The non stf queues are not as busy because they dont offer anything that contributes to the grind we have to go through. The dil they can give is made up for through the STFs, so of course there is going to be more people in the STF related queues. Also, define 'pretty dead.' I've run a verity of STF related content today with little to no downtime. Does that mean my experience applies to everybody else? No, of course not, but on the other hand, just because you appear to have hit a slower time of day to play said content does not mean people are leaving the game.
Again, reread my earlier post if you must, I did put more meat into it then just the one line you appear to be focusing on. I challenged the OP to bring the official numbers from a verified source to the table so we can hash it out, and if the OP could not, then it is simply speculation on his/her part.
As for the removal of the daily events, I don't have much of a problem with it. I still hit my daily limits through the content we have in about the same amount of time before, though I have to contribute a good deal of my success to my fleet, who holds daily runs. Again, I did not 'distract' from the point of this thread, I challenged the OP. There is a difference. If I wished to distract the point, I would have thrown in a kitten.
Like I said, our experience is based on the channel wide experience in the DPS channels, not the experience of just one or two people at times here and there. I'd say we have a much more representative read on the situation than one's personal experience.
Our members comprise of the highest PVE Dpsing and dedicated STF players in the game - we know what we are talking about, and aren't making this up.
The other problem with weekend events or even the week long events, is that it rail-roads interested players into doing a single thing all weekend or all week. Leaving the other players totally out in the cold with no one to play with.
Experience week is a prime example, a good chunk of the playerbase goes off training alts, meanwhile all the STFs go dead and players who have fully trained toons have absolutely nothing to do and no one to play with.
Here is where the hourly event system really shined, events were quickly rotated so there was a playerbase in most areas of the game throughout the day.
As I understand it, the statistics told Cryptic that most people did not actually benefit from the hourlies.
So yes, it could very well be that it meant that people were more or less distributed evenly across the available (and still "en vogue") options in game, but the bonuses were only utilized by a minority of players.
The weekends presumably help more players to grab these bonuses. That may come at the cost of diversity. What is better? Whose interest is more important? Which will have the larger impact on player retention or player conversion?
I suppose Cryptic is gathering the data. And if changes seem required to them, they are likely to happen, probably in some big season update. Nothing is ever static in an MMO.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Do you actually like weekend events more then hourly events, and why? I find this opposition to people wanting hourly back baffling
Yes, absolutely. I have no use for hourly events, I never observed them, and it was mere accident if something I would want to do would cooincide with something the calendar told me to do.
I just will not and do not micromanage my play-time by the hour. By the week-end -that I can do. I can freely decide whether I want to level my alt, logging in 10 am or 10 pm doesn't matter, or whether I want to get some dilithium (neat, also - there's lot of activity I can do to earn that) or marks (again, lots of possible activity.)
But even that I can and will still ignore occasionally. I pretty much completely missed the last Foundry Event. (Despite nominally a fan of the Foundry.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I understand what you are saying Alfie, and I also am concerned.
You do need to remember that you and I are two people who focus on ONE part of the game (primarily) and also focus on mingling with a subgroup of people also interested in it. Our concerns may not exactly resonate with as many people as we would like, despite the size of the DPS channel population.
In my opinion, the only reason so many of the experienced players remain in this game is because they are dedicated Trek fans that have this one interactive place to experience the Trek universe for lack of a better alternative. However, the content has been repeated SO many times, and the devs seem bound to repeat the same lockbox/gambling/power creep/cheese console method of continuation. So, people are now feeling...done. It's not necessarily resentment, just acceptance (think grief stages). New players will continue to try the game and leave, and people like me will stick around because I like micromanaging my toons and imagining I am making a difference in a fake Trek galaxy. But it may be time to accept that what was once a game made up of gaming veterans is finally gone, or at least heading that way. It makes me sick to see so many of my friends leave, but yet I understand. There's not a lot to be done. STO was never going to be the next WoW, and it has had a good run of retaining good people. But that time may be over.
