duration, so to say, to nerf everything, after KDF received flanking bonus and after tanks have been boosted by new ships, new traits and old redone traits?
Does that sound about on point of what's going on in this thread?
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
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We are Travelers
Both balance and gameplay feel are important. A battle cloak that takes forever to recharge just feels dumb.
If I were to go back to the drawing board, I would try to identify special abilities or ship properties a faction would have and balance them against each other.
Something like:
Starfleet generally the fastest ships and the best sensors, and the best recovery ability.
Klingons have the most manoeuvrable ship and cloak.
Romulans have the toughest ships and cloak.
It may also have been a mistake to give cloak the damage bonuses. The benefit of cloaking is that you make a surprise attack when the enemy is not expecting it, and you decide when to strike.
If anything, all cloak should work like battle cloak, except without the damage bonuses (but the ability to cloak at any time), and "battle cloak" with damage bonuses would be a rare thing or a special ability you need to learn (and for which a non-cloaker could learn something like "reflective shield hardening" to counter)
It probably plays into things like that our main resilience power is nowadays practically at 100 % up-time. The only way to catch an enemy in a weak spot is because you get damage buffs and crits.
Imagine you had to decide something like when to keep your shields up and your ship ready for combat (yellow alert) and when not? There would need to be a meaningful trade-off. Say, if you stay at yellow alert too long, your crew gets tired and its quality worsens, if you're off any alert your ship may be faster, have better sensor range, and may be able to conduct mission objectives faster.
I'll break down the numbers in a bit...
I'll break down the numbers in a bit...
The numbers were without any active buffs...
I'll break down the numbers in a bit...
Okay then, for the CrtH on Willard...
Base: 2.5%
+Precision: +4.0% = 6.5%
+5x SRO: +10.0% = 16.5%
+2pc Protonic Arsenal: +3.0% = 19.5%
+Assimilated Module: +0.92% = 20.42%
That's his base 20.4%. Since he only uses Projectiles...
+9 Projectile Weapon Specialization: +2.0% = 22.42%
Then it got into the weapons. Neither the Hargh'peng nor Elachi have any additional CrtH boost. For the four Photon torpedoes though, they all have at least...
+3pc Protonic Arsenal: +10.0% = 32.42%
The Enhanced Bio-Molecular has +2.0% to take it to 34.42% from 32.42%.
The Gravimetric has +6.0% to take it to 38.42% from 32.42%.
And then, for the CrtD on Willard...
Base: 50.0%
+Advanced Targeting Systems: +16.0% = 66.0%
+5x SRO: +25.0% = 91.0%
+3pc Protonic Arsenal: +10.0% = 101.0%
+Assimilated Module: +9.2% = 110.2%
+Bioneural Infusion Circuits: +15.2% = 125.4%
That's his base 125.4%. Since he only uses Projectiles...
+9 Projectile Weapon Specialization: +25.0% = 150.4%
Then it got into weapons. Neither the Hargh'peng, Gravimetric, nor the Disrupting Photons have any additional CrtD.
The Enhanced Bio-Molecular has +20.0% to take it from 150.4% to 170.4%.
The Elachi has +60.0% to take it from 150.4% to 210.4%.
The base numbers are listed in the Attack section of the Status tab on the ship's paperdoll. The Projectile Weapon Specialization and individual weapon bonuses are calculated manually.
Finally then, there's the Bonus Defense for Willard...
Base: 0%
24+ Impulse: +45.0% = 45.0%
+Elusive: +10.0% = 55.0%
+9 Starship Maneuvers: +15.0% = 70.0%
+Aegis Engines: +5.0% = 75.0%
+Infiltrator: +2.5% = 77.5%
+5x Sub: +12.5% = 90.0%
+Cloak: +50.0% = 140.0%
From the CrtH, CrtD, and Bonus Defense - the amount coming from being a Reman with 5x Sub/SROs is...
CrtH: +10.0%
CrtD: +25.0%
Def: +15.0%
...with the rest being gear, skills, and traits.
A non-Romulan/Reman with 2x SRO and 3x SSub with the same gear, skills, and traits (impossible because they couldn't fly the T'varo) would have...
CrtH: +4.0% (-6.0%)
CrtD: +10% (-15.0%)
Def: +11.25% (-3.75%)
...which will mean different things depending on how you look at it.
Weapon Specialization provides +2% CrtH, so that's 3x what that gives (81000 skill points of CrtH).
Precision gives +4% CrtH, so that's 1.5x what that gives.
Advanced Tactical Vulnerability Locators give 1.6% CrtH, so that's 3.75x what those give.
[CrtH] provides +2% CrtH, so that's like having [CrtH]x3 on everything.
It's even more than your standard 9 Starship Attack Patterns APA3 is going to give...but always on.
So that's going to be a matter of perspective. +6% by comparison doesn't look like much if you just look at the 6% number - but if you look at what it takes to get 6%...with a Tachyo providing +0.76% and needing almost eight of them to get that 6%...well, it's going to be how you look at it.
Meh, course all of this is making me think about which way I'll go with the ATVx consoles later. Have room for three of them - can't decide Exploiter or Locator, though I'm still leaning Exploiter at this point.
Quantum absorption works pretty good for me, sometimes I get killed through it, but usually it lets you survive long enough to get some nice damage out with GDF.
Sing jump however is used way too much to get away, and is the main thing besides Romulan boffs which makes Roms OP, it gets pretty ridiculous too when there are multiple roms all spamming it. The singularity should disapate faster, or make it have less perception debuff. there needs to be more risk to decloaking, as it is now they can to often do it and get away with impunity far too often. The other sing powers could get slight buffs to help make up for it.
I think that's where a fat chunk of the issue comes into play with Roms/Warbirds and other folks. For years as folks complained about BoP's vaping, one could always point to you could throw a decorative pillow at the BoP to blow it up. If you saw them during that initial decloak, SNB - their alpha gone - they're just a kill for your team.
Warbirds...just aren't that. It's not a single reason. It's the collective, no?
But it's where sharxtreme has a point...how many folks out there are actually playing anywhere near capacity? It's along the lines of what I've said Cryptic's been doing for years in lowering the bar - tossing so much stuff at folks in the hopes that they might just make it. Of course though, other folks are going to go to town with that stuff...
Was out smoking, when the following image came to mind...a conversation between two Guardian Angels.
GA#1: Damn, I'm tired. How was your day?
GA#2: Gave him a paperclip and a gum wrapper...then spent the rest of the day by the pool. How about you?
GA#1: We were at Costco for six hours...and uh...yeah, we're going back again tomorrow.
TDF needs it's cooldown nerfed to down 15 seconds. If feds can use it more often, they'll use it poorly more often.