Kar'fi DHC build (turn rate question)

jestersage

The Kar'fi's high turn rate always make me feel it have good potential as a DHC 2-hangar carrier, and with the release of counter-command turn rate booster, I can mount essentially 3 RCS.

This is what I am using so far:
Engineering console:
--Dyson Rep Defense Console with +turn, purple
--RCS console, blue, XI

Science: Counter Command turn rate console

Engine: Borg engine

Currently, with engine running at power of 20, I get a turn rate of 20 degrees. Have not tried it out due to the lags in server, but theoratically, is 20 degrees turn good?

warmaker001b

20 degrees is fine. Base turn rate for most Escorts is 15 before other things factor in. But the real question is if 20 is good for your style of play. Some may be fine with it, some may not.

If you are going for RCS consoles in the few ENG Console slots the Kar'Fi has, I hope you have resists via the Dil Mine. Either the Dil Mine RCS Accelerator +AllRes or Neutroinum +Turn. You'll need some degree of resists to help save the Kar'Fi's thin hull, provided you have the resources.

tom61sto

I didn't like the Kar'fi for anything faster than a Borg STF without at least an RCS MK XI blue, Neutronium [+turn] and a Tachokinetic converter (about the same turnrate as the new Undine Rep console) even with the fast turning KHG engines for a DHC build.

With the recent changes to the Team abilities no longer cross sharing cooldowns, I've actually moved to an Aux2Damps build. Eng team one Doffed down to global and then Auxiliary to Dampeners DOffed to last longer and give +energy resist on top of the +kinetic resit it has normally. It can move around quite nicely anytime the Aux2Damps is active, though I am running Fleet RCS [+ResAll] Neutronium [+turn] and the new Undine console for those times it's down. Sci Team pair being used for shield heals instead of EPtS that used to be required.

reginamala78

Thing is with the newer stuff, the enemies are a lot more mobile. Voth have their sorta-RSP-FPB thing where you gotta either wait it out or get them to pop it then flank them. Undine use lots of evasives, their version of Subspace Jump, and just generally popping in from all directions. The recent Mirror Invasion was a lot of ships coming in from a lot of directions and needing to really stay mobile to not get swarmed. Plus more and more enemies are carrying various CC abilities, which makes it hard stay on target when you have a small firing arc. And this trend will probably continue into the future, given what otherwise happens when players get the chance to focus-fire on something.

Yeah you CAN make your Kar'fi turn by using all the console slots, but its kind of a round-hole-square-peg-big-hammer solution. I mean if you have the piloting skillz to make it work then by all means rock it. Personally though, I figure between the way the new content is steadily speeding up and turning just isn't the Kar'fi's natural strength, DHCs just isn't worth the effort.

jestersage

reginamala78 wrote: »

Thing is with the newer stuff, the enemies are a lot more mobile. Voth have their sorta-RSP-FPB thing where you gotta either wait it out or get them to pop it then flank them. Undine use lots of evasives, their version of Subspace Jump, and just generally popping in from all directions. The recent Mirror Invasion was a lot of ships coming in from a lot of directions and needing to really stay mobile to not get swarmed. Plus more and more enemies are carrying various CC abilities, which makes it hard stay on target when you have a small firing arc. And this trend will probably continue into the future, given what otherwise happens when players get the chance to focus-fire on something.

Yeah you CAN make your Kar'fi turn by using all the console slots, but its kind of a round-hole-square-peg-big-hammer solution. I mean if you have the piloting skillz to make it work then by all means rock it. Personally though, I figure between the way the new content is steadily speeding up and turning just isn't the Kar'fi's natural strength, DHCs just isn't worth the effort.

Wouldn't that also apply to Vestas and Fed escorts? I know Vesta turn rate is actually quite low at 12.

EDIT: Okay, DHC is too slow, so I am trying with DBB. When is DBB better than boardside, especially if I insist on having one of them being torpedo?

ryakidrys

Before the uninde rep, the Mogh/ Avenger is the slowest thing I ran where DHCs are somewhat acceptable to beam arrays in performance under the right circumstances, though I consistently acheived much higher DPS using beam arrays (21k) than DHCs (12k) on the Mogh in PvE content like Infected STF. The same can be said, with different DPS but better results with beam arrays, for the Tac Bortas (turn rate of 5), the Negh 'Var (9), the Tor Khat (10) and the fleet Kamarag (10).

When I refer to DPS, I am referencing the value provided using parsers like ACT or Combat Log Reader where the total damage dealt, beginning at the first engagement of an enemy through to the destruction of the last enemy in the mission/ STF, is divided by the total time taken from the same duration of beginning with the engagement of the first enemy through the destruction of the final enemy.

Beam boat builds at the Kar'Fi's turn rate should still be the better performing option in PvE, but a DBB/ Turret setup could be a useful in-between build where the arc of the DBB's helps to mitigate slow turn rate if you do not prefer the broadsiding style of play you normally use with beam array builds. It does not mean that you couldn't make DHC's work well, I am just pointing out that it's below what I experienced as the previous thresh hold where turn rate was too low for DHC's to be effective. Since the Karfi has so little engineering BOFF skills to draw from to affect turn rate, the new undine stuff may have you rob yourself of needed BOFF skills to get that turn rate you would like.