Edit: All of that being said, I DO absolutely think that having mark and dilithium bonus events as seldom as they are is a GARGANTUAN mistake (my Kill Bill moment, lol). Whatever logic they were employing to justify weekend events was flawed because only during the marks and dil weekends have I seen any notable player activity increase (from my perspective). So as far as joining the cause for reevaluating the weekend event structure and frequency, consider me /signed
Starfleet: Persephone, Silas, Alexandra, Purrs-a-lot, Insanity, Alala, Nicki Minaj, Apathy and Liz Lemon KDF: Absolution, Vox, Vadim, Sammiches and Unknown Refugee Member of Network 23 FED and Imperial Legion
Unless somebody brings in the number of players from a dev or something official, all this is speculation. Just because you don't see players in a certain zone at one point doesn't mean people are leaving in droves. School day, work day, family, natural disaster, internet shortage, etc, could all keep people from going ingame.
I have to love statements like that.
Some players will probably still believe the game is running well when they are the last person playing because "hey I didn't see the devs posting numbers."
Probably even a year after the game is shut down they still believe the game is running well because no dev said otherwise :rolleyes:
Using the own brain is to much of a challenge to some.
Elder Scrolls Online launched yesterday, so a lot of people are probably checking that out, especially the vets who have nothing to do here but something to do there
so iv been looking around and it seems cryptic don't want us to know what the current population is how ever it seems that steam has at least its side of this covered
so iv been looking around and it seems cryptic don't want us to know what the current population is how ever it seems that steam has at least its side of this covered
id just like to state that i am aware that this is only steam users and that i am not stupid i was just trying to help hi-light the numbers that ppl are asking for in this thread.....sorry for being the only guy on here that did research in to the dwindling population before qq'ing about it....
on the note of numbers in the queues this is not a very acc cos if you look though the instances there are hundreds on....
i have absolutely know idea what they are doing
Nobody will ever be able to know what the current population is without Cryptic's data. The only way you could get an "idea" of what the population is would be an incredibly difficult task. There are so many variables you have to compute. Like the one I originally mentioned, time of day ETC.
It would take a group of staticians a lot of time and research to even get a general clue.
on the note of numbers in the queues this is not a very acc cos if you look though the instances there are hundreds on....
i have absolutely know idea what they are doing
The problem is that most of the games "content" is in the "Q's" - and a lot of those missions outside of the main 3 are hard to get off. On the KDF side - outside of the 3 hr bonus time you could forget about anything that was KDF only.
Often you will have 100 people on ESD just talking political nonsense - I don't really count that as constructive players.
You're all forgeting that queues are only part of the story. Private teams will invevitably use private challenge maps, and numbers here are not reflected in the queues.
For example, in DPS, 99% of runs are done using private challenge maps - and this is where we are observiing the reduction in activity (organised team play, not pug runs). Indeed because some people can't find a proper premade team, they are forced to hop into the queues.:( - which may infact bump up the numbers there!
You're all forgeting that queues are only part of the story. Private teams will invevitably use private challenge maps, and numbers here are not reflected in the queues.
For example, in DPS, 99% of runs are done using private challenge maps - and this is where we are observiing the reduction in activity (organised team play, not pug runs). Indeed because some people can't find a proper premade team, they are forced to hop into the queues.:( - which may infact bump up the numbers there!
Let's not forget players running story missions, or traveling in sector space, or in the foundry, in hanging out in the social zones, or on adventure planets, or in space adventure zones, and so on.
You're all forgeting that queues are only part of the story. Private teams will invevitably use private challenge maps, and numbers here are not reflected in the queues.
For example, in DPS, 99% of runs are done using private challenge maps - and this is where we are observiing the reduction in activity (organised team play, not pug runs). Indeed because some people can't find a proper premade team, they are forced to hop into the queues.:( - which may infact bump up the numbers there!
Well since Cryptic keeps claiming everything is rosy - but wont release hard numbers - all we can go on is what we personally obsever.
