I recently switched from a Sovvy to an Oddy. The main difference between the two, when the Oddy has the two console set bonus, is that the Oddy has a higher inertia. Which takes some getting used to largely in timing when to shut off full impulse.
Like I said, you can use the extra inertia to your advantage by cutting full impulse at about 15 km, chopping he throttle back to 1/2 or 1/4 and skidding your broadside like a hockey player. I actually like that about the Oddy over the Sovvie.
Like I said, you can use the extra inertia to your advantage by cutting full impulse at about 15 km, chopping he throttle back to 1/2 or 1/4 and skidding your broadside like a hockey player. I actually like that about the Oddy over the Sovvie.
I enjoy that as well. Sliding is fun!
It just takes some getting used to when you've never used a ship with the same sort of inertia rating though, which I'm still in the process of doing.
What is it you mean by slow? How fast it takes to get from point a to point b? Turn rate? Inertia?
I've flown a bunch of the cruisers and the Sovereign doesn't seem slow to me at all. It's not the quickest turning cruiser. It's actual speed in getting places really just depends on the engine equipped. So I'm kind of lost here in terms of what you mean by slow.
All four, Snoggy.
I'm not making a value judgment. I fly plenty of slow ships. I love slow ships.
I'm just stating that a separated Ody/Gal is faster, and speed should not be the reason to not fly one.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Also, I didn't make this clear before. They aren't faster by miles, but they are in fact faster.
Most noticeable is raw speed and inertia. Turn... Admittedly it is hard for me to "feel" minor differences in turn, learning to fly carrier gave me too many instincts to get those big girls in position...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I just bought the C-Store Assault Cruiser, and I can now tell you difinitivly. The Assault Cruiser is slower than both the Galaxy and the Odyssey, assuming you use 1 console slot for an RCS on the Sovie and 1 slot for the Separation console on the other ships. By a country mile. It's painful.
From all the crowing Sovie pilots do about how slow Ody's and Gal's are, I was expecting something more. Slowest Fed cruiser? The Sovereign!
Sweet Christmas.
Okay, why don't you look at the stats of an RCS Console vs the stats of the Saucer/Chevron separation?
I know for a fact that Saucer gives a straight +10 Turn Rate. That means a separated Galaxy gets a base of +16 turn, without any modifiers from anything. Pretty sure Chevron gives a straight +8.
Getting a flat +Turn Rate is leaps and bounds better then getting a +% of Turn Rate from an RCS console.
Maybe you should do some math before making such a short-sighted statement about suddenly the Galaxy and Ody being leaps and bounds faster.
Somebody needs lessons in both serenity and reading comprehension.
Nobody said anything about suddenly, I said I just got the ship and just discovered the fact. I also previously stated that I had assumed that was the case I just did not use absolutist language without first having the facts. Should I have used less thorough tactics, perhaps like you just have?
And not 5 inches above your post, is mine from hours earlier stating, what was it, that the differences were not great, just there. Reading comprehension, for the win...
Edit: And my painful comment was actually just one of personal shock. I was under the impression that she moved better than she does, due to many people that hated on the slower ships saying that the Assault Cruiser was "SOOO much faster" I'm just reporting the stats. She is only faster if you do not chose the speed options on the other ships. If speed is your thing, you can't get a faster fed cruiser then a Gal-R/X. The slowest is also the fastest.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I just bought the C-Store Assault Cruiser, and I can now tell you difinitivly. The Assault Cruiser is slower than both the Galaxy and the Odyssey, assuming you use 1 console slot for an RCS on the Sovie and 1 slot for the Separation console on the other ships. By a country mile. It's painful.
From all the crowing Sovie pilots do about how slow Ody's and Gal's are, I was expecting something more. Slowest Fed cruiser? The Sovereign!
Also, I didn't make this clear before. They aren't faster by miles, but they are in fact faster.
Most noticeable is raw speed and inertia. Turn... Admittedly it is hard for me to "feel" minor differences in turn, learning to fly carrier gave me too many instincts to get those big girls in position...
So, you contradict yourself in those post, both claiming that the separated Galaxy is faster then the Sovereign "by a country mile" but then stating that "it's not faster by miles" and that you "can't feel the difference in smaller turn rates"...but you're comparing a separated ship to a non-separated? That's like comparing a HY3 Torpedo to a standard Torpedo. I notice you didn't bother to compare a Galaxy with it's Saucer to the Sovereign. I know, fair testing really shoots down your idiotic statements.
