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Forums > Home› Feedback› Klingon Discussion

No Flank Bonus For Raider Pets?

solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
edited May 2014 in Klingon Discussion
Was playing around with my Mirror Vo'Quv which has purple BoPs and noticed that I wasnt seeing any kind of flanking bonus from them. They might be pets, but they are also raiders. Shouldn't they get the flanking bonus too? Or do they and I just havent noticed?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by solidshatner on

Comments

  • nccmarknccmark Member Posts: 1,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The bonus was never intended for pets or NPCs. Playable ships only.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Would be nice if the pet raiders got flanking as well.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    First they would have to get AI for flanking
    [img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x57/UrsusMorologus/MechWarrior Online/Catapult_K2 sig.jpg[/img]
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    nccmark wrote: »
    The bonus was never intended for pets or NPCs. Playable ships only.

    Ok, but they are still raiders that have AI that occasionally attack from behind. It doesnt make sense to me that they wouldnt have the flank bonus as well. A raider is a raider - and if Im not mistaken - they get a bonus for coming out of cloak like a playable ship - so why not?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    They are actually classified as frigates NPC wise.
    NPC and Player classification don't go hand in hand.
    For instance player Bortasqu's are classed as battlecruisers, whereas the NPC's are classed as Dreadnoughts.
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Honestly, and I'm sorry - but that just sounds like semantics to me. All Birds Of Prey that are (granted) playable, get the flanking bonus. Is this not a good idea/suggestion worthy of a look-see? Its not like those pets really fly with any degree of 'smarts' anyway, so its not like they would end up OP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ofcourse not. The player raider class was in serious trouble from power creep, that's why these long awaited enhancements happened. The carrier pets on the other hand are fine.
    Honestly, I never even thought of the possibilty of giving flanking to the BoP pets, never even crossed my mind.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Ofcourse not. The player raider class was in serious trouble from power creep, that's why these long awaited enhancements happened. The carrier pets on the other hand are fine.
    Honestly, I never even thought of the possibilty of giving flanking to the BoP pets, never even crossed my mind.

    Ok. Really not hearing the 'why' on all of the negativity towards this idea.

    And shpoks - come on, of COURSE it never occured to you - based on many of the other posts Ive read from you - you're not really a carrier user for the most part.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh, and before I forget - Carrier Pets are FAAAAAAAAAAR from fine. Especially in the AI dept.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    solidshatner wrote: »
    Ok. Really not hearing the 'why' on all of the negativity towards this idea.

    And shpoks - come on, of COURSE it never occured to you - based on many of the other posts Ive read from you - you're not really a carrier user for the most part.

    True that, I don't use the carriers much, but that has nothing to do with this occuring to me or not. I just don't observe the playable ships as the same as carrier pets, so when Cryptic mentioned buffing the raiders I never considered that could refer to the carrier pets as well. And let's be honest, noone ever said "my BoP carrier pets suck" on the forum.

    As for the negativity - I'm not sure there's much real negativity in the responses. At least I don't believe there was any in mine. The thing is, you're probably one of few people that thought about this while most of us didn't think about it, so people's responses are in line with the fact that most of them never considered the flanking to be implemented on the BoP pets.

    Should they get this or not - that's a whole other discussion. On one hand, the BoP pets have the ability to cloak like the player ship, on the other if they give them flanking it would arguably not be long before people start asking for the carrier pets to completely mimic the player ship.
    solidshatner wrote: »
    Oh, and before I forget - Carrier Pets are FAAAAAAAAAAR from fine. Especially in the AI dept.

    I meant the BoP pets are fine as far as carrier pets go. The AI being TRIBBLE is a known fact. :P
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    True that, I don't use the carriers much, but that has nothing to do with this occuring to me or not. I just don't observe the playable ships as the same as carrier pets, so when Cryptic mentioned buffing the raiders I never considered that could refer to the carrier pets as well. And let's be honest, noone ever said "my BoP carrier pets suck" on the forum.

    As for the negativity - I'm not sure there's much real negativity in the responses. At least I don't believe there was any in mine. The thing is, you're probably one of few people that thought about this while most of us didn't think about it, so people's responses are in line with the fact that most of them never considered the flanking to be implemented on the BoP pets.

    Should they get this or not - that's a whole other discussion. On one hand, the BoP pets have the ability to cloak like the player ship, on the other if they give them flanking it would arguably not be long before people start asking for the carrier pets to completely mimic the player ship.



    I meant the BoP pets are fine as far as carrier pets go. The AI being TRIBBLE is a known fact. :P

    Maybe negativity was the wrong word - resistance?

    I think there have been a few issues with Carrier Pets. There have been quite a few nerfs (Marauders in particular), the countless AI issues, the Bugships being a kagillion dollars and the new thing where it seems that every second ship gets to HAVE pets when they used to be a KDF exclusive in the 'before' times :) . I think I could get past most of these things if they kept the status quo and just threw in the flanking bonus for me to watch occassionally as my pets blindly fly into a tactical cube exploding.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    solidshatner wrote: »
    Oh, and before I forget - Carrier Pets are FAAAAAAAAAAR from fine. Especially in the AI dept.