This is what I observe - my friends list of 80 people used to show on avg 20 online at any given time - now the max I have seen is 3.
Well since Cryptic keeps claiming everything is rosy - but wont release hard numbers - all we can go on is what we personally obsever.
This is what I observe - my friends list of 80 people used to show on avg 20 online at any given time - now the max I have seen is 3.
That is my evidence.
But you have no idea if the amount of friends you lost was easily replaced by the same if not a higher number of newer players coming in. Your personal friend list is not an accurate measure of a game's population.
But you have no idea if the amount of friends you lost was easily replaced by the same if not a higher number of newer players coming in. Your personal friend list is not an accurate measure of a game's population.
Well in the long term view from a personal perspective - high turnover of friends due to problems with the game is not good. I believe the discussion is more about having people to play with that you know and like - players only staying in the game 3-6 months does not benefit any of the vets - even if it does pad PWE's bottom line.
And since it's all about PWE's bottom line vs player retention we should just expect more of the same and move on?
Well in the long term view from a personal perspective - high turnover of friends due to problems with the game is not good. I believe the discussion is more about having people to play with that you know and like - players only staying in the game 3-6 months does not benefit any of the vets - even if it does pad PWE's bottom line.
And since it's all about PWE's bottom line vs player retention we should just expect more of the same and move on?
Turnover is normal. People change jobs, get married, get bored and change games, whatever. The point here is that anecdote is not data, and without data its just speculation.
Its definitely desirable to retain players as long as possible (something cryptic doesnt try for very hard). People who play certainly spend more money in the c-store than people who don't play. The lack of an end-game is probably the #1 thing working against STO and there is no indication of cryptic understanding this. The only end-game content here is griding for stuff, which you eventually get, and then there is literally nothing else to do. No trading, crafting, open pvp, exploration systems, housing customization, ..., nothing but grind that is eventually met.
Cryptic has made changes to slow down the rate at which resources can be gathered (removal of hourlies, removal of fleet mark farming, etc), but what I am seeing is that stuff only means the established players are less likely to build secondary toons/ships, since the grind is harder (takes longer) for something where the rewards are smaller (alternate toon/ship). It has actually made the retention problem more acute.
Turnover is normal. People change jobs, get married, get bored and change games, whatever. The point here is that anecdote is not data, and without data its just speculation.
Its definitely desirable to retain players as long as possible (something cryptic doesnt try for very hard). People who play certainly spend more money in the c-store than people who don't play. The lack of an end-game is probably the #1 thing working against STO and there is no indication of cryptic understanding this. The only end-game content here is griding for stuff, which you eventually get, and then there is literally nothing else to do. No trading, crafting, open pvp, exploration systems, housing customization, ..., nothing but grind that is eventually met.
Cryptic has made changes to slow down the rate at which resources can be gathered (removal of hourlies, removal of fleet mark farming, etc), but what I am seeing is that stuff only means the established players are less likely to build secondary toons/ships, since the grind is harder (takes longer) for something where the rewards are smaller (alternate toon/ship). It has actually made the retention problem more acute.
Since the total pool of potential players for a game that focuses on the Star Trek IP is relatively finite - I would say that is a HUGE problem for the long-term viability of the game. Unless of course another TNG successful TV show comes along - but counting on that is not a viable business strategy.
Turnover is normal. People change jobs, get married, get bored and change games, whatever. The point here is that anecdote is not data, and without data its just speculation.
Its definitely desirable to retain players as long as possible (something cryptic doesnt try for very hard). People who play certainly spend more money in the c-store than people who don't play. The lack of an end-game is probably the #1 thing working against STO and there is no indication of cryptic understanding this. The only end-game content here is griding for stuff, which you eventually get, and then there is literally nothing else to do. No trading, crafting, open pvp, exploration systems, housing customization, ..., nothing but grind that is eventually met.
Cryptic has made changes to slow down the rate at which resources can be gathered (removal of hourlies, removal of fleet mark farming, etc), but what I am seeing is that stuff only means the established players are less likely to build secondary toons/ships, since the grind is harder (takes longer) for something where the rewards are smaller (alternate toon/ship). It has actually made the retention problem more acute.