And, not speaking in absolutes? Really? Because you just did when you flat out said the slowest Fed Cruiser is the Sovereign, and that it's "difinitivly" (Reading comprehension? Use spell check once in a while, definitively) when in fact it's the Un-separated Galaxy/GX/Ody. This is a fact, a irrefutable one.
But, knowing you, you're just going to blather on about how people should use the Saucer/Chevron Separation and probably make some reference to how "mean" or "nasty" I'm being or whatever.
So, you contradict yourself in those post, both claiming that the separated Galaxy is faster then the Sovereign "by a country mile" but then stating that "it's not faster by miles" and that you "can't feel the difference in smaller turn rates"...but you're comparing a separated ship to a non-separated? That's like comparing a HY3 Torpedo to a standard Torpedo. I notice you didn't bother to compare a Galaxy with it's Saucer to the Sovereign. I know, fair testing really shoots down your idiotic statements.
And, not speaking in absolutes? Really? Because you just did when you flat out said the slowest Fed Cruiser is the Sovereign, and that it's "difinitivly" (Reading comprehension? Use spell check once in a while, definitively) when in fact it's the Un-separated Galaxy/GX/Ody. This is a fact, a irrefutable one.
But, knowing you, you're just going to blather on about how people should use the Saucer/Chevron Separation and probably make some reference to how "mean" or "nasty" I'm being or whatever.
You really need to switch to decaff...
Anyway, regardless of what one is able to feel... the numbers reported are higher. Happy enough?
Edit: And I already addressed I was flabbergast in my first post... What is your problem anyway?
And fair testing? Where are your numbers? I actually bought all 3 and bloody well checked.
I'm one of the few people around here who actually bother to post numbers when I make bold statements. If you require them at this point let me know, I didn't think I would have to prove "I got in the ship, set my engines to max, used the same gear other than changing saucer sep for a mk 12 fleet RCS, and set full throttle. The numbers went Gal/Ody/Reg" It wasn't exactly rocket science, or something that I figured would need much debate... its speed... its not hard...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
1) There has been much talk of the Fleet Dreadnought, which has the AC's BOff layout. It is a very good ship. However, there has not been much talk of the Fleet Heavy Cruiser. This is the Fleet "successor" to the Assault Cruiser in terms of utility. The layout is identical, I believe(?) it has more armor, and it even has better turn rate and handling. Note, not the Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser, which is the Excel-R, but the four-nacelled cruiser. Not to be confused with the Heavy Cruiser Refit, either, which is a decent ship from what I've seen and available from fleets, but only on par with the freebie T5 ships. That said, aside from the increased cost (can't get a c-store discount for it), most people want the Fleet AC-R in part BECAUSE of the way the stations are.
2) If you think THIS layout is bad, you should see what the ORIGINAL layout for the Fleet AC-R was going to be. It was going to be a tac-heavy beast - Cmdr. Eng, Lt. Cmdr tac, Lt. Tac, Lt. Universal, Ensign Eng.
Anyway, regardless of what one is able to feel... the numbers reported are higher. Happy enough?
Edit: And I already addressed I was flabbergast in my first post... What is your problem anyway?
And fair testing? Where are your numbers? I actually bought all 3 and bloody well checked.
I'm one of the few people around here who actually bother to post numbers when I make bold statements. If you require them at this point let me know, I didn't think I would have to prove "I got in the ship, set my engines to max, used the same gear other than changing saucer sep for a mk 12 fleet RCS, and set full throttle. The numbers went Gal/Ody/Reg" It wasn't exactly rocket science, or something that I figured would need much debate... its speed... its not hard...
Really? I haven't seen you post numbers on the subject yet. I'm the only one that's actually posted numbers.
Again, you're comparing a RCS Console to the Saucer/Chevron separation, which is like comparing an Apple to an Orange.
Why are you swapping the RCS for the Saucer Separation? Why are using the Saucer Separation in the first place? The Sovereign cannot use Saucer Separation, so why are you using it on the Galaxy? To skew your "numbers" in your personal favor?
Really? I haven't seen you post numbers on the subject yet. I'm the only one that's actually posted numbers.
Again, you're comparing a RCS Console to the Saucer/Chevron separation, which is like comparing an Apple to an Orange.
Why are you swapping the RCS for the Saucer Separation? Why are using the Saucer Separation in the first place? The Sovereign cannot use Saucer Separation, so why are you using it on the Galaxy? To skew your "numbers" in your personal favor?
/rolleyes
The RCS was to give the Sovy a chance, it would skew things it its favor... And anybody who is capable of rational thought would have figured that out buy now...
You have proven yourself to be rabid and irrational. If you would like to calm down and make logical statements I will gladly start communications again. As things are currently going, this is like I'm talking to a wall that hates me for no good reason.
