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How stimulate people to contribute doffs into starbase projects?
nandospc
Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
That's the situation:
We are close to T5, there are a lot of people online at the same time in the roster (more than 20-30 usually in the prime time), there are a lot of doffs in the starbase projects and there is a guide about "how to find doffs in sto" available to the fleet. The problem is that barely a few fleetmates continue to contribute doffs into projects steadily, every day, the others just seem simply passive, and they always need a "boost" in fleet chat to get them to contribute, otherwise it happens that they ignore them. We don't ask so much, just a very little amount of doffs per player (like 5-10), but it seems to ask the MOON apparently :rolleyes:. On the other hand, the fleet marks are just filled in NANOseconds, but i think this is not a news :P
I'm just wondering if the doffs problem is common through the fleets and if it has been solved by some of them; in this case: how?
Thanks in advance.
ps: i know that selecting one by one the doffs when you contribute it's quite tedious, but until the cryptic doesn't create a faster method, it remains the only one available...
We are close to T5, there are a lot of people online at the same time in the roster (more than 20-30 usually in the prime time), there are a lot of doffs in the starbase projects and there is a guide about "how to find doffs in sto" available to the fleet. The problem is that barely a few fleetmates continue to contribute doffs into projects steadily, every day, the others just seem simply passive, and they always need a "boost" in fleet chat to get them to contribute, otherwise it happens that they ignore them. We don't ask so much, just a very little amount of doffs per player (like 5-10), but it seems to ask the MOON apparently :rolleyes:. On the other hand, the fleet marks are just filled in NANOseconds, but i think this is not a news :P
I'm just wondering if the doffs problem is common through the fleets and if it has been solved by some of them; in this case: how?
Thanks in advance.
ps: i know that selecting one by one the doffs when you contribute it's quite tedious, but until the cryptic doesn't create a faster method, it remains the only one available...
@NandoPC - CSI - Confederazione Stellare Italiana - Seguimi su STOItalia - Il blog italiano su Star Trek Online - STO-League
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1. A way to buy multiple doffs off the exchange, or a way to auto buy with set parameters. So if there was a way to set "buy common science doffs 30k ec or less" or maybe "buy 77 common science doffs beginning at lowest price".
(I really don't know how they'd do this though)
2. Increase FM payout for doffs.
3. Balance costs.
But then you will always have the people that grind FMs to no end and set alarms to contribute FMs only. Then they complain they have no FM sink and get irritated when you tell them there are other things like dilithium and doffs they could be contributing...
I think FMs should get a 1 to 1 FC return. Dilithium should be 1 to 3, Doffs should be 1 to 500 (not very well thought out but you get the idea, nerf FM to FC rates, buff dilithium to FC rates!)
Like I said, not very well thought out.
Not wrong -- GRIND worthy. I think they did it on purpose assuming we'd either be doing the recruit missions at the academy or the support missions in star clusters to get the DOffs we need. That said, THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. And the goal is to keep us lifers busy and distracted. The logic is that the longer it takes the less well have to complain about. Think about that.
And most people simply won't contribute for fleet any thing they need to pay for, and that means larger number of doffs. Everyone want fleet toys, but only few are ready to pay for them.
Some Fleets are short Fleet Credits, some short doffs, some short dilithium, etc. It would allow Fleet Leaders to control what people were grinding for without just "DO THIS BECAUSE WE NEED IT", and reward players for different types of grinding.
In large Fleets, you have to set cell phone alarms to contribute Fleet Marks and Expertise, and then it's a far lesser number of people contributing dilithium and doffs.
Some sort of control would have to be put on this adjustment to prevent abuse by leaders (ie jack up Fleet Credit value, contribute, then put it back down). Perhaps a cooldown on changes. That being said, I would imagine Fleet Leaders abusing this would find themselves without members in short order.
Easiest way would be to have specific FC pool for projects and option to set at the project select how many of them goes to specific contribution items with minimum ratio 1:1.
And no for any type of "abuse protecting" mechanism for this or any other fleet aspect. We already have the best possible protect: own thinking mind. Don't like how your Fleet leader does, than change Fleet. Stop trying to protect people from their own stupidity, let natural selection work.
One thing I notice is that usually players will blow their fleet credits at the starbase to fill the need but with the credit sink in the other holding's provisions I viewed this as stupid. Earning them by requesting officers are slow and cadres are expensive.
The officer exchange at the sfa/kdf academy is best. You can buy green doffs for about 50k ec and blues for about 150k ec each. A green is 3 white or a blue is 9 whites. Think about how much you have to buy a white officer for. Currently eng common doff is 40k ec, tac is about 35k ec, sci is 25k ec and civilians are 10k ec. That is an average of 27.5k ec.
If a green doff at 50k gets you 3 whites that average value at 27.5k ec on the exchange and you were to sell all 3 that is 82.5k value. That is 32,000 ec for nothing but your time to grind doffs in the meat grinder.
That blue doff for 150k gives a return value of 247.5k in return.
These white doffs will sell on the exchange because there is a lot of people who buy them off the exchange to fill their fleet projects.
I have skimmed the career I need off the top and sell the rest to keep the flow going. and if you put them on the exchange you can make you money back when you are not logged in.
If you crack a blue and get green technicians or green refugees then you make even more money because they are worth at least 150 k on their own.
If fleet marks fill up instantly then stop farming them and let them fill them and fill the doffs and commodities for your credits.
That being said, I would imagine such a change would require some serious development time, because right now the values of all the contributions are probably just hard coded somewhere. Allowing the Fleet Leader to hand out FC as he or she wishes would be a significant change.
Perhaps offer a reward for the top 3 officer contributions or something.... give em a fleet module or key ...?