I would like to agree and to thiss that some more endgame missions would be nice.
Though I have to say that the trading in this game is working like a Ferengi would wish, crafting does need to provide better items to be worth it.
Before it got a dil cost, ti was a good thing to equip alts with until you got fleet stuff on them.
As for housing, I would like that idea, but that's just personal roleplayer thing, not sure how the playerbase would like it. Better exploration seems like a popular request. Open pvp I'm not sure if people would like that.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Without access to the stats, making any judgement about the changes is moot. This is a business, and if the changes improve the bottom line, I am all for it.
Having said that....
The hourly events were helpful in bringing together fleet members.
The longer events, while fun, have a higher percentage of afk'ers than the shorter STF's. 1 in 5...
Comments
Like I said, our experience is based on the channel wide experience in the DPS channels, not the experience of just one or two people at times here and there. I'd say we have a much more representative read on the situation than one's personal experience.
Our members comprise of the highest PVE Dpsing and dedicated STF players in the game - we know what we are talking about, and aren't making this up.
I got my star-base up to tier 5 and then they changed it, now i log-in to refine my dilithium play 3 pvp games (for dilitium) log out.. and play MWO.
As I understand it, the statistics told Cryptic that most people did not actually benefit from the hourlies.
So yes, it could very well be that it meant that people were more or less distributed evenly across the available (and still "en vogue") options in game, but the bonuses were only utilized by a minority of players.
The weekends presumably help more players to grab these bonuses. That may come at the cost of diversity. What is better? Whose interest is more important? Which will have the larger impact on player retention or player conversion?
I suppose Cryptic is gathering the data. And if changes seem required to them, they are likely to happen, probably in some big season update. Nothing is ever static in an MMO.
I just will not and do not micromanage my play-time by the hour. By the week-end -that I can do. I can freely decide whether I want to level my alt, logging in 10 am or 10 pm doesn't matter, or whether I want to get some dilithium (neat, also - there's lot of activity I can do to earn that) or marks (again, lots of possible activity.)
But even that I can and will still ignore occasionally. I pretty much completely missed the last Foundry Event. (Despite nominally a fan of the Foundry.)
You do need to remember that you and I are two people who focus on ONE part of the game (primarily) and also focus on mingling with a subgroup of people also interested in it. Our concerns may not exactly resonate with as many people as we would like, despite the size of the DPS channel population.
In my opinion, the only reason so many of the experienced players remain in this game is because they are dedicated Trek fans that have this one interactive place to experience the Trek universe for lack of a better alternative. However, the content has been repeated SO many times, and the devs seem bound to repeat the same lockbox/gambling/power creep/cheese console method of continuation. So, people are now feeling...done. It's not necessarily resentment, just acceptance (think grief stages). New players will continue to try the game and leave, and people like me will stick around because I like micromanaging my toons and imagining I am making a difference in a fake Trek galaxy. But it may be time to accept that what was once a game made up of gaming veterans is finally gone, or at least heading that way. It makes me sick to see so many of my friends leave, but yet I understand. There's not a lot to be done. STO was never going to be the next WoW, and it has had a good run of retaining good people. But that time may be over.
Edit: All of that being said, I DO absolutely think that having mark and dilithium bonus events as seldom as they are is a GARGANTUAN mistake (my Kill Bill moment, lol). Whatever logic they were employing to justify weekend events was flawed because only during the marks and dil weekends have I seen any notable player activity increase (from my perspective). So as far as joining the cause for reevaluating the weekend event structure and frequency, consider me /signed
KDF: Absolution, Vox, Vadim, Sammiches and Unknown Refugee
Member of Network 23 FED and Imperial Legion
I have to love statements like that.
Some players will probably still believe the game is running well when they are the last person playing because "hey I didn't see the devs posting numbers."