Did I beat you in ISE or PvP or something?
Edit: I've given up on this fool, but for those who are following... when I get back in game I'll screenshot the numbers... for reference, so maybe this yahoo will go away...
Edit2: If you really want me to be empirically fair, instead of giving an edge to the Sovy, I could do separated ody/gal vs a sovy with a metreon gas canister... that is the more fair comparison as it is using no outside equipment. I figured that would be a less interesting experiment, so I gave the sovereign the ability to use a console that would help it, and test all 3 with the best 1 speed console available to it... Since you apparently needed it so spelled out...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The Chevron/Saucer Sep offer very large but flat turn rate bonuses (that is, they don't scale at all. The bonus from separating does not increase if you add RCS, better engines, or Impulse Thruster skill into the mix, it's added on at the end like the Cruiser Command and the set bonus), at the cost of health and shields.
The Sovereign will match the separated Galaxy-X or Odyssey if you have about a +900% turn rate bonus in either ship, where you'll have 70 turn either way and the point becomes moot as you turn like a bugship. The Avenger has it better, though, since its base 9 turn rate means that it only needs about +233% turn rate to beat a separated cruiser, which is quite easy with the Impulse Thruster skill, an engine with a high turn rate, etc.
In effect, the Separation consoles invert the paradigm between the Galaxy/Odyssey and the Sovereign: the Sovereign will have better health and armor (assuming the console sacrificed for the Separation console is a Fleet RCS [+ResAll] or Neutronium [+Turn]), while the headless giants become much quicker and nimble (but also lose some power).
So if it's a more agile cruiser you're after, and don't mind taking a hit to hull (85% of 44000 is 37400, giving the separated Fleet Galaxy lower hull than the non-Fleet Avenger), the Separation consoles are better than RCS.
Comments
Like I said, you can use the extra inertia to your advantage by cutting full impulse at about 15 km, chopping he throttle back to 1/2 or 1/4 and skidding your broadside like a hockey player. I actually like that about the Oddy over the Sovvie.
It just takes some getting used to when you've never used a ship with the same sort of inertia rating though, which I'm still in the process of doing.
All four, Snoggy.
I'm not making a value judgment. I fly plenty of slow ships. I love slow ships.
I'm just stating that a separated Ody/Gal is faster, and speed should not be the reason to not fly one.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Ahhhh, ok. Thanks for clarifying.
Also, I didn't make this clear before. They aren't faster by miles, but they are in fact faster.
Most noticeable is raw speed and inertia. Turn... Admittedly it is hard for me to "feel" minor differences in turn, learning to fly carrier gave me too many instincts to get those big girls in position...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Sweet Christmas.
Okay, why don't you look at the stats of an RCS Console vs the stats of the Saucer/Chevron separation?
I know for a fact that Saucer gives a straight +10 Turn Rate. That means a separated Galaxy gets a base of +16 turn, without any modifiers from anything. Pretty sure Chevron gives a straight +8.
Getting a flat +Turn Rate is leaps and bounds better then getting a +% of Turn Rate from an RCS console.
Maybe you should do some math before making such a short-sighted statement about suddenly the Galaxy and Ody being leaps and bounds faster.
Nobody said anything about suddenly, I said I just got the ship and just discovered the fact. I also previously stated that I had assumed that was the case I just did not use absolutist language without first having the facts. Should I have used less thorough tactics, perhaps like you just have?
And not 5 inches above your post, is mine from hours earlier stating, what was it, that the differences were not great, just there. Reading comprehension, for the win...
Edit: And my painful comment was actually just one of personal shock. I was under the impression that she moved better than she does, due to many people that hated on the slower ships saying that the Assault Cruiser was "SOOO much faster" I'm just reporting the stats. She is only faster if you do not chose the speed options on the other ships. If speed is your thing, you can't get a faster fed cruiser then a Gal-R/X. The slowest is also the fastest.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
So, you contradict yourself in those post, both claiming that the separated Galaxy is faster then the Sovereign "by a country mile" but then stating that "it's not faster by miles" and that you "can't feel the difference in smaller turn rates"...but you're comparing a separated ship to a non-separated? That's like comparing a HY3 Torpedo to a standard Torpedo. I notice you didn't bother to compare a Galaxy with it's Saucer to the Sovereign. I know, fair testing really shoots down your idiotic statements.
And, not speaking in absolutes? Really? Because you just did when you flat out said the slowest Fed Cruiser is the Sovereign, and that it's "difinitivly" (Reading comprehension? Use spell check once in a while, definitively) when in fact it's the Un-separated Galaxy/GX/Ody. This is a fact, a irrefutable one.
