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Magical DEM damage.
senatorvreenak
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Ok, can someone explain to me how a ship running DEM3 can destroy a ship with a 60k hull with every imaginable damage resistance buff active and RSP in mere seconds?
No matter what I do it seems to be impossible for me to replicate this effect, with either a tac or an engineer.
I know Marion is a popular doff, but these days there are alternative ways for keeing weapons power up, and even then I cannot make it work.
Ive alternated between damage types, tried everything from BFAW spam to CRF and and Dual Cannons.
Most of the time the hull damage I do with DEM3 to any ship running resistance buffs is marginal at best.
Is it even legitimately possible or is it some kind of exploit going around???
No matter what I do it seems to be impossible for me to replicate this effect, with either a tac or an engineer.
I know Marion is a popular doff, but these days there are alternative ways for keeing weapons power up, and even then I cannot make it work.
Ive alternated between damage types, tried everything from BFAW spam to CRF and and Dual Cannons.
Most of the time the hull damage I do with DEM3 to any ship running resistance buffs is marginal at best.
Is it even legitimately possible or is it some kind of exploit going around???
Post edited by senatorvreenak on
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Its not the DEM killing you... its the faw direct dmg. DEM is just some icing on the cake. With A2B 3/4 uptime on one copy of dem makes it a pretty easy choice.
A good way to understand what the hell is going on is to log a match and then to use a parser for analysis. Record your matches watch closely, buffs and debuffs.
It likely wasn't just DEM3 but in conjunction with other powers. I think what happened was that your shield facing was down momentarily and RSP cannot protect any facings without shield. The spike DMG killed you while your shield facing is down.
And I cant even replicate it by stacking every damage buff I know of with DEM3.
Should also mention I am being fired at by cannon weapons, not BFAW spam.
The bottom line is we need more information. There is a ton of possible reasons that could explain what happened. Another probability not mentioned is that you were hit with Proton Barrage. Your hull DMG resist could also be greatly reduced via a number of powers. With bleed through up to 12.5% , CRF can indeed kill targets based on bleed through, especially when assisted by DEM.
What I find peculiar is DEM III and use of cannons. Ships that use DEM 3 rarely use Cannons because they often don't have Tact stations higher than Lt. Station. Something doesn't add up in your story.
Of all the answers the OP is getting, this one is the correct one. RSP is worthless if your shields have been brought down. Everything has a counter, even mighty RSP.
The Beam Overload Doff stacks and it debuffs your shields to take more bleed through damage. That's for everyone who's attacking you, not just the person with the BO doffs. Also, elachi energy weapons can have some crazy bleed through. All that, + DEM on an alpha can take almost anyone down through shields. It's pretty TRIBBLE.
This...record things from time to time - check the logs - check them in a parser as well as just the chat window...in the heat of combat, it can be easy to miss something or simply not have the time to review what's going on because you've got to get back in the fight.
As has been mentioned in the thread, even with DEM being per pulse rather than per cycle - it was still likely the result of other things going on. And a good way to see that if you're not familiar with it happening at the time or after it happened while you're waiting to respawn is that record and/or review of logs sort of thing.
I think I mentioned it in another thread here recently - how you can have folks flying around in circles with basically nothing happening - healing covering the damage so nobody's going to die...then poof, somebody pops. Just a random proc going off and setting somebody up for the slaughter. That 30% on BO to give somebody a bad day.
Or you're even facing the potential change in the removal of the proc lockout on the Elachis. Some increased penetration stacking from Nanites and T2 Nukara...a combination of everything all going on near the same time.
Can be flying around with 45-55-60k hull - with everything fine...a proc here, proc there, and you're looking at the Respawn.
It's kind of depressing, stepping back for a moment - taking a look - and realizing just how much of this game comes down to all sorts of random procs...whether on the damage side or the healing side.
Should change what folks say after a fight, eh?
"Good procs!"
"Better proc next time!"
Meh...
In my case, a unbuffed tac ship (a friend in a controlled match, so I know it was unbuffed) came attacking me with plain cannon attacks. The attacks went 100% straight to hull, completely skipping shields but only on my left facing. All facings showed as full during the attack.
A couple other users reported the same thing, but I guess it wasn't as spread as I hoped - wanted it to get more noticed and reported. Perhaps the bug is back and affecting only a few players.
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I thought they removed the lockout from elachi weapons.
As has been said, parse a bit. Then parse a bit more.
Elachi and Elite Disruptors, passive pen, DEM, BO Doffs. Combined these things will melt you inside your shields very quickly. Super trash but it is in the game. You can run but that is about it. Downside to facing a solid Aux to Bat build or a similar build using Tac Doffs is that they can be up more than you can evade.
I'll dance around with one ship using this type of build. Two members of my team will show up. BFAW DEM is unleashed and the two new guys melt. Just gone. They were a bit less prepared I guess.
So. If there IS some actual exploit, I don't know of it. All the evidence I've ever seen points to legitimate stacking of penetration.
And because I LOVE beating the TRIBBLE out of dead horses, stuff like this happens when you try to balance a hit mechanic using a resistance mechanic. Oh hey, look at that, it isn't consistent across classes. Oh well, better luck next time!
I know exactly what you are talking about.
Had it a fair few times, it seems only a handful can do it to that effect.
Shields don't even waver, it's just a complete shield ignore.
My build may be a little behind these days but I can still survive a decloak alpha (was setup to shrug off double tap alphas), yet when the 'magical' players come in, there's nothing you can do.
Last time I checked, my ships can't slot every resistance buff available.
dem is strange. sometimes in parces or just looking at the in game log you see there isnt an entry for every shot like there should be if there's enough shots all at once. some just get lost because there's just to many regular entries per second too.
and faw with its like 2 extra false swings per shot for available target scouting, that was buged to trigger per shot effects and procs like DEM, glider, the cuting beam 2 part, etc too. illegibly, it doenst do that anymore, all those things are much less effective with FAW then they used to be, to the point of having a cutting beam with your beam arrays is doing it wrong now. but, you still get 10 swings per cycle per beam weapon on your ship wile its on, so per shot effect city, but you cant get more then 5 out of 10 on a single target, so the only thing you blow up is the scoreboard!
beam subsystem attacks when I have none, differing energy weapon types when I don't have them, etc...
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yes the lockout was removed in the march 13th patch.
but borticus also said its not a per shot proc, when it has to be, so i really have no clue what the deal is with elachi weapons right now
Literally iced me with full shields in 2 seconds or less. From the log it appeared that the DEM3 damage was 500% more than normal.
Perhaps it has some weird interaction with DEM since it fires so fast? Or something to do with Accuracy rating? I think some testing would be advised.
*shrugs* Only one of my ships had a ResB on, and all of them got chewed just as bad, even the ones with rep shields.. And it seemed worse than other enemies.
Scimitar can do more, but consider that DEM2 isn't as powerful as DEM3.
Critical plasmaprocs combined with disruptor debuff?
Or could the disruptor debuff proc be stacking? Would explain high damage to the hull of the elachi and DEM procs, while someone has maxed out his resistance
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