Probably even a year after the game is shut down they still believe the game is running well because no dev said otherwise :rolleyes:
Using the own brain is to much of a challenge to some.
And their main interest is making money.
And the unavoidable means to that end is people playing the game....
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
as of the time posting this there is only 2036 logged in to sto
Got some bad news for you, that's steam pop, not STO.
read through the top 100 games fool
Again. steam users, not the whole population.
i know this thats why i said cryptic don't want us to know
Sorry.
50 in CC
70 in Infected Elite
55 in Vortex elite
only 10 now in Mirror elite as most people are done that grind
there are a few others with up to 10
Colony invasion
Klingon scout force
Gorn minefield
This is the weekend averages I have observed for over a month now
During the WEEK when bonus times were up - there were almost always DOUBLE these numbers
on the note of numbers in the queues this is not a very acc cos if you look though the instances there are hundreds on....
i have absolutely know idea what they are doing
We shall see around 2pm EST - but I don't expect much change.
It would take a group of staticians a lot of time and research to even get a general clue.
The problem is that most of the games "content" is in the "Q's" - and a lot of those missions outside of the main 3 are hard to get off. On the KDF side - outside of the 3 hr bonus time you could forget about anything that was KDF only.
Often you will have 100 people on ESD just talking political nonsense - I don't really count that as constructive players.
For example, in DPS, 99% of runs are done using private challenge maps - and this is where we are observiing the reduction in activity (organised team play, not pug runs). Indeed because some people can't find a proper premade team, they are forced to hop into the queues.:( - which may infact bump up the numbers there!
Let's not forget players running story missions, or traveling in sector space, or in the foundry, in hanging out in the social zones, or on adventure planets, or in space adventure zones, and so on.
Well since Cryptic keeps claiming everything is rosy - but wont release hard numbers - all we can go on is what we personally obsever.
This is what I observe - my friends list of 80 people used to show on avg 20 online at any given time - now the max I have seen is 3.
That is my evidence.
But you have no idea if the amount of friends you lost was easily replaced by the same if not a higher number of newer players coming in. Your personal friend list is not an accurate measure of a game's population.
Well in the long term view from a personal perspective - high turnover of friends due to problems with the game is not good. I believe the discussion is more about having people to play with that you know and like - players only staying in the game 3-6 months does not benefit any of the vets - even if it does pad PWE's bottom line.
And since it's all about PWE's bottom line vs player retention we should just expect more of the same and move on?
Its definitely desirable to retain players as long as possible (something cryptic doesnt try for very hard). People who play certainly spend more money in the c-store than people who don't play. The lack of an end-game is probably the #1 thing working against STO and there is no indication of cryptic understanding this. The only end-game content here is griding for stuff, which you eventually get, and then there is literally nothing else to do. No trading, crafting, open pvp, exploration systems, housing customization, ..., nothing but grind that is eventually met.
Cryptic has made changes to slow down the rate at which resources can be gathered (removal of hourlies, removal of fleet mark farming, etc), but what I am seeing is that stuff only means the established players are less likely to build secondary toons/ships, since the grind is harder (takes longer) for something where the rewards are smaller (alternate toon/ship). It has actually made the retention problem more acute.
Since the total pool of potential players for a game that focuses on the Star Trek IP is relatively finite - I would say that is a HUGE problem for the long-term viability of the game. Unless of course another TNG successful TV show comes along - but counting on that is not a viable business strategy.
I would like to agree and to thiss that some more endgame missions would be nice.
Though I have to say that the trading in this game is working like a Ferengi would wish, crafting does need to provide better items to be worth it.
Before it got a dil cost, ti was a good thing to equip alts with until you got fleet stuff on them.
As for housing, I would like that idea, but that's just personal roleplayer thing, not sure how the playerbase would like it. Better exploration seems like a popular request. Open pvp I'm not sure if people would like that.
Having said that....
The hourly events were helpful in bringing together fleet members.
The longer events, while fun, have a higher percentage of afk'ers than the shorter STF's. 1 in 5...