But, knowing you, you're just going to blather on about how people should use the Saucer/Chevron Separation and probably make some reference to how "mean" or "nasty" I'm being or whatever.
You really need to switch to decaff...
Anyway, regardless of what one is able to feel... the numbers reported are higher. Happy enough?
Edit: And I already addressed I was flabbergast in my first post... What is your problem anyway?
And fair testing? Where are your numbers? I actually bought all 3 and bloody well checked.
I'm one of the few people around here who actually bother to post numbers when I make bold statements. If you require them at this point let me know, I didn't think I would have to prove "I got in the ship, set my engines to max, used the same gear other than changing saucer sep for a mk 12 fleet RCS, and set full throttle. The numbers went Gal/Ody/Reg" It wasn't exactly rocket science, or something that I figured would need much debate... its speed... its not hard...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
1) There has been much talk of the Fleet Dreadnought, which has the AC's BOff layout. It is a very good ship. However, there has not been much talk of the Fleet Heavy Cruiser. This is the Fleet "successor" to the Assault Cruiser in terms of utility. The layout is identical, I believe(?) it has more armor, and it even has better turn rate and handling. Note, not the Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser, which is the Excel-R, but the four-nacelled cruiser. Not to be confused with the Heavy Cruiser Refit, either, which is a decent ship from what I've seen and available from fleets, but only on par with the freebie T5 ships. That said, aside from the increased cost (can't get a c-store discount for it), most people want the Fleet AC-R in part BECAUSE of the way the stations are.
2) If you think THIS layout is bad, you should see what the ORIGINAL layout for the Fleet AC-R was going to be. It was going to be a tac-heavy beast - Cmdr. Eng, Lt. Cmdr tac, Lt. Tac, Lt. Universal, Ensign Eng.
Really? I haven't seen you post numbers on the subject yet. I'm the only one that's actually posted numbers.
Again, you're comparing a RCS Console to the Saucer/Chevron separation, which is like comparing an Apple to an Orange.
Why are you swapping the RCS for the Saucer Separation? Why are using the Saucer Separation in the first place? The Sovereign cannot use Saucer Separation, so why are you using it on the Galaxy? To skew your "numbers" in your personal favor?
/rolleyes
The RCS was to give the Sovy a chance, it would skew things it its favor... And anybody who is capable of rational thought would have figured that out buy now...
You have proven yourself to be rabid and irrational. If you would like to calm down and make logical statements I will gladly start communications again. As things are currently going, this is like I'm talking to a wall that hates me for no good reason.
Did I beat you in ISE or PvP or something?
Edit: I've given up on this fool, but for those who are following... when I get back in game I'll screenshot the numbers... for reference, so maybe this yahoo will go away...
Edit2: If you really want me to be empirically fair, instead of giving an edge to the Sovy, I could do separated ody/gal vs a sovy with a metreon gas canister... that is the more fair comparison as it is using no outside equipment. I figured that would be a less interesting experiment, so I gave the sovereign the ability to use a console that would help it, and test all 3 with the best 1 speed console available to it... Since you apparently needed it so spelled out...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Galaxy (X model, R should be the same I would guess... but.. who flies an R for the stats?)
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/galnoturn_zpsdd26c006.png
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/galsep_zpsa1cb9518.png
Odyssey
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/odynoturn_zps12dc410b.png
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/odysep_zpsd7d82d99.png
Sovereign
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/sovnoturn_zps76d7b0bd.png
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/sovrcs_zpsadf1b1b8.png
Draw your own conclusions, but those numbers are significant. We aren't talking like .2 turn and .5 impulse... It's much more than that.
If I use more of the set on the Gal and Ody, I get even more turn...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The Sovereign will match the separated Galaxy-X or Odyssey if you have about a +900% turn rate bonus in either ship, where you'll have 70 turn either way and the point becomes moot as you turn like a bugship. The Avenger has it better, though, since its base 9 turn rate means that it only needs about +233% turn rate to beat a separated cruiser, which is quite easy with the Impulse Thruster skill, an engine with a high turn rate, etc.
In effect, the Separation consoles invert the paradigm between the Galaxy/Odyssey and the Sovereign: the Sovereign will have better health and armor (assuming the console sacrificed for the Separation console is a Fleet RCS [+ResAll] or Neutronium [+Turn]), while the headless giants become much quicker and nimble (but also lose some power).
So if it's a more agile cruiser you're after, and don't mind taking a hit to hull (85% of 44000 is 37400, giving the separated Fleet Galaxy lower hull than the non-Fleet Avenger), the Separation consoles are better than RCS.