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A Modest Proposal To Solve The So-Called "Admiral Problem"

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  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    First, it's a game so who cares. But if you want it accurate from a Fed or Navy perspective, it would probably look like this....

    Commanders and Captains command ships, RADM Upper half would command Battle Groups, VADM would command fleets. Admirals would command multiple fleets and a Fleet Admiral would be the interface with political leadership.

    For those that RP, well the game is canon sort of, your away team would be your armed escorts. Mine just happens to be a Breen and a Jem'Hadar Tac, Naussican Engineer, and Trill Science Officer.
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Exactly.

    And Star Trek has shown commanders in a position of senior authority as well. Most notably, Sisko was a commander for the longest time before the writers promoted him.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    In fact:
    in the federation ships are commanded by captains. No commanders, no admirals. Captains.
    False. Sisko held the rank of commander (O-5) while having two commands (DS9 and USS Defiant) and was only promoted to captain (O-6) in "The Adversary" at the end of season 3. He was also kicked upstairs to war planning for a few episodes, whereupon Jadzia Dax, a lieutenant commander (O-4), was left CO of Defiant. That's the episode where we get the line that a ship CO is addressed as "captain" regardless of what their actual rank is.

    But you're absolutely right that admirals don't command ships, they direct fleets.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    IMO it's wrong to assume that a completely alien / different military even HAS exact equivalents to all ranks of "our" military.

    In fact:
    in the federation ships are commanded by captains. No commanders, no admirals. Captains.
    We saw Romulan ships beeing commanded by colonels, sub commanders, commanders and, not sure, may be even admirals.

    So romulan commander = federation captain is only the result of the attempt to force an exact equivalent.

    Commodore Decker would like a word with you.

    I's like to top out at Commodore not Captain, I'm not fighting a Doomsday machine as a mere Captain.

    And none of that 5 levels RA LH TRIBBLE, a proper 10 level Commodore.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    artan42 wrote: »
    Commodore Decker would like a word with you.

    I's like to top out at Commodore not Captain, I'm not fighting a Doomsday machine as a mere Captain.

    And none of that 5 levels RA LH TRIBBLE, a proper 10 level Commodore.

    Well I was thinking of the tng era first, there, according to Geordie la forge, they don't have commodores any more.
    I wouldn't mind the rank beeing available when ranks become costumizable anyway :P

    Still... The point was another one^^
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    Well I was thinking of the tng era first, there, according to Geordie la forge, they don't have commodores any more.
    I wouldn't mind the rank beeing available when ranks become costumizable anyway :P

    Still... The point was another one^^

    When was that mentioned?
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    artan42 wrote: »
    When was that mentioned?

    Nowhere, as far as I can tell. He seems to be confused: Geordi called someone with the rank of "Centurion" a commodore and was corrected.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    artan42 wrote: »
    When was that mentioned?

    That was that episodes with Geordies mother... Don't remember the title.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    That was that episodes with Geordies mother... Don't remember the title.

    That was against a Romulan Centurion (whom I thought were equivalent to SF Commanders)
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    False. Sisko held the rank of commander (O-5) while having two commands (DS9 and USS Defiant) and was only promoted to captain (O-6) in "The Adversary" at the end of season 3. He was also kicked upstairs to war planning for a few episodes, whereupon Jadzia Dax, a lieutenant commander (O-4), was left CO of Defiant. That's the episode where we get the line that a ship CO is addressed as "captain" regardless of what their actual rank is.

    But you're absolutely right that admirals don't command ships, they direct fleets.

    This reaffirms my point somewhat though that the idea that admirals hold multiple commands is a faulty premise that probably determined the rank structure based around the "commanding multiple ships" mechanic they've been planning for five years.

    When, in fact, just as Lt's sometimes command ships, Captains can hold multiple commands or be strategic coordinator for fleets. Admirals aren't super-captains. They're bureaucrats. Same difference between being a professor and being a dean.
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