    Well, sure a lot of pets are pretty weak overall. Though I wouldn't put BoP pets in that category personally.

    But yes, their AI sucks, but the AI sucks for all pets, and really, all NPCs in the whole game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    A mime is a terrible thing to waste
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote:
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I really thought more people would jump on board and help me make a case for this. :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • r5e4w3q2r5e4w3q2 Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Flanking bonus for pets with current AI would be rather useless, because the pets are way too dumb to use it.

    Flanking bonus for pets with a functional AI would probably crazy overpowered seeing as pets are currently balanced with the broken AI, requiring piles of nerfing, gobs of dev time and much screaming from carrier pilots.

    While I like the concept, all in all I just do not see it as worth the time.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,897 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    solidshatner wrote: »
    I really thought more people would jump on board and help me make a case for this. :(

    They don't need it, they're some of the more powerful carrier pets...and I've never even used the fleet ones. I can just imagine how nasty 4 HY III's would be with a 25% flanking bonus and decloak bonus...no player could survive that.

    They're pets not raiders...they don't use hit and run tactics and they don't use cloak at all except mostly when you recall them.



    If anything needs a buff it's fighters...
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited May 2014
    Eh, frigate pets are strong because they dont die to FAWspam like smaller pets, who also can spam Torpedos. I dont think BoP pets need to flank, though, because it would be a micromanagement nightmare for the captain.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Let them work on something else...
    Put this on the far far back burner
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • hawke89305092hawke89305092 Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Not being a carrier pilot myself I don't really have much of an opinion on pets getting flanking.

    However, I will say that I would fully support NPC BoPs getting flanking bonuses, as well as some sort of rudimentary AI telling them to cloak and attack the rear arc.

    It would make them more interesting to fight as well as more unique, and that's something that a large chunk of enemies in this game sorely need.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,897 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    catliketyping wrote: »
    Eh, frigate pets are strong because they dont die to FAWspam like smaller pets, who also can spam Torpedos. I dont think BoP pets need to flank, though, because it would be a micromanagement nightmare for the captain.

    It's a little more than just that, they're strong because they're powerful...frigates in a lot of cases are the most powerful pets in the game.

    The BoP's may not be as powerful as they once were with newer pets like the JHAS, Mesh Weavers, and Drone ships...but they're still good solid pets.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    It's a little more than just that, they're strong because they're powerful...frigates in a lot of cases are the most powerful pets in the game.

    The BoP's may not be as powerful as they once were with newer pets like the JHAS, Mesh Weavers, and Drone ships...but they're still good solid pets.

    The question is, can they hold themselves vs. elite obelsiks. If not, they need improvement (as Ferjai do).
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    nccmark wrote: »
    The bonus was never intended for pets or NPCs. Playable ships only.
    Unnecessary gameplay-story segregation. NPC ships should have every skill player ships have.
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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Unnecessary gameplay-story segregation. NPC ships should have every skill player ships have.

    NPC ships yes. Carrier pets no, that would make the carrier combo waaay overpowered.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,897 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    The question is, can they hold themselves vs. elite obelsiks. If not, they need improvement (as Ferjai do).

    The Swarmers are fighters not frigates so I don't count them like I didn't count the Scorpions. Personally I think the fighters in total should do more damage in exchange in their huge dip in survivability. Having something do the best damage and have the most survivability is stupid, but hey that's STO for you I guess.

    I never really considered the Fer'jai as pure damage like the BoP's...the Fer'jai are more for like control or debuff, with their Aceton beam and their tricobalt weaponry.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    NPC ships yes. Carrier pets no, that would make the carrier combo waaay overpowered.
    That would imply that the pets have decent enough A.I. =p
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  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I really don't agree on the the whole 'OP' issue if this was to be a reality. As is, you're hard pressed to see a carrier in PvP AT ALL much less a pet in PvE that doesnt love flying into another ship exploding or getting ganked by a gateway when you've clearly selected another target in many STFs.

    For the amount of stupid AI issues on pets - Im just saying it would be nice to see a flanking bonus on the off chance one of my pets happened GET behind a target - which IMHO would be pretty slim as AI stands now.

    There may even be unforseen benefits as well - like maybe NOT seeing a Jem Frig on the Exchange for 500,000,000,000,000 EC . . .

    No?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    NPC ships yes. Carrier pets no, that would make the carrier combo waaay overpowered.

    Do you know how dumb carrier pets are? It wouldn't make much difference.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    centersolace wrote: »
    Do you know how dumb carrier pets are? It wouldn't make much difference.

    On my Vesta, whenever I recall the Yellowstones only 2 of them dock and 2 of them just go on "pause" and don't move any more. And that's only 1 hangar bay. Believe me, I know how dumb they are.

    Just to clarify, my post was refering to the statement wheather NPCs should have every skill a player ship has in terms of layout and Boff abilities. That's why I said for standard NPCs this would be fun, but for carrier pets a bit too much.
    I wasn't referring for the flanking itself, to be honest I'm indifferent about it and it won't bother me either way.
    HQroeLu.jpg
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