The issue with limited credits in this game is always going to be the fleet provisions that cost 600 and give nothing. I put some math in this post.
In that post there is one image you really need to look at. If you are suffering from credits it is because you have leechers that contribute to get fleet credits leaving some one else to pay the bill by not contributing provisions as upgrades have a deficit.
Since fleet credits stay with you no matter what fleet you are in the leader setting the value of credits is a very bad idea. Players will bail your fleet and go to the ones with the most rewards.
I gave a valid solution to doffs. The exchange is player driven and is not an exploit.
If you are complaining that there are too many fleet marks out there then ask cryptic to remove sources of marks. The only reason why they fill faster is not the valuation of the ease of acquiring.
Fleet leaders have every right to manage their fleet for who donates and who does not.
That could work, but as I wrote previously every project should have exact FC value as it is now. What Fleet Leader could set will be how those FC are distributed by project while it's chose. You want to reward with FC those who for example contribute commodities than you set most of FC from this project goes to commodites, rest of iteams (FM, EXP, etc.) will give FC at 1:1 ratio.
You could set it only once for project at the moment when you put it as active to contribute.
Even setting one item to max and fill it and trying to change value won't work because earned FC from those items would by already take from max project FC value.
What difference does changing the different values have when a project can have a net loss of over a million fleet credits?
Ok doffs in direct ratio gives more FC from one item, but projects usually need only up to 50, when FM goes in thousands. With 50 doffs 300FC each you get 15000 FC, and from 1000 FM 50FC each you get 50000 FC. You see difference? You get much more from items which you get by the way doing other stuff (10-15 minute mission gives over 30-40 FM + dilithium and other stuff) then from those which you have to buy or spend time only for getting them.
Changing values could motivate players to contribute other than easiest to obtain materials mostly FM and EXP. Yes, project can give now over million FC but with six type of needed materials over 50% of FC goes now from contribution of two easiest to (and for free) obtained items: FM and EXP (you get them from nearly any endgame mission which you do because there isn't any thing else to do at endgame).
Regardless of the what you earn from doff donation, getting fleet-mates to help out is sometimes a major frustrating point.
It's so easy to donate Marks, commodities and gear. But when it comes to doffs and to some extent dilithium, your fleet members tend to not help.
Within our fleet we chose the following course:
Tracking this was difficult, but being a smaller fleet management could actively monitor who donated. The tough part was this:
That's right. We kicked players out for not following a balanced donation process. It didn't take much to bring the entire active fleet into line. Sadly I had to let go 1 guy, who after repeated warnings ignored the policy. He was a decent player, someone I brought over from my old fleet AND a heavy contributor.
But fleets are not democracies....
We're complete on every project and fleet holding. We have copuous amounts of provisions. And we still maintain a balanced approach to donations. If players need a lot of FM? No problem - fill this entire project, and it's all yours.
No issues. A little management hassle. And a completed fleet.
Yes, and no. We have guides to help you here: dtfleet.com.
A single player with little effort can donate 5 doffs every 48 hours without cost. They're free.
A single player can earn enough ec in 8 minutes on a loot-type Foundry mission to buy at least 10 doffs. On good days, you can buy 20-30 for the same amount with a little effort while cruising the exchange.
A single player can with a 300K ec investment, can flip items on the exchange to lazy players for a 400-500K ec proffit. Another 10 doffs+
Lets not forget you pick up stuff while grinding. 1 rare console can generate 200K. 6 Doffs.
Feeling Ferengi? 2 days limits on dilithium = 125 Zen = 1 key = about 2 million ec = 55 Doffs.
Edit: With the key sale on, 1.62 days limit on dil = 107 Zen = 1 key = about 2 million ec = 55 Doffs.
A single player can spend fleet credits to buy fleet doffs. UNLIMITED fleet doffs. Plus if you actually take the time to look at your fleet doffs, mixed in are a few hard to get doffs which you can resell on the exchange for larger amounts of ec, driving even greater numbers of doffs. Remember, you get FC back at the same time - diminishing returns yes, but well worth it.
In our fleet when days got slow, the more active players could donate 50 or more a few times a week buy buying doffs with fleet credits.
Simply put there is NO excuse that can counter 15 minutes of your day to provide at least 10 doffs PER toon.
How tough is that?
This is most horrifying idea I've heard to date. You're actually suggesting that your people do this?
Yes, I have found this to be the most organized way of doing things, as the boxes can simply be banked until the appointed time, in neatly stacked piles, so lack of doff storage space isn't a huge issue. Unfortunately it also runs at -FC, and thus cannot be sustained.
A T4 Starbase has a the daily requirement for doffs is 462 a day. (We are T4)
As they are common doffs, it is very easy to fill them, right now, uncommon doffs are cheap and can be ground down to 3 commons in a minute.
The common doffs at the starbase are cheap as well, they cost like 325 Fleet credits each. Anyone that is contributing to the fleet on a daily basis, will not doubt have extra fleet credits to purchase some.
People are willing to trade doffs for fleet credits (you invite, they donate) all the time on ESD. Keep an eye out for it.
Lastly, with the limit per toon at 500 doff roster, people can have 100 to 200 common doffs ready for projects at any given time.
No. The point was made for illustrative purposes. I frankly find any use of dilithium for anything other than my own personal gratification is completely disgusting. Having said that I have dropped a few million in dil on various fleet projects as have many others in my fleet. We jokingly refer to it as 'you were holding out you cheap bugger'
I take offense at people who say 'I can't donate doffs' as being willfully ignorant and very self-indulgent. The expectation that they can fill all the fleet mark requirements without sharing the doffing burden as grossly unfair.
Admittedly, I also think normal people are pretty useless in general. No one sane has ever achieved greatness. Sanity is the first and foremost obstacle to success.